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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On August 27 2011 00:49 [F_]aths wrote: I think the fungal nerf mostly addresses the infestor+broods issue versus terran as Blizzard (David Kim) once mentioned that they consider that strategy too strong.
Actually, neither David Kim nor Blizzard said infestor+BL are OP. They said some players thought so.
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like all of this changes =).
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On August 27 2011 00:10 Reborn8u wrote: Since release there has been significant nerfs to both protoss and terran's early game. For example: supply before barracks, reaper nerfs, now 5 more seconds on barracks, bunker nerfs, stim nerf. Toss has had forge build time nerf, zealot build time nerf, warp gate research nerf, pylon nerf (this does affect forge expands imo). Even some significant mid/late game nerfs, blue flame, thors, and for toss several voidray nerfs, templar energy upgrade, mothership nerf (which is now getting a buff but it's almost an irrelevant unit anyway). At the same time zerg has had a lot of buffs, roach, fungal affecting blink, completely freezing units instead of slowing, damage bonus vs armored, huge dps increase, and now they are getting an ultralisk and overseer buff.
I'm really concerned that zerg may end up with an upgrade, economy, army, and mobility advantage at every stage of the game after the 7 minute mark. Meaning Terrans + Protoss will not have the ability to do enough damage to keep zerg in check at any stage.
I don't feel the immortal and prism buff, while helpful, is going to turn protoss around in it's pathetic statistics the last few months. If I'm not mistaken protoss has had the worst statistics in tournaments and holding places in GM since the start of this year. Considering it's the most played race, that is pretty damn bad. As for terran, I think limiting the amount of powerful builds that can simply win the game in 12 minutes is good, but I'm always hesitant to agree with any nerf to a races core units or core production. I definitely think terran needs some help in the late game, seems like the weakest race after 3 bases to me.
For zerg I'd like to see fungal tuned down a bit, it fills every role right now. Zergs are going roach infestor in every matchup and doing damn good with it. I say tune down the infestor, IMO they shouldn't be born with so many abilities, some should require research (fungal,infested, and burrow move all for free) and buff hydras or corruptors. So zerg actually has to make an anti air unit to counter air units. As it is now, zergs doesn't even need them because fungal or infested terrans provide all the anti air they need as well as infestors provide detection, aoe dmg, anti-micro, anti massive unit and harass. If you removed nydus, contamination, corruption, hydras, and changelings from the game most zergs wouldn't even notice. lol.
BTW If I've forgotten anything or misrepresented any facts please feel free to correct me in a non-douche baggy manner. My memory is far from perfect.
Completely agree, man. As strange as it seems, I think Zerg is the most powerful race right now. I also agree with the Terran buffs you presented, althought I play Protoss.
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Most important Fungal change to ZvZ is Banelings surviving a fungal growth now.
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APM changes is interesting. Instead of having 120-140 average apm. I now average 70-80 apm. And I never usually ever spam apm.
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On August 27 2011 00:59 ToastieNL wrote: Most important Fungal change to ZvZ is Banelings surviving a fungal growth now. Fungal growth still kills banelings in one fungal in the PTR. Fungal does 30 damage which does not get mitigated by armor, and banelings have 30HP. Lings on the other hand survive one fungal now.
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On August 27 2011 00:33 Reborn8u wrote:Here ya go guys  (so i can contribute something other than whining lol) Pretty sexy looking IMO ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/B0Aga.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0k7Ea.png)
Oooh lovely interface change, now I don't have to browse through the various long loading screens to get to it. And another thing that people that are whining about APM. If I suddenly see my APM drop by 50 , I'll definitely start working my ass off next game I.E. trying to be EVEN faster even though the same actions were done in the game with the 'lowered' APM.
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On August 27 2011 01:19 Ramble wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 00:59 ToastieNL wrote: Most important Fungal change to ZvZ is Banelings surviving a fungal growth now. Fungal growth still kills banelings in one fungal in the PTR. Fungal does 30 damage which does not get mitigated by armor, and banelings have 30HP. Lings on the other hand survive one fungal now.
They always have silly willy.
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On August 27 2011 01:20 strength wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 01:19 Ramble wrote:On August 27 2011 00:59 ToastieNL wrote: Most important Fungal change to ZvZ is Banelings surviving a fungal growth now. Fungal growth still kills banelings in one fungal in the PTR. Fungal does 30 damage which does not get mitigated by armor, and banelings have 30HP. Lings on the other hand survive one fungal now. They always have silly willy.
They always have what?
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I don't really like the new Cancel thing. It looks kinda ugly to get a text and numbers popping up on your screen when things gets canceled. And I don't really get the purpose of it either. They want to put in another helping tool to naabs that doesn't realise they canceled their building or if they managed to salvage the bunker in time or what? -.-
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5385 Posts
On August 27 2011 01:25 TimeSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 01:20 strength wrote:On August 27 2011 01:19 Ramble wrote:On August 27 2011 00:59 ToastieNL wrote: Most important Fungal change to ZvZ is Banelings surviving a fungal growth now. Fungal growth still kills banelings in one fungal in the PTR. Fungal does 30 damage which does not get mitigated by armor, and banelings have 30HP. Lings on the other hand survive one fungal now. They always have silly willy. They always have what? They always have, you silly willy!
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On August 27 2011 01:29 Termit wrote: I don't really like the new Cancel thing. It looks kinda ugly to get a text and numbers popping up on your screen when things gets canceled. And I don't really get the purpose of it either. They want to put in another helping tool to naabs that doesn't realise they canceled their building or if they managed to salvage the bunker in time or what? -.- It's more likely for viewing purposes in tournaments, so they don't have to guess if it was cancel or it got destroyed.
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On August 27 2011 01:32 Vardant wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 01:29 Termit wrote: I don't really like the new Cancel thing. It looks kinda ugly to get a text and numbers popping up on your screen when things gets canceled. And I don't really get the purpose of it either. They want to put in another helping tool to naabs that doesn't realise they canceled their building or if they managed to salvage the bunker in time or what? -.- It's more likely for viewing purposes in tournaments, so they don't have to guess if it was cancel or it got destroyed. Is it to much to check at the minerals? ;o
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I like the fungal change especially for ZvZ, I realize that it's not a big change but it might open up for more muta and hydra play instead of mass roach with infestors every match as the damage vs roaches will still be pretty much the same, but hydras and mutas will get around more easily.
that blue flame is getting nerfed is good in my opinion but maybe it got nerfed a bit too much? only time will tell I guess
This patch sounds amazing overall, I'm especially looking forward to see more motherships, ultralisks and seeker missiles 
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On August 27 2011 01:34 Termit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 01:32 Vardant wrote:On August 27 2011 01:29 Termit wrote: I don't really like the new Cancel thing. It looks kinda ugly to get a text and numbers popping up on your screen when things gets canceled. And I don't really get the purpose of it either. They want to put in another helping tool to naabs that doesn't realise they canceled their building or if they managed to salvage the bunker in time or what? -.- It's more likely for viewing purposes in tournaments, so they don't have to guess if it was cancel or it got destroyed. Is it to much to check at the minerals? ;o
Just watch almost any tournament and you'll see, that it is, especially for the casters.
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On August 27 2011 01:29 pheer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 01:25 TimeSpiral wrote:On August 27 2011 01:20 strength wrote:On August 27 2011 01:19 Ramble wrote:On August 27 2011 00:59 ToastieNL wrote: Most important Fungal change to ZvZ is Banelings surviving a fungal growth now. Fungal growth still kills banelings in one fungal in the PTR. Fungal does 30 damage which does not get mitigated by armor, and banelings have 30HP. Lings on the other hand survive one fungal now. They always have silly willy. They always have what? They always have, you silly willy!
Ha. Gettin' trolled!
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Just to get the facts straight on the BFH vs workers with the PTR patch:
BFH damage(vs light): raw: 19 Kills workers in 3 shots
+1: 21 Kills probes and drones in 2 shots, even vs +1 armor (except sometimes vs drones if you don't hit twice at the same time (because of regen)), but not +2 armor. SCVs take 3 shots.
+2: 23 Kills probes and drones in 2 shots, even vs +3 armor (except sometimes vs drones, as above). SCVs take 2 shots, but 3 shots vs +1 armor.
+3: 25 Kills probes and drones in 2 shots, even vs +3 armor. SCVs take 2 shots, but 3 shots vs +3 armor.
I think I like this change, at least in theory. It adds some extra depth to the game. For example:
TvT - Mech vs Mech, as soon as you have 2/0 mech and blue-flame you can 2-shot SCVs. So timing those two upgrades makes for a possibly good timing. Maybe +1 armor for bio in mech builds will be something to consider to stop that? Probably not.
-Mech vs Bio, getting 2/0 mech and BFH before the opponent gets 1/1 bio isn't very reasonable, but maybe 3/0 mech before 3/3 bio might be That seems like a very limited timing though. Overall bio vs mech seems a lot more viable now, especially since marines will also take 3 hits to kill with BFH in most reasonable scenarios.
TvZ and TvP - Mid- and late-game those BFH will still roast your workers. You better get +2 armor fast if you want to be safe for a while longer.
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Oh, and banelings don't get killed by one fungal (on the PTR). Unless it also stops regeneration.
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On August 27 2011 00:58 IronBreaker wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 00:10 Reborn8u wrote: Since release there has been significant nerfs to both protoss and terran's early game. For example: supply before barracks, reaper nerfs, now 5 more seconds on barracks, bunker nerfs, stim nerf. Toss has had forge build time nerf, zealot build time nerf, warp gate research nerf, pylon nerf (this does affect forge expands imo). Even some significant mid/late game nerfs, blue flame, thors, and for toss several voidray nerfs, templar energy upgrade, mothership nerf (which is now getting a buff but it's almost an irrelevant unit anyway). At the same time zerg has had a lot of buffs, roach, fungal affecting blink, completely freezing units instead of slowing, damage bonus vs armored, huge dps increase, and now they are getting an ultralisk and overseer buff.
I'm really concerned that zerg may end up with an upgrade, economy, army, and mobility advantage at every stage of the game after the 7 minute mark. Meaning Terrans + Protoss will not have the ability to do enough damage to keep zerg in check at any stage.
I don't feel the immortal and prism buff, while helpful, is going to turn protoss around in it's pathetic statistics the last few months. If I'm not mistaken protoss has had the worst statistics in tournaments and holding places in GM since the start of this year. Considering it's the most played race, that is pretty damn bad. As for terran, I think limiting the amount of powerful builds that can simply win the game in 12 minutes is good, but I'm always hesitant to agree with any nerf to a races core units or core production. I definitely think terran needs some help in the late game, seems like the weakest race after 3 bases to me.
For zerg I'd like to see fungal tuned down a bit, it fills every role right now. Zergs are going roach infestor in every matchup and doing damn good with it. I say tune down the infestor, IMO they shouldn't be born with so many abilities, some should require research (fungal,infested, and burrow move all for free) and buff hydras or corruptors. So zerg actually has to make an anti air unit to counter air units. As it is now, zergs doesn't even need them because fungal or infested terrans provide all the anti air they need as well as infestors provide detection, aoe dmg, anti-micro, anti massive unit and harass. If you removed nydus, contamination, corruption, hydras, and changelings from the game most zergs wouldn't even notice. lol.
BTW If I've forgotten anything or misrepresented any facts please feel free to correct me in a non-douche baggy manner. My memory is far from perfect. Completely agree, man. As strange as it seems, I think Zerg is the most powerful race right now. I also agree with the Terran buffs you presented, althought I play Protoss. I agree as well. Definitely late game it's the case once economy gets cooking. Terran and Toss usually get their wins within first 10-15 min after that it's unlikely and about to get more unlikely the way they will get ultras out on a tech switch..
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I wish they would remove the stun from Fungal, most the qqing about it is because of chain fungaling..
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