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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On August 26 2011 03:36 kofman wrote:
This patch is a bunch of bullshit. I could live with the hellion nerf because it might bring back marine/tank in TvT instead of mech, but the 5 second delay on barracks production? Really? Its totally uncalled for and sets back EVERYTHING terran does in the whole game by a couple of seconds. It means getting your orbital a couple of seconds later, mules later, scv's later, marines later, EVERTHING later. This building time increase will change all of the Terran timings. Its just a stupid patch, blizzard need to think about what they are doing before they implemet it.
In one week you aren't going to care at all.
They've waited 5 months for a major patch, they've probably thought about it.
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I find it funny that some Terran players apparently think Blizzard doesn't know that it'll fuck up all your timings. That's probably the point!
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Idea: What if blink neutralized fungal, but blinking while fungaled did not move the stalker. Meaning that if your stalkers are fungaled, you can blow a blink cooldown to clear the fungal, but they can only walk until blink is ready again.
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On August 26 2011 03:36 kofman wrote:
This patch is a bunch of bullshit. I could live with the hellion nerf because it might bring back marine/tank in TvT instead of mech, but the 5 second delay on barracks production? Really? Its totally uncalled for and sets back EVERYTHING terran does in the whole game by a couple of seconds. It means getting your orbital a couple of seconds later, mules later, scv's later, marines later, EVERTHING later. This building time increase will change all of the Terran timings. Its just a stupid patch, blizzard need to think about what they are doing before they implemet it.
So when they increased warpgate research by 20 seconds, did the world end? I mean, I need to spent a extra chrono boost to get it out for my pre-nerf timings. That slows down probes, supply, upgrades, everything. That critical burst of units that allows protoss to hold off most pushes.
I love how terran players think they are the only ones with really tight timings.
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On August 26 2011 03:32 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 03:21 fantasysan wrote:
Stupid patch for all Terrans..
why the +5 on Rax? and why not making the helion 30% less dmg vs worker instead of nerfing the whole dmg, now lings kill them easy.
Nobody uses ravens anyways
and imba protoss gets buffed over and over, i rly hope this isnt going live. Classic Terran: "Why did they nerf me? I'm only winning 60% of my games. Also my english is really questionable, but this patch is BS. Blue flame Hellions were just right and I need my 2 rax opening vs zerg." at the same time: Protoss: "Blink stalker nerf. Sigh I guess so, they were kinda messed up vs zerg in the mid game. But tell me about this buff to the immortal and WP. I would LOVE to mix those into my play."
When you are getting blink you literally have more chrono than you know what to do with so it really doesn't change a thing. And I dont think its the fact you get blink, its the amount of stalkers vs what they can have up. 40 in game seconds reduced by chrono will not change much. 2 raxx punishes zerg being greedy and can be held off. Immortal buff I guess is fine, probably will help in every situation although I don't really think blizzard understand immortals in the first place as Protoss will make colossus to counter mass roach when that is what the immortal is for. Warp prism is already useful, just protoss are too terrified of losing it they need it to be next to risk free for them to actually think about doing it instead of sitting back on 3-4 base and deathball walking over people.
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On August 26 2011 03:31 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 03:30 moregamethanSEGA wrote:
imagine 6 lings walking into your base when your rax is delayed even further. this is going to mess up 2v2 - 4v4 pretty badly man. i know thats not the goal of the patches but seriously... this just screams cheese for my sorry, terran, no-walled-off, ass because the ramp is too wide in every multiplayer map. how bout you make zerglings take 5 sec longer to build - then i will shut up. Did you know protosses said this exact same thing when blizzard nerfed zealot build time? Guess what protoss can hold it just fine, so will you (you'll have a wall done before the lings arrive there most times anyway).
Do you know what delaying barracks build time does? It delays the orbital, delaying mules and scvs, delaying minerals, and delaying more buildings and units. It will completely change terran timings, and hurt terran economy.
a 5 second delay might not seem like much, but in fact, it changes EVERTHING that terran does.
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On August 26 2011 02:57 hli wrote:
Unbelievable. Double proxy gate in base will now rape terran. Even if they do the single proxy gate into stalkers cheese, it'll be so damn strong. Do not understand the barracks increased build time.
I could live with hellion nerf, just can't believe how easy it is to get something nerfed. SlayerS uses their little build like twice, and all zergs go nuts, and now we have a nerfed unit. I don't even remember the last time I saw the slayers timing push work...
And now, not only will infestors still kill marines and workers in 2 fungals as well as keeping the root ability, they now deal 10 more damage to tanks with each fungal. Soounndddsss fair.
Overall glad they changed toss though.
It's stuff like this people....it's why Blizzard has so much trouble with distinguishing real problems from people literally whining about ANYTHING they change.
Double proxy gates in your base are not edge of a knife timings. Pretty simple really....you scout it, you drop a rax + bunker + micro at a decent level, you win. Don't scout it, you probably lose. The extra 5 seconds means almost nothing vs proxy 2 gate. It just comes down to scouting.
Your "SlayerS uses it twice" is 100% not true. I don't think I've seen anything else from terrans vs zerg in about a month now. And BFH drops have always been far too effective for their cost. They STILL are imo. A single drop costing 400 minerals and about 10 APM should not have the ability to wipe out every single worker in your mineral line in 10 seconds....and still completely rape any mineral only unit that tries to stop it(don't say queens.....they take about 20 seconds per hellion). I would be far happier if hellions got a rather significant damage buff in exchange for either being more glass cannon-ny or just costing a heck of a lot more, plus occupying another slot in a medivac, so there can only be two per medivac.
On August 26 2011 03:40 kofman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 03:31 blade55555 wrote:On August 26 2011 03:30 moregamethanSEGA wrote:
imagine 6 lings walking into your base when your rax is delayed even further. this is going to mess up 2v2 - 4v4 pretty badly man. i know thats not the goal of the patches but seriously... this just screams cheese for my sorry, terran, no-walled-off, ass because the ramp is too wide in every multiplayer map. how bout you make zerglings take 5 sec longer to build - then i will shut up. Did you know protosses said this exact same thing when blizzard nerfed zealot build time? Guess what protoss can hold it just fine, so will you (you'll have a wall done before the lings arrive there most times anyway). Do you know what delaying barracks build time does? It delays the orbital, delaying mules and scvs, delaying minerals, and delaying more buildings and units. It will completely change terran timings, and hurt terran economy. a 5 second delay might not seem like much, but in fact, it changes EVERTHING that terran does.
Yes it does..............by 5 seconds. The terran world is not ending. They still have the most effective early game harass and most effective and hard to scout all-ins in the game. Your 1/1/1, 2 rax, 2 pot banshee 1 base ins will be just fine...they'll just be a little easier to scout for.
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how is this patch fair on any terrans apart from pro korean level ones? believe it or not, that's not actually the majority of people playing this race yet that's all blizzard cares about.
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On August 26 2011 03:36 kofman wrote:
This patch is a bunch of bullshit. I could live with the hellion nerf because it might bring back marine/tank in TvT instead of mech, but the 5 second delay on barracks production? Really? Its totally uncalled for and sets back EVERYTHING terran does in the whole game by a couple of seconds. It means getting your orbital a couple of seconds later, mules later, scv's later, marines later, EVERTHING later. This building time increase will change all of the Terran timings. Its just a stupid patch, blizzard need to think about what they are doing before they implemet it.
It's funny, because after reading this patch, I was thinking of switching to terran >_>
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Dont like warp prism change nor barracks. What are the reason? :S Warp prism is now basically stronger than a drop ship with more abilities?
Otherwise looks kinda cool
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On August 26 2011 03:36 kofman wrote:
This patch is a bunch of bullshit. I could live with the hellion nerf because it might bring back marine/tank in TvT instead of mech, but the 5 second delay on barracks production? Really? Its totally uncalled for and sets back EVERYTHING terran does in the whole game by a couple of seconds. It means getting your orbital a couple of seconds later, mules later, scv's later, marines later, EVERTHING later. This building time increase will change all of the Terran timings. Its just a stupid patch, blizzard need to think about what they are doing before they implemet it.
Us protoss players have had to deal with warpgate research times increased and gateway build time increases that were FAR more significant than 5 seconds. You will manage, dont worry. 5 seconds is practically nothing.
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On August 26 2011 03:40 Trealador wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 03:32 Plansix wrote:On August 26 2011 03:21 fantasysan wrote:
Stupid patch for all Terrans..
why the +5 on Rax? and why not making the helion 30% less dmg vs worker instead of nerfing the whole dmg, now lings kill them easy.
Nobody uses ravens anyways
and imba protoss gets buffed over and over, i rly hope this isnt going live. Classic Terran: "Why did they nerf me? I'm only winning 60% of my games. Also my english is really questionable, but this patch is BS. Blue flame Hellions were just right and I need my 2 rax opening vs zerg." at the same time: Protoss: "Blink stalker nerf. Sigh I guess so, they were kinda messed up vs zerg in the mid game. But tell me about this buff to the immortal and WP. I would LOVE to mix those into my play." When you are getting blink you literally have more chrono than you know what to do with so it really doesn't change a thing. And I dont think its the fact you get blink, its the amount of stalkers vs what they can have up. 40 in game seconds reduced by chrono will not change much. 2 raxx punishes zerg being greedy and can be held off. Immortal buff I guess is fine, probably will help in every situation although I don't really think blizzard understand immortals in the first place as Protoss will make colossus to counter mass roach when that is what the immortal is for. Warp prism is already useful, just protoss are too terrified of losing it they need it to be next to risk free for them to actually think about doing it instead of sitting back on 3-4 base and deathball walking over people.
Um, even if there's chronoboost it still takes longer and the blink timings in PvP are extremely tight versus robo openers. Immortals are used often in PvP so the buff is huge, they help hold off early roach all-ins while waiting for your robo bay to build and certain MMM pushes, as well as being a large part of defense against a tank-oriented 1-1-1. The rest of your post is just bias and not really worth discussing, typical "I get beat by 4 base deathball in diamond league" whine.
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United States7166 Posts
On August 26 2011 03:42 rmAmnesiac wrote:
how is this patch fair on any terrans apart from pro korean level ones? believe it or not, that's not actually the majority of people playing this race yet that's all blizzard cares about.
you are mistaken, Blizzard has shown time and time again that they care a lot about the majority of the population of players when it comes to balance. even changing things for team games as well, such as the old reaper nerf
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On August 26 2011 03:42 rmAmnesiac wrote:
how is this patch fair on any terrans apart from pro korean level ones? believe it or not, that's not actually the majority of people playing this race yet that's all blizzard cares about.
Balance only matters at the highest level. At lower levels, the mechanical deficiencies, plus the matchmaking system, make balance largely irrelevant.
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On August 26 2011 03:39 Yaotzin wrote:
I find it funny that some Terran players apparently think Blizzard doesn't know that it'll fuck up all your timings. That's probably the point!
It creates a 5 second period where nothing is happening...
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Awesome patch! I think this will slow down bunker rushes in TvZ
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Did Blizzard explain why they made each of this changes somewhere? I'm really curious.
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On August 26 2011 03:45 Zelniq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 03:42 rmAmnesiac wrote:
how is this patch fair on any terrans apart from pro korean level ones? believe it or not, that's not actually the majority of people playing this race yet that's all blizzard cares about. you are mistaken, Blizzard has shown time and time again that they care a lot about the majority of the population of players when it comes to balance. even changing things for team games as well, such as the old reaper nerf
Exactly, why do you think blizzard has been so dedicated to keeping the carrier unusable at medium or high levels at all? It's because just buffing it would make it too strong in bronze & silver league.
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On August 26 2011 03:40 Trealador wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 03:32 Plansix wrote:On August 26 2011 03:21 fantasysan wrote:
Stupid patch for all Terrans..
why the +5 on Rax? and why not making the helion 30% less dmg vs worker instead of nerfing the whole dmg, now lings kill them easy.
Nobody uses ravens anyways
and imba protoss gets buffed over and over, i rly hope this isnt going live. Classic Terran: "Why did they nerf me? I'm only winning 60% of my games. Also my english is really questionable, but this patch is BS. Blue flame Hellions were just right and I need my 2 rax opening vs zerg." at the same time: Protoss: "Blink stalker nerf. Sigh I guess so, they were kinda messed up vs zerg in the mid game. But tell me about this buff to the immortal and WP. I would LOVE to mix those into my play." When you are getting blink you literally have more chrono than you know what to do with so it really doesn't change a thing. And I dont think its the fact you get blink, its the amount of stalkers vs what they can have up. 40 in game seconds reduced by chrono will not change much. 2 raxx punishes zerg being greedy and can be held off. Immortal buff I guess is fine, probably will help in every situation although I don't really think blizzard understand immortals in the first place as Protoss will make colossus to counter mass roach when that is what the immortal is for. Warp prism is already useful, just protoss are too terrified of losing it they need it to be next to risk free for them to actually think about doing it instead of sitting back on 3-4 base and deathball walking over people.
Well, at the risk of sounding like a terran player, you would understand if you played protoss. If you are doing a blink timing off 2 bases vs zerg, you use all your chrono boost getting out probes, upgrades and finally units for the big timing. A delay of 20 seconds(if you chrono out blink) is the difference between them having no infestors and having 3 infestors.
I always throught 2 rax was really powerful and seemed like way better version of a cannon rush. I can understand why they are nerfing it. Early terran aggresssion is something that has always something that needed tweeking(reaper, stim, proxy rax).
Once again, why do terrans think they are only one with tight timings?
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On August 26 2011 03:45 Zelniq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 03:42 rmAmnesiac wrote:
how is this patch fair on any terrans apart from pro korean level ones? believe it or not, that's not actually the majority of people playing this race yet that's all blizzard cares about. you are mistaken, Blizzard has shown time and time again that they care a lot about the majority of the population of players when it comes to balance. even changing things for team games as well, such as the old reaper nerf
so where is the evidence suggesting terran is overperformign at levels other than that then? i know from checking sc2rank quite often for some time that terran has been almost indefinitely underepresented at masters since christmas. this is why they deserve such massive nerfs?
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EPT
