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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On August 26 2011 03:14 evilduky666 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 10:18 PanN wrote:
Contaminate cost is just a bad change imo, its underused, but maybe the overseer cost reduction will see more overall contaminates? I thought this was weird too, but then I thought about it and I think it has to do with the cost of the overseer being reduced. They probably discovered some contaminate abuse while testing overseers with the new low cost.
I think it has to do with WG research. 2 overseers can contaminate WG about 4 times before it finishes with the old energy cost, which could be really annoying if overseers were this cheap.
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imagine 6 lings walking into your base when your rax is delayed even further. this is going to mess up 2v2 - 4v4 pretty badly man. i know thats not the goal of the patches but seriously... this just screams cheese for my sorry, terran, no-walled-off, ass because the ramp is too wide in every multiplayer map. how bout you make zerglings take 5 sec longer to build - then i will shut up.
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On August 26 2011 03:27 CowMoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 03:14 evilduky666 wrote:On August 25 2011 10:18 PanN wrote:
Contaminate cost is just a bad change imo, its underused, but maybe the overseer cost reduction will see more overall contaminates? I thought this was weird too, but then I thought about it and I think it has to do with the cost of the overseer being reduced. They probably discovered some contaminate abuse while testing overseers with the new low cost. I think it has to do with WG research. 2 overseers can contaminate WG about 4 times before it finishes with the old energy cost, which could be really annoying if overseers were this cheap.
It's probably more about ZvZ, People used to permanantly contaminate hatcheries so you couldn't spawn larvae, and you could potentially get twice as many overseers now which meant ZvZ midgame might have turned into a who can get more overseers and stall production.
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On August 26 2011 03:27 Emojanne wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 17:21 _Search_ wrote:On August 25 2011 17:18 Elefanto wrote:
It's hilarious how people complain about the Warpprism getting buffed, because they fear that protoss will be able to harass and they have to pay attention on the minimap and start multitasking.
When Terran drops we drop 360-500 hp worth of units. When Protoss drops they drop 600 hp worth of units and immediately warp in more. This Warp Prism buff is far too good. With terran, your units are healed ..
I wish individual units were not so often compared. I really don't want to see this game turn into Supreme Commander, where your race only determines some attributes of what are essentially the same unit.
I thought the Warp Prism already had enough cool stuff that it didn't need to be stronger. Mobile pylon... and dropship.
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On August 26 2011 03:11 Ozrak wrote:
A big issue with Terran is the EMP spell. A good change might be to buff the damage to 150 shields and energy drained (up from 100), but make it that it goes through over the course of 4 seconds, like storm does. That way the Protoss has the *option* to move out of the way, kinda what Terran does, and if not they get punished by it.
Yeah indeed, it should be nerfed, + Show Spoiler +so next IEM 4 instead of 3 protoss players make it to the top 4
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On August 26 2011 03:30 moregamethanSEGA wrote:
imagine 6 lings walking into your base when your rax is delayed even further. this is going to mess up 2v2 - 4v4 pretty badly man. i know thats not the goal of the patches but seriously... this just screams cheese for my sorry, terran, no-walled-off, ass because the ramp is too wide in every multiplayer map. how bout you make zerglings take 5 sec longer to build - then i will shut up.
Did you know protosses said this exact same thing when blizzard nerfed zealot build time? Guess what protoss can hold it just fine, so will you (you'll have a wall done before the lings arrive there most times anyway).
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On August 26 2011 03:26 moregamethanSEGA wrote:that shouldnt matter in the least, furthermore what he's saying is true: ravens still arent viable. +5 rax does matter (a lot). protoss did get heavily buffed. so... what is your point?
People use ravens at the highest level. Taeja just won a TvT in GSTL with clutch usage of 2 ravens.
+5 rax doesn't matter a lot, and even if it did it would be justified.
Protoss got buffed because they're the weakest race and are getting annihilated in GSL.
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On August 26 2011 03:08 ensign_lee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 17:21 _Search_ wrote:On August 25 2011 17:18 Elefanto wrote:
It's hilarious how people complain about the Warpprism getting buffed, because they fear that protoss will be able to harass and they have to pay attention on the minimap and start multitasking.
When Terran drops we drop 360-500 hp worth of units. When Protoss drops they drop 600 hp worth of units and immediately warp in more. This Warp Prism buff is far too good. With terran, you get far more dps (and ranged dps even!). You also spent less on your units. And your units are probably going to get out of there alive, unlike protoss drops.
not to mention terran units are being constantly healed by the medivac = more overall hp
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HSM buff was much needed. Opens up a few tactics for them like bombing mineral lines, EMP+HSM (tvp), useful AA defense, etc.
I've honestly never really seen it used...
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On August 26 2011 03:27 CowMoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 03:14 evilduky666 wrote:On August 25 2011 10:18 PanN wrote:
Contaminate cost is just a bad change imo, its underused, but maybe the overseer cost reduction will see more overall contaminates? I thought this was weird too, but then I thought about it and I think it has to do with the cost of the overseer being reduced. They probably discovered some contaminate abuse while testing overseers with the new low cost. I think it has to do with WG research. 2 overseers can contaminate WG about 4 times before it finishes with the old energy cost, which could be really annoying if overseers were this cheap.
imo it's just that they reduce the gas cost of overseers per 2, and increase the cost of contaminate by a bit less than 2.
You get a bit more contaminates for the same game cost and a bit more mineral. if you think about it, the mineral cost being not that relevant since it's not usually the ressource you starve for, all in all it could be considered a slight buff :>
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Actually very good changes proposed by blizz.
Both infestors and BFH are a bit too good and they deserve a nerf. I lold at the terran qq about 5 sec more on barracks. The thing it will affect the most is CHEESE (11/11 rax anyone?) and they were way too effective compared to skill needed. I would only question the range buff for immortal since i think its already a very good and often used unit, but we shall see.
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On August 26 2011 03:21 fantasysan wrote:
Stupid patch for all Terrans..
why the +5 on Rax? and why not making the helion 30% less dmg vs worker instead of nerfing the whole dmg, now lings kill them easy.
Nobody uses ravens anyways
and imba protoss gets buffed over and over, i rly hope this isnt going live.
Classic Terran: "Why did they nerf me? I'm only winning 60% of my games. Also my english is really questionable, but this patch is BS. Blue flame Hellions were just right and I need my 2 rax opening vs zerg."
at the same time:
Protoss: "Blink stalker nerf. Sigh I guess so, they were kinda messed up vs zerg in the mid game. But tell me about this buff to the immortal and WP. I would LOVE to mix those into my play."
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With terran, your units are healed ..
LOL yeah, IF you're dropping bio...
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On August 26 2011 03:30 moregamethanSEGA wrote:
imagine 6 lings walking into your base when your rax is delayed even further. this is going to mess up 2v2 - 4v4 pretty badly man. i know thats not the goal of the patches but seriously... this just screams cheese for my sorry, terran, no-walled-off, ass because the ramp is too wide in every multiplayer map. how bout you make zerglings take 5 sec longer to build - then i will shut up.
Sim city around your base, engage 6 pool with your workers and do some basic micro. It's what I always do in 2v2, no idea why people do walloffs in the beginning. Making zerglings take 5 seconds to build would destroy every single timing for zerg.
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On August 26 2011 03:31 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 03:26 moregamethanSEGA wrote:just out of curiosity i what league do u play? if u play... that shouldnt matter in the least, furthermore what he's saying is true: ravens still arent viable. +5 rax does matter (a lot). protoss did get heavily buffed. so... what is your point? People use ravens at the highest level. Taeja just won a TvT in GSTL with clutch usage of 2 ravens. +5 rax doesn't matter a lot, and even if it did it would be justified. Protoss got buffed because they're the weakest race and are getting annihilated in GSL.
They are never ever the weakest race.
Just look at the recent tourneys, protoss is always first or at least second.
Terrans only look good when a korean is playing them.
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Overseer
Morph cost decreased from 50/100 to 50/50.
Contaminate energy cost increased from 75 to 125.
well i guess if you make 2 overseers at the old cost you can divide 125 / 2 = 62.5 energy per contaminate basically 8 overseers instead of 3-4 in zvz
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On August 26 2011 03:33 fantasysan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 03:31 Yaotzin wrote:On August 26 2011 03:26 moregamethanSEGA wrote:just out of curiosity i what league do u play? if u play... that shouldnt matter in the least, furthermore what he's saying is true: ravens still arent viable. +5 rax does matter (a lot). protoss did get heavily buffed. so... what is your point? People use ravens at the highest level. Taeja just won a TvT in GSTL with clutch usage of 2 ravens. +5 rax doesn't matter a lot, and even if it did it would be justified. Protoss got buffed because they're the weakest race and are getting annihilated in GSL. They are never ever the weakest race. Just look at the recent tourneys, protoss is always first or at least second. Terrans only look good when a korean is playing them.
They are the weakest race in tournaments (where it matters) according to the data.
Protoss is good outside of Korea. This is because foreigners suck, as proven every time Koreans wipe the floor with them.
Terrans look good in Korean hands because Koreans are much, much better than foreigners.
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On August 26 2011 03:33 fantasysan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 03:31 Yaotzin wrote:On August 26 2011 03:26 moregamethanSEGA wrote:just out of curiosity i what league do u play? if u play... that shouldnt matter in the least, furthermore what he's saying is true: ravens still arent viable. +5 rax does matter (a lot). protoss did get heavily buffed. so... what is your point? People use ravens at the highest level. Taeja just won a TvT in GSTL with clutch usage of 2 ravens. +5 rax doesn't matter a lot, and even if it did it would be justified. Protoss got buffed because they're the weakest race and are getting annihilated in GSL. They are never ever the weakest race. Just look at the recent tourneys, protoss is always first or at least second. Terrans only look good when a korean is playing them.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=252090
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This patch is a bunch of bullshit. I could live with the hellion nerf because it might bring back marine/tank in TvT instead of mech, but the 5 second delay on barracks production? Really? Its totally uncalled for and sets back EVERYTHING terran does in the whole game by a couple of seconds. It means getting your orbital a couple of seconds later, mules later, scv's later, marines later, EVERTHING later. This building time increase will change all of the Terran timings. Its just a stupid patch, blizzard need to think about what they are doing before they implemet it.
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I havent played in about a month, but im looking forward to this patch from a spectator point of view. Wish they would take effect before MLG though  .
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EPT
