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Basically can't be beat unless you go early roach warren which most ppl dont bother with vs terran (even if you scout the factory)
Essentially the hellions (plus a handful of initial marines that are gonna die anyway) constantly harass your expo and kite your lings while running back to the tanks.. even with great high APM defense you'll just be throwing away lings to slow down his hellions or trying to take out the tanks.. and if you hold back to mass up, you're going to lose your expo to the stream of reinforcements coming from his base.
pretty deadly, all you terrancraft players should try this, insta win vs the standard zerg FE + speedling/spine/queen defense
oh this isn't a [H] or anything cause i've given up on zerg and SC2 in general, gl hf
User was warned for this post
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Very much doubt it's unstoppable.. and replays please. You don't say what time the push comes but you say only a handful of marines so maybe a muta rush would work
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This sounds as if you have just been beaten badly and are still angry right now. No offence.
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So no replay, a huge QQ post about a push that comes fairly late and that can easily stopped by going mutas or using roaches but you refuse to use them. Great post.
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Yea terran is pretty deadly early on. So many games that you get surprised by something like "oh shit.....gg"
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ummm can you atleast tell us what the build was? all your saying is that hellions and siege tanks are hard to stop with lings
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"Basically can't be beat unless you go early roach warren" then maybe get roach warren, also every tvz i played zerg gets a roach warren when he scouts factory because he knows hellions are coming.
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im high ml league.
I think 1 base siege tank / hellions is about 9 minute timing, with 3 tanks. (I dont use such strategies so i dont know exactly)
I think he will have 3 tanks and 8 helions +-300 minerals (marines, another 3 helions, etc). Please post replay if im wrong.
but at 9 minute what zerg should have:
1)2-3 queens
2)2 crawlers or 1 crawler + several roaches
3)about 30 drones
4)About 2 tank shot range creep spread.
5)About 10-18 larvas and infestors or mutalisks building OR roaches + banelings buildings (depends on zerg style)
So, terran comes on your spreaded creep.
Because he is all-inning he cant just stay, he should attack.
And...He moves into the creep.
You just make 30 lings, take 3 queens, 2 crawlers and all drones from your expo, and surround and kill it. It is easy on creep. And of course it depends of map
gg
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Also if it is a one base terran then the push either has few hellion or few tanks so maybe mass lings would not do that bad.
If he opened BFH and did some drone kills then you're already behind so no use in complaining about the tank/marine follow up and by the time he gets there with the tank/marine you should have mutas out or about to pop and that plus lings should clean it up and still keep you in the lead for mid game but again you have to post relays to see the exact problem otherwise is just a QQ thread.
I'm having trouble with turtle toss that cannon everything up then mass void ray but I don't QQ about it instead I'm trying to scout faster now and constantly so I can hit them before the critical void ray mass up.
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why did you even bother? -_-
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nothing is unbeatable, post a replay if you actually get to caring about sc2 again, and please don't post race imbalance whine in the strategy forum.
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On August 21 2011 22:28 Harpoon_5 wrote:
Basically can't be beat unless you go early roach warren which most ppl dont bother with vs terran (even if you scout the factory)
Just my train of thought; I also think the twelve reaper rush is quite unstoppable if you dont build roaches!
/sarcasm
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nvm i'm not going to bother.
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As a new rule I always go for early roach against t now. Sincle MLG Anaheim i've been burned too many times by bfh, literally. Use the roaches to defend the expo, add in a couple spine crawlers to help keep it at bay while you go either more roach or speedlings depending on their units.
Kind of related, when do other zergs scout this and how? I'm still having a hard time figuring it out. It's too early for ol speed yet and the wall keeps out other scouts. Is there a prefered angle to send in a slow ol or is there other clues other than only one rax at the front to clue me in.
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On August 21 2011 23:16 bigbadgreen wrote:
As a new rule I always go for early roach against t now. Sincle MLG Anaheim i've been burned too many times by bfh, literally. Use the roaches to defend the expo, add in a couple spine crawlers to help keep it at bay while you go either more roach or speedlings depending on their units.
Kind of related, when do other zergs scout this and how? I'm still having a hard time figuring it out. It's too early for ol speed yet and the wall keeps out other scouts. Is there a prefered angle to send in a slow ol or is there other clues other than only one rax at the front to clue me in.
Usually, I've seen zerg players send in a suicide overlord at around the 6 minutes mark. However, if you scout absolutely nothing (the marines kill the overlord before, which immediately tells me that the terran has something to hide), I send a ling in to check out the front. If there's no expo, it probably means he's doing some sort of factory or starport build and I prepare accordingly. Usually, when I see no expo until the 6 minute mark I throw down a couple of extra spines. I find spine crawlers very efficient, they are able to lift and drop somewhere at your other expos, preventing drops so it doesn't hurt to make a few more of them.
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On August 21 2011 22:28 Harpoon_5 wrote:
Basically can't be beat unless you go early roach warren
Most zergs that don't have professional level Zergling micro have realized that roaches shut down most of the early game pushes and harassment that a Terran can do and are already doing so.
Part of an RTS is scouting and reacting. If you see the factory and suspect mech, and don't build the counter to mech, I really don't know what to say.
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On August 21 2011 23:31 ArcticFox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 22:28 Harpoon_5 wrote:
Basically can't be beat unless you go early roach warren Most zergs that don't have professional level Zergling micro have realized that roaches shut down most of the early game pushes and harassment that a Terran can do and are already doing so.
Part of an RTS is scouting and reacting. If you see the factory and suspect mech, and don't build the counter to mech, I really don't know what to say.
i do, hes bad-_-
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mutas hard counter both, last I checked siege tanks and hellions can't shoot air....
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Absolutely Agree. Please close this thread.
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Ok guys lets think about basic mechanics.
What can hellions and tanks not do? Shoot upwards!
Ok so class, what can shoot downwards and is airborne? Mutas!
Have a think.
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Terrible OP. Any decent Zerg will crush this with or without Roaches.
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one base tank hellion push in t vs z is unstopabble? rofl. get a grip, and learn to play.
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I doubt you are high enough skill level to be trusted when you say this is unstoppable.
pretty deadly, all you terrancraft players should try this, insta win vs the standard zerg FE + speedling/spine/queen defense
This just shows your lack of game sense. Zerg can't build order loss like the other matchups. There isn't really a build order. The difference between a FE and speedling by the time the push comes is insignificant, and there can be so much between that time that can alter the situation the zerg and terran is in.
Anyways, large numbers of speedlings can work too actually, but it depends on his tank/hellion ratio I guess.
Replays... and no it's no unstoppable. Drone up, if you are unprepared then you were outplayed and need better idea of the situation next time.
Edit:
Hint: Since they need to hit before Mutas come out, expect them to be moving out at 10 as a general rule of thumb, and aim for that. They will need to slow push and deal damage before Mutas come out, so that's why they will move out 1-2 minutes before the Spire should finish. If they scan your spire, expect them to know when Mutas come out and prepare accordingly for his push 1 minutes before (he should be slow pushing, so you will have a little more time than that, actually more like 1-2 min).
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On August 21 2011 22:43 [7x]laV wrote:
im high ml league.
I think 1 base siege tank / hellions is about 9 minute timing, with 3 tanks. (I dont use such strategies so i dont know exactly)
I think he will have 3 tanks and 8 helions +-300 minerals (marines, another 3 helions, etc). Please post replay if im wrong.
but at 9 minute what zerg should have:
1)2-3 queens
2)2 crawlers or 1 crawler + several roaches
3)about 30 drones
4)About 2 tank shot range creep spread.
5)About 10-18 larvas and infestors or mutalisks building OR roaches + banelings buildings (depends on zerg style)
So, terran comes on your spreaded creep.
Because he is all-inning he cant just stay, he should attack.
And...He moves into the creep.
You just make 30 lings, take 3 queens, 2 crawlers and all drones from your expo, and surround and kill it. It is easy on creep. And of course it depends of map
gg
First of all, I completely understand OP's frustration. This build is used so much in NA diamond league right now. It feels pretty damn unstoppable to me as well.
First of all, the push comes at 8 minutes not nine. It's hard to scout because, if you do the old 7 minute ovie suicide, you're pretty much dead when he pushes a minute later. When the push comes, I'm usually at about 40 food, I've only just put guys in gas, and my lair is nowhere near done. So i've got, some lings with speed, some spines, and definitely not lair. And taking lair anywhere before 35 supply on 2 bases is a really bad idea, because you don't have enough drones to actually support it. I'd post a replay, but I'm pretty sure I get abusive in all my games against this build  I've pretty much resorted to ling / baneling busting every single game.
Edit: To everyone telling OP to get mutas, this terran build is designed to be super all-in. It's not that simple. To get lair out on time you have to stay on one base, which is suicide against pretty much every other mech build.
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why not just build roaches?
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I can predict this: Terrans are gonna dominate zerg so hard it isn't fun anymore. Noone can do anything about it. Everyone has seen MMA vs Nestea. Everyone has seen MVP vs DRG. Korean terrans are gonna stop losing to zerg. Ever. MMA vs Nestea is the future of TvZ.
Helion into marine tank. Keep pushing everytime you get two tanks. Once you have forced roaches with your helions its GG. Combat shield marines+ Medivacs dont die to roaches. They just. Dont. Die.
I think were gonna see a period of terrans dominating zergs.
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defend hellion pressure. saturate and start a spire. spines SLOW the push, they are not to beat it.
keep a bunch of lings ready for a counter attack and to kill off reinforcements. don't fight it head on until you have mutas.
if you watch good zergs, they use speedlings to keep the T back unreinforced. They don't let the t get position.
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Aren't you the same user who registered to tell people PvZ was imbalanced, yesterday? Please, put some thought into things. If you lose to something then chances are you just need to get better.
On August 22 2011 00:44 Tommie wrote:
I can predict this: Terrans are gonna dominate zerg so hard it isn't fun anymore. Noone can do anything about it. Everyone has seen MMA vs Nestea. Everyone has seen MVP vs DRG. Korean terrans are gonna stop losing to zerg. Ever. MMA vs Nestea is the future of TvZ.
Helion into marine tank. Keep pushing everytime you get two tanks. Once you have forced roaches with your helions its GG. Combat shield marines+ Medivacs dont die to roaches. They just. Dont. Die.
I think were gonna see a period of terrans dominating zergs.
So make banelings? Every time I've seen a zerg be successful against that opener is when they don't even go for roaches, and opt for banes instead. It's worked out for me too, so it can't be that hard...
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Yikes... I'm feeling the ban hammer coming down on this QQ post as we speak. But, I will admit, 2fact all-in on 1base is pretty filthy.
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oh this isn't a [H] or anything cause i've given up on zerg and SC2 in general, gl hf
Pure gold. Please dont start threads like this, but feel free to submit a replay we can then discuss 
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On August 22 2011 01:06 Krede wrote:Show nested quote +oh this isn't a [H] or anything cause i've given up on zerg and SC2 in general, gl hf Pure gold. Please dont start threads like this, but feel free to submit a replay we can then discuss
Oh come on, this guy doesn't want help. He's already decided for himself that he doesn't belong in the competitive starcraft scene... and well, I'd agree based on the posts I've seen from him.
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EPT
