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On July 05 2011 01:35 Aterons_toss wrote:Guess col is kinda sad that they didn't made the deal with Destiny. I would like to say that Bomber is kind of a noob getting owned by someone who isn't even considered pro but you gotta hand it to Destiny as well... insane games. He kinda overdid it with infestor imo  Like 45 infestors was just... too much.
Theres never to much infestors, they need looking at for balance imo
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On July 05 2011 06:38 z00m wrote:
@GinDo Nice theory but the exitence of Banes still threat T and gosu Marine spreading also makes Infestors more useless but without it( watch the games) FG'd Marines are still
a nice Target for Banes...
2/2 lings utterly devastate spread out 0/1 marines. 2 Zerglings are very cost effective against one marine, as the numbers go up the available surface area goes down and marines become extremely cost effective. Infestors destroy clumped up marines but can't deal out the damage when they're spread out but that gives them too much surface area and the lings kill them.
That's why he didn't need banelings. Also going for banelings AND infestors would leave no gas for teching to hive and getting mass upgrades as well as having too much redundancy.
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I love everything about Destiny's build, the fast upgrades, infestor play and the early hive for broodlords. However one thing that bugs me is the low economy style and cutting workers. Zerg has the ability to produce workers faster than any of the two other races, and not taking advantage of that makes me feel that it's the only thing holding Destiny back from being an even better player.
I feel like as zerg when you see no aggression from your opponent (with good scouting of course) you should only be making drones or teching to get ahead. I believe I've even seen Destiny play this same low econ style against a forge FE protoss, which I highly disagree with, even though his micro has won him those games.
My point is, you can play a ling/infestor style with high economy just as well when you take advantage of opportunities to drone up. I've seen Morrow and Dimaga do this very effectively combined with their sick infestor plays.
All points aside, this was a very well played series by Destiny, who continues to show steady improvement in his play  .
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United States1471 Posts
On July 05 2011 07:18 Lando wrote:I love everything about Destiny's build, the fast upgrades, infestor play and the early hive for broodlords. However one thing that bugs me is the low economy style and cutting workers. Zerg has the ability to produce workers faster than any of the two other races, and not taking advantage of that makes me feel that it's the only thing holding Destiny back from being an even better player. I feel like as zerg when you see no aggression from your opponent (with good scouting of course) you should only be making drones or teching to get ahead. I believe I've even seen Destiny play this same low econ style against a forge FE protoss, which I highly disagree with, even though his micro has won him those games. My point is, you can play a ling/infestor style with high economy just as well when you take advantage of opportunities to drone up. I've seen Morrow and Dimaga do this very effectively combined with their sick infestor plays. All points aside, this was a very well played series by Destiny, who continues to show steady improvement in his play .
lol what?
he has obviously settled on a low drone count. and he obviously had more then enough units. you dont need 90 drones to win.
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I think the late game composition is good, but I feel like he sacrifices too much early game economy and cant prepare properly for drops and such with the 11 overpool.
I think a hatch first opener with a spine would set him up for a more solid mid game, I think his mid game drone cut is a smart move when going for infestor centric play since you don't need than many drones to support it, your limited by gas not minerals, and once he is safe he can double expand and saturate quickly because infestors are such a larva light unit.
I feel like the style is still weak against multi prong drops, and has some timing holes like we saw in game 2, although he was at a huge economic disadvantage in that game as well because he made 2 spines to deal with the rax play.
Game 3 his 1/1 finished and he had a good surround vs marines that were split to provide more surface area which put him in a huge lead so I personally just ignore the rest of the game cause bomber was so far behind.
That being said I am really looking forward to more top level zergs experimenting with this type of play and it becoming more refined and impressive as time goes on.
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Terrans do not seem to have learned yet that any ling-infestor build is easy to scout and it dies to so many things. Watch fxotgun get raped in the gstl for an example of this.
Things that beat ling-infestor early-mid game:
-2 rax pressure to set Zerg behind, followed by a marine tank push sometime in the following 5 minutes which hits before infestors, and sometimes even ling speed if they delay gas, are out.
-blue flame hellion drops. Absolutely no way to handle this effectively with lings and it hits away before infestors are out.
-Hellion harass into banshee harass, or straight up 2 port banshee.
Muta/baneling openers shut all of these down, infestors do not.
As for mid-late game, ghosts are great in a straight up fight, and multi-pronged 16-marine drops completely dismantle any zvt style that doesn't involve mutas.
Terrans will figure this out soon enough. The trick to beating powerful but slow units like infestors, colossus, or mech is and always has been to not engage them directly.
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What made you think this was an acceptable OP? When was the last time we let a four line OP with a link to a VOD fly here?
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EPT
