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The Price of a Human Life in Terms of Alcohol - Page 11

Forum Index > Closed
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MangoTango
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States3670 Posts
June 16 2011 16:46 GMT
#201
The primary point that this post boils down to is "voluntarily" giving up rights for the safety of ourselves and others. The problem with this argument is obvious. We have, through many historical experiments, learned what the ideal role for law and society is. The best government is that which governs least. Violations of the liberties of others, now that's where the law should and does have teeth. Namely, if a person gets drunk at home or at a bar, and is peacefully minding his own business and having a good time, who's to tell him he can't enjoy life? We are, after all, encouraged and afforded the liberty of pursuit of happiness. However, the moment a drunk person gets behind a car and becomes a menace to others, the law should and can intervene.
"One fish, two fish, red fish, BLUE TANK!" - Artosis
SlayerS_BunkiE
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada1717 Posts
June 16 2011 16:49 GMT
#202
just obvious that it's ridiculously unfair to ban alcohol entirely because of drunk drivers.
and people will never allow it.

i don't drink. i don't smoke. but i would never cast any kind of vote to ban them entirely.

imo drunk drivers should just be punished a lot more.
iloveby.SlayerS_BunkiE[Shield]
Ziktomini
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom377 Posts
June 16 2011 16:56 GMT
#203
I would never drink if it were to save lives, but I'm not going to responsible for deaths from drinking so it is kind of null, however I guess most would say that.
resilve
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom678 Posts
June 16 2011 17:00 GMT
#204
I don't really understand OP's argument.

The vast majority (read: nearly all) of fatalities that have alcohol as a main factor are due to someone breaking the law. That is why we have laws - so we can safely use alcohol. If you get in your car drunk and mow down a row of people it is the illegal activity of driving while drunk, not the legal activity of drinking that is the issue.

There are legal restrictions that are very stringent on alcohol, such as age/volume/locational limitations, but doing something illegal once drunk and causing a death is due to your illegal action, not the alcohol.

We all know that drink-driving, or selling alcohol to a 12 year old is illegal, because it can easily result in a death - that is why they are against the law. Partaking in those actions is what needs to be avoided, not removing alcohol from the equation.

Surely, people breaking the law is what causes alcohol-related deaths, not alcohol that is used legally. If you drink alcohol and then act within the law, you will cause no harm to yourself or others. If you act outside the law you will likely cause harm to yourself and others - but since when is that not the case, and why is alcohol special?
Socke Fighting!!!!
GurZtly
Profile Joined June 2011
Austria148 Posts
June 16 2011 17:00 GMT
#205
Alcohol is legal... but why is weed illegal? I mean think, in the end, they are very similar drugs. Yeah i love my beer and i´m not a weed smoker, but it´s unfair in some kind, is´nt it?
DuckS
Profile Joined September 2010
United States845 Posts
June 16 2011 17:27 GMT
#206
On June 16 2011 15:30 MangoTango wrote:
Pretty sure we in the US tried this once. It didn't work out too well.


This was pretty much my first thought as well.
Theoretically, it wouldn't end well - look at prohibition. Alcohol doesn't make you do anything, it's the person drinking, and their self control.
"You foiled us this time Americans, but your liberty will not protect your Marilyn Monroe forever - our Queen must FEED!" - Deleuze
DuckS
Profile Joined September 2010
United States845 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 17:30:34
June 16 2011 17:29 GMT
#207
On June 17 2011 02:00 GurZtly wrote:
Alcohol is legal... but why is weed illegal? I mean think, in the end, they are very similar drugs. Yeah i love my beer and i´m not a weed smoker, but it´s unfair in some kind, is´nt it?


Also, how the hell is weed relevant ._.

EDIT: sorry for double posting, TL mobile is a bitch to use ^^.
"You foiled us this time Americans, but your liberty will not protect your Marilyn Monroe forever - our Queen must FEED!" - Deleuze
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 17:31:45
June 16 2011 17:30 GMT
#208
--- Nuked ---
Greggle
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1131 Posts
June 16 2011 17:30 GMT
#209
If you think alcohol is not essential to some people you've never had a girlfriend.
Life is too short to take it seriously.
Krehlmar
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1149 Posts
June 16 2011 17:55 GMT
#210
I drink myself shitfaced on a regular basis, Never done anything bad.

Stupid topic, stupid people will always be stupid, it's a proven fact that alcohol doesn't turn you into someone you are not... you're just that bad person deep inside and need to come to terms with that problem and work it out, banning alcohol isn't how to stop people from being violent.

Really really stupid topic.
My Comment Doesnt Matter Because No One Reads It
Serelitz
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands2895 Posts
June 16 2011 18:24 GMT
#211
"This post is about whether you as an individual would voluntarily give up the pleasure of drinking if it meant that there were less stupid people out there getting drunk and driving, and killing people."

But that's the point - not drinking doesn't cause less deaths, only your potential own. As long as you drink responsibly I really don't see the point in this.
strength
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States493 Posts
June 16 2011 18:29 GMT
#212
i can see myself giving up drinking.. I think the governed needs to be in control of selling it so we can get out of this debt(usa debt) =]
OldBamboo
Profile Joined January 2011
United States42 Posts
June 16 2011 18:41 GMT
#213
"Would you give up drinking if it meant less deaths?"

It's a false premise. Even if it were possible for all Americans to come together and say, "Yes, we will abstain from alcohol" you would just see different kinds of deaths. People are idiots, and they consistently make poor choices. If the choice to drive and drink is removed, they'll make another poor choice.

If you want to know if I would cease to participate in [activity x] in order to save lives, then the answer to that question is yes.

You just can't successfully argue that banning alcohol is a good solution, and you also have the weight of history against you.

If you want to end drunk driving, here's a way to do it:
http://www.freakonomics.com/2010/07/13/last-call-for-drunk-driving-posts/
Tachyon
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark146 Posts
June 16 2011 18:50 GMT
#214
You can get a license at 16, die for your country at 18, but not drink alcohol until 21. I think the problem is with your laws, not with alcohol. Starting at such a late age with no experience will lead to these kinds of problems, plus the fact that 16-year olds should never be allowed to drive in the first place. Look to other western countries, compare statistics, and think about why they're different. Make appropriate action based on these thoughts. With alcohol, experience is the key.
I shall be telling this with a sigh somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I— I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference.
Eppa!
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden4641 Posts
June 16 2011 18:50 GMT
#215
On June 17 2011 02:30 Barrin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2011 02:00 GurZtly wrote:
Alcohol is legal... but why is weed illegal? I mean think, in the end, they are very similar drugs. Yeah i love my beer and i´m not a weed smoker, but it´s unfair in some kind, is´nt it?

... They're not very similar at all other than the fact they they are both mind-altering.

How many people die because of alcohol every year?
How many people die because of marijuana every year?

How many people get diagnosed with serious long-term illnesses from alcohol every year?
How many people get diagnosed with serious long-term illnesses from marijuana every year?

How many families are ruined/scarred because of alcohol-influenced violence/abuse every year?
How many families are ruined/scarred because of marijuana-influenced violence/abuse every year?

How many babies are born with deformities because of alcohol every year?
How many babies are born with deformities because of marijuana every year?

I could keep going, but I shouldn't have to, because on every count alcohol is waaaaaay worse than marijuana. I shouldn't have to cite this because at this point it's actually common knowledge.

One can argue that there are more alcohol-users than marijuana-users, and I guess that's probably true, but if you then take these same questions in terms of percentage of users, the story is pretty much the same.

Show nested quote +
On June 17 2011 02:29 DuckS wrote:
On June 17 2011 02:00 GurZtly wrote:
Alcohol is legal... but why is weed illegal? I mean think, in the end, they are very similar drugs. Yeah i love my beer and i´m not a weed smoker, but it´s unfair in some kind, is´nt it?


Also, how the hell is weed relevant ._.

Because when compared to alcohol, the fact that it is illegal is utterly ridiculous.

How the hell isn't it relevant?

Because Laws are not based on what is the most healthy, tobacco is poison its allowed because of culture.
"Can't wait till Monday" Cixah+Waveofshadow. "Needs to be monday. Weekend please go by quickly." Gahlo
Schnake
Profile Joined September 2003
Germany2819 Posts
June 16 2011 19:01 GMT
#216
A more practical approach would be to have cars only work when you are sober. Problem solved, no need to ban alcohol.
"Alán Shore" and "August Terran" @ LoL EUW - liquidparty
Sephy90
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1785 Posts
June 16 2011 19:04 GMT
#217
On June 17 2011 03:50 Tachyon wrote:
You can get a license at 16, die for your country at 18, but not drink alcohol until 21. I think the problem is with your laws, not with alcohol. Starting at such a late age with no experience will lead to these kinds of problems, plus the fact that 16-year olds should never be allowed to drive in the first place. Look to other western countries, compare statistics, and think about why they're different. Make appropriate action based on these thoughts. With alcohol, experience is the key.

I heard a while back somewhere that they wanted to reduce the drinking age to 18 because people would drink more responsibly at a younger age or something like that. Has anyone heard of this also? I wanted to bring this up and see what you guys think about it. I want to bring a little more discussion to this matter because I love TL hehehehe.
"So I turned the lights off at night and practiced by myself"
CowMoo
Profile Joined May 2011
United States45 Posts
June 16 2011 19:15 GMT
#218
I am 19, started driving at 16, and started drinking at 18. I have never driven drunk. I've already lost 3 friends to driving under the influence. Our education program is already starting to make headway in reducing the number of drinking and driving deaths, and personal experiences like mine will ensure that there are fewer future drunk drivers.

And like other posters have said, Germany has it right. Almost nobody dies there because the government actually maintains the roads, and people don't drink and drive for cultural reasons. We need to try and achieve this with drunk driving education in schools and on tv. It could also be a to introduce kids to alcohol at an even younger age, 16 or so. (German teenagers are allowed to drink watered-down alcohol, e.g. half beer/lemonade, in restaurants if they are with their parents.)

In terms of technology:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_interlock_device
Ford has already presented some ideas about outfitting cars with this, and I believe legislation was introduced to Congress about a year ago that would make these mandatory by somewhere around 2015 (don't believe it passed.)

I'm sure that the NHTSA is already well on its way to researching these however.
SpearWrit
Profile Joined February 2011
United States300 Posts
June 16 2011 19:19 GMT
#219
I'd only give it up if I decided to convert to Islam or Mormonism.
"Special Tactics is...make surprise for your enemy, and also...eh, still work." -White-Ra
KomradeKevin
Profile Joined July 2010
United States88 Posts
June 16 2011 19:20 GMT
#220
I don't see how the OP is leaving any room for discussion by creating a hypothetical situation in which the majority actually wanted to get rid of alcohol. Obviously the main issue is that most people do not want to give up their right to drink. By simply saying what if everyone was different and wanted to, then obviously there would be less drunk driving fatalities. If such a large majority already had those feelings toward drinking, making it illegal wouldn't be necessary because people already are not drinking and hence creating less drunk driving instances without the passing of some law.
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