On April 03 2012 14:11 sluggaslamoo wrote: After seeing this thread before, I stopped watching youtube videos and reading PUAForums and started hitting up some books, I've finished The Mystery Method and am halfway through The Game and thinking of just reading up LNP out of curiosity. I feel that the balance between the very scientific nature of the mystery method, and the auto-biographic nature of the game helps blend it all in.
I've definitely learned a lot, although I'm not going to be mass gaming any time soon and I'm just going to practise on A2-3 B1-2 mostly occasionally with friends and waitresses and stuff, that's where my biggest weakness is I think (I always did bad in literature style english, and wasn't too good at establishing comfort with words. I'm very bad at telling long jokes and stories, or acting sincere or coming up with good things to say quickly.
Since reading the book I met an exchange student and very smoothly transitioned from A-C to a lay within 5-6 hours (the 7 hour rule is a good rule), where as before I had to ride out certain bumps by compensating with my other skills, this time I felt like I could safely transition into each phase much more easily.
It was a really good experiment for me because I knew I had nothing to lose as she was going back home that week, but after the close and what I thought was the last day, she spammed me with text messages the next day because she wanted to see me on the last day (even though I said "no sorry I can't" like 5 times). She really wants to see me again, and I said someday, she said "really? sounds like you are not coming ". I really am not sure whether I'm going to see her again, but at least the opportunity exists if I want it.
I've never been that good socially, but have relied on my kinesthetic awareness (I played a lot of sport, and played music), at clubs and parties like with dancing and escalating kino. I was also considered somewhat of a pretty boy and am naturally pretty confident, so A1 (first level attraction) is completely not a problem for me I don't think, neither is B-3 (comfort) to C-3 (sex)
For me I don't believe negging and showing too much disinterest in A1 will work that effectively, I already consider myself a lot more attractive than the regular PUA, and I've been caught blowing myself out of sets and girls becoming too nervous to talk to me again instead of just transitioning into comfort. Therefore very recently I've been calibrating myself to try to only use negs that are focused on establishing comfort more than lowering the perceived value of the target. The kind of punch-in-the-arm jokes that you make as if you are old friends.
One big mistake (although not as the result of a neg but from an action that has a similar effect) I did recently was a 9-10 waitress (and I have really high standards) opened up to me while I was waiting for my coffee. I knew she was really nervous because she would give strong IOI's whenever I walked into the shop, but nervous ones, like quickly turning around and loooking like 'oh shit hes here!' IOIs and then twirling her hair, taking a deep breath and giving a really bright smile and saying "hey!" and waiting for me to order.
So I one day I was waiting for my coffee and she came up to me and asked me how I was going blah blah blah and I asked her what she did on the weekend, she said she did a couple of parties, and that allowed me to transition into talking about the fake halloween costume party 21st my friend held on saturday.
She laughed and seemed really interested and gave a response about an item of clothing that took me a while to figure out what it was, but it was long enough to cause dead silence, and then I figured hey why not wait for an IOI and see if she re-initiates the conversation, so I looked the other way a bit to show disinterest and she started wiping the tables for a pretty long time and then walked away. I've done this before with less attractive more talkative girls, maybe she just wasn't used to a guy not being interested enough to hold the conversation (because hey when a 10 opens up to you, 99% of the time the guy would be all over her), or maybe she was a bit nervous to come up with anything.
I think her walk away was similar the kind guys do when girls use their bitch-shield or anti-slut-defense, so I think I just used my tactical-shield. My coffee came a minute later from another waitress (who is also quite attractive and seems somewhat keen on me although I'm not sure). Next day she asked for my order just like she did with everyone else. Well it was worth a shot and I'm not really fussed by it.
That said I still think I have a chance with her, she still shows IOIs physically (not as much), but verbally they are missing now, I guess I gotta work from lower down now and work really hard on establishing comfort and getting her more invested in me again (my biggest weakness T_T).
Atm just focusing on how to maximise demonstration of value, how to get a girl to invest, escalation of comfort without kino and learning how to tell stories and keep an [interesting] conversation going.
If you have any tips on above situation let me know. Yes I know early learning pickup is completely about trying more and making mistakes and learning from them but it would be still nice to know if anyone has any ideas.
MysteryMethod, while it was amazing back in the day, a lot of the stuff is outdated.
1. Indirect style (the heart of MM) is not great if you want to eliminate bad inner game. Why? Because you aren't putting yourself out there. Direct game never existed during the start of MM. Direct game puts your self out there, it forces you to put yourself on the spot. Can you even get hardcore blown out doing indirect? You won't grow balls doing indirect, and you certainly will learn how to escalate very SLOWLY. Now direct game may not always be tactically the best idea in certain situations, but if you NEVER do direct game, you are going to have a gaping hole in your overall skill level.
2. IOIs dont always mean anything. Ever met a girl who is naturally flirty with everyone? Shes smiling, laughing, touching her hair. But you ask her to come over 5 feet and she says no. We now know that IOIs dont mean shit. Compliance is KING. If a girl is not giving you IOIs, but you ask her to suck your dick and she complies, what matters more? Obviously compliance. Some girls just never give IOIs but she listens to your every request. What should you trust more? Obviously compliance.
3. Mystery's style is not universally applicable. His style only shines for him in his environment, which is the Hollywood club scene, where people dress weird. You go to a frat party or a some chill college environment such as Pacific Beach, and you wear a fucking TOP hat with black nails, you will get DESTROYED. People will think you are a god damn freak. My friend took him to Pacific Beach and he failed miserably.
Speaking from my own interaction experience, I think that the core fundamental teachings is not as obsolete as you make it sound in the modern PU environment. His classification on the stages of the dark art still hold some light of truth. You still have to manage to manipulate the surrounding in order to maximize your self aesthetic appeal with the anticipation of getting noticed. Unless you will be using pure "natural" game. Afterward, the building up of comfort is very much necessary to gain the trust of the 'target' or some may call it 'HB'. And later, you have to remind yourself to not turn out to be just an average joe that she met on the street but a potential sex partner.
There have been a lot of times when I forgot to move myself upward in this chain and overdid one move or another. I think that for that reason, there are still some useful tools and tricks from studying a bit of MM's material.
On April 03 2012 14:11 sluggaslamoo wrote: After seeing this thread before, I stopped watching youtube videos and reading PUAForums and started hitting up some books, I've finished The Mystery Method and am halfway through The Game and thinking of just reading up LNP out of curiosity. I feel that the balance between the very scientific nature of the mystery method, and the auto-biographic nature of the game helps blend it all in.
I've definitely learned a lot, although I'm not going to be mass gaming any time soon and I'm just going to practise on A2-3 B1-2 mostly occasionally with friends and waitresses and stuff, that's where my biggest weakness is I think (I always did bad in literature style english, and wasn't too good at establishing comfort with words. I'm very bad at telling long jokes and stories, or acting sincere or coming up with good things to say quickly.
Since reading the book I met an exchange student and very smoothly transitioned from A-C to a lay within 5-6 hours (the 7 hour rule is a good rule), where as before I had to ride out certain bumps by compensating with my other skills, this time I felt like I could safely transition into each phase much more easily.
It was a really good experiment for me because I knew I had nothing to lose as she was going back home that week, but after the close and what I thought was the last day, she spammed me with text messages the next day because she wanted to see me on the last day (even though I said "no sorry I can't" like 5 times). She really wants to see me again, and I said someday, she said "really? sounds like you are not coming ". I really am not sure whether I'm going to see her again, but at least the opportunity exists if I want it.
I've never been that good socially, but have relied on my kinesthetic awareness (I played a lot of sport, and played music), at clubs and parties like with dancing and escalating kino. I was also considered somewhat of a pretty boy and am naturally pretty confident, so A1 (first level attraction) is completely not a problem for me I don't think, neither is B-3 (comfort) to C-3 (sex)
For me I don't believe negging and showing too much disinterest in A1 will work that effectively, I already consider myself a lot more attractive than the regular PUA, and I've been caught blowing myself out of sets and girls becoming too nervous to talk to me again instead of just transitioning into comfort. Therefore very recently I've been calibrating myself to try to only use negs that are focused on establishing comfort more than lowering the perceived value of the target. The kind of punch-in-the-arm jokes that you make as if you are old friends.
One big mistake (although not as the result of a neg but from an action that has a similar effect) I did recently was a 9-10 waitress (and I have really high standards) opened up to me while I was waiting for my coffee. I knew she was really nervous because she would give strong IOI's whenever I walked into the shop, but nervous ones, like quickly turning around and loooking like 'oh shit hes here!' IOIs and then twirling her hair, taking a deep breath and giving a really bright smile and saying "hey!" and waiting for me to order.
So I one day I was waiting for my coffee and she came up to me and asked me how I was going blah blah blah and I asked her what she did on the weekend, she said she did a couple of parties, and that allowed me to transition into talking about the fake halloween costume party 21st my friend held on saturday.
She laughed and seemed really interested and gave a response about an item of clothing that took me a while to figure out what it was, but it was long enough to cause dead silence, and then I figured hey why not wait for an IOI and see if she re-initiates the conversation, so I looked the other way a bit to show disinterest and she started wiping the tables for a pretty long time and then walked away. I've done this before with less attractive more talkative girls, maybe she just wasn't used to a guy not being interested enough to hold the conversation (because hey when a 10 opens up to you, 99% of the time the guy would be all over her), or maybe she was a bit nervous to come up with anything.
I think her walk away was similar the kind guys do when girls use their bitch-shield or anti-slut-defense, so I think I just used my tactical-shield. My coffee came a minute later from another waitress (who is also quite attractive and seems somewhat keen on me although I'm not sure). Next day she asked for my order just like she did with everyone else. Well it was worth a shot and I'm not really fussed by it.
That said I still think I have a chance with her, she still shows IOIs physically (not as much), but verbally they are missing now, I guess I gotta work from lower down now and work really hard on establishing comfort and getting her more invested in me again (my biggest weakness T_T).
Atm just focusing on how to maximise demonstration of value, how to get a girl to invest, escalation of comfort without kino and learning how to tell stories and keep an [interesting] conversation going.
If you have any tips on above situation let me know. Yes I know early learning pickup is completely about trying more and making mistakes and learning from them but it would be still nice to know if anyone has any ideas.
MysteryMethod, while it was amazing back in the day, a lot of the stuff is outdated.
1. Indirect style (the heart of MM) is not great if you want to eliminate bad inner game. Why? Because you aren't putting yourself out there. Direct game never existed during the start of MM. Direct game puts your self out there, it forces you to put yourself on the spot. Can you even get hardcore blown out doing indirect? You won't grow balls doing indirect, and you certainly will learn how to escalate very SLOWLY. Now direct game may not always be tactically the best idea in certain situations, but if you NEVER do direct game, you are going to have a gaping hole in your overall skill level.
2. IOIs dont always mean anything. Ever met a girl who is naturally flirty with everyone? Shes smiling, laughing, touching her hair. But you ask her to come over 5 feet and she says no. We now know that IOIs dont mean shit. Compliance is KING. If a girl is not giving you IOIs, but you ask her to suck your dick and she complies, what matters more? Obviously compliance. Some girls just never give IOIs but she listens to your every request. What should you trust more? Obviously compliance.
3. Mystery's style is not universally applicable. His style only shines for him in his environment, which is the Hollywood club scene, where people dress weird. You go to a frat party or a some chill college environment such as Pacific Beach, and you wear a fucking TOP hat with black nails, you will get DESTROYED. People will think you are a god damn freak. My friend took him to Pacific Beach and he failed miserably.
Speaking from my own interaction experience, I think that the core fundamental teachings is not as obsolete as you make it sound in the modern PU environment. His classification on the stages of the dark art still hold some light of truth. You still have to manage to manipulate the surrounding in order to maximize your self aesthetic appeal with the anticipation of getting noticed. Unless you will be using pure "natural" game. Afterward, the building up of comfort is very much necessary to gain the trust of the 'target' or some may call it 'HB'. And later, you have to remind yourself to not turn out to be just an average joe that she met on the street but a potential sex partner.
There have been a lot of times when I forgot to move myself upward in this chain and overdid one move or another. I think that for that reason, there are still some useful tools and tricks from studying a bit of MM's material.
Dude, your posts sounds hella weird. You dont even talk like a person. Can you talk normally please? How about just call the girl a .... Girl. You don't have to quote "target" and "HB" like it some new hotcake word fresh out of the oven lol.
"Speaking from my own interaction experience, I think that the core fundamental teachings is not as obsolete as you make it sound in the modern PU environment. His classification on the stages of the dark art still hold some light of truth. You still have to manage to manipulate the surrounding in order to maximize your self aesthetic appeal with the anticipation of getting noticed. Unless you will be using pure "natural" game."
WTF is this? I feel like I'm talking to a wizard here. Nobody is discrediting MM completely. Its just out dated on certain areas. The 7 hour rule is not a core fundamental. A core fundamental would be how to have a normal conversation.
On April 03 2012 14:11 sluggaslamoo wrote: After seeing this thread before, I stopped watching youtube videos and reading PUAForums and started hitting up some books, I've finished The Mystery Method and am halfway through The Game and thinking of just reading up LNP out of curiosity. I feel that the balance between the very scientific nature of the mystery method, and the auto-biographic nature of the game helps blend it all in.
I've definitely learned a lot, although I'm not going to be mass gaming any time soon and I'm just going to practise on A2-3 B1-2 mostly occasionally with friends and waitresses and stuff, that's where my biggest weakness is I think (I always did bad in literature style english, and wasn't too good at establishing comfort with words. I'm very bad at telling long jokes and stories, or acting sincere or coming up with good things to say quickly.
Since reading the book I met an exchange student and very smoothly transitioned from A-C to a lay within 5-6 hours (the 7 hour rule is a good rule), where as before I had to ride out certain bumps by compensating with my other skills, this time I felt like I could safely transition into each phase much more easily.
It was a really good experiment for me because I knew I had nothing to lose as she was going back home that week, but after the close and what I thought was the last day, she spammed me with text messages the next day because she wanted to see me on the last day (even though I said "no sorry I can't" like 5 times). She really wants to see me again, and I said someday, she said "really? sounds like you are not coming ". I really am not sure whether I'm going to see her again, but at least the opportunity exists if I want it.
I've never been that good socially, but have relied on my kinesthetic awareness (I played a lot of sport, and played music), at clubs and parties like with dancing and escalating kino. I was also considered somewhat of a pretty boy and am naturally pretty confident, so A1 (first level attraction) is completely not a problem for me I don't think, neither is B-3 (comfort) to C-3 (sex)
For me I don't believe negging and showing too much disinterest in A1 will work that effectively, I already consider myself a lot more attractive than the regular PUA, and I've been caught blowing myself out of sets and girls becoming too nervous to talk to me again instead of just transitioning into comfort. Therefore very recently I've been calibrating myself to try to only use negs that are focused on establishing comfort more than lowering the perceived value of the target. The kind of punch-in-the-arm jokes that you make as if you are old friends.
One big mistake (although not as the result of a neg but from an action that has a similar effect) I did recently was a 9-10 waitress (and I have really high standards) opened up to me while I was waiting for my coffee. I knew she was really nervous because she would give strong IOI's whenever I walked into the shop, but nervous ones, like quickly turning around and loooking like 'oh shit hes here!' IOIs and then twirling her hair, taking a deep breath and giving a really bright smile and saying "hey!" and waiting for me to order.
So I one day I was waiting for my coffee and she came up to me and asked me how I was going blah blah blah and I asked her what she did on the weekend, she said she did a couple of parties, and that allowed me to transition into talking about the fake halloween costume party 21st my friend held on saturday.
She laughed and seemed really interested and gave a response about an item of clothing that took me a while to figure out what it was, but it was long enough to cause dead silence, and then I figured hey why not wait for an IOI and see if she re-initiates the conversation, so I looked the other way a bit to show disinterest and she started wiping the tables for a pretty long time and then walked away. I've done this before with less attractive more talkative girls, maybe she just wasn't used to a guy not being interested enough to hold the conversation (because hey when a 10 opens up to you, 99% of the time the guy would be all over her), or maybe she was a bit nervous to come up with anything.
I think her walk away was similar the kind guys do when girls use their bitch-shield or anti-slut-defense, so I think I just used my tactical-shield. My coffee came a minute later from another waitress (who is also quite attractive and seems somewhat keen on me although I'm not sure). Next day she asked for my order just like she did with everyone else. Well it was worth a shot and I'm not really fussed by it.
That said I still think I have a chance with her, she still shows IOIs physically (not as much), but verbally they are missing now, I guess I gotta work from lower down now and work really hard on establishing comfort and getting her more invested in me again (my biggest weakness T_T).
Atm just focusing on how to maximise demonstration of value, how to get a girl to invest, escalation of comfort without kino and learning how to tell stories and keep an [interesting] conversation going.
If you have any tips on above situation let me know. Yes I know early learning pickup is completely about trying more and making mistakes and learning from them but it would be still nice to know if anyone has any ideas.
MysteryMethod, while it was amazing back in the day, a lot of the stuff is outdated.
1. Indirect style (the heart of MM) is not great if you want to eliminate bad inner game. Why? Because you aren't putting yourself out there. Direct game never existed during the start of MM. Direct game puts your self out there, it forces you to put yourself on the spot. Can you even get hardcore blown out doing indirect? You won't grow balls doing indirect, and you certainly will learn how to escalate very SLOWLY. Now direct game may not always be tactically the best idea in certain situations, but if you NEVER do direct game, you are going to have a gaping hole in your overall skill level.
2. IOIs dont always mean anything. Ever met a girl who is naturally flirty with everyone? Shes smiling, laughing, touching her hair. But you ask her to come over 5 feet and she says no. We now know that IOIs dont mean shit. Compliance is KING. If a girl is not giving you IOIs, but you ask her to suck your dick and she complies, what matters more? Obviously compliance. Some girls just never give IOIs but she listens to your every request. What should you trust more? Obviously compliance.
3. Mystery's style is not universally applicable. His style only shines for him in his environment, which is the Hollywood club scene, where people dress weird. You go to a frat party or a some chill college environment such as Pacific Beach, and you wear a fucking TOP hat with black nails, you will get DESTROYED. People will think you are a god damn freak. My friend took him to Pacific Beach and he failed miserably.
Speaking from my own interaction experience, I think that the core fundamental teachings is not as obsolete as you make it sound in the modern PU environment. His classification on the stages of the dark art still hold some light of truth. You still have to manage to manipulate the surrounding in order to maximize your self aesthetic appeal with the anticipation of getting noticed. Unless you will be using pure "natural" game. Afterward, the building up of comfort is very much necessary to gain the trust of the 'target' or some may call it 'HB'. And later, you have to remind yourself to not turn out to be just an average joe that she met on the street but a potential sex partner.
There have been a lot of times when I forgot to move myself upward in this chain and overdid one move or another. I think that for that reason, there are still some useful tools and tricks from studying a bit of MM's material.
Dude, your posts sounds hella weird. You dont even talk like a person. Can you talk normally please? How about just call the girl a .... Girl. You don't have to quote "target" and "HB" like it some new hotcake word fresh out of the oven lol.
"Speaking from my own interaction experience, I think that the core fundamental teachings is not as obsolete as you make it sound in the modern PU environment. His classification on the stages of the dark art still hold some light of truth. You still have to manage to manipulate the surrounding in order to maximize your self aesthetic appeal with the anticipation of getting noticed. Unless you will be using pure "natural" game."
WTF is this? I feel like I'm talking to a wizard here. Nobody is discrediting MM completely. Its just out dated on certain areas. The 7 hour rule is not a core fundamental. A core fundamental would be how to have a normal conversation.
First of all, oh do I feel wise now.
Secondly, the usage of "target" or "HB" is especially written for peeps who have a fairly good knowledge of the field, kind of like you! If you are not going to construct a proper argument, there is no point of nitpicking on small deds there and there.
And lastly, read my post again. No where did I even begin to mention the 7 hours rule, proposed by Mystery. I simply have stated the concept that he is most known of, the 3 stages of attraction: Attraction, Comfort, and Seduction. These steps are very much essential for a novice to get hang of the game to absolutely get an idea of striking a conversation using an artist's flow. If you don't abide by these principles and do w/e you feel like, then by all means, go right ahead.
On April 04 2012 00:39 sluggaslamoo wrote: Thanks for the quick response
On April 03 2012 14:52 squattincassanova wrote:
On April 03 2012 14:32 sluggaslamoo wrote: For example if you tell her to suck your dick and she does, but then never rings you the next day, isn't this why the 7 hour rule exists and you need to establish enough attraction and comfort within those 7 hours to keep her interested in you following the f-close?
Dude, every girl is different. I have girls who have had sex with me in under 2 hours and I have had girls who NEVER had sex with me with over 20 hours of time! When it comes to pickup, there are never hard set rules. Every scenario is case by case. What I CAN tell you is. If you sleep with a girl, you can bet statistically shes more likely to answer your phone the next day than if you talk to her for 10 minutes at the club, got her number and then walked away. That's a simple no brainer.
The point to the 7 hour rule (its not actually strictly 7 hours you can give or take a couple) is to improve your chances of maintaining a sexual relationship after the first f-close. 7 hours was decided to be around the minimum to average for the best long-term sexual relationships. A lot of player types will have a problem with having a one-night stand and then her never answering your calls again because she feels like a slut or she did something bad. If you do get a call back its probably because you got an STD
Also if she is the kind where you are basically sleeping with her no matter what from the get go (referred to as "fool's mate"), there are other things to worry about. I remember my friend who had sex with a girl in the public toilet, he lost his virginity that day, but the brightly coloured substances that accompanied his urine the following week was not for the faint of heart. I guess yeah there's also that point about safe sex.
Just worry about having "solid game" rather than forcing a time window. There are a lot of outside / external factors that play into how the night goes down that is COMPLETELY out of your control. That's why when an opportunity presents itself, take it. Don't think in your head that it is too quick or too late. When it feels on, keep pushing it.
(hypothetical scenario)
I mean lets say, the girl is into you, her friends disappeared temporarily and she is heavily making out with you in the club and has been hinting to get out of here. Your friend who also happens to have a condo 3 blocks away, has gone out and wont be back for 2 hours and gave you permission to use his pad . At this point, you have been with this girl exactly 1.5 hours. Would you seriously think to yourself: "Its not 7 hours yet, I am going to wait 5.5 more hours before trying to pull". NO! window of opportunities closes and soon you will have nothing.
That is very true, I have had quite a few situations like that before. Obviously if an all or nothing opportunity like that presents itself I would go for it I never really thought about it, but once I read about it I dunno it made perfect sense with my experiences so far.
It also mitigates the friend zoning issue. If you spend much longer than 7 hours comfort building and not escalating into a close, there's a higher chance that she will stop thinking of you as a partner and more as a friend.
On April 04 2012 08:42 shinosai wrote: Some advice to dancing (And I def wouldn't dance like the vid in the "most versatile dance move" but personal prefernece/we)... what is a lot more important than the moves themselves is the ability to dance to the rhythm of the music. Learning dance moves and applying them without calibrating to the rhythm will still make you look terrible.
You might go out and notice a lot of the people that look cool dancing don't have any particular choreography, but they are dancing well enough (this is VERY common with women). Now if you don't know anything about music, every song has a beat that goes 1,2 or 1,2,3,4 or something similar. You hear that beat, and time your movements to coincide with it. Practice listening for that and that's the first step to dancing well. Once you've got that down, yes, there are lots of videos on youtube to show you how to do the fancy stuff like spins.
I like shuffle....it's very simple and easy to learn. Techtonik and electrodance look REALLY cool but they involve a great deal of coordination, takes a lot of practice. Not something you will pick up on a weekend.
Rhythm matters, music type matters. Different types of dances have developed to different kinds of songs. There's a reason. There is a certain flow to music that can be felt - and one can learn to feel it.
Or if you have no rhythm, learn power bboying, girls are all over that shit and for some reason you instantly disqualify yourself, guys are like "well hey hes really tank and super cool, I guess I have no chance against him". Its also really indirect, when you dance up to a girl there's a certain percentage that she will just walk away (even if you are quite good). If you make yourself the center of attention of a bunch of girls without looking like you are "trying to impress them", at least one or two will go straight up to you afterwards and dance with you or straight up kiss you.
Any tips on dealing with girls who are slow to warm up? I'm kinda used to seeing pretty obvious signs when a girls really into me. They tend to get very physical very fast. But this new chick is very subtle about expressing her interest. She laughs a lot during conversations, plays with her hair etc. but doesn't really respond to kino. It almost feels like she really hates to be seen doing anything like that in public.
Still I managed to keep going for more subtle kino, legs touching, accidents, hand on arm etc. she didn't really respond negatively to that so I guess that's something. Also she talks a LOT and I'm definitely the one keeping eye contact more, she doesn't keep eye contact so much. Shyness perhaps? She's asked me where, I live and do I live alone about 3 times, which is a pretty obvious positive sign, but I haven't moved out yet so fml. I just gotta try take it to her place.
2nd date coming up soon, really gotta up my game and try to go for the kiss, all I got was a passionate hug last time. Logistics were all over the place and going from isolation of a bar to a bunch of friends in a club wasn't really the greatest move, but it was the only chance to meet her during that week. We both have pretty full timetables and I never want to lose a girl again to something as dumb as not setting up a date fast enough. I could really feel the effect her friends were having on her in the club, but luckily she never left my side, even if it did bother her.
Conversation went pretty smoothly and I could feel rapport building up. Stuff like making statements instead of asking questions came off really naturally (I guess all that material reading did do something lol).
Fuck, I'm starting to think I fucked up for good. Second date still didn't end in anything. No chances to isolate and I tried to pull her closer for a kiss before she left for her bus, but I don't think she understood and just left while asking me "We're going to meet again, right?" and I told her I'd contact her. We had a pretty good time during the date, with lots of rapport building, but I feel like it's only going to work against me. I'm not acting like a friend at all, but I can see this going there unless something changes fast. Just to make it clear, I see this girl as potential relationship material. How long can it take to get to a simple kiss?
On April 04 2012 15:38 Sotamursu wrote: Fuck, I'm starting to think I fucked up for good. Second date still didn't end in anything. No chances to isolate and I tried to pull her closer for a kiss before she left for her bus, but I don't think she understood and just left while asking me "We're going to meet again, right?" and I told her I'd contact her.
You had a good time and she gave you plenty of IOI's, and it sounds like she very much wants to keep in touch, you didn't fuck up at all. I've had heaps of dates like this, I didn't friend zone them, nor did they have any less impression of me, don't get too worked up about it. You are a step further with her and that's great.
I think she knows exactly what you tried to do, she could have been nervous, or not known what to do, or just not ready yet. You wanna avoid making her feel like a slut or that all you want from her is sex, things like this can often be a freak out moment for them because in the old days, this was a much bigger investment for women than for men (club girls are already prepared ). Just be patient, if you don't completely fuck up and she likes you, the time will come where you have created enough comfort that you will be able to much more easily escalate, don't worry about it too much, remember its no big deal (explained further on).
On April 04 2012 15:38 Sotamursu wrote: Earlier post
Any tips on dealing with girls who are slow to warm up? I'm kinda used to seeing pretty obvious signs when a girls really into me. They tend to get very physical very fast. But this new chick is very subtle about expressing her interest. She laughs a lot during conversations, plays with her hair etc. but doesn't really respond to kino. It almost feels like she really hates to be seen doing anything like that in public.
Still I managed to keep going for more subtle kino, legs touching, accidents, hand on arm etc. she didn't really respond negatively to that so I guess that's something. Also she talks a LOT and I'm definitely the one keeping eye contact more, she doesn't keep eye contact so much. Shyness perhaps? She's asked me where, I live and do I live alone about 3 times, which is a pretty obvious positive sign, but I haven't moved out yet so fml. I just gotta try take it to her place.
2nd date coming up soon, really gotta up my game and try to go for the kiss, all I got was a passionate hug last time. Logistics were all over the place and going from isolation of a bar to a bunch of friends in a club wasn't really the greatest move, but it was the only chance to meet her during that week. We both have pretty full timetables and I never want to lose a girl again to something as dumb as not setting up a date fast enough. I could really feel the effect her friends were having on her in the club, but luckily she never left my side, even if it did bother her.
Conversation went pretty smoothly and I could feel rapport building up. Stuff like making statements instead of asking questions came off really naturally (I guess all that material reading did do something lol).
Fuck, I'm starting to think I fucked up for good. Second date still didn't end in anything. No chances to isolate and I tried to pull her closer for a kiss before she left for her bus, but I don't think she understood and just left while asking me "We're going to meet again, right?" and I told her I'd contact her. We had a pretty good time during the date, with lots of rapport building, but I feel like it's only going to work against me. I'm not acting like a friend at all, but I can see this going there unless something changes fast. Just to make it clear, I see this girl as potential relationship material. How long can it take to get to a simple kiss?
Here's my opinion although I'm no pro maybe it helps coming from an outsider.
I think you are doing fine. I think your biggest problem is your inner-game and its holding you back. The biggest tip I can give you is everything is "its no big deal".
Of course it sounds like I'm being a huge hypocrite with my last story but in fact I don't really care that I stuffed up (I even said it at the end), its was more that I wanted tips to improve as I was just practising, although its also much easier to overthink and create deadness when you are talking to a 10 or a girl you really like T_T.
When its nothing is a big deal, you will be more laidback, and when girls shit-test you or there's dead air, you will be much more able to do something about it and stay congruent and that's a DHV and it creates comfort, its a win-win. And if you can't do that, then do what's called a phase-shift, become someone else, you are now a caveman, you don't give a shit what happens. Takes a bit of practise but it helps.
The thing about shy girls is once you've established enough comfort, compliance comes much easier compared with non-shy girls. I'd much rather a shy girl than a really bitchy girl, one girl I dated, would just shit-test me non-stop and even though I managed to respond well for a couple of weeks, eventually I broke down and became really depressed and started expressing a huge amount of DLV, I would say so many DLV things about myself because my mind wasn't straight, my frame was completely shattered. I went from her inviting me to everything and even giving a subtle hint to come to her flat after a coffee wink wink (which I had to decline due to committments unfortunately), to her not even responding to me and hating me. I never even got angry at her once, but she hated me after she somehow turned me back into AFC mode. You don't need to even "have a frame" when you are talking to a shy girl, you don't even need to worry about being DLV or an idiot that much, comfort building [with shy girls] is the most important and I often sometimes sacrifice DHV in order to do that. (e.g doing something silly to make her laugh, only do this with shy girls, other girls might think you are a retard and disqualify you as a sexual partner [different to disqualifying yourself to guys, which would be good])
Therefore you will need to be a bit more exciting and funny, because otherwise they will bore themselves. The last girl I dated I had sex within 3 days at a park in the car, she was really shy so I gave her heaps of space, I often sat on the other side the room and let her talk to my friends and when I saw she seemed lonely I would get a bit closer, or I'd teach her how to play billiards properly and that's the only time I'd kino at first, I guess also holding her hand in crowded areas so I wouldn't lose her. In order to break a lot of the ice shyness creates, I often did stupid stuff with my friends, we stole a couch that was sitting outside the pub (honestly I think the pub was throwing it out anyway) and carried it all the way to our car, tried to put it in the boot but it didn't fit by a mile. She laughed hysterically though which was good.
I would bring 4 friends and intentionally sit at a place with only 4 seats so she had to sit on my lap, then I'd just talk to my friends as if she wasn't there and I'd only pay attention to her if she did to me. This meant that every time she'd pay attention to me, I'd pay attention to her, if she didn't, she wouldn't get my attention, you can probably tell why I did this.
Eventually after 2 days of going to clubs/bars with friends and her having a really exciting time, I stole her scarf so she would know I would see her one last time, and it made her laugh so yeah. Then I had her alone on the last night (i returned her scarf) and we went to a lake and showed her the ducks (she didn't believe there were ducks at first but I proved it), it was dead silent except for the quacks and there was nobody for miles. We then went back to the car, and talked for what felt like ages (with her eventually lying on me), there was a korean learning book so I picked it up but then the lights went out in the car. I gave her a cough drop, and had one myself, but I finished mine first and so she "offered me hers" and it all went from there.
Of course every girl is different, and maybe this is the complete opposite of what you should be doing. I don't know the girl you are talking to but this was a story about a really shy girl so hopefully it might give you some ideas, you will need to calibrate according to what you know about the girl though obvs.
But overall I think you are doing fine, don't think about rushing things too quickly, when you are not practising but working on a single target that you want, you are better off taking more time and focusing on what you are good at, than doing something stupid and blowing yourself out completely or getting nervous about it.
Girls can sniff incongruence and nervousness from a mile away, which is why you don't wanna use too much new stuff unless you are just practising. A lot of PUA's when they are talking to a 10, they will use 0% new stuff, a 9 - 10% new stuff, an 8 - 20-30%.
@statements instead of questions I dunno how well you know about this so I will start from the beginning. Making statements instead of questions is a really vague idea in itself.
Its more about making open ended statements that forces her to ask questions and invest herself into you more OR its about telling DHV stories. Either is fine, when you have a target focus on which one you are good at, when you are just practising focus on your weakness. Its alright to ask questions, just you don't want to be asking her too many questions because if she bores herself with her own answers, its your fault.
When she invests into you she is less likely to leave you because she doesn't wanna lose the investment, when you tell a DHV story she's more likely to open up to try to invest into you and it makes you a more interesting person in general.
On April 04 2012 08:42 shinosai wrote: but they are dancing well enough (this is VERY common with women).
Actually, most women don't know how to dance, they just try to move in a sexy way. It really pisses me off sometimes when I go to a club and there's an awesome song, awesome vibes, but all the women are just moving like strippers. Then you have men who don't actually do anything but tilt their head up and down.
It's not difficult to dance if you like the song and know your body a little.
On April 04 2012 15:38 Sotamursu wrote: Fuck, I'm starting to think I fucked up for good. Second date still didn't end in anything. No chances to isolate and I tried to pull her closer for a kiss before she left for her bus, but I don't think she understood and just left while asking me "We're going to meet again, right?" and I told her I'd contact her.
You had a good time and she gave you plenty of IOI's, and it sounds like she very much wants to keep in touch, you didn't fuck up at all. I've had heaps of dates like this, I didn't friend zone them, nor did they have any less impression of me, don't get too worked up about it. You are a step further with her and that's great.
I think she knows exactly what you tried to do, she could have been nervous, or not known what to do, or just not ready yet. You wanna avoid making her feel like a slut or that all you want from her is sex, things like this can often be a freak out moment for them because in the old days, this was a much bigger investment for women than for men (club girls are already prepared ). Just be patient, if you don't completely fuck up and she likes you, the time will come where you have created enough comfort that you will be able to much more easily escalate, don't worry about it too much, remember its no big deal (explained further on).
On April 04 2012 15:38 Sotamursu wrote: Earlier post
Any tips on dealing with girls who are slow to warm up? I'm kinda used to seeing pretty obvious signs when a girls really into me. They tend to get very physical very fast. But this new chick is very subtle about expressing her interest. She laughs a lot during conversations, plays with her hair etc. but doesn't really respond to kino. It almost feels like she really hates to be seen doing anything like that in public.
Still I managed to keep going for more subtle kino, legs touching, accidents, hand on arm etc. she didn't really respond negatively to that so I guess that's something. Also she talks a LOT and I'm definitely the one keeping eye contact more, she doesn't keep eye contact so much. Shyness perhaps? She's asked me where, I live and do I live alone about 3 times, which is a pretty obvious positive sign, but I haven't moved out yet so fml. I just gotta try take it to her place.
2nd date coming up soon, really gotta up my game and try to go for the kiss, all I got was a passionate hug last time. Logistics were all over the place and going from isolation of a bar to a bunch of friends in a club wasn't really the greatest move, but it was the only chance to meet her during that week. We both have pretty full timetables and I never want to lose a girl again to something as dumb as not setting up a date fast enough. I could really feel the effect her friends were having on her in the club, but luckily she never left my side, even if it did bother her.
Conversation went pretty smoothly and I could feel rapport building up. Stuff like making statements instead of asking questions came off really naturally (I guess all that material reading did do something lol).
Fuck, I'm starting to think I fucked up for good. Second date still didn't end in anything. No chances to isolate and I tried to pull her closer for a kiss before she left for her bus, but I don't think she understood and just left while asking me "We're going to meet again, right?" and I told her I'd contact her. We had a pretty good time during the date, with lots of rapport building, but I feel like it's only going to work against me. I'm not acting like a friend at all, but I can see this going there unless something changes fast. Just to make it clear, I see this girl as potential relationship material. How long can it take to get to a simple kiss?
Here's my opinion although I'm no pro maybe it helps coming from an outsider.
I think you are doing fine. I think your biggest problem is your inner-game and its holding you back. The biggest tip I can give you is everything is "its no big deal".
Of course it sounds like I'm being a huge hypocrite with my last story but in fact I don't really care that I stuffed up (I even said it at the end), its was more that I wanted tips to improve as I was just practising, although its also much easier to overthink and create deadness when you are talking to a 10 or a girl you really like T_T.
When its nothing is a big deal, you will be more laidback, and when girls shit-test you or there's dead air, you will be much more able to do something about it and stay congruent and that's a DHV and it creates comfort, its a win-win. And if you can't do that, then do what's called a phase-shift, become someone else, you are now a caveman, you don't give a shit what happens. Takes a bit of practise but it helps.
The thing about shy girls is once you've established enough comfort, compliance comes much easier compared with non-shy girls. I'd much rather a shy girl than a really bitchy girl, one girl I dated, would just shit-test me non-stop and even though I managed to respond well for a couple of weeks, eventually I broke down and became really depressed and started expressing a huge amount of DLV, I would say so many DLV things about myself because my mind wasn't straight, my frame was completely shattered. I went from her inviting me to everything and even giving a subtle hint to come to her flat after a coffee wink wink (which I had to decline due to committments unfortunately), to her not even responding to me and hating me. I never even got angry at her once, but she hated me after she somehow turned me back into AFC mode. You don't need to even "have a frame" when you are talking to a shy girl, you don't even need to worry about being DLV or an idiot that much, comfort building [with shy girls] is the most important and I often sometimes sacrifice DHV in order to do that. (e.g doing something silly to make her laugh, only do this with shy girls, other girls might think you are a retard and disqualify you as a sexual partner [different to disqualifying yourself to guys, which would be good])
Therefore you will need to be a bit more exciting and funny, because otherwise they will bore themselves. The last girl I dated I had sex within 3 days at a park in the car, she was really shy so I gave her heaps of space, I often sat on the other side the room and let her talk to my friends and when I saw she seemed lonely I would get a bit closer, or I'd teach her how to play billiards properly and that's the only time I'd kino at first, I guess also holding her hand in crowded areas so I wouldn't lose her. In order to break a lot of the ice shyness creates, I often did stupid stuff with my friends, we stole a couch that was sitting outside the pub (honestly I think the pub was throwing it out anyway) and carried it all the way to our car, tried to put it in the boot but it didn't fit by a mile. She laughed hysterically though which was good.
I would bring 4 friends and intentionally sit at a place with only 4 seats so she had to sit on my lap, then I'd just talk to my friends as if she wasn't there and I'd only pay attention to her if she did to me. This meant that every time she'd pay attention to me, I'd pay attention to her, if she didn't, she wouldn't get my attention, you can probably tell why I did this.
Eventually after 2 days of going to clubs/bars with friends and her having a really exciting time, I stole her scarf so she would know I would see her one last time, and it made her laugh so yeah. Then I had her alone on the last night (i returned her scarf) and we went to a lake and showed her the ducks (she didn't believe there were ducks at first but I proved it), it was dead silent except for the quacks and there was nobody for miles. We then went back to the car, and talked for what felt like ages (with her eventually lying on me), there was a korean learning book so I picked it up but then the lights went out in the car. I gave her a cough drop, and had one myself, but I finished mine first and so she "offered me hers" and it all went from there.
Of course every girl is different, and maybe this is the complete opposite of what you should be doing. I don't know the girl you are talking to but this was a story about a really shy girl so hopefully it might give you some ideas, you will need to calibrate according to what you know about the girl though obvs.
But overall I think you are doing fine, don't think about rushing things too quickly, when you are not practising but working on a single target that you want, you are better off taking more time and focusing on what you are good at, than doing something stupid and blowing yourself out completely or getting nervous about it.
Girls can sniff incongruence and nervousness from a mile away, which is why you don't wanna use too much new stuff unless you are just practising. A lot of PUA's when they are talking to a 10, they will use 0% new stuff, a 9 - 10% new stuff, an 8 - 20-30%.
@statements instead of questions I dunno how well you know about this so I will start from the beginning. Making statements instead of questions is a really vague idea in itself.
Its more about making open ended statements that forces her to ask questions and invest herself into you more OR its about telling DHV stories. Either is fine, when you have a target focus on which one you are good at, when you are just practising focus on your weakness. Its alright to ask questions, just you don't want to be asking her too many questions because if she bores herself with her own answers, its your fault.
When she invests into you she is less likely to leave you because she doesn't wanna lose the investment, when you tell a DHV story she's more likely to open up to try to invest into you and it makes you a more interesting person in general.
That eased my mind. I'm just not really used to "classic" dating and my past experiences have usually been quite spontaneous. A few days before meeting with this girl I was dancing at a club and a girl ditched her friend and started grinding on me, it escalated into a kiss within 5 minutes. I didn't fuck her that night for some reason, I just got a strange vibe from her and felt like leaving her. I'm kinda used to stuff like this, so going slow feels weird.
I haven't been pushing her much, because I sensed quite quickly that pushing too far would immediatly close her up. She told me about her past experiences and some of that was pretty scary stuff (things like drunk/high man basically threatening to rape her in the middle of a street). So I guess I can see why she would be timid.
I guess I'll just build comfort now while trying to slowly escalate. I really doubt I have to show any more value, in fact I've been trying to lower it a bit, because the first impression I gave her maybe showed too much value. It's funny how I feel pretty relaxed with her, but after a date I start thinking about whether it went well or bad.
1. If they are true, it sounds like you are cocky and arrogant. Lets say you had a Lambo and you kept talking about how awesome your car is, you sound like a douche bag. Lets say you're a doctor and you keep talking about how smart you are, you sound the same way. Lets say you have a great body (such as me) and you talk about it, guess what? Girls think you are a self absorbed asshole. I tried trolling like ZYZZ from bodybuilding.com and I failed miserably in terms of pickup.
2. If you are making shit up, she will probably tell that you are full of shit and that you aren't congruent.
You shouldn't be telling long winded stories in the beginning. It should be more about teasing push/pull at the start.
On April 05 2012 02:31 squattincassanova wrote: DHV stories don't usually work well in general.
1. If they are true, it sounds like you are cocky and arrogant. Lets say you had a Lambo and you kept talking about how awesome your car is, you sound like a douche bag. Lets say you're a doctor and you keep talking about how smart you are, you sound the same way. Lets say you have a great body (such as me) and you talk about it, guess what? Girls think you are a self absorbed asshole. I tried trolling like ZYZZ from bodybuilding.com and I failed miserably in terms of pickup.
2. If you are making shit up, she will probably tell that you are full of shit and that you aren't congruent.
You shouldn't be telling long winded stories in the beginning. It should be more about teasing push/pull at the start.
I actually fully disagree with this, you have got DHV stories completely misunderstood.
You tried telling a DHV story and you failed . That's not because DHV stories don't work well, its because you aren't good at telling DHV stories. Its like someone saying some good build sucks because you tried it and you lost, and then when you look at the replay you didn't make enough workers, your macro was bad, and your timing was bad.
Good DHV stories aren't about bragging, they are about talking about experiences and in-directly showing how you would react in certain situations (you are in control) or how you analyse certain things (you are smart) or your achievements (your ability) and indirectly showing DHV.
Achievement/Success Type Story: Lets say you wanna do a DHV story about how you got your body, you should start from the beginning about how you got to where you are, all the challenges you had to overcome and how you overcame them. When you were a child your hero was Arnold Schwarzenegger, or you wanted to become an action movie star originally. You loved die hard, etc. You started working out but you only got 5 pounds a year, it was really frustrating, you then met this person at the gym and he was a total douche and told me I would never make it, but you were going to prove him wrong.
You then found a magazine and it said you needed to eat 5 times more than you usually do. It was really hard in the beginning, but you forced yourself, you love challenges, and you know you had the mind to do it. Now I put on 30 pounds a year and still going, oh but then I hit a plateau where no matter how hard I worked, I never got bigger. Then I realised I had to do this and that, and I worked even harder. Now I just love working out, and decided to put my mind on engineering because I need my daily bread but I still have that actor career in the back of my mind. etc etc etc.
You can probably do a lot better than this, but the main point is it gets the point across without sounding like bragging and shows you are a motivated person who can overcome any challenge, its just an example that I just made up on the spot. Remember, make your story interesting, its a story, not a fact sheet.
Preselection/Personality example For example, you talk about how you got a lift with your ex-girlfriend and you were talking about <insert long intersting conversation here> but suddenly she got distracted and fell down a ditch, and you said <insert quote here that showed you were a calm and in control person>, you decided to calm your girlfriend down and sleep in the car and wait till sunrise and then think of something. Then when you woke up a ute came by and pulled you out and you were fine.
This is a DHV story because it shows you are pre-selected by your ex-girlfriend, and you are calm under pressure and know that you can handle problems well DHV, she feels safe knowing that if she were in the same situation she can rely on you.
----
Not the best examples really but I was just making them up as I went, you need to practise telling stories and make them more and more interesting, its something I'm not very good at it either, the reason I know it works is that my friend is an absolute natural at it, that's his niche when it comes to picking up. Its my weakness and so I focus on practising it not only with randoms, but with friends, guys and girls.
Now if you aren't outgoing in general and not a lot of shit happens around you, you can fake it till you make it. Generally these kinds of stories will be more abstract, so you aren't exactly faking it, I mean you can do a full fake experience story, but its much easier if you tell an abstract story instead in this situation. These are not stories about your life, they're more like gambits.
There's also specific words you should try to use, notice how a lot of women products are always, natural, organic, real, loved, nurtured, energy, vibrant. Notice how guys products for the same thing are completely different, V8 cleaning power technology, ultimate skin regeneration technology, scientifically proven to, etc. I always look at female marketing like products and advertisements to see what kind of words they like hearing, they are words or concepts you should try and work around.
If you are a boring old engineering student you can still make it very exciting, provided you work on your story. Talk about some engineering shit you know about music, but relate it to how it gives energy to people, or how it changes peoples outlook on life, or if you really need to be technical, talk about how "MP3's are like nature" (find the mystery gambit on it, I don't really care what you think about the person, the way he relates MP3's to nature and makes it interesting is really effing good).
Hell I've done a gambit on pro-starcraft before, it wasn't very good, and if it was me now it would be a lot different and a lot better, she became very interested in me afterwards nevertheless. If I were to do it now, I would start from the beginning, and talk about the stories of Boxer and Oov, how Boxer cried when he lost and never got his golden mouse, how Savior was the bonjwa but Bisu who was a total ladies man, crushed him, and Savior fell in a neverending spiral of doom eventually turning into match fixing with underworld gangs and eventually going to jail. Even in the court proceedings he tried to maintain his integrity to the last minute, when the judge asked for his profession, he stood steadfast and exclaimed "I am a progamer". This last part is important because it makes what your friend thought was really nerdy and full of "nice-guys" into something bad-ass, cmon, no matter what the guys previous profession was, he could have been a professional paperclip maker, but if he was in organised crime with underworld gangs and went to jail, that's bad ass. Then if you do get into a relationship, you have no qualms about introducing the fact that you play a lot of starcraft
If you start from the beginning and have a strong foundation, you can make a really good story, no matter what the subject is. Remember seeing the blurb of a manga you thought was stupid, and it turned out to be really good, its because it had nothing to do with the subject matter, its the author that makes a good story.
Sorry I didn't read your whole thing. But when you have value, it comes out naturally. She will sense your value. I don't have to tell a gym DHV stories for the girl to get a clue that I am into fitness and that I am in shape.
Now when you consciously TRY to tell DHV stories, what exactly are you trying to do? You're being reactive. Its different then when you just tell stories about yourself and she picks up the subtleties. I'm not in the set planning my "next DHV story".
Why does squattincassanova keep giving advice in this thread as if he's some sort of expert PUA? Secondly, why am I seeing constant reposts in the funny pics thread as well as this thread - you don't have to try to prove yourself to us. I know you probably had some sort of Asian-dad meme type daddy complex growing up who you always needed to impress but it just comes across.. Exactly like this:
DHV stories don't usually work well in general.
1. If they are true, it sounds like you are cocky and arrogant. Lets say you had a Lambo and you kept talking about how awesome your car is, you sound like a douche bag. Lets say you're a doctor and you keep talking about how smart you are, you sound the same way. Lets say you have a great body (such as me) and you talk about it, guess what? Girls think you are a self absorbed asshole. I tried trolling like ZYZZ from bodybuilding.com and I failed miserably in terms of pickup.
2. If you are making shit up, she will probably tell that you are full of shit and that you aren't congruent.
You shouldn't be telling long winded stories in the beginning. It should be more about teasing push/pull at the start.
Sorry I didn't read your whole thing. But when you have value, it comes out naturally. She will sense your value. I don't have to tell a gym DHV stories for the girl to get a clue that I am into fitness and that I am in shape.
Now when you consciously TRY to tell DHV stories, what exactly are you trying to do? You're being reactive. Its different then when you just tell stories about yourself and she picks up the subtleties. I'm not in the set planning my "next DHV story".
I've always found it interesting. Women tend to respond to me when I am playfully "mean" to them, whether it jokingly poking fun at them. The key of course is to tell them with your facial expressions (smile, use your eyes) that you're not being serious.
"Oh hey, "blank" came here so she doesn't have to do any work
Or refuse to give them something they want.
Women tend not to like men to who try cater to them, who give them what they want.
Unfortunately, while I think I'm good at flirting I'm awful at actually reading women. I can tell when I get a response from them where they start returning the favor, but I'm always so unsure of what that actually means.
As of right now I work with some attractive women, one in particular that seems to respond well to my veiled attempts at flirtation. The only problem is, is that she has the same sarcastic kind of tone with lots of guys we work with, but I think I'm the only one who gives it back to her. I'm just not sure how to initiate anything besides "Oh yeah I work with him, he's nice".
I'm around her at most 30 seconds maybe once or twice a day when we both work at the same time (3-4 times a week) and in all cases there's always other people around, who are oftentimes trying to engage into any conversation I try to make. She's also sent me a friend request on Facebook, so I guess she's at least seen a picture with my name above it, recognized me, and decided "hey this guy isn't a total douchebag".
Sorry if it's here but I didn't see it, but what's a good book to read to understand how these methods work and how to learn them? I see some posts mentioning specific techniques, but what's a good place to start for some practical, down-to-earth advice on enjoying and suceeding this part of one's life?
On April 05 2012 18:32 Ashakyre wrote: Sorry if it's here but I didn't see it, but what's a good book to read to understand how these methods work and how to learn them? I see some posts mentioning specific techniques, but what's a good place to start for some practical, down-to-earth advice on enjoying and suceeding this part of one's life?
I hear that The Game by Neil Strauss is pretty good.
I have the book, but I have yet to start reading it.
On April 05 2012 18:32 Ashakyre wrote: Sorry if it's here but I didn't see it, but what's a good book to read to understand how these methods work and how to learn them? I see some posts mentioning specific techniques, but what's a good place to start for some practical, down-to-earth advice on enjoying and suceeding this part of one's life?
I hear that The Game by Neil Strauss is pretty good.
I have the book, but I have yet to start reading it.
Thanks, but isn't that mostly autobiographical information, correct?
On April 05 2012 18:32 Ashakyre wrote: Sorry if it's here but I didn't see it, but what's a good book to read to understand how these methods work and how to learn them? I see some posts mentioning specific techniques, but what's a good place to start for some practical, down-to-earth advice on enjoying and suceeding this part of one's life?
On April 05 2012 18:32 Ashakyre wrote: Sorry if it's here but I didn't see it, but what's a good book to read to understand how these methods work and how to learn them? I see some posts mentioning specific techniques, but what's a good place to start for some practical, down-to-earth advice on enjoying and suceeding this part of one's life?
On April 05 2012 16:40 squattincassanova wrote: Sorry I didn't read your whole thing. But when you have value, it comes out naturally. She will sense your value. I don't have to tell a gym DHV stories for the girl to get a clue that I am into fitness and that I am in shape.
Now when you consciously TRY to tell DHV stories, what exactly are you trying to do? You're being reactive. Its different then when you just tell stories about yourself and she picks up the subtleties. I'm not in the set planning my "next DHV story".
DHV stories and gambits are primarily about being interesting. It is more effective to keep her captivated really good story (and subtly hinting your intelligence, personality, wit, value), than having a 2 way conversation, why? Because if you ask a question and she bores herself and decides to go and talk to her friends, its your fault that you bored her.
However doing this is much much harder than having a 2 way conversation. Its quite easy to small talk and get to really know her and get her to know a lot about yourself and DHV that way. Telling stories takes lots and lots of practise, and you won't be that successful in the beginning, but it yields better results in the long run. Think of it as practising macro builds instead of cheese builds to go up the ranks. One of them is easy to execute and will get you far in the beginning, but the macro build will make you a much better player in the long run.
Doing standard conversation and just talking as if you were talking normally also means that you are stuck in a narrow range as a person and puts extra pressure on yourself and will require high maintenance. You have to make sure that you are actually a really interesting person, you have to go out all the time and gain experiences, you have to have an interesting job, you have to watch movies you don't like to relate, you have to have ex-girlfriends, so then you can talk about it later. Because when she asks what you did on the weekend, you don't want to get stuck and say, oh um, yeah not much how about you?.
With a gambit (you might have missed that section), you can be a boring old engineering student with no life and still be the most interesting guy she's ever met.
I know you don't like Mystery, but I suggest you look how he turns a what would otherwise be a female repellent topic "lossy compression" into a really interesting story as a really good example of constructing a gambit.
On April 05 2012 17:46 zEnVy wrote: I've always found it interesting. Women tend to respond to me when I am playfully "mean" to them, whether it jokingly poking fun at them. The key of course is to tell them with your facial expressions (smile, use your eyes) that you're not being serious.
"Oh hey, "blank" came here so she doesn't have to do any work
Or refuse to give them something they want.
Women tend not to like men to who try cater to them, who give them what they want.
Unfortunately, while I think I'm good at flirting I'm awful at actually reading women. I can tell when I get a response from them where they start returning the favor, but I'm always so unsure of what that actually means.
As of right now I work with some attractive women, one in particular that seems to respond well to my veiled attempts at flirtation. The only problem is, is that she has the same sarcastic kind of tone with lots of guys we work with, but I think I'm the only one who gives it back to her. I'm just not sure how to initiate anything besides "Oh yeah I work with him, he's nice".
I'm around her at most 30 seconds maybe once or twice a day when we both work at the same time (3-4 times a week) and in all cases there's always other people around, who are oftentimes trying to engage into any conversation I try to make. She's also sent me a friend request on Facebook, so I guess she's at least seen a picture with my name above it, recognized me, and decided "hey this guy isn't a total douchebag".
Playful teases are referred to as "negs" and have been drilled down into almost a science
Negs are typically used as openers and the first stages of interaction with more attractive girls. The point to negs is to imply that you are getting laid all the time, because no one would talk to a hot girl like her how you are at the moment unless they already have an armada of girls waiting at home for them.
You can break down any tension (her anti-slut defense because she has realised "you are not trying to hit on her"), disqualified yourself to guys trying to hit on her (because who would act like that unless you "really were hitting on her"), and demonstrated some value in doing so. It also has the effect of lowering her self esteem, which is what it is also used for in very tough situations where that is your only choice to get her to interact with you, so you have to be careful because you can also blow yourself out, with her thinking she's not good enough for you and giving up.
Negs are probably the biggest reason why PUA gets a bad rap, and because most people do it really badly. I've seen some people try use negs and I would just cringe. However you have to note that there are many different types of negs, not just the "bad ones", the teasing ones that you do also have their own category (known as Tease Neg, very original ).
People say the hotter they are, the more you should neg but I would define it more precisely out of my own experience so far.
The bigger the difference in attraction between you two, plus any subtle IOI's (eye-contact, smiling, etc) before the approach, plus the % of her getting hit on caused by the environment they are currently in, what kind of group they are in, add it all up logically and it calibrates how many and how strong your negs should be. I don't know what it should be exactly, I just feel its like this and I'm currently in the process of trying to figure that out better.
As I've said I'm not an expert this is just my opinion here, but the reason I don't like the shallower version of calibrating your negging purely based on their looks is that context makes a very big difference in how they will react. If they are attracted to you already, and you are not in a club, even if they are a 10, you can blow yourself out by negging, even if you were playing by the old rules. When really you would have been better off opening with a "warmer" approach, into a gambit, and maybe doing some Tease Negs, instead of opening with a Sniper Neg.
EPT
