EPTIs it illegal to dance ? - Page 15
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One more "fuck the police" from page 8 and onward is going to have an all expense paid weekend to E-Disneyland. It adds nothing to the discussion and as such please refrain from making such posts in this topic and the boards in general. | ||
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aCePikNik
United States69 Posts
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SpeaKEaSY
United States1070 Posts
On May 30 2011 00:17 Ocedic wrote: Except their activity of choice isn't to dance. They are career activists. It's not like the government shut down a production of Black Swan. And if the citizens went through the due process and were denied, then sure. But that's adding a hypothetical situation to a real situation that was a counterpoint to your original hypothetical situation. And you keep talking about rights and fighting for them: do you even know what rights the protesters in the video were actually fighting for? As in, an actual right being denied to people who want that right rather than just protesting for the sake of it? Because that's a key difference between all these historical heroes you love to throw around and the hypothetical situations you contrive: Rosa Parks wanted a place to sit, she was tired. Malcolm X wanted equal rights for blacks. Ghandi wanted to liberate his country from colonization. We want to play StarCraft. Career protesters protest to... protest? (Keeping in mind there are legal ways to protest) Do you know what they were actually fighting for? Do you know what YOU'RE arguing about? Because when it suits you, you reduce it to "they were just doing a silly dance, it wasn't even worth fighting over" Then when it's pointed out that their silly dance wasn't hurting anyone, you make it "they were staging a disruptive protest! they must submit to authoritay!" and then when it's pointed out that their has been historical precedent for civil disobedience in order to defend civil rights, you go back to "but it's just silly dancing!" Geez, make up your mind. They were dancing because they believed a group was wrongfully arrested for doing the same thing, which violates freedom of assembly and free expression. Watch, you're going to reduce the argument to "it's just silly dancing!" again. | ||
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ander
Canada403 Posts
Well, these guys now get ticketed because in the eyes of the police, dancing on the sidewalk is a distraction to drivers. There's more than one instance of this guys. Edit: here he is: Dancing Dan: | ||
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
On May 30 2011 00:27 SpeaKEaSY wrote: Do you know what they were actually fighting for? Do you know what YOU'RE arguing about? Because when it suits you, you reduce it to "they were just doing a silly dance, it wasn't even worth fighting over" Then when it's pointed out that their silly dance wasn't hurting anyone, you make it "they were staging a disruptive protest! they must submit to authoritay!" and then when it's pointed out that their has been historical precedent for civil disobedience in order to defend civil rights, you go back to "but it's just silly dancing!" Geez, make up your mind. They were dancing because they believed a group was wrongfully arrested for doing the same thing, which violates freedom of assembly and free expression. Watch, you're going to reduce the argument to "it's just silly dancing!" again. I don't think anyone in this thread, including myself, has ever said anything about 'silly dancing.' You sure love strawman arguments and logical fallacies in general. In fact, you didn't address my points at all. I didn't mention the word 'dance' at all, I talked about PROTESTING. I think I'm quite clear in what I'm arguing for. Seems like you're the only here arguing for the sake of arguing. | ||
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Gnax
Sweden490 Posts
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On May 29 2011 22:14 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: There is one reason and one reason only why they are dancing. This reason is to provoke the cops that are there. Cops who by the way had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of any law. They are not there because they feel like dancing they are there to troll the police that show up. To see if they can get themselves some footage of being arrested for dancing, or to see whether they can get away with breaking the law while the police watches them do it. These cops work for a minimum wage, probably had to study hard to pass the cop exam and ended up knowing only 50% of basic law and probably <1% of total law. If you want geniuses in blue who can drill up the lawbook and do everything perfectly then go ahead and pay your cops $300k/year. They were sent there to do their job, which is a) not to allow dancing and b) not to allow provocation. What you need to be complaining about is who you vote for that makes laws you disagree with. My question is: in which country does an activist group can actually win a case against the state and change a law that is not legal in regard to the constitution ? None. As some other guy said, the legal system in modern country is such a deep and complex thing that taking a case to justice is like waiting twenty years for a response. There is a reason if most if not all the modern activist decide to use the media and that kind of trollesque acts to defend an idea: it's the best way to do it, the most effective way to do it. Like voting for a guy actually do anything, in most country that kind of activists are not represented, they don't recognize themselve in any party and they defend value that no one defend in the electoral course.... I mean, in a perfect world you would be 100% true, but damna perfect world, with a truly democratic system would have no use for activism. It's just like Darkplasmaball, get real, see the world you live in. If you think voting or going to justice can change anything for that kind of business, then you are the trolls... | ||
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nemo14
United States425 Posts
On May 30 2011 00:08 Alejandrisha wrote: bunch of stupid trolls just egging on a bunch of cops. they should be arrested for being such douches Thank GOD there is someone else here who shares my views on the situation. Even if they did have the right to dance at that memorial, they should not exercise it. What purpose would doing so serve other than just acting like an offensive jackass because you think it's funny and are desperate for attention? | ||
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ChaoticBlack
Australia288 Posts
On May 30 2011 00:32 Gnax wrote: Good job by those police officers. If I was there I would point and laugh at the guy getting wrestled down violently for being an idiot. They tried to mock the police and got humiliated, not only in front of a crowd but on TV. Absolutely perfect. Yeh, I think the cop had more self control than I would have. I don't agree with the others saying its him being macho. Adam was being an arsehole thinking he is an awesome revolutionary by resiting arrests and stressing the police officers who don't get paid enough. Its hard to resist beating the crap out of someone who acts like that. There are better ways to pass their message and this is obviously an attention stunt and they don't give a crap about the law. | ||
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SaLaYa
United States363 Posts
Sometimes it doesn't seem fair, it makes you mad at first, but you have to see what they're doing: Manipulating the actions of the police, putting them in a situation that they're probably not trained for, making them look like lawless crooks. Clearly they had an agenda and fulfilled it. They wanted to get arrested and yell and shout. Neither party is in the clear here. Just because you have rights doesn't mean you can abuse them. RIGHTS. Not privileges. RIGHTS. | ||
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how2TL
1197 Posts
On May 30 2011 00:30 Ocedic wrote: I don't think anyone in this thread, including myself, has ever said anything about 'silly dancing.' You sure love strawman arguments and logical fallacies in general. In fact, you didn't address my points at all. I didn't mention the word 'dance' at all, I talked about PROTESTING. I think I'm quite clear in what I'm arguing for. Seems like you're the only here arguing for the sake of arguing. The right to move your body to a rhythm without interfering (by being obscene or something) in anyone else's life. I'm not sure you've presented a good argument for why some things aren't "serious" enough to protest. Seems like the slippery slope is going the other way. | ||
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how2TL
1197 Posts
On May 30 2011 00:41 GlocKomA wrote: While they're right that they're having their rights violated, nobody in the right mind is going to say that they weren't disturbing the peace by egging on a group of police officers. Sometimes it doesn't seem fair, it makes you mad at first, but you have to see what they're doing: Manipulating the actions of the police, putting them in a situation that they're probably not trained for, making them look like lawless crooks. Clearly they had an agenda and fulfilled it. They wanted to get arrested and yell and shout. Neither party is in the clear here. Just because you have rights doesn't mean you can abuse them. RIGHTS. Not privileges. RIGHTS. Actually the only guy to yell and shout was the hippie-looking one, as far as I saw. If the park police don't know how to act accordingly because they weren't trained for the situation, I'm not sure how that's the protestors' fault. There's nothing wrong with having an agenda. Having one doesn't mean you're "not in the clear" anymore. | ||
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mmp
United States2130 Posts
On May 30 2011 00:05 Ghostcom wrote: Such is democracy - which you could claim is simply a tyranny by majority, but it is VERY seldom for a tyranny to let you have a direct impact upon the system and it's rules. This has nothing to do with tyranny. If you wanted to change every single rule someone found silly you would end up with anarchy and I don't think it takes a genious to see how terrible that is (examplified by more or less EVERY SINGLE major disaster where law-enforcement is unable to function). Mass arrest is a powerful tool for democratic change, and entirely appropriate in this case. The activists plan on wearing headphones and nodding quietly to music -- if this isn't protected speech in a public space then we (Americans) should be concerned. The "legitimacy" of the arrests comes from the fact that by presenting a coherent political message, the action of the participants constitutes a public demonstration, which requires a permit in America. At the most extreme, dance as a form of political speech is as personal as wearing an offensive T-shirt in public, which is protected speech and permissible in any public space (you can wear a KKK uniform in public if you want to, rare exceptions apply to "hoods at nighttime" as related to gang/terrorist activity, but there is a clear speech-unrelated purpose to such restrictions in regards to violent crime). The court order here is unconstitutional for its excessive vagueness, indistinguishableness from non-disruptive speech of the same form, and the personal non-disruptive nature of the speech. It's as ridiculous as outlawing laughing, coughing, or scratching your head with political motive -- it's protected speech. Public demonstration permits exist with the lawful intent of (1) arranging for safety of the participants and bystanders and (2) ensuring that sidewalks, traffic, and other business are not disrupted and sufficient time is allowed to place detours and adjust for the disturbance in an orderly fashion. One would have to declare that the actions of the unlicensed demonstration were sufficiently disruptive as to necessitate a permit. In my opinion, permits are typically used by law enforcement as a blanket way of keeping tabs on all "licensed" agitation and reserving a blank check to suppress any other distasteful activity (like the scores of people that demonstrate in front of the White House or Congress on a daily basis and are promptly shooed away). | ||
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johanngrunt
Hong Kong1555 Posts
On May 30 2011 00:34 WhiteDog wrote: My question is: in which country does an activist group can actually win a case against the state and change a law that is not legal in regard to the constitution ? None. As some other guy said, the legal system in modern country is such a deep and complex thing that taking a case to justice is like waiting twenty years for a response. There is a reason if most if not all the modern activist decide to use the media and that kind of trollesque acts to defend an idea: it's the best way to do it, the most effective way to do it. Like voting for a guy actually do anything, in most country that kind of activists are not represented, they don't recognize themselve in any party and they defend value that no one defend in the electoral course.... I mean, in a perfect world you would be 100% true, but damna perfect world, with a truly democratic system would have no use for activism. It's just like Darkplasmaball, get real, see the world you live in. If you think voting or going to justice can change anything for that kind of business, then you are the trolls... You're French. I can see where you're coming from. However, making a court case and having the media cover it grants equal exposure to your cause, and doesn't involve breaking any laws and making you look like fools. Don't you think you can accomplish more outside of prison instead of in prison? Not everyone can be Gandhi. And activists are activists because most people are apathetic, which is kinda bad but it's the reality. No one truly gives a shit, and public opinion is more likely to turn against you if you end up looking like the foolish "hippie" type in the video. You're only hurting your cause if you try antics like that. | ||
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how2TL
1197 Posts
On May 30 2011 00:35 nemo14 wrote: Thank GOD there is someone else here who shares my views on the situation. Even if they did have the right to dance at that memorial, they should not exercise it. What purpose would doing so serve other than just acting like an offensive jackass because you think it's funny and are desperate for attention? You... do understand what a right is, correct? If you have a right, you should be free to exercise it, no matter what. | ||
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Garnuba
24 Posts
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ChaoticBlack
Australia288 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + We're now living in a filthy "Pig-State" of Fascist traitors to liberty. EVERY American needs to see this disgusting display of blatant abuse of "Pig-Power" gone rampant! For all law enforcement: this kind of criminal violation of Constitutional rights of Americans is going to endanger the lives of ALL law enforcement agents. The American people will only take this for so long and they will rise-up. To you filthy Pigs that love power ... REMEMBER filth; we out-number you millions-to-one!!!! + Show Spoiler + oh my god im so fucking ashamed of my stupid country after seeing this. but i guess thats what they want, people to speak out against this dancing epidemic going on all over the world so they can put their name on a list and bust them for dancing or walking with swagger. so in the famous words of some of the best activists youve never heard of, who helped me form an opinion of law un-enforcment officers at an early age, i must say 'FUCK THE POLICE' - NWA | ||
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SaLaYa
United States363 Posts
On May 30 2011 00:44 how2TL wrote: Actually the only guy to yell and shout was the hippie-looking one, as far as I saw. If the park police don't know how to act accordingly because they weren't trained for the situation, I'm not sure how that's the protestors' fault. There's nothing wrong with having an agenda. Having one doesn't mean you're "not in the clear" anymore. Okay, but you can see that they were defiantly looking to get attention from the police and then aggravate them. I don't think they have anyone to blame but themselves for getting arrested. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On May 30 2011 00:45 johanngrunt wrote: You're French. I can see where you're coming from. However, making a court case and having the media cover it grants equal exposure to your cause, and doesn't involve breaking any laws and making you look like fools. Don't you think you can accomplish more outside of prison instead of in prison? Not everyone can be Gandhi. And activists are activists because most people are apathetic, which is kinda bad but it's the reality. No one truly gives a shit, and public opinion is more likely to turn against you if you end up looking like the foolish "hippie" type in the video. You're only hurting your cause if you try antics like that. Yeah I agree that me thinking that and me being French are connected since my country is... well. But I'm pretty sure we would not be talking about those random dancers if they would not have been arrested. This prove that this was the best way to publicize their causes. | ||
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
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Termit
Sweden3466 Posts
Some guys have all the money in the world Some guys wear fancy shoes and pants I’m not one of those guys but baby I can Dance, dance, dance, dance, | ||
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