EPTEG launch $10,000 Master's Cup Series League - Page 7
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HEROwithNOlegacy
United States850 Posts
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SiguR
Canada2039 Posts
It might sound weird, but if liquid decides to keep it's players in korea for the GSL while the NA/EU scene is expanding, can they reasonably expect to have concessions made for them in NA/EU events that put others at a disadvantage (others who don't have the benefit of competing in korean events)? I wouldn't think so. Idra is back in north america because it seemed to him or his team that it would be more worthwhile to have no obstacles when competing in the foreign scene. It seems that some liquid members decided differently, and this is one of those obstacles. Either way it's unfortunate, but I don't think event organizers are doing anything too crazy. | ||
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DarkRise
1644 Posts
On May 02 2011 11:57 StUfF wrote: In the end this is a competition. The point is to win. Team Liquid are big names, they would bring alot of viewers into this. Why is it unreasonable to ask for fair conditions of play? EG said no, so Liquid said no - Tyler is obviously venting his frustrations and he has every right to. Nothing he is saying is false. Is alternating servers more fair? Yes - you don't deny this at all, what more can be said? So you're saying that everything should favor TL's condition just because they are big? That's unfair to the other 7 teams then. Server is not the only issue, schedule and availability of players. I understand if they are other Korean teams but that's not the case. It's majority, conditions favored most of the teams and that's how democracy works. I'm looking forward to this. | ||
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Reptarem
155 Posts
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Atlas_550
United States180 Posts
Can I get my hopes and dreams up that one day I will be on a top team and make it into a league as such? (Or that my clan will turn into a top team?) | ||
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Goibon
New Zealand8185 Posts
Excited about this tournament. Not often i get to see some 2v2 action. Was a bit bummed there wasn't a 3v3 or 4v4, but that's just me asking for a guilty pleasure. oh snap Obama announcement now | ||
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StUfF
Australia1437 Posts
On May 02 2011 12:23 Xeris wrote: I think it's a dangerous assumption, Tyler, to say that the method TSL had is the "best known solution." In a BO3, if you play one game on NA and one game on KR, what happens when the series goes to a 3rd game? Which server do you play on? I believe the TSL's solution to this was "the players with a higher seed," which might work for the TSL's tournament format, but not so much in a clan-war type scenario. How do you determine 'seeding' in this case? The team with the better record? That seems way too situational to be effective, it's like favoring the team that's already favored, in essence. In all honesty, there is no best solution for this problem until Blizzard implements LAN latency/cross-server play. I will add however, that Sen plays from Taiwan and has never once complained about lag. He played almost all the GCPL matches, NASL, FXOpen tournaments, etc. He doesn't complain about the lag, he plays his game and performs well most of the time. He also plays regularly on the NA ladder. Maybe, players in Korea should practice on the NA server to get used to the conditions of playing there if they know they will be playing in tournaments on the NA server. Ultimately, there is no best solution, as I said. There has to be some give. If Liquid is really the only team that would be adversely affected by this rule, then it would be a bit unfair to inconvenience 7 teams to appease 1 team. If Liquid couldn't bend to the requirements, it isn't really fair to turn around and blame the organizers. Notice Tyler didn't say "best" solution but "best known". Can you provide a better known solution? The implementation of this solution in the TSL shows that it can work, and nobody else has come up with anything better. The root of Tyler's frustration I think is because this is his livelihood, it may be entertainment for the watchers but this game is how he makes a living. If you played competitive sports and the competition didn't try their best to provide a "fair" environment I would be pissed off as well. EG chose convenience over fairness. Tyler is frustrated and Team`Liquid have abstained because of this. | ||
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StUfF
Australia1437 Posts
On May 02 2011 12:30 DarkRise wrote: So you're saying that everything should favor TL's condition just because they are big? That's unfair to the other 7 teams then. Server is not the only issue, schedule and availability of players. I understand if they are other Korean teams but that's not the case. It's majority, conditions favored most of the teams and that's how democracy works. I'm looking forward to this. Why does it "favor" their condition? All it does it try to make it as fair as possible for all teams. If anything it hugely favors their competition if they played under these non-switching rules. | ||
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KiF1rE
United States964 Posts
but should be interesting to see a team league though and the format should provide some entertainment. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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Skipton
United States707 Posts
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Thermia
United States866 Posts
On May 02 2011 12:37 StUfF wrote: Notice Tyler didn't say "best" solution but "best known". Can you provide a better known solution? The implementation of this solution in the TSL shows that it can work, and nobody else has come up with anything better. The root of Tyler's frustration I think is because this is his livelihood, it may be entertainment for the watchers but this game is how he makes a living. If you played competitive sports and the competition didn't try their best to provide a "fair" environment I would be pissed off as well. EG chose convenience over fairness. Tyler is frustrated and Team`Liquid have abstained because of this. Except that it's not fair to the other seven teams in the league when they have to all go out of their way to accommodate liquid. As Xeris said, server switching in BoX formats is okay when there are seeds, but in a team league there isn't really a good/fair way to decide who gets server choice in a deciding game, should it come to that. Ergo, if liquid wants to participate in the league, they would have to be inconvenienced (one team, and really only one player as they could field tlo, ret, and tyler from NA/EU who would all be fine) instead of being unfair to the other seven teams. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
We offered to provide accounts, we have around 30 accounts total across the 3 servers, but were told no. Saying "well if the other team agrees you can play on KR" is stupid, you cant rely on your opponents feeling charitable in a competition... At some point you gotta take some kind of stand. Theres relocalization tools, we would be providing all the accounts, what exactly is the inconvenience? On May 02 2011 12:45 Thermia wrote: Except that it's not fair to the other seven teams in the league when they have to all go out of their way to accommodate liquid. As Xeris said, server switching in BoX formats is okay when there are seeds, but in a team league there isn't really a good/fair way to decide who gets server choice in a deciding game, should it come to that. Ergo, if liquid wants to participate in the league, they would have to be inconvenienced (one team, and really only one player as they could field tlo, ret, and tyler from NA/EU who would all be fine) instead of being unfair to the other seven teams. Flip a fucking coin. We are not asking for much at all, every european player in this tournament is already server switching to the US, every US player in it likely already has EU installed because of how many tournaments are played on there. On May 02 2011 12:41 iNcontroL wrote: btw does this mean TL won't play in any more leagues/tourneys where they can't play some games on KR server? Or just this one? Teamleagues, no. Individual leagues, up to player. | ||
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Reptarem
155 Posts
On May 02 2011 12:37 StUfF wrote: Notice Tyler didn't say "best" solution but "best known". Can you provide a better known solution? The implementation of this solution in the TSL shows that it can work, and nobody else has come up with anything better. The root of Tyler's frustration I think is because this is his livelihood, it may be entertainment for the watchers but this game is how he makes a living. If you played competitive sports and the competition didn't try their best to provide a "fair" environment I would be pissed off as well. EG chose convenience over fairness. Tyler is frustrated and Team`Liquid have abstained because of this. I think it's a fair decision by EG, seeing as they're a North American team sponsoring a North American Tourney. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On May 02 2011 12:41 iNcontroL wrote: btw does this mean TL won't play in any more leagues/tourneys where they can't play some games on KR server? Or just this one? In all fairness, maybe not only Team Liquid is frowning their eyebrows over this. The other 4 European teams also have a major disadvantage having to play EVERY game on the US server. Why can't there be a NA-EU-NA-EU-NA server change? Does this really have to result in all tournaments being played on the "home" server? I find that kinda stupid... | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On May 02 2011 12:28 SiguR wrote: Isn't it possible to say that having a disadvantage in NA/EU online events is the price to be paid for being able to participate in korean "offline" events like the GSL? It might sound weird, but if liquid decides to keep it's players in korea for the GSL while the NA/EU scene is expanding, can they reasonably expect to have concessions made for them in NA/EU events that put others at a disadvantage (others who don't have the benefit of competing in korean events)? I wouldn't think so. Idra is back in north america because it seemed to him or his team that it would be more worthwhile to have no obstacles when competing in the foreign scene. It seems that some liquid members decided differently, and this is one of those obstacles. Either way it's unfortunate, but I don't think event organizers are doing anything too crazy. Are you fucking kidding me? Yes I can compete in Korean events, but you dont see me fucking competing in 99% of the European events so Im already paying a prize. What you are saying makes 0 sense. | ||
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StUfF
Australia1437 Posts
On May 02 2011 12:45 Thermia wrote: Except that it's not fair to the other seven teams in the league when they have to all go out of their way to accommodate liquid. As Xeris said, server switching in BoX formats is okay when there are seeds, but in a team league there isn't really a good/fair way to decide who gets server choice in a deciding game, should it come to that. Ergo, if liquid wants to participate in the league, they would have to be inconvenienced (one team, and really only one player as they could field tlo, ret, and tyler from NA/EU who would all be fine) instead of being unfair to the other seven teams. You make it sound like logging onto another server a herculean feat of effort. HINT: Most pros already have access and have played on other servers It would be UNFAIR for KR players to play on overseas server. It would be INCONVENIENT for EU/NA players to alternate servers. There's a huge difference. TL's introduces fairness for convenience, it doesn't disadvantage the EU/NA players in anyway. | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
But NA/KR is a different story. The "inconvenience" for other teams is that the other 7 teams who have no interest playing in KR would have to train there if Liquid's proposal is accepted. As has been said, the delay is significant and you have to play quite a few games to get used to it. Other teams might not want that because what other tournaments require them to play on KR server. That might be what the "inconvenience" That by accomodating that rule, you're forcing the other 7 team to having to prepare on KR. | ||
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monitor
United States2408 Posts
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Goibon
New Zealand8185 Posts
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