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On May 03 2011 04:54 CryMeAReaper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 04:47 Azarkon wrote:On May 03 2011 04:37 Beastyqt wrote:On May 03 2011 04:32 Azarkon wrote:
Xeris is wrong in his assessment of the current Empire, but part of his argument makes sense: GCPL invited Empire and Empire failed there, so this time some other teams are going to be given a chance. There has to be a price for failing and if that means you have to sit out of the next team invitational league, then that's all the more motivation to not perform poorly. If a league simply invited the same teams to it over and over again, then how would new teams be able to prove themselves?
Also, I do think that NA organizers do not keep up with the EU scene very closely. I know how good Happy is because I know he came from WC 3, was a (or the) top Undead player, and sees his ladder/weekly cup stats. Put 1 and 1 and 1 together and it's obvious he'll be a force to be reckoned with. But most NA people, including many of the organizers, do not know this. Many don't even know who Happy is, and has an impression of Beastyqt that sums up to "uh... yeah, I seem to recall someone named Beastyqt. What did he do again?" Sorry Beasty, but that's just the way it is. I know you're better than that, but you haven't been very prominent in big tournaments, and it's those tournaments that NA viewers follow.
To this end, I think what Xeris is saying simply illustrates the degree to which we are separate communities in SC 2, as opposed to the unified one that some people think we have. Most people in NA didn't even know about Kas until he made a big splash in TSL. I draw a blank when I think about players like Nerchio and Darkforce, not because they suck but because they haven't made a splash in most of the big events that NA viewers watch. I agree I am unknown for most of people, reason? Because people like xeris are making invites lol (Rainbow instead 90% of other koreans good job). How many big tournaments were there and can you name me one where SAME players werent invited as always? Beasty, it's understandable that you're pissed about the way NA invitationals are done, but what do you suggest? Should NA organizers invite people based on their GO4SC2 and CraftCup results? Because right now the way it's done, as far as I can see, is based on big tournament results like IEM, Dreamhack, MLG, and TSL. Rainbow used to be one of the top achieving Korean Terrans and had results in both Korean and foreign tournaments to back it up. I can understand why NASL would choose him over, say, MMA, who had nothing to his name beyond some stunning performances in recent GSL games. A LOT of top EU players plays regularly in said cups, and ull always find names like Nerchio, Kas (oh shit 2 from empire), SjoW, Stephano (whos been on fire as of late), GoOdy, Tarson and BratOK in the later rounds, they do it cause its good practice and u can win some money (at least sunday go4sc2, its 200 euro 1st price). Those are names who does well in huge tournies. If someone consistently beats those players but for some reason havnt had a chance to play in an IEM or an MLG, does that mean they suckz and shouldnt be invited? Edit: oh shit ive mass posted in the last 15min O.o
So your suggestion is that NA organizers invite whoever's been doing well in the Sunday Go4SC2 in the last few months? That's a concrete suggestion, if true, and one that I'd support, actually.
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On May 03 2011 04:42 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 04:26 crms wrote:And I think the comments Xeris is making about Empire and some of their players being bad and then inviting lesser teams like MYM in their place. Even if Empire was bad (which they clearly are not), why would you, Xeris, who is suppose to be representing this league straight out call a team and their players bad. Not only is that completely out of line for yourself, it reflects poorly on the whole project. 100% agree. At this point with his history of posting, outright lack of knowledge and complete lack of professionalism I can't for the life of me see how he is employed with anything pertaining to eSports. I mean a representative of many leagues and NASL just called out one of if not the best team in EU right now and called their players bad.. what? The best thing about eSports growing is eventually we will weed out these amateurs. First of all, Xeris is not a representative of EG. He's not associated with this league and he's giving his personal opinion. Get that straight. Second, Xeris is here because he has done a tremendous amount of organization for the community in Beta. He maybe an amateur, but he has done far more than any of his critics in this thread in terms of organization. I don't agree with Xeris's assessment of Empire, but he's not just someone who came out of nowhere. He is widely understood as one of the top organizers during Beta.
I know he isn't involved in this EG event.
He is a big player in the community and his attitude in this thread is unbelieveable. He isn't Dana White. This isn't the first time hes displayed horrid judgement on the boards as someone so involved with the community from a organizational\managerial aspect. If I was his boss at NASL with all the problems they've already been going through I'd be pissed that one of their figureheads is getting in silly debates and calling amazing teams 'bad' on a public medium.
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On May 03 2011 04:47 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 04:37 Beastyqt wrote:On May 03 2011 04:32 Azarkon wrote:
Xeris is wrong in his assessment of the current Empire, but part of his argument makes sense: GCPL invited Empire and Empire failed there, so this time some other teams are going to be given a chance. There has to be a price for failing and if that means you have to sit out of the next team invitational league, then that's all the more motivation to not perform poorly. If a league simply invited the same teams to it over and over again, then how would new teams be able to prove themselves?
Also, I do think that NA organizers do not keep up with the EU scene very closely. I know how good Happy is because I know he came from WC 3, was a (or the) top Undead player, and sees his ladder/weekly cup stats. Put 1 and 1 and 1 together and it's obvious he'll be a force to be reckoned with. But most NA people, including many of the organizers, do not know this. Many don't even know who Happy is, and has an impression of Beastyqt that sums up to "uh... yeah, I seem to recall someone named Beastyqt. What did he do again?" Sorry Beasty, but that's just the way it is. I know you're better than that, but you haven't been very prominent in big tournaments, and it's those tournaments that NA viewers follow.
To this end, I think what Xeris is saying simply illustrates the degree to which we are separate communities in SC 2, as opposed to the unified one that some people think we have. Most people in NA didn't even know about Kas until he made a big splash in TSL. I draw a blank when I think about players like Nerchio and Darkforce, not because they suck but because they haven't made a splash in most of the big events that NA viewers watch. I agree I am unknown for most of people, reason? Because people like xeris are making invites lol (Rainbow instead 90% of other koreans good job). How many big tournaments were there and can you name me one where SAME players werent invited as always? Beasty, it's understandable that you're pissed about the way NA invitationals are done, but what do you suggest? Should NA organizers invite people based on their GO4SC2 and CraftCup results? Because right now the way it's done, as far as I can see, is based on big tournament results like IEM, Dreamhack, MLG, GSL, and TSL. Rainbow used to be one of the top achieving Korean Terrans and had results in both Korean and foreign tournaments to back it up. I can understand why NASL would choose him over, say, MMA, whose achievements basically come down to some good performances in recent GSL games.
Even if you look at these tournaments how can sixjax, mym and millenium surpass Empire?
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On May 03 2011 04:58 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 04:54 CryMeAReaper wrote:On May 03 2011 04:47 Azarkon wrote:On May 03 2011 04:37 Beastyqt wrote:On May 03 2011 04:32 Azarkon wrote:
Xeris is wrong in his assessment of the current Empire, but part of his argument makes sense: GCPL invited Empire and Empire failed there, so this time some other teams are going to be given a chance. There has to be a price for failing and if that means you have to sit out of the next team invitational league, then that's all the more motivation to not perform poorly. If a league simply invited the same teams to it over and over again, then how would new teams be able to prove themselves?
Also, I do think that NA organizers do not keep up with the EU scene very closely. I know how good Happy is because I know he came from WC 3, was a (or the) top Undead player, and sees his ladder/weekly cup stats. Put 1 and 1 and 1 together and it's obvious he'll be a force to be reckoned with. But most NA people, including many of the organizers, do not know this. Many don't even know who Happy is, and has an impression of Beastyqt that sums up to "uh... yeah, I seem to recall someone named Beastyqt. What did he do again?" Sorry Beasty, but that's just the way it is. I know you're better than that, but you haven't been very prominent in big tournaments, and it's those tournaments that NA viewers follow.
To this end, I think what Xeris is saying simply illustrates the degree to which we are separate communities in SC 2, as opposed to the unified one that some people think we have. Most people in NA didn't even know about Kas until he made a big splash in TSL. I draw a blank when I think about players like Nerchio and Darkforce, not because they suck but because they haven't made a splash in most of the big events that NA viewers watch. I agree I am unknown for most of people, reason? Because people like xeris are making invites lol (Rainbow instead 90% of other koreans good job). How many big tournaments were there and can you name me one where SAME players werent invited as always? Beasty, it's understandable that you're pissed about the way NA invitationals are done, but what do you suggest? Should NA organizers invite people based on their GO4SC2 and CraftCup results? Because right now the way it's done, as far as I can see, is based on big tournament results like IEM, Dreamhack, MLG, and TSL. Rainbow used to be one of the top achieving Korean Terrans and had results in both Korean and foreign tournaments to back it up. I can understand why NASL would choose him over, say, MMA, who had nothing to his name beyond some stunning performances in recent GSL games. A LOT of top EU players plays regularly in said cups, and ull always find names like Nerchio, Kas (oh shit 2 from empire), SjoW, Stephano (whos been on fire as of late), GoOdy, Tarson and BratOK in the later rounds, they do it cause its good practice and u can win some money (at least sunday go4sc2, its 200 euro 1st price). Those are names who does well in huge tournies. If someone consistently beats those players but for some reason havnt had a chance to play in an IEM or an MLG, does that mean they suckz and shouldnt be invited? Edit: oh shit ive mass posted in the last 15min O.o So your suggestion is that NA organizers invite whoever's been doing well in the Sunday Go4SC2 in the last few months? That's a concrete suggestion, if true, and one that I'd support, actually.
Im just a random forum poster and i do not know enough to give an educated suggestion. However, i feel like organisers SHOULD pay attention to the bigger EU cups, as they have fierce competition, and its not just "couple of good players, 1 top player, the top gets 1st, some semi-good gets 2-4", its:
Semi-final 1: BratOK vs Kas
Semi-final 2: Tarson vs Stephano
its like a MLG finals every weekend (match up wise) and that should be taken into consideration.
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On May 03 2011 04:58 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 04:54 CryMeAReaper wrote:On May 03 2011 04:47 Azarkon wrote:On May 03 2011 04:37 Beastyqt wrote:On May 03 2011 04:32 Azarkon wrote:
Xeris is wrong in his assessment of the current Empire, but part of his argument makes sense: GCPL invited Empire and Empire failed there, so this time some other teams are going to be given a chance. There has to be a price for failing and if that means you have to sit out of the next team invitational league, then that's all the more motivation to not perform poorly. If a league simply invited the same teams to it over and over again, then how would new teams be able to prove themselves?
Also, I do think that NA organizers do not keep up with the EU scene very closely. I know how good Happy is because I know he came from WC 3, was a (or the) top Undead player, and sees his ladder/weekly cup stats. Put 1 and 1 and 1 together and it's obvious he'll be a force to be reckoned with. But most NA people, including many of the organizers, do not know this. Many don't even know who Happy is, and has an impression of Beastyqt that sums up to "uh... yeah, I seem to recall someone named Beastyqt. What did he do again?" Sorry Beasty, but that's just the way it is. I know you're better than that, but you haven't been very prominent in big tournaments, and it's those tournaments that NA viewers follow.
To this end, I think what Xeris is saying simply illustrates the degree to which we are separate communities in SC 2, as opposed to the unified one that some people think we have. Most people in NA didn't even know about Kas until he made a big splash in TSL. I draw a blank when I think about players like Nerchio and Darkforce, not because they suck but because they haven't made a splash in most of the big events that NA viewers watch. I agree I am unknown for most of people, reason? Because people like xeris are making invites lol (Rainbow instead 90% of other koreans good job). How many big tournaments were there and can you name me one where SAME players werent invited as always? Beasty, it's understandable that you're pissed about the way NA invitationals are done, but what do you suggest? Should NA organizers invite people based on their GO4SC2 and CraftCup results? Because right now the way it's done, as far as I can see, is based on big tournament results like IEM, Dreamhack, MLG, and TSL. Rainbow used to be one of the top achieving Korean Terrans and had results in both Korean and foreign tournaments to back it up. I can understand why NASL would choose him over, say, MMA, who had nothing to his name beyond some stunning performances in recent GSL games. A LOT of top EU players plays regularly in said cups, and ull always find names like Nerchio, Kas (oh shit 2 from empire), SjoW, Stephano (whos been on fire as of late), GoOdy, Tarson and BratOK in the later rounds, they do it cause its good practice and u can win some money (at least sunday go4sc2, its 200 euro 1st price). Those are names who does well in huge tournies. If someone consistently beats those players but for some reason havnt had a chance to play in an IEM or an MLG, does that mean they suckz and shouldnt be invited? Edit: oh shit ive mass posted in the last 15min O.o So your suggestion is that NA organizers invite whoever's been doing well in the Sunday Go4SC2 in the last few months? That's a concrete suggestion, if true, and one that I'd support, actually.
No but what they could have done is to look at other team leagues and check out updated player list, look at their achevements etc. They could also have the "lesser" named teams play a small qualifiers for the last spots.
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If you guys have the money DEFINITELY do an IdrA vs team ROOT rivalry video like they do in the GSL.
Have IdrA go to the ROOT house in Florida and challenge them to a showmatch. If he wins have him break their banner/sign or something. Or bring iNcontroL along just to do the physical breaking.
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On May 03 2011 00:46 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 19:12 BG1 wrote:
I'd just like to touch up on the US-EU server disadvantage talk.
Pinging European servers from NA will get you between 120ms-200ms ping (depending on if you are on the West Coast or East coast etc..).
Afaik bnet minimum latency is set to 125ms. Meaning Europeans on US servers are playing with a 75ms ping at worst (good enough to even play FPS games) and same goes for Americans on the EU server. Which would explain why there's basically no noticable lag between EU-US.
So the disadvantage is 0.075 seconds. i.e almost nonexistant. First, Europe is a wide continent with many different qualities of service so attributing one average ping doesn't really mean anything. NA is as well, but anyone in the continental US will have <125 ping to Bnet servers. Perhaps not for Canada, though. Second, your idea of pinging from your house to various places in Europe that you've thought of is meaningless. Only the ping from Blizzard's servers matter and again, you're not really testing Europe. Third, using your meaningless numbers, 75 ping is quite large in FPS games. No Quake player would've tolerated that (the server switching tradition began in Quake and carried on through CS) and some CS teams had to, but at the invite level a 10 vs 85 ping differential is basically lights out. That's why Canadian teams tried to have servers that were equally terrible for everyone. The funny thing is that NaNiwa has been completely ignored by everyone (except drewbie) and he still makes the case for EU-NA server switching. Also, when Liquid was being considered, there were more European teams and players in the league than for NA. If I were running EG I'd probably make the same decision but for any random organizer, server switching, at least between NA-EU, makes the most sense for the future until Blizzard provides some support.
First, the bnet ping is set to 125ms minimum, it doesn't matter if you have a lower ping, you'll still have a 125ms delay even if you're in the US.
Second, the 120-200 range includes most of europe (Sweden, Italy, France etc..) excluding some of the eastern european countries. Blizzard's server is in that range as well, unless it is located in eastern Europe  .
Third, I never mentioned 75 ping was good enough for competitive FPS. It's good enough for regular play with little delay. It's certainly not much in RTS terms.
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On May 03 2011 05:07 Horse...falcon wrote:
If you guys have the money DEFINITELY do an IdrA vs team ROOT rivalry video like they do in the GSL.
Have IdrA go to the ROOT house in Florida and challenge them to a showmatch. If he wins have him break their banner/sign or something. Or bring iNcontroL along just to do the physical breaking.
rofl..
this, pretty please
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On May 03 2011 04:58 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 04:42 Azarkon wrote:On May 03 2011 04:26 crms wrote:And I think the comments Xeris is making about Empire and some of their players being bad and then inviting lesser teams like MYM in their place. Even if Empire was bad (which they clearly are not), why would you, Xeris, who is suppose to be representing this league straight out call a team and their players bad. Not only is that completely out of line for yourself, it reflects poorly on the whole project. 100% agree. At this point with his history of posting, outright lack of knowledge and complete lack of professionalism I can't for the life of me see how he is employed with anything pertaining to eSports. I mean a representative of many leagues and NASL just called out one of if not the best team in EU right now and called their players bad.. what? The best thing about eSports growing is eventually we will weed out these amateurs. First of all, Xeris is not a representative of EG. He's not associated with this league and he's giving his personal opinion. Get that straight. Second, Xeris is here because he has done a tremendous amount of organization for the community in Beta. He maybe an amateur, but he has done far more than any of his critics in this thread in terms of organization. I don't agree with Xeris's assessment of Empire, but he's not just someone who came out of nowhere. He is widely understood as one of the top organizers during Beta. I know he isn't involved in this EG event. He is a big player in the community and his attitude in this thread is unbelieveable. He isn't Dana White. This isn't the first time hes displayed horrid judgement on the boards as someone so involved with the community from a organizational\managerial aspect. If I was his boss at NASL with all the problems they've already been going through I'd be pissed that one of their figureheads is getting in silly debates and calling amazing teams 'bad' on a public medium.
I agree that Xeris stepped out of bounds in his comments towards Empire players, but then again, he's always been rather blunt. But what I'm trying to say is that Xeris isn't an exception when it comes to NA's knowledge of the EU scene. The NA community simply does not keep tabs on every little tournament that goes on in Europe, and so does not have the same appreciation that EU fans seem to have for the winners of those tournaments.
Part of the reason for inviting Mym & Millenium instead of Empire is probably to give those teams more exposure. Would it be fair for Mym & Millenium if Empire kept getting invited in their place despite not having a good showing the last time they were invited into a NA team league? Not really, so the best argument for inviting Empire is that they have the best players. Yet, how do you expect NA organizers to know or think that Happy is the best player in Europe? For most of us in NA, Happy still hasn't gotten a major win and so still hasn't proved himself. Clearly, Europeans disagree, but if so, how do you go about closing the gap?
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On May 02 2011 23:42 CTStalker wrote:
if you don't like 2v2, then just piss off and don't watch the games when they air. you're all horribly wrong though. when proleague had 2v2 it was amazing. there were (basically) dedicated 2v2 players like qoo)max who would show great games against teams like reach / yellow.
This may be true (tho I agree that 2v2 will be phased out when it probably ends up being the same race combos 100% of the time with the same strats), but for sure the 2v2 should NOT be the game going into the ace match. This puts way too much importance on a match that isn't balanced.
It should be the 2nd or 3rd at most.
Also, I doubt any teams will spend the money to bring in 2v2 only people. It will remain as something 1v1 players do in their offtime which means it will never evolve beyond t1 play.
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Northern Ireland2557 Posts
Amazing how Xeris has the audacity to slander Empire when he decides to invite Sixjax who have much less accomplished players, especially considering he justifies it by basing it off GCPL results when almost the entire roster is completely different now :/ PLEASE do your research instead of just inviting another North American team... then again why am I even surprised at this when this is the guy who had a say in NASL invites like Rainbow, ViBe and dde? almost any other korean terran would have been a better choice and vibe/dde hadn't done anything and we were just told "They are good trust us guys lol". even though a ton of European players were (and still are) much more accomplished and skilled.
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Hmm, I've been reading most of these pages.
And some people seem to be upset that Empire isn't on here. Yes, they are a good team. Short recap of the issue:
-Some people are defending why Empire shouldn't be in this tournament.
-Other people disagree with that assessment, and believe that Empire should be in it due to their skill.
But I noticed the people talking about Empire's skill are using the argument that they have top ladder players. Uhh, I don't think ladder should affect people's opinions on how good people are.
Just because you are at the top of the ladder, that does not correlate to being the most skilled at this game necessarily. For pete's sake, Combat-ex- is up there in the ladder. I know there are a lot of pros that prefer to not ladder and use custom games to practice.
Back on topic however, I am very excited for this league.
EDIT: I better clarify, I see potential flames. I am a big fan of Empire and I do think that they are one of the top teams in Europe. My point is that people need to stop equating Ladder position with being the best in the world in terms of skill.
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On May 03 2011 05:09 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 04:58 crms wrote:On May 03 2011 04:42 Azarkon wrote:On May 03 2011 04:26 crms wrote:And I think the comments Xeris is making about Empire and some of their players being bad and then inviting lesser teams like MYM in their place. Even if Empire was bad (which they clearly are not), why would you, Xeris, who is suppose to be representing this league straight out call a team and their players bad. Not only is that completely out of line for yourself, it reflects poorly on the whole project. 100% agree. At this point with his history of posting, outright lack of knowledge and complete lack of professionalism I can't for the life of me see how he is employed with anything pertaining to eSports. I mean a representative of many leagues and NASL just called out one of if not the best team in EU right now and called their players bad.. what? The best thing about eSports growing is eventually we will weed out these amateurs. First of all, Xeris is not a representative of EG. He's not associated with this league and he's giving his personal opinion. Get that straight. Second, Xeris is here because he has done a tremendous amount of organization for the community in Beta. He maybe an amateur, but he has done far more than any of his critics in this thread in terms of organization. I don't agree with Xeris's assessment of Empire, but he's not just someone who came out of nowhere. He is widely understood as one of the top organizers during Beta. I know he isn't involved in this EG event. He is a big player in the community and his attitude in this thread is unbelieveable. He isn't Dana White. This isn't the first time hes displayed horrid judgement on the boards as someone so involved with the community from a organizational\managerial aspect. If I was his boss at NASL with all the problems they've already been going through I'd be pissed that one of their figureheads is getting in silly debates and calling amazing teams 'bad' on a public medium. Part of the reason for inviting Mym & Millenium instead of Empire is probably to give those teams more exposure. Would it be fair for Mym & Millenium if Empire kept getting invited in their place despite not having a good showing the last time they were invited into a NA team league? Not really, so the best argument for inviting Empire is that they have the best players. Yet, how do you expect NA organizers to know or think that Happy is the best player in Europe? For most of us in NA, Happy still hasn't gotten a major win and so still hasn't proved himself. Clearly, Europeans disagree, but if so, how do you go about closing the gap?
Just for the record, the fact that it's Happy means people should keep track of him. It's not like it's some unknown up-and-coming player, the guy was basically at Grubbys level for the last three years, but without the big tournament results due to playing Undead and he would run into an Orc sooner or later. Easily top 3 EU since 2007 or so.
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On May 03 2011 05:25 Sipher wrote:
Hmm, I've been reading most of these pages.
And some people seem to be upset that Empire isn't on here. Yes, they are a good team. Short recap of the issue:
-Some people are defending why Empire shouldn't be in this tournament.
-Other people disagree with that assessment, and believe that Empire should be in it due to their skill.
But I noticed the people talking about Empire's skill are using the argument that they have top ladder players. Uhh, I don't think ladder should affect people's opinions on how good people are.
Just because you are at the top of the ladder, that does not correlate to being the most skilled at this game necessarily. For pete's sake, Combat-ex- is up there in the ladder. I know there are a lot of pros that prefer to not ladder and use custom games to practice.
Back on topic however, I am very excited for this league.
EDIT: I better clarify, I see potential flames. I am a big fan of Empire and I do think that they are one of the top teams in Europe. My point is that people need to stop equating Ladder position with being the best in the world in terms of skill.
Beastyqt - Been solidly perfoming well in stacked online cups
Happy - just recently started participating in tournies, been winning like almost everything he joined so far
Kas - Many people (and pros) consider him to be best EU player/foreigner terran
Nerchio - Been really really good for some time now, been doing really lately, recently 3-0ing(i think) DeMusliM in the SK tourny finals.
So no, theyre not just ladder players t.t, however Sixjax gets invited, and majority of their players have done shit compared to Empire. I just feel bad for them, a lot of rly good EU team/players dosnt get respect/reckognition from NA organisers/ppl
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On May 03 2011 05:25 Sipher wrote:
Hmm, I've been reading most of these pages.
And some people seem to be upset that Empire isn't on here. Yes, they are a good team. Short recap of the issue:
-Some people are defending why Empire shouldn't be in this tournament.
-Other people disagree with that assessment, and believe that Empire should be in it due to their skill.
But I noticed the people talking about Empire's skill are using the argument that they have top ladder players. Uhh, I don't think ladder should affect people's opinions on how good people are.
Just because you are at the top of the ladder, that does not correlate to being the most skilled at this game necessarily. For pete's sake, Combat-ex- is up there in the ladder. I know there are a lot of pros that prefer to not ladder and use custom games to practice.
Back on topic however, I am very excited for this league.
EDIT: I better clarify, I see potential flames. I am a big fan of Empire and I do think that they are one of the top teams in Europe. My point is that people need to stop equating Ladder position with being the best in the world in terms of skill.
I stopped reading when you started comparing Combat-EX with Happy, Kas and Nerchio.. why don't you go and take a look at the tournament roundup for April to see if you find Combat-EX in the list of players with most tournament wins? nope you won't .. you will find that 3 out of the first 5 spots are Empire players though.
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Beastiq is probably on par with Sixjax`s ace player Terran/Major. Both are upcoming players with strong mechanics but they did not shine on the big stage. After 3000 ladder games, Happy is winning a lot in the weekly cups and impresses with excellent mechanics and people start to call him Kas2, even though the real Kas still plays a bit smarter.
Nerchio might be a bm playér but incredibly strong and very succesfull in cups. Aristeo/ Cubert are the best 2v2 in Europe.
In contrast to that Sixjaxx didn`t achieve anything and in case of MYM their roster also mainly consists out of ladder-heroes, though very good ones plus Cloud as an established player.
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On May 03 2011 05:34 CryMeAReaper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 05:25 Sipher wrote:
Hmm, I've been reading most of these pages.
And some people seem to be upset that Empire isn't on here. Yes, they are a good team. Short recap of the issue:
-Some people are defending why Empire shouldn't be in this tournament.
-Other people disagree with that assessment, and believe that Empire should be in it due to their skill.
But I noticed the people talking about Empire's skill are using the argument that they have top ladder players. Uhh, I don't think ladder should affect people's opinions on how good people are.
Just because you are at the top of the ladder, that does not correlate to being the most skilled at this game necessarily. For pete's sake, Combat-ex- is up there in the ladder. I know there are a lot of pros that prefer to not ladder and use custom games to practice.
Back on topic however, I am very excited for this league.
EDIT: I better clarify, I see potential flames. I am a big fan of Empire and I do think that they are one of the top teams in Europe. My point is that people need to stop equating Ladder position with being the best in the world in terms of skill. Beastyqt - Been solidly perfoming well in stacked online cups Happy - just recently started participating in tournies, been winning like almost everything he joined so far Kas - Many people (and pros) consider him to be best EU player/foreigner terran Nerchio - Been really really good for some time now, been doing really lately, recently 3-0ing(i think) DeMusliM in the SK tourny finals. So no, theyre not just ladder players t.t, however Sixjax gets invited, and majority of their players have done shit compared to Empire. I just feel bad for them, a lot of rly good EU team/players dosnt get respect/reckognition from NA organisers/ppl
Dude, did you completely ignore my last sentence!?! I am a big fan of Empire. Happy is a beast, as is Kas and Nerchio. Beastyqt has been a rising player in my books.
My statement was meant as a generality, and not directed at Empire players. Perhaps I should have clarified that as well. And I agree about Sixjax, I can't stand Major/Princess/whatever the heck he is; I dunno I was a fan when they picked up Artosis, and I like dde. But once they picked that kid up, it's an auto "un-fan" from me.
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Hm. I feel bad for TL but glad they took a stand here and explained there decision. EG just should do an american teamleague...
I really would love to see some playoffs for the spots like sixjax vs empire. Maybe sixjax is better? Who knows? they never faced each other.
Like it is now, it is "just" an us beneficial invitational. Thas totally fine and i am going to watch it but i feel people are going to have false expectations for this.
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On May 03 2011 05:37 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 05:25 Sipher wrote:
Hmm, I've been reading most of these pages.
And some people seem to be upset that Empire isn't on here. Yes, they are a good team. Short recap of the issue:
-Some people are defending why Empire shouldn't be in this tournament.
-Other people disagree with that assessment, and believe that Empire should be in it due to their skill.
But I noticed the people talking about Empire's skill are using the argument that they have top ladder players. Uhh, I don't think ladder should affect people's opinions on how good people are.
Just because you are at the top of the ladder, that does not correlate to being the most skilled at this game necessarily. For pete's sake, Combat-ex- is up there in the ladder. I know there are a lot of pros that prefer to not ladder and use custom games to practice.
Back on topic however, I am very excited for this league.
EDIT: I better clarify, I see potential flames. I am a big fan of Empire and I do think that they are one of the top teams in Europe. My point is that people need to stop equating Ladder position with being the best in the world in terms of skill. I stopped reading when you started comparing Combat-EX with Happy, Kas and Nerchio.. why don't you go and take a look at the tournament roundup for April to see if you find Combat-EX in the list of players with most tournament wins? nope you won't .. you will find that 3 out of the first 5 spots are Empire players though.
Well, that was your problem. You stopped reading. If you had kept reading you would have seen that I was saying that as a generality and not applying it to Empire. I am a big fan of the team, and I believe their talent pool is huge.
So please, next READ MORE! I just get annoyed when people choose to ignore what I type.
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Xeris looking like a joke again. Wow. What the heck man? Why don't you stop making ignorant posts for a little and be a bit more respectful? Maybe you'd gain some of the respect back that you've lost due to your smug attitude lately.
Great event from EG as I said in page 1. I agree with both sides here, sucks this is the way it is, hopefully in the future a compromise gets worked out .
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EPT
