EPTBelief in an omnipotent pointless? - Page 12
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
That really isnt a valid argument. The only counter to this argument would be to argue against the assumption that chaos theory is correct | ||
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Meat
Netherlands3751 Posts
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BumpOnaLog
Canada318 Posts
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
If you know i am going to do something, with absolute truth, how can i possibly choose or not choose to do it. If i am *going to do it no matter what*, where does choice come in. If there is a banana and an apple on a table, and u say 'he's gonna take the banana', and i *have* to choose that banana because your god, and you all ready know its going to happen, how can i possibly eat that apple? If you all ready know what im going to do *before i choose to do it*, i cease to have that choice. | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
Moltke, i am really without words to describe how good it is that you are on this forum. You are smart, educated, intelligent, articulate, and an awesome part of this website. Never disappear please. I don't want to lose again a TL.net idol. | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
I'm torn between being Agnostic and Atheist. I am on the pursuit of truth and will always prusue truth, and will never ultimately know with certainty what i should believe. However, the more that i experience, the more that feel, the more that i think and consider, the more i lean towards Atheism. I believe that we are a random occurence. I believe that against all odds and chance, that we have fluked into existing. The gift of life and more specifically, conciousness, and our ability to percieve beauty in goodness is nothing short of a miracle. (oh the irony!~). I am in awe of existing. I am in awe of everything it means to be alive. My perspective on how frail and amazing life is makes me humble and gives me an appreciation of life. And for this reason i find religion to be most insulting. They do not believe these things. They believe that we are planned. They believe we have a purpose. They believe that there is more than the truly beautiful thing that we should most cherish. They fancy themselves with things more than life. It trivializes everything. I am thankful to the universe for creating me. I know that it is by no right or privaledge that i am here, i simply am. My life is so much more precious and meaningful because of its finity. They promise more. I mean utlimately i won't take their beliefs personally. They aren't trying to demean my beliefs anymore than i try to demean theirs. I think it would be a waste of time to think how much i hate their beliefs, and to more focus on loving and cherishing life as much as i can/do. However, i dont think that a higher power is an impossibility. I just think it's improbable. If He does exist, He is not omniscient. I have no idea nor care if He is omnipotent. I would like to think that a being more powerful and intelligent and us would also be more wise. He would love us unconditionally. That's all there is to that. btw, Memnoch the Devil by Anne Rice is a brilliant book about god/creation/the universe/devil/hell. I would suggest reading it whether ur into fantasy/vampires/have read her previous books or not. | ||
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badteeth
Netherlands1416 Posts
On November 05 2004 15:44 BigBalls wrote: Well, I wouldnt try to disprove god, or prove god for that matter, cause I cant, and neither can anyone else at this point. However, that's not really the aim of this discussion. The aim of this discussion was to show that EITHER there is no free will or there is no omnipotent being. Well, I suppose omnipotent is the wrong word there, there is no OMNISCIENT being. There could be an all powerful being that is not omniscient. Regardless, supposing no free will, our lives are predetermined and they dont really have any meaning at all. There is no free will AND there is no god. | ||
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
On November 05 2004 17:05 Teroru wrote: except that you don't know you have to choose the banana, you arbitrarily choose that banana, and wow! it's right!Kaotu, you're not getting it. If you know i am going to do something, with absolute truth, how can i possibly choose or not choose to do it. If i am *going to do it no matter what*, where does choice come in. If there is a banana and an apple on a table, and u say 'he's gonna take the banana', and i *have* to choose that banana because your god, and you all ready know its going to happen, how can i possibly eat that apple? If you all ready know what im going to do *before i choose to do it*, i cease to have that choice. | ||
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
On November 05 2004 18:14 badteeth wrote: penis envy can be a harsh thingThere is no free will AND there is no god. | ||
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badteeth
Netherlands1416 Posts
On November 05 2004 19:14 RuGbUg wrote: penis envy can be a harsh thing What did God put up you ass, you retarded piece of dung. | ||
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
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JoopeyDoop
United States150 Posts
as to someone said complexity of the brain causes a consiousness, if this could be explained to me.. it would solve a lot for me personally | ||
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LaptopLegacy
Netherlands602 Posts
I'm torn between being Agnostic and Atheist. I am on the pursuit of truth and will always prusue truth, and will never ultimately know with certainty what i should believe. However, the more that i experience, the more that feel, the more that i think and consider, the more i lean towards Atheism. I think atheism is the more sensible position to hold. First, nothing in nature can be ultimately proven with 100% degree of certainty (except in mathematics and logic if you accept the axioms as true). Secondly, there are many, many things that are highly improbable but that cannot be disproven with 100% certainty. How, for example, do you know there's no lion in your toilet that disappears the moment you open the door? You can't prove it doesn't exsist and yet every time you go take a crap you believe it's not there and hasn't grown hungry enough to stay materialized and swallow you. Or how do we know for sure that the next time we sit down will not cause the force of gravity to go from being an attractive force to being a repelling one? According to Popper, it doesn't matter how many observations verify your theory, there can always be a discovery that would disprove it. But still, we accept these kind of theories as thruth and act like they're 100% proven. I think the existence of a supernatural being (especially the traditional christian god) is equally improbable as my examples above. By definition we can never find any evidence (evidence, as opposed to proof) for such a being. That makes its existence superfluous and victim to Occam's razor. Another reason for atheism over agnosticism is practical. What i've seen from people i know is that agnostics usually live their lifes as if there is no god, just as atheists. Finally, another problem for agnosticism is that you'd have to consider the possibility of every imaginable god to exist. Not only the judeo-christian one, but also allah, Zeus, Marduk, Quetzalqoatl, Vishna, Thor etc etc. And not only the gods of the world religions, but all possible gods. Even malevolent ones that have us trapped in a Matrix-style (yeah i used the argument ad Matrix, kill me now :p). This leads to weird philosofical ideas like solipsism that really are not productive at all. | ||
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FrEaK[S.sIR]
2373 Posts
I'm sorry Kaotu, but you've had nothing relevant to say this whole time, and there have been very few god bashing posts to justify taking up and entire page =[ If you don't understand the concept that we are discussing at this point, then you aren't going to. It doesn't seem to make sense to you. And to claim that after we die we no longer have purpose without god is just silly. Isaac Newtown created calculus. CREATED CALCULUS. That is plenty of purpose right there. Anybody with capability and desire can and will have purpose beyond death. Anyways, thats all I have to say to Kaotu, don't join conversations when you have no idea what the hell they are about, nor do you comprehend them =[ May we have a different discussion someday, but today is not that day Kaotu. FrEaK | ||
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LaptopLegacy
Netherlands602 Posts
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/index.php Especially the "Existence of God(s)" forums has many interesting discussions like this one. I also liked the formal debate on the existence of the christian god between Ted Drange and Chris McHugh here: http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=63152 Hope these site-plugs are not considered spamming?? | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
an omniscient entity existing does not necessarily mean there is no free will. predermination does not necessarily mean there is no free will. it is a very tricky subject and is largely up to just 'how you look at it' oh fuck i need to get more sleep before i try to explain this i just spent 15 minutes confusing myself | ||
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
The only way to argue against my line of reasoning is to argue against chos thoery | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
consciousness is not a physical thing do you understand what I just tried to get at by that? | ||
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