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On November 18 2010 08:11 krazymunky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 07:55 Insanious wrote:On November 18 2010 07:38 Jonoman92 wrote:I don't really know how much to believe from that article.
A few hours after I had agreed to write the paper, I received the following e-mail: "sending sorces for ur to use thanx."
I did not reply immediately. One hour later, I received another message:
"did u get the sorce I send
please where you are now?
Desprit to pass spring projict"
That is so not a real quote from the student, no way. You would be suprised. Also he said most of the people he is talking about are either ESL, so english is very hard for them. Or they are just stupid and well english is hard for them too. yeah either they're ESL or just someone typing really quickly. I have friends who cannot spell for their lives when they type quickly or chat on AIM/MSN. and since its not to the professor I dont think they're going to pay attention to the correct spelling or grammar in their letters. I agree that taking breadth classes makes your learning diverse,but as a recent graduate, I do not think any of my electives/GEs helped me at all (except for grade boosting lol)
I think there's a pretty big difference between typing quickly and making mistakes. Typos happen and are excusable but when the person in question has no idea what the correct spelling (or in the case of the article, grammar) is I think we have a problem.
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Russian Federation145 Posts
On November 18 2010 06:22 Insanious wrote:
Universities are glorified High Schools... if you can memorize things you can get an A+ if you know why something works but cannot memorize the correct terms, say hello to a B.
Sad but true... every test I have written for my university so far has me getting 100% on short and long answer questions (the "explain theory" questions) but when it is "which one of these is not one of the marketing forces?" multiple choice shit... I do a lot worse... 60-70% correct.
But in the real world will I ever need to know how to calculate the Confidence interval of a statistic by hand, know how to find the NPV of some investment by hand? Hell no, I will use a computer program to do that... but knowing what a CI or NPV means will be important. Too bad we aren't tested on knowing what something means and are tested on how to find something useless.
Anyone who has taken both, hard science classes such as calculus and calculus based physics and soft science classes such as statistics and psychology can tell you that there is a pretty fucking huge distinction in the workload required and amount of effort expected. Yea I could write my 5 page English 2 paper the night before and expect a solid B+, but if I tried to cram for even a lowly Phys 1 exam, the only thing I could ever hope for is a gigantic curve giving me a D- instead of an F. Then again, I go to a fairly strong engineering school.
Why do you think the writer refuses to do any math?
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United States4126 Posts
I like this guy's tone of voice and it's really informative. It does get you questioning where our society's ethics are headed, but it's just one of those topics of discussion that get pushed aside because it doesn't garner enough attention.
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Pretty much shits on my morals and lets everyone else get away with being lazy bums. Not like it was a big surprise, but damn.
What kind of toll is it going to take on a culture that can't even properly write one sentence -- at least something close as possible to it.
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You get out what you put in, if you take the time to write essays about things you want to learn about rather than things you already know about, you'll actually find that essay-writing can be both easy and interesting at the same time.
Btw, there's not a chance in hell some Goon who's a professional faker could out write me in my subject, and this is the case for any higher-educational program that matters. He might fake-out a community college prof, good luck with the PH.D. professors at higher-echelon 4 year universities (who have 20 students or less a quarter). But admittedly, these professors are a dying breed.
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As others have said, it's hard to believe he can write at a high level on such a broad range of topics. He gets by with writing fluff and bullshit, which professors at low and mid tier colleges feed on. Some people have a gift when it comes to writing. If you are good at something, why do it for free.
I also question the validity of those emails. I find it hard to believe anyone writes that poorly.
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I wouldn't recommend using these services online to write papers for you. I remember I had a guildy from a few years back and he got lazy and decided to use some site that promised "unique original essays" to write a essay for him. They ended up copy and pasting one an essay they found online and the professor was easily able to bust him with turn it in or google. He got in pretty deep shit, not sure if he got expelled though.
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On November 18 2010 09:22 crazeman wrote:
I wouldn't recommend using these services online to write papers for you. I remember I had a guildy from a few years back and he got lazy and decided to use some site that promised "unique original essays" to write a essay for him. They ended up copy and pasting one an essay they found online and the professor was easily able to bust him with turn it in or google. He got in pretty deep shit, not sure if he got expelled though.
Being caught for Plagiarism or Academic dishonesty = GG Academic Career/Future opportunities
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I am not sure what to think.
In all honestly, in high school teachers get to know you, and grade you accordingly. Some teachers may be subjective, but over the course of the school year, they know you, and what level of material can you produce. They know what you have learned, and how you approach problems. Isn't this what school is for? Education. Not just grades. Grades are awesome, and I think gives a general idea of the level of proficiency that you have. However, I believe a more accurate 'read' of your proficiency is just the teacher teaching you and getting to know you. They will then know how much you actually know.
I say this because I have done exams where I skip studying due to time constraints, and it seems to always backfire horribly. Did I not know the material. No. But did I deserve a significantly lower grade because of one section? I do not know.
Essentially, what I am saying is that the better education we get, the better we will be. Better means smaller ratio of students to professors. I mean, how much do you learn when you're in a class of 500. You're not going to go raise your hand up and ask questions. At least I wouldn't. Smaller classes, like 100 students, see me asks lots of questions. Furthermore, the professor will more easily get a read on the class.
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As a history major all I do is write essays and I must admit I have been tempted to look into the ghost writer type things. I have not done it however or ever actually even looked into it, instead I do all of the painstaking research (only painstaking because I am researching stuff I already know solely to have sources within the context of the assignment) on my own and waste my life away doing it. I have been tempted to write smaller essays for friends because smaller ones are fairly easy, and the small sums of money I have been offered have seemingly made it worth it however I have not yet done that either.
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I see where this is coming from since i can understand it myself. This semester i have three subjects, call them A, B and C. Every two weeks i get assigned to write two essays of 2k words each for subject A. 2k doesnt sound like alot but the difficulty is in cramming about 400 pages of textbook facts into those 2k words, its actually harder to write it short then to write it long. On top of this i get one new weekly practical assignment for subject B every week, so every two weeks is now 2 papers and 2 practical design assignments.
I worked my ass off and managed these on time so far, but then subject C enters the arena halfway through the semester with its first assignment. A 6k word essay about film analysis, which counts for 50% of my grade. This just screwed me over in so many ways, it required about 600 pages of book reading aswell. I did manage to deliver subject B and C's assignments on time, but missed two evaluation deadlines for subject A. Which leads me to now, i have caught up but i now have two new 2k word essays to be completed by 9 am friday, which is in about 30 hours, and im not even halfway done. All because that 6k essay set me back so majorly and accounted for so much of my grade.
If i fail to deliver an essay, i automaticly get an F in the class, or worse i get incomplete as i cannot take the exam in December. I would of easily have paid a decent sum for someone to write even one of my 2k essays when i got smacked with this about a month back maybe even both.
And no, we did not know the 6k word one was coming. It wasn't revealed this was the assignment until it was actually given, and we got two weeks to write it. Having a tough workload but having it consistently is fine by me, but throwing curveballs like this into it is just bad planning or a straight up dick move and could lead to people hiring someone to take your workload away from you.
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I'd pay to have someone write my papers for me... Only if i were to get so tired of school and swamped with work though, currently I'm doing just great myself so there's no need for hiring someone to write for me.
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The real questions are,
What law does this violate?
How do we throw this guy in jail?
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On November 18 2010 10:26 Capook wrote:
The real questions are,
What law does this violate?
How do we throw this guy in jail?
the ghost writer isn't violating any laws. the students who plagiarize his work are up for explusion/suspension or w/e the school's rule is. There's no reason why he should be in jail
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On November 18 2010 10:01 wunsun wrote:
I am not sure what to think.
In all honestly, in high school teachers get to know you, and grade you accordingly. Some teachers may be subjective, but over the course of the school year, they know you, and what level of material can you produce. They know what you have learned, and how you approach problems. Isn't this what school is for? Education. Not just grades. Grades are awesome, and I think gives a general idea of the level of proficiency that you have. However, I believe a more accurate 'read' of your proficiency is just the teacher teaching you and getting to know you. They will then know how much you actually know.
I say this because I have done exams where I skip studying due to time constraints, and it seems to always backfire horribly. Did I not know the material. No. But did I deserve a significantly lower grade because of one section? I do not know.
Essentially, what I am saying is that the better education we get, the better we will be. Better means smaller ratio of students to professors. I mean, how much do you learn when you're in a class of 500. You're not going to go raise your hand up and ask questions. At least I wouldn't. Smaller classes, like 100 students, see me asks lots of questions. Furthermore, the professor will more easily get a read on the class.
Class size does't justify horrible powerpoint presentations. That is the problem Ed Dante is addressing. The problem is the education system looks at teaching as the way to get people to pass their next exam. The most efficient way to "teach" a class of 500 without much work is to build a giant powerpoint presentation and read through it every class. That isn't teaching; that is reading. Teaching involves inspiring others to learn on their own, and to give them a reason to come to class and do the work (even the non-graded assignments).
Class size isn't a limitation, it is a problem.. and the answer isn't powerpoints nor is it small classes. Use positive reinforcement to get people to come to class, and then teach and inspire them to continue learning on their own. It sounds easy, but in execution it is hard. The demand for education is way higher than the number of good teachers can achieve, so they lower the expectations of teachers.. which lowers the pay-scale.. which makes a lot of the great teachers leave for higher pay elsewhere.. and now the lesser teachers are lost without some serious guidance on how to teach a class.. so they are given a guideline.. which they use to create a horrible powerpoint that they churn out each and every class..
and that is just one problem, I won't even get into the emotional work teaching takes.. nor the amount of effort to actually make something fairly unique and interesting/entertaining (not powerpoints).. etc. There are hundreds of reasons why the educational system is the way it is, but I believe we can all agree it has thousands of reasons for being awful and outdated.
For anyone who has had the fortune of having a great teacher, the rest pale in comparison. I can't really comprehend what makes a great teacher, but if you have one it doesn't matter how large the class is; they know how to inspire people and they know how to get people to do the work. I will say that all the teachers I remember as great loved teaching, and kept a positive attitude even when they felt like crap. It is hard to care about a class, when the teacher doesn't care how good/bad you do in it, and that is the problem with larger classes. The teachers don't know how or don't even try to convey enthusiasm about learning without having ample 1 on 1 time.
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I really could see a movie being made about this guy :p
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I have to consistently disagree with people who say that the current academic system is "deeply flawed." Obviously there could be substantial improvements but I think how it is now is acceptable.
I'm in the sciences so maybe its different, but you can't really get away with bullshitting. If you're a student with a high GPA it means you put in an immense amount of work, either that or you're a genius. Most of the time it's the former. In science at any legit university you need to know you're shit and the only way to get by is to study hard.
Humanities are apparently a different story, but even then a competent professor would know your capabilities by speaking with you, and by reading things that you actually wrote.
On an unrelated note, imagine the shitstorm this guy could cause if he released the names and work that he and or his "business" has done over the years. Thousands of people could get their degrees revoked and lose their jobs it would be madness. My evil side wants him to do it, just for the lulz. I personally wouldn't feel safe trusting some random guy, who at any time could out me. Imagine if you're defending your thesis and then the professors become aware that you didn't even write it. That would be bad.
Also, funny story: One of my professors (very recently) caught some kids cheating on the exam (their answers were identical and wrong lol) he was nice enough to not immediately get them kicked out, instead he announced to the class that those who had cheated could turn themselves in and he would only fail them on that exam. Needless to say he had more people show up than the suspected cheaters.
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On November 18 2010 10:57 MadVillain wrote:
I have to consistently disagree with people who say that the current academic system is "deeply flawed." Obviously there could be substantial improvements but I think how it is now is acceptable.
I'm in the sciences so maybe its different, but you can't really get away with bullshitting. If you're a student with a high GPA it means you put in an immense amount of work, either that or you're a genius. Most of the time it's the former. In science at any legit university you need to know you're shit and the only way to get by is to study hard.
The educational system was built to supply factories with competent employees to run them. The concept was, people would go to college to learn and become educated enough to work at factories. In return for going to college they gained "job security" as in they could be fairly certain that they could hold the job for however long they wanted to work there, and not have to worry about being laid off.
Well, times have changes. People are no longer granted the same "job security" and the jobs that pay for people to simply go to work and put in time are becoming outsourced or the pay reduced considerably. The jobs that pay well involve different skills now than they did many years ago. The education system hasn't changed at all to accommodate this, which is sad considering how much the world has changed.
I don't know what school you went to, but I went to GT for a couple of years (30k a semester for powerpoints got me to leave), and most of my friends and I "bullshitted" our way to 3.0+ GPAs. You don't have to "know" anything, you just need to know where to look for the right information. 1hr per class per week definitely isn't an immense amount of work.
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Honestly, if he isn't going to stop, I'd like to see him jack up prices to the point where it hurts for people to cheat.
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You don't go to a uni to write stupid essays or learn anything, you go there for the name value and the value a degree from there holds in the job market.
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EPT
