|
http://chronicle.com/article/article-content/125329/
The chronicle posted an articled called "The Shadow Scholar" in which an anonymous writer talks about getting paid by college students from all over who ask him to write their essays for them, for a price of course. The interesting part to me is that this extends even to the levels of PhD thesises (thesi?) where grad students cannot write for the life of them.
In the article, he admits that he is one of the reasons of failing ethics in the academic system, but also draws interesting points toward how the system is organized and how it encourages such behavior with people who have cash to spare. Anyway, read for yourself!
Thanks to krazymunky on tl who posted it on fb and i stole it lol
+ Show Spoiler +The Shadow Scholar The man who writes your students' papers tells his story 5713-Dante
Jonathan Barkat for The Chronicle Review Enlarge Image close 5713-Dante
Jonathan Barkat for The Chronicle Review
By Ed Dante
Editor's note: Ed Dante is a pseudonym for a writer who lives on the East Coast. Through a literary agent, he approached The Chronicle wanting to tell the story of how he makes a living writing papers for a custom-essay company and to describe the extent of student cheating he has observed. In the course of editing his article, The Chronicle reviewed correspondence Dante had with clients and some of the papers he had been paid to write. In the article published here, some details of the assignment he describes have been altered to protect the identity of the student.
The request came in by e-mail around 2 in the afternoon. It was from a previous customer, and she had urgent business. I quote her message here verbatim (if I had to put up with it, so should you): "You did me business ethics propsal for me I need propsal got approved pls can you will write me paper?"
I've gotten pretty good at interpreting this kind of correspondence. The client had attached a document from her professor with details about the paper. She needed the first section in a week. Seventy-five pages.
I told her no problem.
It truly was no problem. In the past year, I've written roughly 5,000 pages of scholarly literature, most on very tight deadlines. But you won't find my name on a single paper. Related Content
* Live Chat With an Academic Ghostwriter * Cheating Goes Global as Essay Mills Multiply
Enlarge Image 5713-Dante 2
Jonathan Barkat for The Chronicle Review close 5713-Dante 2
Jonathan Barkat for The Chronicle Review
I've written toward a master's degree in cognitive psychology, a Ph.D. in sociology, and a handful of postgraduate credits in international diplomacy. I've worked on bachelor's degrees in hospitality, business administration, and accounting. I've written for courses in history, cinema, labor relations, pharmacology, theology, sports management, maritime security, airline services, sustainability, municipal budgeting, marketing, philosophy, ethics, Eastern religion, postmodern architecture, anthropology, literature, and public administration. I've attended three dozen online universities. I've completed 12 graduate theses of 50 pages or more. All for someone else.
You've never heard of me, but there's a good chance that you've read some of my work. I'm a hired gun, a doctor of everything, an academic mercenary. My customers are your students. I promise you that. Somebody in your classroom uses a service that you can't detect, that you can't defend against, that you may not even know exists.
I work at an online company that generates tens of thousands of dollars a month by creating original essays based on specific instructions provided by cheating students. I've worked there full time since 2004. On any day of the academic year, I am working on upward of 20 assignments.
In the midst of this great recession, business is booming. At busy times, during midterms and finals, my company's staff of roughly 50 writers is not large enough to satisfy the demands of students who will pay for our work and claim it as their own.
You would be amazed by the incompetence of your students' writing. I have seen the word "desperate" misspelled every way you can imagine. And these students truly are desperate. They couldn't write a convincing grocery list, yet they are in graduate school. They really need help. They need help learning and, separately, they need help passing their courses. But they aren't getting it.
For those of you who have ever mentored a student through the writing of a dissertation, served on a thesis-review committee, or guided a graduate student through a formal research process, I have a question: Do you ever wonder how a student who struggles to formulate complete sentences in conversation manages to produce marginally competent research? How does that student get by you?
I live well on the desperation, misery, and incompetence that your educational system has created. Granted, as a writer, I could earn more; certainly there are ways to earn less. But I never struggle to find work. And as my peers trudge through thankless office jobs that seem more intolerable with every passing month of our sustained recession, I am on pace for my best year yet. I will make roughly $66,000 this year. Not a king's ransom, but higher than what many actual educators are paid.
Of course, I know you are aware that cheating occurs. But you have no idea how deeply this kind of cheating penetrates the academic system, much less how to stop it. Last summer The New York Times reported that 61 percent of undergraduates have admitted to some form of cheating on assignments and exams. Yet there is little discussion about custom papers and how they differ from more-detectable forms of plagiarism, or about why students cheat in the first place.
It is my hope that this essay will initiate such a conversation. As for me, I'm planning to retire. I'm tired of helping you make your students look competent.
It is late in the semester when the business student contacts me, a time when I typically juggle deadlines and push out 20 to 40 pages a day. I had written a short research proposal for her a few weeks before, suggesting a project that connected a surge of unethical business practices to the patterns of trade liberalization. The proposal was approved, and now I had six days to complete the assignment. This was not quite a rush order, which we get top dollar to write. This assignment would be priced at a standard $2,000, half of which goes in my pocket.
A few hours after I had agreed to write the paper, I received the following e-mail: "sending sorces for ur to use thanx."
I did not reply immediately. One hour later, I received another message:
"did u get the sorce I send
please where you are now?
Desprit to pass spring projict"
Not only was this student going to be a constant thorn in my side, but she also communicated in haiku, each less decipherable than the one before it. I let her know that I was giving her work the utmost attention, that I had received her sources, and that I would be in touch if I had any questions. Then I put it aside.
From my experience, three demographic groups seek out my services: the English-as-second-language student; the hopelessly deficient student; and the lazy rich kid.
For the last, colleges are a perfect launching ground—they are built to reward the rich and to forgive them their laziness. Let's be honest: The successful among us are not always the best and the brightest, and certainly not the most ethical. My favorite customers are those with an unlimited supply of money and no shortage of instructions on how they would like to see their work executed. While the deficient student will generally not know how to ask for what he wants until he doesn't get it, the lazy rich student will know exactly what he wants. He is poised for a life of paying others and telling them what to do. Indeed, he is acquiring all the skills he needs to stay on top.
As for the first two types of students—the ESL and the hopelessly deficient—colleges are utterly failing them. Students who come to American universities from other countries find that their efforts to learn a new language are confounded not only by cultural difficulties but also by the pressures of grading. The focus on evaluation rather than education means that those who haven't mastered English must do so quickly or suffer the consequences. My service provides a particularly quick way to "master" English. And those who are hopelessly deficient—a euphemism, I admit—struggle with communication in general.
Two days had passed since I last heard from the business student. Overnight I had received 14 e-mails from her. She had additional instructions for the assignment, such as "but more again please make sure they are a good link betwee the leticture review and all the chapter and the benfet of my paper. finally do you think the level of this work? how match i can get it?"
I'll admit, I didn't fully understand that one.
It was followed by some clarification: "where u are can you get my messages? Please I pay a lot and dont have ao to faile I strated to get very worry."
Her messages had arrived between 2 a.m. and 6 a.m. Again I assured her I had the matter under control.
It was true. At this point, there are few academic challenges that I find intimidating. You name it, I've been paid to write about it.
Customers' orders are endlessly different yet strangely all the same. No matter what the subject, clients want to be assured that their assignment is in capable hands. It would be terrible to think that your Ivy League graduate thesis was riding on the work ethic and perspicacity of a public-university slacker. So part of my job is to be whatever my clients want me to be. I say yes when I am asked if I have a Ph.D. in sociology. I say yes when I am asked if I have professional training in industrial/organizational psychology. I say yes when asked if I have ever designed a perpetual-motion-powered time machine and documented my efforts in a peer-reviewed journal.
The subject matter, the grade level, the college, the course—these things are irrelevant to me. Prices are determined per page and are based on how long I have to complete the assignment. As long as it doesn't require me to do any math or video-documented animal husbandry, I will write anything.
I have completed countless online courses. Students provide me with passwords and user names so I can access key documents and online exams. In some instances, I have even contributed to weekly online discussions with other students in the class.
I have become a master of the admissions essay. I have written these for undergraduate, master's, and doctoral programs, some at elite universities. I can explain exactly why you're Brown material, why the Wharton M.B.A. program would benefit from your presence, how certain life experiences have prepared you for the rigors of your chosen course of study. I do not mean to be insensitive, but I can't tell you how many times I've been paid to write about somebody helping a loved one battle cancer. I've written essays that could be adapted into Meryl Streep movies.
I do a lot of work for seminary students. I like seminary students. They seem so blissfully unaware of the inherent contradiction in paying somebody to help them cheat in courses that are largely about walking in the light of God and providing an ethical model for others to follow. I have been commissioned to write many a passionate condemnation of America's moral decay as exemplified by abortion, gay marriage, or the teaching of evolution. All in all, we may presume that clerical authorities see these as a greater threat than the plagiarism committed by the future frocked.
With respect to America's nurses, fear not. Our lives are in capable hands—just hands that can't write a lick. Nursing students account for one of my company's biggest customer bases. I've written case-management plans, reports on nursing ethics, and essays on why nurse practitioners are lighting the way to the future of medicine. I've even written pharmaceutical-treatment courses, for patients who I hope were hypothetical.
I, who have no name, no opinions, and no style, have written so many papers at this point, including legal briefs, military-strategy assessments, poems, lab reports, and, yes, even papers on academic integrity, that it's hard to determine which course of study is most infested with cheating. But I'd say education is the worst. I've written papers for students in elementary-education programs, special-education majors, and ESL-training courses. I've written lesson plans for aspiring high-school teachers, and I've synthesized reports from notes that customers have taken during classroom observations. I've written essays for those studying to become school administrators, and I've completed theses for those on course to become principals. In the enormous conspiracy that is student cheating, the frontline intelligence community is infiltrated by double agents. (Future educators of America, I know who you are.)
As the deadline for the business-ethics paper approaches, I think about what's ahead of me. Whenever I take on an assignment this large, I get a certain physical sensation. My body says: Are you sure you want to do this again? You know how much it hurt the last time. You know this student will be with you for a long time. You know you will become her emergency contact, her guidance counselor and life raft. You know that for the 48 hours that you dedicate to writing this paper, you will cease all human functions but typing, you will Google until the term has lost all meaning, and you will drink enough coffee to fuel a revolution in a small Central American country.
But then there's the money, the sense that I must capitalize on opportunity, and even a bit of a thrill in seeing whether I can do it.
And I can. It's not implausible to write a 75-page paper in two days. It's just miserable. I don't need much sleep, and when I get cranking, I can churn out four or five pages an hour. First I lay out the sections of an assignment—introduction, problem statement, methodology, literature review, findings, conclusion—whatever the instructions call for. Then I start Googling.
I haven't been to a library once since I started doing this job. Amazon is quite generous about free samples. If I can find a single page from a particular text, I can cobble that into a report, deducing what I don't know from customer reviews and publisher blurbs. Google Scholar is a great source for material, providing the abstract of nearly any journal article. And of course, there's Wikipedia, which is often my first stop when dealing with unfamiliar subjects. Naturally one must verify such material elsewhere, but I've taken hundreds of crash courses this way.
After I've gathered my sources, I pull out usable quotes, cite them, and distribute them among the sections of the assignment. Over the years, I've refined ways of stretching papers. I can write a four-word sentence in 40 words. Just give me one phrase of quotable text, and I'll produce two pages of ponderous explanation. I can say in 10 pages what most normal people could say in a paragraph.
I've also got a mental library of stock academic phrases: "A close consideration of the events which occurred in ____ during the ____ demonstrate that ____ had entered into a phase of widespread cultural, social, and economic change that would define ____ for decades to come." Fill in the blanks using words provided by the professor in the assignment's instructions.
How good is the product created by this process? That depends—on the day, my mood, how many other assignments I am working on. It also depends on the customer, his or her expectations, and the degree to which the completed work exceeds his or her abilities. I don't ever edit my assignments. That way I get fewer customer requests to "dumb it down." So some of my work is great. Some of it is not so great. Most of my clients do not have the wherewithal to tell the difference, which probably means that in most cases the work is better than what the student would have produced on his or her own. I've actually had customers thank me for being clever enough to insert typos. "Nice touch," they'll say.
I've read enough academic material to know that I'm not the only bullshit artist out there. I think about how Dickens got paid per word and how, as a result, Bleak House is ... well, let's be diplomatic and say exhaustive. Dickens is a role model for me.
So how does someone become a custom-paper writer? The story of how I got into this job may be instructive. It is mostly about the tremendous disappointment that awaited me in college.
My distaste for the early hours and regimented nature of high school was tempered by the promise of the educational community ahead, with its free exchange of ideas and access to great minds. How dispiriting to find out that college was just another place where grades were grubbed, competition overshadowed personal growth, and the threat of failure was used to encourage learning.
Although my university experience did not live up to its vaunted reputation, it did lead me to where I am today. I was raised in an upper-middle-class family, but I went to college in a poor neighborhood. I fit in really well: After paying my tuition, I didn't have a cent to my name. I had nothing but a meal plan and my roommate's computer. But I was determined to write for a living, and, moreover, to spend these extremely expensive years learning how to do so. When I completed my first novel, in the summer between sophomore and junior years, I contacted the English department about creating an independent study around editing and publishing it. I was received like a mental patient. I was told, "There's nothing like that here." I was told that I could go back to my classes, sit in my lectures, and fill out Scantron tests until I graduated.
I didn't much care for my classes, though. I slept late and spent the afternoons working on my own material. Then a funny thing happened. Here I was, begging anybody in authority to take my work seriously. But my classmates did. They saw my abilities and my abundance of free time. They saw a value that the university did not.
It turned out that my lazy, Xanax-snorting, Miller-swilling classmates were thrilled to pay me to write their papers. And I was thrilled to take their money. Imagine you are crumbling under the weight of university-issued parking tickets and self-doubt when a frat boy offers you cash to write about Plato. Doing that job was a no-brainer. Word of my services spread quickly, especially through the fraternities. Soon I was receiving calls from strangers who wanted to commission my work. I was a writer!
Nearly a decade later, students, not publishers, still come from everywhere to find me.
I work hard for a living. I'm nice to people. But I understand that in simple terms, I'm the bad guy. I see where I'm vulnerable to ethical scrutiny.
But pointing the finger at me is too easy. Why does my business thrive? Why do so many students prefer to cheat rather than do their own work?
Say what you want about me, but I am not the reason your students cheat.
You know what's never happened? I've never had a client complain that he'd been expelled from school, that the originality of his work had been questioned, that some disciplinary action had been taken. As far as I know, not one of my customers has ever been caught.
With just two days to go, I was finally ready to throw myself into the business assignment. I turned off my phone, caged myself in my office, and went through the purgatory of cramming the summation of a student's alleged education into a weekend. Try it sometime. After the 20th hour on a single subject, you have an almost-out-of-body experience.
My client was thrilled with my work. She told me that she would present the chapter to her mentor and get back to me with our next steps. Two weeks passed, by which time the assignment was but a distant memory, obscured by the several hundred pages I had written since. On a Wednesday evening, I received the following e-mail:
"Thanx u so much for the chapter is going very good the porfesser likes it but wants the folloing suggestions please what do you thing?:
"'The hypothesis is interesting but I'd like to see it a bit more focused. Choose a specific connection and try to prove it.'
"What shoudwe say?"
This happens a lot. I get paid per assignment. But with longer papers, the student starts to think of me as a personal educational counselor. She paid me to write a one-page response to her professor, and then she paid me to revise her paper. I completed each of these assignments, sustaining the voice that the student had established and maintaining the front of competence from some invisible location far beneath the ivory tower.
The 75-page paper on business ethics ultimately expanded into a 160-page graduate thesis, every word of which was written by me. I can't remember the name of my client, but it's her name on my work. We collaborated for months. As with so many other topics I tackle, the connection between unethical business practices and trade liberalization became a subtext to my everyday life.
So, of course, you can imagine my excitement when I received the good news:
"thanx so much for uhelp ican going to graduate to now".
|
Im not surprised that something like this is happening... I'd gladly pay someone a reasonable amount to have my exams written and im not even that rich. universities are just too competitive and exhausting these days...
|
[B]On November 18 2010 04:23 shindigs wrote: The interesting part to me is that this extends even to the levels of PhD thesises (thesi?)
I believe the plural is the same as the singular, i can't remember off the top of my head.
This stuff has been happening for years and years, friends doing homework for each other, scholars being paid to "correct" papers (they usually just re-write it for you) and directly stealing old papers.
Unfortunately, most adjudicators (the people who mark papers) don't have an opportunity to read other materials from the student and thus have no way to check whether the paper was written by the student or ghost written. It is the responsibility of the teacher to read over the papers and check they were written by the student, and when you have 50 students papers to read... thats hard to do.
|
Hmm, I need to utilize these services so I can play SC even more.
|
On November 18 2010 04:27 CanucksJC wrote: Im not surprised that something like this is happening... I'd gladly pay someone a reasonable amount to have my exams written and im not even that rich. universities are just too competitive and exhausting these days...
so you'd rather not earn your degree? thats more of a reflection on you than your uni.
You go to further education to learn and get a better job. If a lawyer had someone else write all their papers, how would they ever be able to do their job? Sorry, but your statement makes me think very badly of you, I have never cheated in my life and have never considered it an option. Not because "its wrong" but because I want to EARN my accolades so that i can feel proud of them.
|
On November 18 2010 04:28 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +[B]On November 18 2010 04:23 shindigs wrote: The interesting part to me is that this extends even to the levels of PhD thesises (thesi?) I believe the plural is the same as the singular, i can't remember off the top of my head.
thesis theses
|
This guy is nothing short of brilliant to say the least. I'd its one thing I've noticed it's how awful people write in university. Yea it's cheating and yea he perpetuates it but our education system has been fail for years.
|
Honestly I'm not surprised in the slightest. Looking at the students even in my school who are supposed to be top engineering students, I'm amazed at how poor their writing skills are. I don't even want to imagine the graduating high school seniors. The use of texting since they were in 6th grade does not help them improve any technical or creating writing skills at all. It's only going to get worse.
|
It's like paying Cella to powerlevel your account to Diamond.
|
On November 18 2010 04:31 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 04:27 CanucksJC wrote: Im not surprised that something like this is happening... I'd gladly pay someone a reasonable amount to have my exams written and im not even that rich. universities are just too competitive and exhausting these days... so you'd rather not earn your degree? thats more of a reflection on you than your uni. You go to further education to learn and get a better job. If a lawyer had someone else write all their papers, how would they ever be able to do their job? Sorry, but your statement makes me think very badly of you, I have never cheated in my life and have never considered it an option. Not because "its wrong" but because I want to EARN my accolades so that i can feel proud of them.
well thats a tool statement. Just because I don't want to waste my time writing papers for a class I already know stuff about(im looking at you fucking english) doesn't mean I don't know it, I just don't want to waste my time.
And before you say anything about me not earning anything, I was like the guy in the OP during High School, getting paid to let people cheat off me.
|
This really is not surprising, the focus on getting good test and project scores instead of learning the material and growing as an intellectual has plagued my education since middle school. I grew up in Florida where half of my classroom time was at times devoted to learning how to pass state mandated assessment tests instead of learning things that were actually useful to me in the real world. Unfortunately people who struggle in school would turn to something like this because the educational system has failed them in a way. Or they are just lazy rich kids who can pay their way to a degree with no real consequences.
|
Thanks for posting. His life and business are riveting stuff and I can certainly relate to the insanity of cramming out pages and pages of almost-due assignment.
The obvious next step for this guy is to write a book about the subject; I'd buy it for sure.
|
Very interesting, and I would understand why people do this for english classes... some people are just terrible at english. The worst part is, (I believe) it's because of the parents: if a child reads books of increasing difficulty he'll do fine in english or any other language for that matter. Books are amazing but schools teach (mostly) terrible books with garbage morals. My sister made me read the Hobbit when I was young and I got hooked on fantasy books. I don't read that much, just to kill time in the bus/metro on the way to school or between classes, and it's enough make me better than average in english, and my first language is french.
And then people who hire him to do program-specific essays...blow my mind. What are you doing in that course if you don't find it interesting? Your future life is going to suck if you go in a profession you hate with no actual knowledge about it.
|
On November 18 2010 04:43 Trowabarton756 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 04:31 emythrel wrote:On November 18 2010 04:27 CanucksJC wrote: Im not surprised that something like this is happening... I'd gladly pay someone a reasonable amount to have my exams written and im not even that rich. universities are just too competitive and exhausting these days... so you'd rather not earn your degree? thats more of a reflection on you than your uni. You go to further education to learn and get a better job. If a lawyer had someone else write all their papers, how would they ever be able to do their job? Sorry, but your statement makes me think very badly of you, I have never cheated in my life and have never considered it an option. Not because "its wrong" but because I want to EARN my accolades so that i can feel proud of them. well thats a tool statement. Just because I don't want to waste my time writing papers for a class I already know stuff about(im looking at you fucking english) doesn't mean I don't know it, I just don't want to waste my time. And before you say anything about me not earning anything, I was like the guy in the OP during High School, getting paid to let people cheat off me.
Sorry to break it to you but studying well in highschool does not give you a moral right to let other people do your work for you in college.
It's cheating. Period.
|
I find it hard to believe that this dude can write a quality report on nearly anything. Sure it's simple enough to write 5 pages an hour but that doesn't mean it will be any good. Each field has it's own set of rules you need to abide by and there are complex concepts that need to be understood and researched before you can start writing a decent paper about them. There's no way any of these papers are getting decent grades on any hard major at a credible university.
I don't know a single person who does this.
|
Netherlands45349 Posts
While this is not news it is shocking how that guy is seriously has a FULLTIME job working as a gun for hire, it is also very interesting to see it fromh is point of view. Judging by how he wrote this article he could be an incredibly good writer.
|
This is not real news. But I seriously doubt any person who does this for a living can produce work with the kind of quality I satisfy with. However, if a student is close to failing, perhaps hiring someone can get a boost.
Of course it's cheating...
|
Vatican City State1650 Posts
eh, I bet I can do this shit too, but 66k a year isn't much. -_-
|
On November 18 2010 04:59 orgolove wrote: eh, I bet I can do this shit too, but 66k a year isn't much. -_- It's enough to live off of for doing little work.
I can't believe people are so lazy that they can't even write their own essays.
|
I think this is a good thing, school has always been about just writting mindless essays instead of actually learning. You are just forced to spend time doing something you already know how to do, with no real reward. I hate having to practice what i'm already perfect at. Like doing some sort of math 20 times when i already know how to do it. It's just a waste of my time.
I wouldnt care if anyone did this, since it doesnt really affect me.
|
Not only is it cheating, it devalues your degree and all your peers. If your college results are not consistent with your true ability, employers will be less confident about hiring and may resort to other signals.
I can't really think of a way to solve this. I guess you could make it a misdemeanor to run one of these sites, but there are probably constitutional issues involved with that. Maybe require essays to be written in special programs.
|
This is funny stuff. Either the guy is only helping with low-quality work at junky universities, or he's only working in departments that have nothing to do with mine (math). A research paper in math means a paper proving some result which was previously an open problem; if he could crank those out at however many pages/hour, he would be famous. Similar things go for lots of technical areas, like physics, computer science, engineering, etc.
I think the biggest telling sign is his salary. $66k a year is not terrible, but if he was capable of getting a Ph.D. at a good (read: top) university in any reasonable subject, he'd be able to make considerably more money with no particular effort.
|
On November 18 2010 04:52 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 04:43 Trowabarton756 wrote:On November 18 2010 04:31 emythrel wrote:On November 18 2010 04:27 CanucksJC wrote: Im not surprised that something like this is happening... I'd gladly pay someone a reasonable amount to have my exams written and im not even that rich. universities are just too competitive and exhausting these days... so you'd rather not earn your degree? thats more of a reflection on you than your uni. You go to further education to learn and get a better job. If a lawyer had someone else write all their papers, how would they ever be able to do their job? Sorry, but your statement makes me think very badly of you, I have never cheated in my life and have never considered it an option. Not because "its wrong" but because I want to EARN my accolades so that i can feel proud of them. well thats a tool statement. Just because I don't want to waste my time writing papers for a class I already know stuff about(im looking at you fucking english) doesn't mean I don't know it, I just don't want to waste my time. And before you say anything about me not earning anything, I was like the guy in the OP during High School, getting paid to let people cheat off me. Sorry to break it to you but studying well in highschool does not give you a moral right to let other people do your work for you in college. It's cheating. Period.
Thanks for again making assumptions, I write all my own papers in college and besides don't talk about morality lol, morality is all in the eyes of the beholder.
|
On November 18 2010 05:11 blipster8 wrote: This is funny stuff. Either the guy is only helping with low-quality work at junky universities, or he's only working in departments that have nothing to do with mine (math). A research paper in math means a paper proving some result which was previously an open problem; if he could crank those out at however many pages/hour, he would be famous. Similar things go for lots of technical areas, like physics, computer science, engineering, etc.
I think the biggest telling sign is his salary. $66k a year is not terrible, but if he was capable of getting a Ph.D. at a good (read: top) university in any reasonable subject, he'd be able to make considerably more money with no particular effort.
He says in the article that he does nearly everything, but that he doesn't do mathematics.
Interesting read. Of course everyone knows this exists (of course not to what extent), but the perspective of the ghostwriter himself is truly interesting.
|
People should learn to write their own essays. And if you already know everything in the class but are too lazy to write an essay, then why can't you write your own essay, if it's so easy?
|
If I didn't have a huge issue with the morality of this field of work, I would LOVE to do this for a living. I feel a lot like this guy when I write papers, it gives me a huge rush and satisfaction.
I once was offered a good bit of money in high school to write a 12 page research paper for another student, and I actually did about half of it, but I ultimately felt like it was the wrong thing to do. Despite my need and desire for the money I could have received, I deleted the work and gave the person some lame excuse as to why I couldn't do it.
Curse you, morals
|
Russian Federation410 Posts
It used to be "The poor pay twice", now it's "The lazy".
|
I condone cheating to getting ahead in life. You live only once and well. I personally could never give a fuck about anothers opinion unless it was important to me. I don't see why so many people are upset by this. Politicians do it every day and so do big businesses. If you want to get ahead you cut corners. Morals are just walls to deter you from cheating others for personal gain. The only real consequence is the damnation you give your self which is mostly attributed through childhood . Do what you will as all evil and good are perceived by none other then your self.
|
HAHA that 'genius' at writing can write anything except for math. I highly doubt he could write anything close to a mathematical paper because you have to really KNOW what you are writing about.
(Only only say this because I'm studying math ATM )
By the way 66K is a pathetic sum of money considering he labours hours and hours without end and is constantly being harrassed by lazy idiots.
|
I was reading an article about how students take Ritalin to enhance performance at school also ;its a french article so useless to post
|
Why doesnt he get a law degree or something? Hell, I graduated this year with a marketing degree and am getting 80k per year.
|
I don't see how he could write college-level papers on hard science subjects with just a few hours of googling, unless he really is a genius. The average paper I see has 10 technical terms in the first sentence, which makes utterly no sense unless you know their definitions which are often whole paragraphs themselves, sometimes containing even more technical terms. Try to fit the terms that appear important into random sentences and you'll end up with absolute garbage that makes the submitter look like he didn't learn a damn thing at college.
I conclude that he writes mostly for humanities courses, in which opinion is everything (as long as its not your own, so you can name drop).
|
On November 18 2010 05:13 Trowabarton756 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 04:52 StarBrift wrote:On November 18 2010 04:43 Trowabarton756 wrote:On November 18 2010 04:31 emythrel wrote:On November 18 2010 04:27 CanucksJC wrote: Im not surprised that something like this is happening... I'd gladly pay someone a reasonable amount to have my exams written and im not even that rich. universities are just too competitive and exhausting these days... so you'd rather not earn your degree? thats more of a reflection on you than your uni. You go to further education to learn and get a better job. If a lawyer had someone else write all their papers, how would they ever be able to do their job? Sorry, but your statement makes me think very badly of you, I have never cheated in my life and have never considered it an option. Not because "its wrong" but because I want to EARN my accolades so that i can feel proud of them. well thats a tool statement. Just because I don't want to waste my time writing papers for a class I already know stuff about(im looking at you fucking english) doesn't mean I don't know it, I just don't want to waste my time. And before you say anything about me not earning anything, I was like the guy in the OP during High School, getting paid to let people cheat off me. Sorry to break it to you but studying well in highschool does not give you a moral right to let other people do your work for you in college. It's cheating. Period. Thanks for again making assumptions, I write all my own papers in college and besides don't talk about morality lol, morality is all in the eyes of the beholder.
No, it's not. Morality is defined by society and the current state of human culture. It is possible for certain things to be moral to some cultures and immoral to others, but an individual alone can not define what is moral.
|
I wrote a couple of assignments and essay for my friends as well, for about $400 a piece; my services didn't come cheap but I guaranteed high distinction
|
Pretty interesting, I see a lot of this happening, more within the school then people using out side sources.. I feel like 66 is a low number.. especially when he said he got 2 grand for doing one thesis...im guessing he may just get 5-10 page papers... which honestly probably do not take long at all, I can write 10 pages in roughly 3 hours.. maybe a bit more (it comes down to the subject) but I am sure after writing so many a lot of that filler text knowledge really helps you speed up the process. I just figured the number he made per year would be higher.
|
Morals and ethics can come from different things, depending on what you'll believe.
*Shrug* I've edited a few essays and SOPs for friends. Mostly by taking their badly written papers and substituting equivalent sentences or paragraphs that mean the same thing (or rather, what the guy's actually trying to say). Sometimes, the paper itself is not the work, but rather the presentation of the work (e.g. research), and English is a barrier for some people.
|
This guy did an interview on NPR a couple years ago, and came off as a real prick then as well. One the most telling quotes from him was, "Yeah, if they piss me off or anything, I'll sometimes turn them in to their professor".
He clearly has about zero character and said about as much in his interview then and his article now.
|
Universities are glorified High Schools... if you can memorize things you can get an A+ if you know why something works but cannot memorize the correct terms, say hello to a B.
Sad but true... every test I have written for my university so far has me getting 100% on short and long answer questions (the "explain theory" questions) but when it is "which one of these is not one of the marketing forces?" multiple choice shit... I do a lot worse... 60-70% correct.
But in the real world will I ever need to know how to calculate the Confidence interval of a statistic by hand, know how to find the NPV of some investment by hand? Hell no, I will use a computer program to do that... but knowing what a CI or NPV means will be important. Too bad we aren't tested on knowing what something means and are tested on how to find something useless.
|
I hate how nearly everyone responding to this has a, "holier than thou" point of view. You do not know the writers situation or the customers situation.
I also hate how education works in this country. I am rather poor at math due to slacking in lower grade levels. My GPA was a 1.9 but I scored a 2120 on my SAT. I got accepted to a music school for symphonic composition but I couldn't actually get into the full school because of my GPA. If I want to, and can, compose music for a living, why the fuck should I have to study higher calculus? Don't get me wrong, I love reason and math, but it honestly makes no sense that someone who IS going to be writing music for a living should have to know that. I tested out of music theory I, II, III and IV and I know music does not require that. Colleges should spend more time specialized with the student and field of choice.
Instead I'm sitting in a community college with a bunch of retards because I put my self in a place I couldn't get out of with a GPA, but yet Indiana University's Board of Music told me I was one of their most progressed prospects last fall.
|
On November 18 2010 06:22 Insanious wrote: But in the real world will I ever need to know how to calculate the Confidence interval of a statistic by hand, know how to find the NPV of some investment by hand? Hell no, I will use a computer program to do that... but knowing what a CI or NPV means will be important. Too bad we aren't tested on knowing what something means and are tested on how to find something useless.
Knowing what something means is worthless. Knowing how to apply that knowledge is useful. Knowing what the result of that application means is worth a decent salary. Figuring out better ways to solve complex problems is worth millions. Take your pick, I find everything college teaches to be over-hyped and meaningless. Reading and internships give a better education than the current system can achieve.
On the topic of the ghost writer's legitimacy, 20 pages of writing a day can't be that hard, especially considering the number of years he has been doing it.
|
On November 18 2010 06:19 FecalFrown wrote: This guy did an interview on NPR a couple years ago, and came off as a real prick then as well. One the most telling quotes from him was, "Yeah, if they piss me off or anything, I'll sometimes turn them in to their professor".
He clearly has about zero character and said about as much in his interview then and his article now. You know these people don't actually deserve to have PHDs right? And I thought people were wondering why their post secondary educations were becoming less and less important and more and more expensive...Can you really wonder that now? People that can't even speak english or formulate a decent essay can have a phd because they've got money.
|
|
On November 18 2010 06:40 L0CUST. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 06:22 Insanious wrote: But in the real world will I ever need to know how to calculate the Confidence interval of a statistic by hand, know how to find the NPV of some investment by hand? Hell no, I will use a computer program to do that... but knowing what a CI or NPV means will be important. Too bad we aren't tested on knowing what something means and are tested on how to find something useless. Knowing what something means is worthless. Knowing how to apply that knowledge is useful. Knowing what the result of that application means is worth a decent salary. Figuring out better ways to solve complex problems is worth millions. Take your pick, I find everything college teaches to be over-hyped and meaningless. Reading and internships give a better education than the current system can achieve. On the topic of the ghost writer's legitimacy, 20 pages of writing a day can't be that hard, especially considering the number of years he has been doing it. My bad... what I meant then what "knowing how to figure out the CI of a statistic, something that SAS the leading statistic program currently used by the Canadian government can do in 1 click of a button is utterly worthless where knowing how that CI relates to the data in order to create a correct analysis = important"
how would I know... working for statistics Canada I NEVER have to do any calculations I learn in Stats 1 or Stats 2 in my work place... ever. Even though 100% of the questions on tests for Statis 1 and 2 are doing the calculations by hand. The theory behind the statics on the other hand I do use in my work place, how ever that is not tested upon in school.
Why? Because forumals = memorization = easy marking. Short/Long answer questions = thought = hard to mark.
Even simpler... In school I learn how to complete a formula but not how to analyze it. In work, I need to know how to analyze it and do not need to know how to complete the calculation. - - - -
Btw to me... understanding something and being able to apply that knowledge is the same thing. If I understand how computer parts fit together, means I can build one. If I have simply memorized the parts that go into a computer, I cannot build one.
|
On November 18 2010 04:31 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 04:27 CanucksJC wrote: Im not surprised that something like this is happening... I'd gladly pay someone a reasonable amount to have my exams written and im not even that rich. universities are just too competitive and exhausting these days... so you'd rather not earn your degree? thats more of a reflection on you than your uni. You go to further education to learn and get a better job. If a lawyer had someone else write all their papers, how would they ever be able to do their job? Sorry, but your statement makes me think very badly of you, I have never cheated in my life and have never considered it an option. Not because "its wrong" but because I want to EARN my accolades so that i can feel proud of them.
I think you would be in the minority honestly. I am a 3rd year chemistry major and if I can pay someone to write all my papers for English/History/*insert course name that has nothing do with my degree here* I will probably do it.
Sorry, but a fictional writer from 500 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with me, or my future.
|
I think the main things that add to cheating is general education and bad teachers.
I have to take around 90 units unrelated to my major to get a bachelors degree. Of those classes I don't think I gain anything significant from at least half of them. ATM I'm taking a literature analysis class that I just surf on my laptop every class and then turn in my homework that sparknotes aided me with at the end. I feel like if I paid attention I'd just be relearning everything I learned during high school. I spend maybe an hour looking over online notes for midterms which means I will probably get a B, but honestly if I got a C I'd be happy as I deserve an F for how much effort I used, but IMO I shouldn't have had to take the class in the first place.
On the other hand I'm taking a computer science course for my major that I spend probably 10 hours on the biweekly homework and maybe 2 hours studying for quizzes every week. In this class I'd also be happy with a C, not because I don't put in enough effort, but because the teacher is an awful lecturer and doesn't give help during labs. I feel like I'm having to teach myself and get a lot of my code from online, so why am I going to college again?
|
So if you're a professor, just have your students write a 2 page essay in class and see if it compares at all to what they've been handing in??
|
On November 18 2010 04:23 shindigs wrote: Thanks to krazymunky on tl who posted it on fb and i stole it lol
i actually stole it off another friend. i knew a couple of people who wrote papers for other people for money while in school. Im not sure if should blame the person who pays for the paper or the person who writes the essay for being unethical
|
The guy in the article is a sad story. His claims about "contributing to research" in graduate studies is laughable and his boasts about writing 75 pages in two days go to show he has not understood what University or graduate studies is about. One word: "revision."
This guy churns out tons of crap that he proudly holds up as being "un-edited," when the whole point of research is that it be constantly looked over, reshaped, challenged, edited, and made into a valuable contribution.
I realize he is simply exposing the depth of corruption in the system, but he shows quite clearly that much of this extends from his unwillingness to learn the point of University. The process of writing papers, reading, and being challenged in lectures and seminars is the point.
What makes me sad is how on-board TLers are about cheating. You don't understand the irony that you are cheating yourself, as in the following:
I am a 3rd year chemistry major and if I can someone to write all my papers for English/History/*insert course name that has nothing do with my degree here* I will probably do it.
The point of taking English and History and other stuff is to compliment your degree so you aren't a specialist who has no exposure to other disciplines and ideas before you go sit in a lab all day.
Think of how we all react to 5 year-old kids who are pushed into beauty pageants and made to look inhuman. That is what your brain looks like without breadth.
Sorry, but a fictional writer from 500 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with me, or my future.
How sadly mistaken you are. Shakespeare (whom I am assuming you are referencing) shaped the very language you use to communicate. The Science majors think History, Anthro, Philosophy, Literature, Cultural Studies, and all the other Arts are a load of crap and a waste of time. But all studies of science and math find their roots in the Arts.
Chronological Snobbery is what the above quote is, plain and simple...
|
i see more economical solutions out there than this guy. some sites are as low as $49 for an entire paper! this should make my college experience an entertaining one.
|
On November 18 2010 07:20 zaldinfox wrote:Show nested quote +Sorry, but a fictional writer from 500 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with me, or my future. How sadly mistaken you are. Shakespeare (whom I am assuming you are referencing) shaped the very language you use to communicate. The Science majors think History, Anthro, Philosophy, Literature, Cultural Studies, and all the other Arts are a load of crap and a waste of time. But all studies of science and math find their roots in the Arts. Chronological Snobbery is what the above quote is, plain and simple...
In my experience, most GE professors don't relate the material to outside its own area so it's hard to take the material seriously when you're not being taught how it relates to your field.
|
I don't really know how much to believe from that article.
A few hours after I had agreed to write the paper, I received the following e-mail: "sending sorces for ur to use thanx."
I did not reply immediately. One hour later, I received another message:
"did u get the sorce I send
please where you are now?
Desprit to pass spring projict"
That is so not a real quote from the student, no way.
|
On November 18 2010 04:28 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +[B]On November 18 2010 04:23 shindigs wrote: The interesting part to me is that this extends even to the levels of PhD thesises (thesi?) I believe the plural is the same as the singular, i can't remember off the top of my head. This stuff has been happening for years and years, friends doing homework for each other, scholars being paid to "correct" papers (they usually just re-write it for you) and directly stealing old papers. Unfortunately, most adjudicators (the people who mark papers) don't have an opportunity to read other materials from the student and thus have no way to check whether the paper was written by the student or ghost written. It is the responsibility of the teacher to read over the papers and check they were written by the student, and when you have 50 students papers to read... thats hard to do. I believe the plural is theses.
|
This is really crazy. I'm about to head off to college with the intent to learn, and it really irks me that people are using university as a stepping stone that they can just pay their way through. The idea that some of the people we label as the most intelligent and well-educated could have gotten there illegitimately.
|
On November 18 2010 07:20 zaldinfox wrote:The guy in the article is a sad story. His claims about "contributing to research" in graduate studies is laughable and his boasts about writing 75 pages in two days go to show he has not understood what University or graduate studies is about. One word: "revision." This guy churns out tons of crap that he proudly holds up as being "un-edited," when the whole point of research is that it be constantly looked over, reshaped, challenged, edited, and made into a valuable contribution. I realize he is simply exposing the depth of corruption in the system, but he shows quite clearly that much of this extends from his unwillingness to learn the point of University. The process of writing papers, reading, and being challenged in lectures and seminars is the point. What makes me sad is how on-board TLers are about cheating. You don't understand the irony that you are cheating yourself, as in the following: Show nested quote + I am a 3rd year chemistry major and if I can someone to write all my papers for English/History/*insert course name that has nothing do with my degree here* I will probably do it. The point of taking English and History and other stuff is to compliment your degree so you aren't a specialist who has no exposure to other disciplines and ideas before you go sit in a lab all day. Think of how we all react to 5 year-old kids who are pushed into beauty pageants and made to look inhuman. That is what your brain looks like without breadth. Show nested quote +Sorry, but a fictional writer from 500 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with me, or my future. How sadly mistaken you are. Shakespeare (whom I am assuming you are referencing) shaped the very language you use to communicate. The Science majors think History, Anthro, Philosophy, Literature, Cultural Studies, and all the other Arts are a load of crap and a waste of time. But all studies of science and math find their roots in the Arts. Chronological Snobbery is what the above quote is, plain and simple...
Breadth isn't the only thing a brain needs; a good brain needs more depth than breadth. The amount of knowledge one knows is bolstered from grade 1 to year 2 of college. This doesn't produce much respect from other intellectuals. Depth, which is built from year 3 of college and onwards is what sets apart people like Ben Carson from normal surgeons. I think the fact that place so much respect to these people who are supposedly "knowledgeable" in their respective fields is saddening.
|
On November 18 2010 07:38 Jonoman92 wrote:I don't really know how much to believe from that article. Show nested quote + A few hours after I had agreed to write the paper, I received the following e-mail: "sending sorces for ur to use thanx."
I did not reply immediately. One hour later, I received another message:
"did u get the sorce I send
please where you are now?
Desprit to pass spring projict"
That is so not a real quote from the student, no way. You would be suprised. Also he said most of the people he is talking about are either ESL, so english is very hard for them. Or they are just stupid and well english is hard for them too.
|
On November 18 2010 07:55 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 07:38 Jonoman92 wrote:I don't really know how much to believe from that article. A few hours after I had agreed to write the paper, I received the following e-mail: "sending sorces for ur to use thanx."
I did not reply immediately. One hour later, I received another message:
"did u get the sorce I send
please where you are now?
Desprit to pass spring projict"
That is so not a real quote from the student, no way. You would be suprised. Also he said most of the people he is talking about are either ESL, so english is very hard for them. Or they are just stupid and well english is hard for them too.
yeah either they're ESL or just someone typing really quickly. I have friends who cannot spell for their lives when they type quickly or chat on AIM/MSN. and since its not to the professor I dont think they're going to pay attention to the correct spelling or grammar in their letters.
I agree that taking breadth classes makes your learning diverse,but as a recent graduate, I do not think any of my electives/GEs helped me at all (except for grade boosting lol)
|
How convenient it is to blame "the system". It's equal parts education's shortcomings and the students' shortcomings.
In my opinion, it's all of culture itself that makes important things that are not a part of education.
|
It doesn't seem like a that hard job once you have done it a few years. You should have the general knowledge of the most common courses by that point. It actually seems like a fun job, something I would probably like to work as. Ethically it is wrong and I wouldn't buy the service since I want to learn the things myself, but as a job it seems like it would suit my tastes.
|
On November 18 2010 05:01 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 04:59 orgolove wrote: eh, I bet I can do this shit too, but 66k a year isn't much. -_- It's enough to live off of for doing little work. I can't believe people are so lazy that they can't even write their own essays.
I find it really hard to believe that you've never felt like just not writing a paper and doing something more useful with your time (like starcraft duhhh)
|
This was a great read, whoever this academic hitman is, what a legend!
|
On November 18 2010 08:11 krazymunky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 07:55 Insanious wrote:On November 18 2010 07:38 Jonoman92 wrote:I don't really know how much to believe from that article. A few hours after I had agreed to write the paper, I received the following e-mail: "sending sorces for ur to use thanx."
I did not reply immediately. One hour later, I received another message:
"did u get the sorce I send
please where you are now?
Desprit to pass spring projict"
That is so not a real quote from the student, no way. You would be suprised. Also he said most of the people he is talking about are either ESL, so english is very hard for them. Or they are just stupid and well english is hard for them too. yeah either they're ESL or just someone typing really quickly. I have friends who cannot spell for their lives when they type quickly or chat on AIM/MSN. and since its not to the professor I dont think they're going to pay attention to the correct spelling or grammar in their letters. I agree that taking breadth classes makes your learning diverse,but as a recent graduate, I do not think any of my electives/GEs helped me at all (except for grade boosting lol)
I think there's a pretty big difference between typing quickly and making mistakes. Typos happen and are excusable but when the person in question has no idea what the correct spelling (or in the case of the article, grammar) is I think we have a problem.
|
Russian Federation145 Posts
On November 18 2010 06:22 Insanious wrote: Universities are glorified High Schools... if you can memorize things you can get an A+ if you know why something works but cannot memorize the correct terms, say hello to a B.
Sad but true... every test I have written for my university so far has me getting 100% on short and long answer questions (the "explain theory" questions) but when it is "which one of these is not one of the marketing forces?" multiple choice shit... I do a lot worse... 60-70% correct.
But in the real world will I ever need to know how to calculate the Confidence interval of a statistic by hand, know how to find the NPV of some investment by hand? Hell no, I will use a computer program to do that... but knowing what a CI or NPV means will be important. Too bad we aren't tested on knowing what something means and are tested on how to find something useless. Anyone who has taken both, hard science classes such as calculus and calculus based physics and soft science classes such as statistics and psychology can tell you that there is a pretty fucking huge distinction in the workload required and amount of effort expected. Yea I could write my 5 page English 2 paper the night before and expect a solid B+, but if I tried to cram for even a lowly Phys 1 exam, the only thing I could ever hope for is a gigantic curve giving me a D- instead of an F. Then again, I go to a fairly strong engineering school.
Why do you think the writer refuses to do any math?
|
United States4126 Posts
I like this guy's tone of voice and it's really informative. It does get you questioning where our society's ethics are headed, but it's just one of those topics of discussion that get pushed aside because it doesn't garner enough attention.
|
Pretty much shits on my morals and lets everyone else get away with being lazy bums. Not like it was a big surprise, but damn.
What kind of toll is it going to take on a culture that can't even properly write one sentence -- at least something close as possible to it.
|
You get out what you put in, if you take the time to write essays about things you want to learn about rather than things you already know about, you'll actually find that essay-writing can be both easy and interesting at the same time.
Btw, there's not a chance in hell some Goon who's a professional faker could out write me in my subject, and this is the case for any higher-educational program that matters. He might fake-out a community college prof, good luck with the PH.D. professors at higher-echelon 4 year universities (who have 20 students or less a quarter). But admittedly, these professors are a dying breed.
|
As others have said, it's hard to believe he can write at a high level on such a broad range of topics. He gets by with writing fluff and bullshit, which professors at low and mid tier colleges feed on. Some people have a gift when it comes to writing. If you are good at something, why do it for free.
I also question the validity of those emails. I find it hard to believe anyone writes that poorly.
|
I wouldn't recommend using these services online to write papers for you. I remember I had a guildy from a few years back and he got lazy and decided to use some site that promised "unique original essays" to write a essay for him. They ended up copy and pasting one an essay they found online and the professor was easily able to bust him with turn it in or google. He got in pretty deep shit, not sure if he got expelled though.
|
On November 18 2010 09:22 crazeman wrote: I wouldn't recommend using these services online to write papers for you. I remember I had a guildy from a few years back and he got lazy and decided to use some site that promised "unique original essays" to write a essay for him. They ended up copy and pasting one an essay they found online and the professor was easily able to bust him with turn it in or google. He got in pretty deep shit, not sure if he got expelled though.
Being caught for Plagiarism or Academic dishonesty = GG Academic Career/Future opportunities
|
I am not sure what to think.
In all honestly, in high school teachers get to know you, and grade you accordingly. Some teachers may be subjective, but over the course of the school year, they know you, and what level of material can you produce. They know what you have learned, and how you approach problems. Isn't this what school is for? Education. Not just grades. Grades are awesome, and I think gives a general idea of the level of proficiency that you have. However, I believe a more accurate 'read' of your proficiency is just the teacher teaching you and getting to know you. They will then know how much you actually know.
I say this because I have done exams where I skip studying due to time constraints, and it seems to always backfire horribly. Did I not know the material. No. But did I deserve a significantly lower grade because of one section? I do not know.
Essentially, what I am saying is that the better education we get, the better we will be. Better means smaller ratio of students to professors. I mean, how much do you learn when you're in a class of 500. You're not going to go raise your hand up and ask questions. At least I wouldn't. Smaller classes, like 100 students, see me asks lots of questions. Furthermore, the professor will more easily get a read on the class.
|
As a history major all I do is write essays and I must admit I have been tempted to look into the ghost writer type things. I have not done it however or ever actually even looked into it, instead I do all of the painstaking research (only painstaking because I am researching stuff I already know solely to have sources within the context of the assignment) on my own and waste my life away doing it. I have been tempted to write smaller essays for friends because smaller ones are fairly easy, and the small sums of money I have been offered have seemingly made it worth it however I have not yet done that either.
|
I see where this is coming from since i can understand it myself. This semester i have three subjects, call them A, B and C. Every two weeks i get assigned to write two essays of 2k words each for subject A. 2k doesnt sound like alot but the difficulty is in cramming about 400 pages of textbook facts into those 2k words, its actually harder to write it short then to write it long. On top of this i get one new weekly practical assignment for subject B every week, so every two weeks is now 2 papers and 2 practical design assignments.
I worked my ass off and managed these on time so far, but then subject C enters the arena halfway through the semester with its first assignment. A 6k word essay about film analysis, which counts for 50% of my grade. This just screwed me over in so many ways, it required about 600 pages of book reading aswell. I did manage to deliver subject B and C's assignments on time, but missed two evaluation deadlines for subject A. Which leads me to now, i have caught up but i now have two new 2k word essays to be completed by 9 am friday, which is in about 30 hours, and im not even halfway done. All because that 6k essay set me back so majorly and accounted for so much of my grade.
If i fail to deliver an essay, i automaticly get an F in the class, or worse i get incomplete as i cannot take the exam in December. I would of easily have paid a decent sum for someone to write even one of my 2k essays when i got smacked with this about a month back maybe even both.
And no, we did not know the 6k word one was coming. It wasn't revealed this was the assignment until it was actually given, and we got two weeks to write it. Having a tough workload but having it consistently is fine by me, but throwing curveballs like this into it is just bad planning or a straight up dick move and could lead to people hiring someone to take your workload away from you.
|
I'd pay to have someone write my papers for me... Only if i were to get so tired of school and swamped with work though, currently I'm doing just great myself so there's no need for hiring someone to write for me.
|
The real questions are,
What law does this violate?
How do we throw this guy in jail?
|
On November 18 2010 10:26 Capook wrote: The real questions are,
What law does this violate?
How do we throw this guy in jail? the ghost writer isn't violating any laws. the students who plagiarize his work are up for explusion/suspension or w/e the school's rule is. There's no reason why he should be in jail
|
On November 18 2010 10:01 wunsun wrote: I am not sure what to think.
In all honestly, in high school teachers get to know you, and grade you accordingly. Some teachers may be subjective, but over the course of the school year, they know you, and what level of material can you produce. They know what you have learned, and how you approach problems. Isn't this what school is for? Education. Not just grades. Grades are awesome, and I think gives a general idea of the level of proficiency that you have. However, I believe a more accurate 'read' of your proficiency is just the teacher teaching you and getting to know you. They will then know how much you actually know.
I say this because I have done exams where I skip studying due to time constraints, and it seems to always backfire horribly. Did I not know the material. No. But did I deserve a significantly lower grade because of one section? I do not know.
Essentially, what I am saying is that the better education we get, the better we will be. Better means smaller ratio of students to professors. I mean, how much do you learn when you're in a class of 500. You're not going to go raise your hand up and ask questions. At least I wouldn't. Smaller classes, like 100 students, see me asks lots of questions. Furthermore, the professor will more easily get a read on the class.
Class size does't justify horrible powerpoint presentations. That is the problem Ed Dante is addressing. The problem is the education system looks at teaching as the way to get people to pass their next exam. The most efficient way to "teach" a class of 500 without much work is to build a giant powerpoint presentation and read through it every class. That isn't teaching; that is reading. Teaching involves inspiring others to learn on their own, and to give them a reason to come to class and do the work (even the non-graded assignments).
Class size isn't a limitation, it is a problem.. and the answer isn't powerpoints nor is it small classes. Use positive reinforcement to get people to come to class, and then teach and inspire them to continue learning on their own. It sounds easy, but in execution it is hard. The demand for education is way higher than the number of good teachers can achieve, so they lower the expectations of teachers.. which lowers the pay-scale.. which makes a lot of the great teachers leave for higher pay elsewhere.. and now the lesser teachers are lost without some serious guidance on how to teach a class.. so they are given a guideline.. which they use to create a horrible powerpoint that they churn out each and every class..
and that is just one problem, I won't even get into the emotional work teaching takes.. nor the amount of effort to actually make something fairly unique and interesting/entertaining (not powerpoints).. etc. There are hundreds of reasons why the educational system is the way it is, but I believe we can all agree it has thousands of reasons for being awful and outdated.
For anyone who has had the fortune of having a great teacher, the rest pale in comparison. I can't really comprehend what makes a great teacher, but if you have one it doesn't matter how large the class is; they know how to inspire people and they know how to get people to do the work. I will say that all the teachers I remember as great loved teaching, and kept a positive attitude even when they felt like crap. It is hard to care about a class, when the teacher doesn't care how good/bad you do in it, and that is the problem with larger classes. The teachers don't know how or don't even try to convey enthusiasm about learning without having ample 1 on 1 time.
|
I really could see a movie being made about this guy :p
|
I have to consistently disagree with people who say that the current academic system is "deeply flawed." Obviously there could be substantial improvements but I think how it is now is acceptable.
I'm in the sciences so maybe its different, but you can't really get away with bullshitting. If you're a student with a high GPA it means you put in an immense amount of work, either that or you're a genius. Most of the time it's the former. In science at any legit university you need to know you're shit and the only way to get by is to study hard.
Humanities are apparently a different story, but even then a competent professor would know your capabilities by speaking with you, and by reading things that you actually wrote.
On an unrelated note, imagine the shitstorm this guy could cause if he released the names and work that he and or his "business" has done over the years. Thousands of people could get their degrees revoked and lose their jobs it would be madness. My evil side wants him to do it, just for the lulz. I personally wouldn't feel safe trusting some random guy, who at any time could out me. Imagine if you're defending your thesis and then the professors become aware that you didn't even write it. That would be bad.
Also, funny story: One of my professors (very recently) caught some kids cheating on the exam (their answers were identical and wrong lol) he was nice enough to not immediately get them kicked out, instead he announced to the class that those who had cheated could turn themselves in and he would only fail them on that exam. Needless to say he had more people show up than the suspected cheaters.
|
On November 18 2010 10:57 MadVillain wrote: I have to consistently disagree with people who say that the current academic system is "deeply flawed." Obviously there could be substantial improvements but I think how it is now is acceptable.
I'm in the sciences so maybe its different, but you can't really get away with bullshitting. If you're a student with a high GPA it means you put in an immense amount of work, either that or you're a genius. Most of the time it's the former. In science at any legit university you need to know you're shit and the only way to get by is to study hard.
The educational system was built to supply factories with competent employees to run them. The concept was, people would go to college to learn and become educated enough to work at factories. In return for going to college they gained "job security" as in they could be fairly certain that they could hold the job for however long they wanted to work there, and not have to worry about being laid off.
Well, times have changes. People are no longer granted the same "job security" and the jobs that pay for people to simply go to work and put in time are becoming outsourced or the pay reduced considerably. The jobs that pay well involve different skills now than they did many years ago. The education system hasn't changed at all to accommodate this, which is sad considering how much the world has changed.
I don't know what school you went to, but I went to GT for a couple of years (30k a semester for powerpoints got me to leave), and most of my friends and I "bullshitted" our way to 3.0+ GPAs. You don't have to "know" anything, you just need to know where to look for the right information. 1hr per class per week definitely isn't an immense amount of work.
|
Honestly, if he isn't going to stop, I'd like to see him jack up prices to the point where it hurts for people to cheat.
|
You don't go to a uni to write stupid essays or learn anything, you go there for the name value and the value a degree from there holds in the job market.
|
too bad I am too lazy to write people's papers for them....
|
On November 18 2010 11:13 L0CUST. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 10:57 MadVillain wrote: I have to consistently disagree with people who say that the current academic system is "deeply flawed." Obviously there could be substantial improvements but I think how it is now is acceptable.
I'm in the sciences so maybe its different, but you can't really get away with bullshitting. If you're a student with a high GPA it means you put in an immense amount of work, either that or you're a genius. Most of the time it's the former. In science at any legit university you need to know you're shit and the only way to get by is to study hard.
The educational system was built to supply factories with competent employees to run them. The concept was, people would go to college to learn and become educated enough to work at factories. In return for going to college they gained "job security" as in they could be fairly certain that they could hold the job for however long they wanted to work there, and not have to worry about being laid off. Well, times have changes. People are no longer granted the same "job security" and the jobs that pay for people to simply go to work and put in time are becoming outsourced or the pay reduced considerably. The jobs that pay well involve different skills now than they did many years ago. The education system hasn't changed at all to accommodate this, which is sad considering how much the world has changed. I don't know what school you went to, but I went to GT for a couple of years (30k a semester for powerpoints got me to leave), and most of my friends and I "bullshitted" our way to 3.0+ GPAs. You don't have to "know" anything, you just need to know where to look for the right information. 1hr per class per week definitely isn't an immense amount of work.
I'm currently enrolled in ChemE at the university of minnesota. I can tell you that there is no way putting a mere 1hr per class per week would get you any higher than a 2.0. Its simply impossible, the work load is to high, the concepts and problems too difficult to simply "look for the right information." I can say this is true for almost any engineering, tho chemE is particularly difficult from the general consensus. As far as job security goes, these days graduating with an engineering degree is as secure as you can get really, there is always demand and as long as you make yourself a good candidate you will get a decent job. But I don't see how can pass an extremely difficult exam without actually knowing what you're doing.
Speaking of which I need to go study for a couple hours. Ney all night... sigh
|
All of us are aware of this but damn... this guy is ridiculous if I had the ability to write proficient bullshit and drag it on I wouldn't have to constantly try dodge my Liberal Arts courses. But on the other hand I already finished them and I am fairly satisfied.
edit: Liberal Arts courses meaning my General Curriculum, I am in Engineering CS/CIS.
|
I cranked out two four-page papers in 5 hours for my girlfriend because she's not a native English speaker. For some reason, she thought 4 hours was enough for her to write 8 pages haha, so she waited until 4 hours before the deadline.
One paper was on US foreign policy theory towards Iran regarding nuclear proliferation. The other was a argumentation paper on Obama's statement on New National Security Strategy, regarding realism vs liberalism.
I was so proud of myself for doing this. Felt like a beast. Oh, and I felt even better when I found out she got a B+ on one, and an A- on the other.
She always started papers early since then.
|
This guy is right when he suggests universities are not concerned with educating, but grades. Every one of my last 8 essays was done in under 4 hours time, the 4 hours before the deadline (and I'm at a uni where if you don't hand in work by the deadline you get 0% barring extenuating circumstance)
So far the bare ammount I have learned from university is either in the unlikely event I turn up to a class and there is discussion, or in wikipediaing//skimming books in the 4 hour timeframe I use to write the essays.
Now I am just exceptionally lazy and there is a whole wealth of opportunity for me to learn new and exciting things at university, but you are not rewarded for learning, you are rewarded for churning out cliché ideas and taught how to write the things an examiner expects and looks for. You are not taught to learn, or rather not rewarded for doing so, you are taught how to pass.
Edit: didn't read the post above mine before responding, just read the OP, eerie irony
|
for a person with his talent, but few opportunities in the world of writing, he found a way to make some dough. i dont blame him at all. besides, i dont think our world is gonna be screwed because some people cant write.
|
Problem is people still wanna study like its friggin 19th century.
Generates 19th century problems, like forgery lol
|
i wonder if the list of those people who use these services were to be kept and released in twenty years how many of those name would turn up in US congress/senate and other positions of high influence?
|
On November 18 2010 19:32 XeliN wrote:This guy is right when he suggests universities are not concerned with educating, but grades. Every one of my last 8 essays was done in under 4 hours time, the 4 hours before the deadline (and I'm at a uni where if you don't hand in work by the deadline you get 0% barring extenuating circumstance) So far the bare ammount I have learned from university is either in the unlikely event I turn up to a class and there is discussion, or in wikipediaing//skimming books in the 4 hour timeframe I use to write the essays. Now I am just exceptionally lazy and there is a whole wealth of opportunity for me to learn new and exciting things at university, but you are not rewarded for learning, you are rewarded for churning out cliché ideas and taught how to write the things an examiner expects and looks for. You are not taught to learn, or rather not rewarded for doing so, you are taught how to pass. Edit: didn't read the post above mine before responding, just read the OP, eerie irony  so very true and unfortunately this is the way things are in the meritocracies (or so called) we live in today
granted those who want to know will do fine... but those who want to "succeed" can use plenty of methods to get past the system
|
On November 18 2010 04:23 shindigs wrote:
So, of course, you can imagine my excitement when I received the good news:
"thanx so much for uhelp ican going to graduate to now".
Very interesting read over all, surprised at just how far this type of thing goes..
And the final few lines were the perfect ending, sums up the entire story of him with that client. (And just how bad it actually is.)
|
It'd be funny if someone paid him to right a short novel for a "class" and then got it published. It would be an ironic realization of the ghostwriter's dreams.
|
It seems so sick... I know i was no "good" student, for i didnt learn really much and didnt care about my grades. I had too many "things" to do (hello WC3, Diablo 2, SC:BW, LoL and SC2!) and even when i was not playing, i was trolling the rest of the Internet (TL.net, facebook).
Hell, i had university papers to do and yet was doing BS over at farmville rather than doing the work!
So, when the actual deadline was almost kicking in and would have broken my neck, i started to do all-nighters consequently in a whole week, to finish months of work in only one work. And as it seems, everything was pretty fine the way i did it... (Bachelor of Engineering with 1,3 :D)
Despite the fact my knowlege about thermodinamycs and FEM analysis is behind a drunken haze and staying up much too late at night, i am a useful member of society ;-)
But completely not even doing this (what i did i would consider as doing the absolute basics of studying) and afterwards trying to do your job later might be interesting, because all the knowlege you pretend to have is not there...
TLDR: I love the educational system, and i wish i could be stundet for life =)
|
On November 18 2010 05:31 viletomato wrote: HAHA that 'genius' at writing can write anything except for math. I highly doubt he could write anything close to a mathematical paper because you have to really KNOW what you are writing about.
(Only only say this because I'm studying math ATM )
By the way 66K is a pathetic sum of money considering he labours hours and hours without end and is constantly being harrassed by lazy idiots.
Ye I take it you grinned slightly to when you realized that this guy would be totally useless if you ever wanted to cheat? I know I did
(Not that my maths coursework ever requires me to write a paper, normally just answering questions)
|
Clearly anyone paying people to write their essays for them is missing the point of education (which they're also paying for).
Furthermore, I don't think this guy would be any help if you want a good grade - for my undergraduate dissertation I had to have several meetings with a senior professor, one after submitting a research proposal. There is no way I could have attended those meetings if I hadn't done my own work - they were hard enough anyway.
Having said that, good article and nice read -really interesting.
|
God I hate writing academic papers. Writing my thesis PROPOSAL caused me a month of procrastination and depression, I can't imagine how hard writing my actual thesis will be. It actually feels like a phobia. My heart races when I sit in front of the computer with the goal to work on my thesis. It's one of the most stressful things I've ever had to do.
So I can totally understand people who would prefer to pay for it. They totally miss out on the real point of the work of course; that is to develop the skill to learn and to express your learning.
|
On November 18 2010 20:09 Sfydjklm wrote: i wonder if the list of those people who use these services were to be kept and released in twenty years how many of those name would turn up in US congress/senate and other positions of high influence?
Depends how many Bush family members you guys keep voting to office.
|
This is just another reason why sensible universities shouldn't have stuff like graded homework or essays that count for grades imo. The humanities guys here seem to be doing between 1 and 3 big essays a week but that's just something to base their tutorials on, it doesn't count at all towards their degree. Instead their final degree classification is based on writing a number of essays during timed exam conditions in the final week of their final year. (Some subjects do some extended research project/thesis as well for maybe 20% of the total degree though) Makes much more sense to me and makes cheating impossible.
As for the morality of cheating, of course I find it detestable but seriously, it's the fault of the univursity if their teaching and grading system is shallow enough that cheating actually can be profitable.
|
On November 18 2010 04:27 CanucksJC wrote: Im not surprised that something like this is happening... I'd gladly pay someone a reasonable amount to have my exams written and im not even that rich. universities are just too competitive and exhausting these days... I've got around 45-50 pages of papers this semester. I probably would never pay for a paper outright, but I could certainly see the value in having someone do a large chunk of it and then finishing it / refining it to match your style. Colleges are at the point (and have been for years) where you're given copious amounts of unnecessary papers solely for the sake of writing a paper. My grad classes are especially guilty of this.
|
My distaste for the early hours and regimented nature of high school was tempered by the promise of the educational community ahead, with its free exchange of ideas and access to great minds. How dispiriting to find out that college was just another place where grades were grubbed, competition overshadowed personal growth, and the threat of failure was used to encourage learning. I too good sir.
|
On November 18 2010 22:08 Robstickle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 05:31 viletomato wrote: HAHA that 'genius' at writing can write anything except for math. I highly doubt he could write anything close to a mathematical paper because you have to really KNOW what you are writing about.
(Only only say this because I'm studying math ATM )
By the way 66K is a pathetic sum of money considering he labours hours and hours without end and is constantly being harrassed by lazy idiots. Ye I take it you grinned slightly to when you realized that this guy would be totally useless if you ever wanted to cheat? I know I did (Not that my maths coursework ever requires me to write a paper, normally just answering questions)
He can't do math or anything related to technical subjects. Just shows how business/management course student can just basically bs their way through assignments and essays without actually knowing anything.
|
On November 18 2010 11:20 Irrelevant wrote: You don't go to a uni to write stupid essays or learn anything, you go there for the name value and the value a degree from there holds in the job market.
I have the highest mark in the majority of my classes (which historically is the case), yet those marks are consistently graded on a curve to make the 'academic under performer' look like he's performing better than he actually is. That post-secondary institutions are more concerned with funding, graduation rate and getting students through the system as fast as possible is becoming the main reasons I'm sick of the system. That I have to do 'worse' to make some idiot look 'smarter' absolutely disgusts me.
|
On November 18 2010 08:38 TheDrill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 06:22 Insanious wrote: Universities are glorified High Schools... if you can memorize things you can get an A+ if you know why something works but cannot memorize the correct terms, say hello to a B.
Sad but true... every test I have written for my university so far has me getting 100% on short and long answer questions (the "explain theory" questions) but when it is "which one of these is not one of the marketing forces?" multiple choice shit... I do a lot worse... 60-70% correct.
But in the real world will I ever need to know how to calculate the Confidence interval of a statistic by hand, know how to find the NPV of some investment by hand? Hell no, I will use a computer program to do that... but knowing what a CI or NPV means will be important. Too bad we aren't tested on knowing what something means and are tested on how to find something useless. Anyone who has taken both, hard science classes such as calculus and calculus based physics and soft science classes such as statistics and psychology can tell you that there is a pretty fucking huge distinction in the workload required and amount of effort expected. Yea I could write my 5 page English 2 paper the night before and expect a solid B+, but if I tried to cram for even a lowly Phys 1 exam, the only thing I could ever hope for is a gigantic curve giving me a D- instead of an F. Then again, I go to a fairly strong engineering school. Why do you think the writer refuses to do any math?
This is very true. I actually took the higher level English courses in college because they were easier to do. On the other hand my calc 1 teacher never took back homework he gave because as he said, "if you didn't do it you would fail the tests".
I don't agree with these services because it is cheating, but really using them for courses outside your major isn't going to hurt you later in life if you are not caught. I have forgot nearly everything from those classes as soon as the final was done anyway.
|
I have never heard of, let alone met, anyone who has used these kinds of services. Maybe it's because my course in college had a pretty high GPA requirement: people who enrolled expected to be working hard just to get by. My 1st semester exam in Pol.Sci. is a 10-page assignment to be done in 24 hours. Won't be getting much sleep that night.
I have cheated once, in primary school. I got caught, my teacher had a serious talk with me, and I've never even considered doing it since. As long as you keep up with your reading writing a paper is no biggie - of course I'm still only on my first semester, things could change.
Also, an interesting comment on the article's website:
'The author admits to an aversion to math, and I am not surprised. He claims to have written more than 5000 pages in the last year. At roughly 250 working days per year, that's 20 pages a day, every single working day. In an eight-hour working day, that's close to 1000 words every hour, with no time allowed for client contact, follow-up, research or anything else. This seems unlikely in the extreme. Even with more hours put in each day, that is an improbably high speed of writing, considering that it has to be kept up every hour of every working day to make the total claimed in this article.
On the other side of the coin, he claims that will be paid about $66,000 for his 5000 pages. That is the princely sum of $13.20 per page, or slightly more than 2¢ per word (at 550 words per page). Not only is he lying and making a dishonest living (presuming the story told here is truthful), he is getting paid pathetically.'
|
Russian Federation145 Posts
On November 19 2010 00:50 Hans-Titan wrote: 'The author admits to an aversion to math, and I am not surprised. He claims to have written more than 5000 pages in the last year. At roughly 250 working days per year, that's 20 pages a day, every single working day. In an eight-hour working day, that's close to 1000 words every hour, with no time allowed for client contact, follow-up, research or anything else. This seems unlikely in the extreme. Even with more hours put in each day, that is an improbably high speed of writing, considering that it has to be kept up every hour of every working day to make the total claimed in this article.
On the other side of the coin, he claims that will be paid about $66,000 for his 5000 pages. That is the princely sum of $13.20 per page, or slightly more than 2¢ per word (at 550 words per page). Not only is he lying and making a dishonest living (presuming the story told here is truthful), he is getting paid pathetically.' Maybe it's double spaced. 
20 pages a day probably isn't that bad for people who enjoy the challenge writing. Did you get his Dickens reference? It definitely takes talent and a lot of effort to do something like this and you have to have some respect for the ghost writer, even if he is being dishonest.
|
But writing essays is easy...
You just regurgitate ideas and the same argument structures over and over again.
So this guy is just taking advantage of absurd laziness on the part of students. Good for him tbh, not like not writing your own essays actually proves anything about how much you know at university
|
On November 19 2010 01:24 Piy wrote:But writing essays is easy... You just regurgitate ideas and the same argument structures over and over again. So this guy is just taking advantage of absurd laziness on the part of students. Good for him tbh, not like not writing your own essays actually proves anything about how much you know at university 
You must have written some very boring essays, if that's the procedure you followed
|
This is a problem because people get shit education from their High School where how to write is supposed to be taught. So then people get to University and suck ass at writing and go do stuff like this.
|
On November 19 2010 00:32 Gnosis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 11:20 Irrelevant wrote: You don't go to a uni to write stupid essays or learn anything, you go there for the name value and the value a degree from there holds in the job market. I have the highest mark in the majority of my classes (which historically is the case), yet those marks are consistently graded on a curve to make the 'academic under performer' look like he's performing better than he actually is. That post-secondary institutions are more concerned with funding, graduation rate and getting students through the system as fast as possible is becoming the main reasons I'm sick of the system. That I have to do 'worse' to make some idiot look 'smarter' absolutely disgusts me. I stopped bothering to do any work in law school because the curve plops me on the winning side of classes full of retards regardless of if I try or not.
|
On November 18 2010 04:28 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +[B]On November 18 2010 04:23 shindigs wrote: The interesting part to me is that this extends even to the levels of PhD thesises (thesi?) I believe the plural is the same as the singular, i can't remember off the top of my head. This stuff has been happening for years and years, friends doing homework for each other, scholars being paid to "correct" papers (they usually just re-write it for you) and directly stealing old papers. Unfortunately, most adjudicators (the people who mark papers) don't have an opportunity to read other materials from the student and thus have no way to check whether the paper was written by the student or ghost written. It is the responsibility of the teacher to read over the papers and check they were written by the student, and when you have 50 students papers to read... thats hard to do.
I thought it was theses? (pronounced thee-sees)
Edit: What I seem to be coming across in a lot of the responses to OP's post, is that a lot of the people are skeptical of his ability to write a technical document. What I derived from the article was that: people give him their ideas for those technical courses and he writes a paper around it. He doesn't actually go and write or derive mathematical proofs for something similar.
A simple example of how he works would be me giving him the lorentz transformation telling him all of the variables and what it means and I need a paper on it that ties it into E=mc^2. All of which can be further researched (via the power of the internet) along with the information I previously provided.
It's really not hard to write a technical document at all. Hell, I'm sitting in my technical writing course as I write this post and I've had no issue bullshitting (with decent grades) on topics I only had a limited knowledge of (i.e., I don't really know everything there is to know about frame dragging and its implication in time travel but the b on my paper says otherwise).
I've also helped several psych/business majors write their own theses (and in one case from my own idea). This isn't that hard, there's a market for it, and knowing the general trend of education and medicine, there's only going to be an increase in demand in future years.
|
On November 18 2010 11:20 Irrelevant wrote: You don't go to a uni to write stupid essays or learn anything, you go there for the name value and the value a degree from there holds in the job market. not really. most of the time it's how you use that degree. once you get out into world you'll see how many people have degrees that are not directly related to their employment. but w/e, it's what you get out of it. spend 40-80k(probably of your parents money) and you make the choice. I know I've learned a huge amount in only a few months. Some people learn and grow, others are cynical and stultified.
|
To be honest, I personally believe this is guy is full of shit...
However, I know for a fact shit like this does happen, I don't believe this guy is part of a company. He stated he's on course to make 66 grand this year and plans to retire? I hope he meant from that particular business lawl. He also stated that he makes half the money from each paper, and he charged a paper 2 thousand (hopefully it was the 75 page paper, but I don't believe he said it was that one, but for the sake of argument, well assume it was that paper) and he's only making 60 grand (took him 2 days to write that paper).. That doesn't add up.
So that equates to roughly 500 dollars for 37.5 pages. Which is 13.3333 dollars per page. Damn near reasonable price i'd say especially since most undergrad college papers are under 5-10 pages. He said he can pop out 4 to 5 pages an hour on a good day, so again, for the sake of argument lets assume he can do 3. So that's damn near $40 an hour. (13.3 x 3) Assume he works a 8-5. Normal 8 hour day, even though I'm pretty he said (at least made it seem like he worked long 12 hour workdays, but again, sake of argument) that wasn't the case. Summer, for the average people, is damn near 112 days or so (May 7 - August 21st is what I used, although it changes obviously). But obviously, people take summer school, and he stated that he always has business and it was booming. Christmas's break, or the semester gap, i think is roughly 4 weeks or so (I remember in high school having projects nearly every summer and Christmas break in at least 1 class, usually for English, but whatever)
He stands to make, according to my math, around $71,000. The math seems close, but I still just don't buy it. With interns, price variation, High School, College, amount of effort, etc.. I just have a hard time believing this. There's just too many variables, and to be completely honest, compare him to Obama for great example, while they may be good writers, most liars are. He even stated that he was the best bullshitter, so believe what you want.
Honestly, to me, I love writing and bullshitting, but he just sounds like a bitter english major who's shitty work went unnoticed and now his feelings are hurt because no one patted him on the back when he was younger and his mom and dad didn't support his god awful decision because he's mediocre at best and now he has to be an elementary school teacher because he can't surmount to the great writer that is Dickens.
|
On November 18 2010 04:39 JinNJuice wrote: Honestly I'm not surprised in the slightest. Looking at the students even in my school who are supposed to be top engineering students, I'm amazed at how poor their writing skills are. I don't even want to imagine the graduating high school seniors. The use of texting since they were in 6th grade does not help them improve any technical or creating writing skills at all. It's only going to get worse.
That surprises you? Do you know what engineers focus on? They focus on physics, mathematics, and other technical subjects (fluids, mechanics, etc). If they write, it's most likely an equation. Engineers are not writers, however this is not to say that they should be able to write (for documentation, etc).
Engineers don't care about whether their grammar is crisp or not, or whether they misspelled thermodynamics or any junk like that, they're worried about much more important things. If you can convey your thoughts and ideas in a clear and concise way then what does it matter if a technically minded person cannot write like an author?
There are often people who bridge between the technically minded people and the customer anyways.
edit: Proof is also in the article...this well versed man who writes whatever you want him to write avoids mathematics. Engineers are simply the opposite. Give us the math and screw the writing.
|
|
This was a very interesting read, especially as a law student. I don't really want to believe that anything this flagrant goes on in law school. Still, I assume that it does to some degree. It's a small consolation that anyone who cheats this way through law school will almost certainly fail miserably at actually being a lawyer. Lawyers need to know how to write and use words properly.
|
Chronic copying and cheating is the problem here at MSU in engineering from MY EXPERIENCE (keywords).
Solution manuals being out and professors assigning too much homework which is graded is the cause for all of it.
Dont assign mandatory homework and it wont happen, period. Do like in class quizes or projects or something.
As far as essays go im not really sure how to combat it. Its just so lame how stuff like this happens. Theres far too much work assigned.
Senior in Mechanical Engineering here.
|
On November 19 2010 02:28 Rickilicious wrote:Bunch of stuff and calculations + Show Spoiler +To be honest, I personally believe this is guy is full of shit...
However, I know for a fact shit like this does happen, I don't believe this guy is part of a company. He stated he's on course to make 66 grand this year and plans to retire? I hope he meant from that particular business lawl. He also stated that he makes half the money from each paper, and he charged a paper 2 thousand (hopefully it was the 75 page paper, but I don't believe he said it was that one, but for the sake of argument, well assume it was that paper) and he's only making 60 grand (took him 2 days to write that paper).. That doesn't add up.
So that equates to roughly 500 dollars for 37.5 pages. Which is 13.3333 dollars per page. Damn near reasonable price i'd say especially since most undergrad college papers are under 5-10 pages. He said he can pop out 4 to 5 pages an hour on a good day, so again, for the sake of argument lets assume he can do 3. So that's damn near $40 an hour. (13.3 x 3) Assume he works a 8-5. Normal 8 hour day, even though I'm pretty he said (at least made it seem like he worked long 12 hour workdays, but again, sake of argument) that wasn't the case. Summer, for the average people, is damn near 112 days or so (May 7 - August 21st is what I used, although it changes obviously). But obviously, people take summer school, and he stated that he always has business and it was booming. Christmas's break, or the semester gap, i think is roughly 4 weeks or so (I remember in high school having projects nearly every summer and Christmas break in at least 1 class, usually for English, but whatever)
He stands to make, according to my math, around $71,000. The math seems close, but I still just don't buy it. With interns, price variation, High School, College, amount of effort, etc.. I just have a hard time believing this. There's just too many variables, and to be completely honest, compare him to Obama for great example, while they may be good writers, most liars are. He even stated that he was the best bullshitter, so believe what you want.
Honestly, to me, I love writing and bullshitting, but he just sounds like a bitter english major who's shitty work went unnoticed and now his feelings are hurt because no one patted him on the back when he was younger and his mom and dad didn't support his god awful decision because he's mediocre at best and now he has to be an elementary school teacher because he can't surmount to the great writer that is Dickens .
I don't think you can account for the varying costs of deadlines. He did mention that there are different rates for different workloads and the time that the work must be done. I'd imagine a 100 page paper that must be done in 2 days would cost quite a bit more than a 150 page paper done over the course of two weeks. Seeing as we don't know the relationship between the two it's not really safe to say. You are right in saying there are a lot of variables.
I wonder if they did have interns that did this: Would the intern get expelled from his/her university under academic integrity clauses if the university ever found out? This is considering the intern's university is different than the customer's.
On November 19 2010 02:36 dronebabo wrote: lol dunno why u r so defensive there he never said engineers had to have author level writin skills he just said he was amazed at how poor their writing skills are -> it could mean they have writing skills so bad that they are worse than basic which is obviously needed for even career paths focusin on math like engineering
It's not being defensive, more that there is absolutely nothing surprising about that, which I followed up with causality. I re-read it and it seems the tone is misplaced but please understand that it's not meant to be malicious.
|
On November 19 2010 02:43 Sadist wrote: Chronic copying and cheating is the problem here at MSU in engineering from MY EXPERIENCE (keywords).
Solution manuals being out and professors assigning too much homework which is graded is the cause for all of it.
Dont assign mandatory homework and it wont happen, period. Do like in class quizes or projects or something.
As far as essays go im not really sure how to combat it. Its just so lame how stuff like this happens. Theres far too much work assigned.
Senior in Mechanical Engineering here.
I don't think not having homework would solve anything. The only thing that would solve cheating, or lower the percentage of cheaters in college would be revamping the education system. Making a student memorize 8 chapters or Organic Chemistry for a semester is not teaching the student anything. All it is teaching the student to do is memorize key points in the lecture and certain types of reactions so he or she could get by with a grade. If the student wants to properly learn all 8 chapters, then he'll have to either study a shit load, which would be impossible with the work load of all your other classes, or start studying before he or she even takes the classes. The only way to fix this would be to make college education longer (1-1.5 years longer, maybe?), but it'll actually be worth it since you would come out knowing more.
The education system right now is bullshit. Every professor just throws a bunch of reading at you and expects you to memorize it and fully understand it all within a week. It is getting quite ridiculous in my Organic Chemistry class right now. My professor is expecting us to memorize a chapter a week. I could probably do it if I had no job, no social life, no fun and no work from other classes, but when you're taking the normal amount of credits each semester (4 classes here) then you just won't be able to do everything a professor expects you to do in the allotted time.
For example; I have to read and study Chapter 8 & 9 for my next Organic Chemistry lecture since we'll be having a quiz on it. That in itself is about 5-10 hours of just reading and rereading the text book to just understand what is going on. After that, I might have another 5-10 hours or more of doing example problems to make sure I full understand the material. On top of all that, I have Calculus III homework, which I don't find difficult, but it's time consuming since my professor assigns every example problem in the text. That's another 5-10 hours. After that comes my 10 page essay that I have to write analyzing a book about slavery. It's due in about a week and was assigned a week ago. Reading a 500 page book and writing a 10 page essay in 2 weeks is wonderful. Then comes my Physics w/ Calculus class. That's even more work to do.
Not only do I have work to do for those classes, I also have Labs that I have to take for Physics and Organic Chem. The labs are ~2 hours each and fairly easy, but writing the reports for them is just ridiculous. I spend about 5 hours writing my Organic Lab reports, but even that isn't enough to get me an A by the professor I have this semester (should've taken an easier Professor -_-) and also spend 2 hours writing my physics reports. This is all weekly by the way.
That right there is an average work load for a Chemistry major at my college and I'm not in some prestigious school. I just don't get how Professors expect you to get all that work done, while having a job and some sort of social life. I rarely play video games anymore because I'm always so damn busy, so that's definitely not why I can't finish all my work. The system just needs to be fixed to the point where all Professors actually take into account your other classes and the possibility that you might you know, have to work for a living. I've only ever had one professor that actually took into account the fact that students might have to work and have other classes to do homework for and her class was one of my favorite classes. She assigned a fair amount of work, graded our assignments a bit more harshly to make up for not assigning a ton of work.Even though she was a more difficult grader compared to most professors, it still didn't take a time machine to get an A in her class. In my opinion, that's the best way to learn. We came out of her class fully understanding the material instead of just understanding bits and pieces of it.
Now that I'm done with my semi-rant, I'll go read my 28 page article written by a former slave in 1863 that I have to fully understand by 3:45. Fun times. This shit's really helping my Chemistry degree.
|
On November 19 2010 03:15 Joementum wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 02:43 Sadist wrote: Chronic copying and cheating is the problem here at MSU in engineering from MY EXPERIENCE (keywords).
Solution manuals being out and professors assigning too much homework which is graded is the cause for all of it.
Dont assign mandatory homework and it wont happen, period. Do like in class quizes or projects or something.
As far as essays go im not really sure how to combat it. Its just so lame how stuff like this happens. Theres far too much work assigned.
Senior in Mechanical Engineering here. I don't think not having homework would solve anything. The only thing that would solve cheating, or lower the percentage of cheaters in college would be revamping the education system. Making a student memorize 8 chapters or Organic Chemistry for a semester is not teaching the student anything. All it is teaching the student to do is memorize key points in the lecture and certain types of reactions so he or she could get by with a grade. If the student wants to properly learn all 8 chapters, then he'll have to either study a shit load, which would be impossible with the work load of all your other classes, or start studying before he or she even takes the classes. The only way to fix this would be to make college education longer (1-1.5 years longer, maybe?), but it'll actually be worth it since you would come out knowing more. The education system right now is bullshit. Every professor just throws a bunch of reading at you and expects you to memorize it and fully understand it all within a week. It is getting quite ridiculous in my Organic Chemistry class right now. My professor is expecting us to memorize a chapter a week. I could probably do it if I had no job, no social life, no fun and no work from other classes, but when you're taking the normal amount of credits each semester (4 classes here) then you just won't be able to do everything a professor expects you to do in the allotted time. For example; I have to read and study Chapter 8 & 9 for my next Organic Chemistry lecture since we'll be having a quiz on it. That in itself is about 5-10 hours of just reading and rereading the text book to just understand what is going on. After that, I might have another 5-10 hours or more of doing example problems to make sure I full understand the material. On top of all that, I have Calculus III homework, which I don't find difficult, but it's time consuming since my professor assigns every example problem in the text. That's another 5-10 hours. After that comes my 10 page essay that I have to write analyzing a book about slavery. It's due in about a week and was assigned a week ago. Reading a 500 page book and writing a 10 page essay in 2 weeks is wonderful. Then comes my Physics w/ Calculus class. That's even more work to do. Not only do I have work to do for those classes, I also have Labs that I have to take for Physics and Organic Chem. The labs are ~2 hours each and fairly easy, but writing the reports for them is just ridiculous. I spend about 5 hours writing my Organic Lab reports, but even that isn't enough to get me an A by the professor I have this semester (should've taken an easier Professor -_-) and also spend 2 hours writing my physics reports. This is all weekly by the way. That right there is an average work load for a Chemistry major at my college and I'm not in some prestigious school. I just don't get how Professors expect you to get all that work done, while having a job and some sort of social life. I rarely play video games anymore because I'm always so damn busy, so that's definitely not why I can't finish all my work. The system just needs to be fixed to the point where all Professors actually take into account your other classes and the possibility that you might you know, have to work for a living. I've only ever had one professor that actually took into account the fact that students might have to work and have other classes to do homework for and her class was one of my favorite classes. She assigned a fair amount of work, graded our assignments a bit more harshly to make up for not assigning a ton of work.Even though she was a more difficult grader compared to most professors, it still didn't take a time machine to get an A in her class. In my opinion, that's the best way to learn. We came out of her class fully understanding the material instead of just understanding bits and pieces of it. Now that I'm done with my semi-rant, I'll go read my 28 page article written by a former slave in 1863 that I have to fully understand by 3:45. Fun times. This shit's really helping my Chemistry degree. For one you're not supposed to have a job, higher education is (supposed to be) a full time commitment and if the course you're attending is decent there shouldn't be any time over for a job if you want any kind of social interaction at all imo. The rest of your rant is the reason why I went to the UK rather than the US to study for undergrad, being forced to do stuff unrelated to what your are actually studying at a university is incomprehensible to me, however it seems to work well for you guys so what do I know *shrug*
As a chemistry student myself I can't see how approaching organic chem via route memorisation can ever be a good idea though. When you're doing asymetric synthesis they will expect you to _know_ basic enolate chemistry (for example) and if you don't that will hurt so much :/ Much better to think of it as a logic game with really complex rules imo.
|
On November 19 2010 03:55 KlaCkoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 03:15 Joementum wrote:On November 19 2010 02:43 Sadist wrote: Chronic copying and cheating is the problem here at MSU in engineering from MY EXPERIENCE (keywords).
Solution manuals being out and professors assigning too much homework which is graded is the cause for all of it.
Dont assign mandatory homework and it wont happen, period. Do like in class quizes or projects or something.
As far as essays go im not really sure how to combat it. Its just so lame how stuff like this happens. Theres far too much work assigned.
Senior in Mechanical Engineering here. I don't think not having homework would solve anything. The only thing that would solve cheating, or lower the percentage of cheaters in college would be revamping the education system. Making a student memorize 8 chapters or Organic Chemistry for a semester is not teaching the student anything. All it is teaching the student to do is memorize key points in the lecture and certain types of reactions so he or she could get by with a grade. If the student wants to properly learn all 8 chapters, then he'll have to either study a shit load, which would be impossible with the work load of all your other classes, or start studying before he or she even takes the classes. The only way to fix this would be to make college education longer (1-1.5 years longer, maybe?), but it'll actually be worth it since you would come out knowing more. The education system right now is bullshit. Every professor just throws a bunch of reading at you and expects you to memorize it and fully understand it all within a week. It is getting quite ridiculous in my Organic Chemistry class right now. My professor is expecting us to memorize a chapter a week. I could probably do it if I had no job, no social life, no fun and no work from other classes, but when you're taking the normal amount of credits each semester (4 classes here) then you just won't be able to do everything a professor expects you to do in the allotted time. For example; I have to read and study Chapter 8 & 9 for my next Organic Chemistry lecture since we'll be having a quiz on it. That in itself is about 5-10 hours of just reading and rereading the text book to just understand what is going on. After that, I might have another 5-10 hours or more of doing example problems to make sure I full understand the material. On top of all that, I have Calculus III homework, which I don't find difficult, but it's time consuming since my professor assigns every example problem in the text. That's another 5-10 hours. After that comes my 10 page essay that I have to write analyzing a book about slavery. It's due in about a week and was assigned a week ago. Reading a 500 page book and writing a 10 page essay in 2 weeks is wonderful. Then comes my Physics w/ Calculus class. That's even more work to do. Not only do I have work to do for those classes, I also have Labs that I have to take for Physics and Organic Chem. The labs are ~2 hours each and fairly easy, but writing the reports for them is just ridiculous. I spend about 5 hours writing my Organic Lab reports, but even that isn't enough to get me an A by the professor I have this semester (should've taken an easier Professor -_-) and also spend 2 hours writing my physics reports. This is all weekly by the way. That right there is an average work load for a Chemistry major at my college and I'm not in some prestigious school. I just don't get how Professors expect you to get all that work done, while having a job and some sort of social life. I rarely play video games anymore because I'm always so damn busy, so that's definitely not why I can't finish all my work. The system just needs to be fixed to the point where all Professors actually take into account your other classes and the possibility that you might you know, have to work for a living. I've only ever had one professor that actually took into account the fact that students might have to work and have other classes to do homework for and her class was one of my favorite classes. She assigned a fair amount of work, graded our assignments a bit more harshly to make up for not assigning a ton of work.Even though she was a more difficult grader compared to most professors, it still didn't take a time machine to get an A in her class. In my opinion, that's the best way to learn. We came out of her class fully understanding the material instead of just understanding bits and pieces of it. Now that I'm done with my semi-rant, I'll go read my 28 page article written by a former slave in 1863 that I have to fully understand by 3:45. Fun times. This shit's really helping my Chemistry degree. For one you're not supposed to have a job, higher education is (supposed to be) a full time commitment and if the course you're attending is decent there shouldn't be any time over for a job if you want any kind of social interaction at all imo. The rest of your rant is the reason why I went to the UK rather than the US to study for undergrad, being forced to do stuff unrelated to what your are actually studying at a university is incomprehensible to me, however it seems to work well for you guys so what do I know *shrug* As a chemistry student myself I can't see how approaching organic chem via route memorisation can ever be a good idea though. When you're doing asymetric synthesis they will expect you to _know_ basic enolate chemistry (for example) and if you don't that will hurt so much :/ Much better to think of it as a logic game with really complex rules imo.
Who says I'm not supposed to have a job? Would you like to give me $50 /week for gas? Maybe even more for food every week? It's kind of the standard that you have some sort of job while your in college. At least around here it is. Not everyone has their parents supporting them for everything. I'll admit that my parents pay for my education, but they sure as hell won't pay for anything else. If I want to get to school, I'll have to work for my gas money. If I want to go out with friends. I'll have to work for the money to do so. It just doesn't seem possible for anyone to go through their college years without some sort of job unless that person has someone supporting them financially and paying for every little thing.
|
On November 18 2010 11:45 MadVillain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 11:13 L0CUST. wrote:On November 18 2010 10:57 MadVillain wrote: I have to consistently disagree with people who say that the current academic system is "deeply flawed." Obviously there could be substantial improvements but I think how it is now is acceptable.
I'm in the sciences so maybe its different, but you can't really get away with bullshitting. If you're a student with a high GPA it means you put in an immense amount of work, either that or you're a genius. Most of the time it's the former. In science at any legit university you need to know you're shit and the only way to get by is to study hard.
The educational system was built to supply factories with competent employees to run them. The concept was, people would go to college to learn and become educated enough to work at factories. In return for going to college they gained "job security" as in they could be fairly certain that they could hold the job for however long they wanted to work there, and not have to worry about being laid off. Well, times have changes. People are no longer granted the same "job security" and the jobs that pay for people to simply go to work and put in time are becoming outsourced or the pay reduced considerably. The jobs that pay well involve different skills now than they did many years ago. The education system hasn't changed at all to accommodate this, which is sad considering how much the world has changed. I don't know what school you went to, but I went to GT for a couple of years (30k a semester for powerpoints got me to leave), and most of my friends and I "bullshitted" our way to 3.0+ GPAs. You don't have to "know" anything, you just need to know where to look for the right information. 1hr per class per week definitely isn't an immense amount of work. I'm currently enrolled in ChemE at the university of minnesota. I can tell you that there is no way putting a mere 1hr per class per week would get you any higher than a 2.0. Its simply impossible, the work load is to high, the concepts and problems too difficult to simply "look for the right information." I can say this is true for almost any engineering, tho chemE is particularly difficult from the general consensus. As far as job security goes, these days graduating with an engineering degree is as secure as you can get really, there is always demand and as long as you make yourself a good candidate you will get a decent job. But I don't see how can pass an extremely difficult exam without actually knowing what you're doing. Speaking of which I need to go study for a couple hours. Ney all night... sigh
shurg its not "impossible". I knew a friend's brother who rarely studied at all for his undergrad degree when he was going for pre-med. He'd be taking "hard" classes like organic chemistry (I've never taken it so but a lot of people bitch about how hard orgo is), never go to class, and just show up for the test and ace everything.
well he's a doctor now making a bajillion a year.
|
On November 18 2010 04:55 Sufficiency wrote: This is not real news. But I seriously doubt any person who does this for a living can produce work with the kind of quality I satisfy with. However, if a student is close to failing, perhaps hiring someone can get a boost.
Of course it's cheating...
It really isn't that hard. Some people are good at research, and at writing.
On November 18 2010 05:52 BottleAbuser wrote: I don't see how he could write college-level papers on hard science subjects with just a few hours of googling, unless he really is a genius. The average paper I see has 10 technical terms in the first sentence, which makes utterly no sense unless you know their definitions which are often whole paragraphs themselves, sometimes containing even more technical terms. Try to fit the terms that appear important into random sentences and you'll end up with absolute garbage that makes the submitter look like he didn't learn a damn thing at college.
I conclude that he writes mostly for humanities courses, in which opinion is everything (as long as its not your own, so you can name drop).
It really isn't that hard. Like him, I can easily understand things that are not mathimatics (and I'm asian, go figure).
|
After several years of full time academic writing, I'm pretty sure he can do it better than we can even hope to imagine. Congrats for his success, and his coming out. And that he's tired of the bull where teachers can't teach the students (or more likely the student is too dumb to learn).
|
On November 19 2010 04:19 crazeman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 11:45 MadVillain wrote:On November 18 2010 11:13 L0CUST. wrote:On November 18 2010 10:57 MadVillain wrote: I have to consistently disagree with people who say that the current academic system is "deeply flawed." Obviously there could be substantial improvements but I think how it is now is acceptable.
I'm in the sciences so maybe its different, but you can't really get away with bullshitting. If you're a student with a high GPA it means you put in an immense amount of work, either that or you're a genius. Most of the time it's the former. In science at any legit university you need to know you're shit and the only way to get by is to study hard.
The educational system was built to supply factories with competent employees to run them. The concept was, people would go to college to learn and become educated enough to work at factories. In return for going to college they gained "job security" as in they could be fairly certain that they could hold the job for however long they wanted to work there, and not have to worry about being laid off. Well, times have changes. People are no longer granted the same "job security" and the jobs that pay for people to simply go to work and put in time are becoming outsourced or the pay reduced considerably. The jobs that pay well involve different skills now than they did many years ago. The education system hasn't changed at all to accommodate this, which is sad considering how much the world has changed. I don't know what school you went to, but I went to GT for a couple of years (30k a semester for powerpoints got me to leave), and most of my friends and I "bullshitted" our way to 3.0+ GPAs. You don't have to "know" anything, you just need to know where to look for the right information. 1hr per class per week definitely isn't an immense amount of work. I'm currently enrolled in ChemE at the university of minnesota. I can tell you that there is no way putting a mere 1hr per class per week would get you any higher than a 2.0. Its simply impossible, the work load is to high, the concepts and problems too difficult to simply "look for the right information." I can say this is true for almost any engineering, tho chemE is particularly difficult from the general consensus. As far as job security goes, these days graduating with an engineering degree is as secure as you can get really, there is always demand and as long as you make yourself a good candidate you will get a decent job. But I don't see how can pass an extremely difficult exam without actually knowing what you're doing. Speaking of which I need to go study for a couple hours. Ney all night... sigh shurg its not "impossible". I knew a friend's brother who rarely studied at all for his undergrad degree when he was going for pre-med. He'd be taking "hard" classes like organic chemistry (I've never taken it so but a lot of people bitch about how hard orgo is), never go to class, and just show up for the test and ace everything. well he's a doctor now making a bajillion a year.
There are lots of classes that I never go to lecture for that I have gotten A's in, but that doesn't mean that I didn't have to put time into the problem sets and projects.
The only classes I've taken right now that could plausibly take less than an hour per week of work are my math classes and stats class. But I personally take about 2 hours per week for those classes.
But I really think the guy in the article is full of shit, or at least inflating what he does heavily. The idea of slamming out a doctoral thesis in any subject that you've had no formal education on using only Google is just not very believable to me, much less in 2 days. Extremely capable people still take months to do their thesis.
|
On November 18 2010 10:30 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 10:26 Capook wrote: The real questions are,
What law does this violate?
How do we throw this guy in jail? the ghost writer isn't violating any laws. the students who plagiarize his work are up for explusion/suspension or w/e the school's rule is. There's no reason why he should be in jail
There must be a law against receiving money to help people commit a crime. If not, there should be...
|
Just a point I don't think people understand, the student's that are cheating are obviously going to be illiterate, etc.. it doesn't mean that every student in that subject is dumb, don't take it personal. Also, not surprised about the education majors, it makes tons of sense, me being an education major, the amount of hate towards the education system knows no bounds
|
On November 19 2010 05:02 Capook wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 10:30 Roe wrote:On November 18 2010 10:26 Capook wrote: The real questions are,
What law does this violate?
How do we throw this guy in jail? the ghost writer isn't violating any laws. the students who plagiarize his work are up for explusion/suspension or w/e the school's rule is. There's no reason why he should be in jail There must be a law against receiving money to help people commit a crime. If not, there should be...
really, you want a guy who helps people to cheat in jail??? That seems like the hugest waste of tax payer money in the world, the students obviously are at fault here, not this guy. Even then, I don't want any of these people in jail.
|
On November 19 2010 05:02 Capook wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 10:30 Roe wrote:On November 18 2010 10:26 Capook wrote: The real questions are,
What law does this violate?
How do we throw this guy in jail? the ghost writer isn't violating any laws. the students who plagiarize his work are up for explusion/suspension or w/e the school's rule is. There's no reason why he should be in jail There must be a law against receiving money to help people commit a crime. If not, there should be...
Cheating on college essays probably can't amount to anything more than a petty civil crime at most.
|
On November 18 2010 04:59 orgolove wrote: eh, I bet I can do this shit too, but 66k a year isn't much. -_-
66k/yr isn't much?
may i ask how old you are, work/educational experience?
66k/yr is a solid salary especially for something that apparently is easy as hell for the person in the OP.
|
I doubt this guy can write a good paper on something that he doesn't know much about. So unless he's doing a LOT of research for some of these more complex papers ... they are probably pretty bad papers that will get you average to bad grades. You really cannot talk about certain complex topics without having a decent background in them. Maybe he is some genius savant writer who can crank out 70 pages a day on quantum physics and the current manifestations in breakthrough technologies today, but personally I doubt it. Often times these papers also need proper citations and references so unless he's reading up on all these references, he won't have time to write the actual paper ...
|
On November 19 2010 05:53 lac29 wrote: I doubt this guy can write a good paper on something that he doesn't know much about. So unless he's doing a LOT of research for some of these more complex papers ... they are probably pretty bad papers that will get you average to bad grades. You really cannot talk about certain complex topics without having a decent background in them. Maybe he is some genius savant writer who can crank out 70 pages a day on quantum physics and the current manifestations in breakthrough technologies today, but personally I doubt it. Often times these papers also need proper citations and references so unless he's reading up on all these references, he won't have time to write the actual paper ...
Like what was stated before the people paying him give him a lot of the research/citations/their ideas for the project and basically have him put it all together in written form. Anyway it sucks that this goes on but not suprising due to the high competition and the overall lack of patience and work ethic.
|
On November 18 2010 04:59 orgolove wrote: eh, I bet I can do this shit too, but 66k a year isn't much. -_- ahk-gosu is that you?
not that surprising. my cousin's husband's masters thesis was blatantly taken and published by some university professor in china. he found out then just extorted a load of money from him.
it's sad how far money can take you.
|
I love writing my own papers. I'm a history major, and I don't understand why it wouldn't be enjoyable to further delve into a topic that you clearly like (seeing as you're likely majoring in it), and get to provide your own opinion on it.
O_o?
I'm at a loss honestly. Why would someone do this again?
|
On November 19 2010 06:03 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 05:53 lac29 wrote: I doubt this guy can write a good paper on something that he doesn't know much about. So unless he's doing a LOT of research for some of these more complex papers ... they are probably pretty bad papers that will get you average to bad grades. You really cannot talk about certain complex topics without having a decent background in them. Maybe he is some genius savant writer who can crank out 70 pages a day on quantum physics and the current manifestations in breakthrough technologies today, but personally I doubt it. Often times these papers also need proper citations and references so unless he's reading up on all these references, he won't have time to write the actual paper ... Like what was stated before the people paying him give him a lot of the research/citations/their ideas for the project and basically have him put it all together in written form. Anyway it sucks that this goes on but not suprising due to the high competition and the overall lack of patience and work ethic.
It's one thing to be given all the references ... but you actually need to read them to digest all the info in order to actually WRITE the paper. I still doubt he can write a B+ paper for something complex without spending more time than he seems to claim. Seriously ... very very few people can crank out 70 pages a day on anything, not even mentioning proper academic paper.
I have no doubt he's doing some simpler papers regularly and quickly, as well as them getting A's. But unless he's given a lot of time, there is very little chance his quantum physics and modern practical applications 70 page paper will get a B+. Obviously there are a lot of factors including how strict the teacher grading it is, but I think with these kinds of "exciting" anonymous articles, you always have to question how much they are exaggerating.
|
I work at a library, and the amount of students that come in that can't create a properly structured paragraph, let alone a whole paper, is astounding.
I spend a good part of each day explaining how to copy things off wiki, as if I didn't know why they were doing it. They don't even have the smarts to change the font.
I never realized how well I did in school just by writing my own papers, coming up with my own ideas and doing my own research. HighSchool kids who don't know how to use an Index, don't use encyclopedias, and have NO idea how to find things in a library outside of me rounding up all the books they need. It's quite depressing in one way, but quite re-affirming that my work in high-school, college, really payed off in more ways than I realized. Just in terms of being able to integrate ideas and form a coherent statement, let alone being able to make an "A" paper.
I think this will get worse as time goes on, with the internet and basically now, the business of cheating your way through school. Technology has made it all the easier- and the demand is greater than ever. I'm sort-of surprised its already happening at the PhD level, but... I figure it was bound to happen anyways.
|
You think people actually read the entire doctoral thesis?
No. The mindset people get into when reading those things is the same as this ghostwriter's: It is an out-of-body experience. Also remember that professors have invested 5+ years into this person and don't want to believe that he is a cheater and/or dumb.
|
Oh. My. God. That girl's grammar and spelling makes trolls look like geniuses.
|
Cheating in college has gone to ridiculous levels. Hell, cheating at all levels in school is ridiculous.
And I can really see the reason for it too. The likelihood of being caught is very small. The benefit (having a high GPA) is much, much higher than the drawback (not knowing the material for a job that will probably not use 90% of it).
I work as an engineer and at the most I use one chapter of Thermodynamics. No solid mechanics or fluid mechanics, *maybe* very general signals and systems, no circuits, and the most advanced computer program I use is Excel. Okay, some jobs might use more, but not mine, and I'm sure I'm a more typical case.
Something has to be done to reform the educational system to discourage cheating. And I'm not talking about "You can be expelled from school! Oh no!" but rather, connecting education more closely to careers, and greater drawbacks when you don't know the knowledge. Look at the Boeing Dreamliner project, not only is it costing them billions but if they don't design it correctly, people will die... and I know without a doubt that there are many people working on the project that are of the slacking lazy kind who cheated their way through school.
Maybe we need to devalue GPA as a job search criterion. Maybe we need to add more real-world experience instead of just one final project. Whatever it is, I hope we figure it out.
|
On November 18 2010 07:20 zaldinfox wrote:The guy in the article is a sad story. His claims about "contributing to research" in graduate studies is laughable and his boasts about writing 75 pages in two days go to show he has not understood what University or graduate studies is about. One word: "revision." This guy churns out tons of crap that he proudly holds up as being "un-edited," when the whole point of research is that it be constantly looked over, reshaped, challenged, edited, and made into a valuable contribution. I realize he is simply exposing the depth of corruption in the system, but he shows quite clearly that much of this extends from his unwillingness to learn the point of University. The process of writing papers, reading, and being challenged in lectures and seminars is the point. What makes me sad is how on-board TLers are about cheating. You don't understand the irony that you are cheating yourself, as in the following: Show nested quote + I am a 3rd year chemistry major and if I can someone to write all my papers for English/History/*insert course name that has nothing do with my degree here* I will probably do it. The point of taking English and History and other stuff is to compliment your degree so you aren't a specialist who has no exposure to other disciplines and ideas before you go sit in a lab all day. Think of how we all react to 5 year-old kids who are pushed into beauty pageants and made to look inhuman. That is what your brain looks like without breadth. Show nested quote +Sorry, but a fictional writer from 500 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with me, or my future. How sadly mistaken you are. Shakespeare (whom I am assuming you are referencing) shaped the very language you use to communicate. The Science majors think History, Anthro, Philosophy, Literature, Cultural Studies, and all the other Arts are a load of crap and a waste of time. But all studies of science and math find their roots in the Arts. Chronological Snobbery is what the above quote is, plain and simple...
You make a compelling point. I may have difficulty with some classes, and I might struggle on those blasted essays, but they are my own genuine work and ideas 100%. The apathy and decline of morals in our society is what is driving my/our nation (United States) to it's early grave.
Look at the politicians. Do they want to do serious work either? Compare that to high school and college students who are "rich" and unmoral enough to pay for people to write their essays. What we are is human beings, no matter what day and age. Our choices and the way we perceive life carry on, from youth well into old age. You can't simply shake it off and say oh, it's only high school and college. Well, you will be JUST that LAZY in work too then. Then it becomes the blame game and finger pointing when something doesn't go right.
To quote one of my favorite songs- "The world belongs to those who stand out from the rows of wayward and misguided silent souls History is shamed By people laying blame To everyone who doesn’t feel the same" -Machinae Supremacy
|
On November 19 2010 06:09 Kimaker wrote: I love writing my own papers. I'm a history major, and I don't understand why it wouldn't be enjoyable to further delve into a topic that you clearly like (seeing as you're likely majoring in it), and get to provide your own opinion on it.
O_o?
I'm at a loss honestly. Why would someone do this again? Simple answer: some people don't/can't write as well as you. It might be fun to research the topic but getting it onto paper might be a huge mental block for them.
|
Why would you not care about your secondary courses? I don't know how it went for you guys, but at my university I had 4 courses per semester. 2 Courses were my majors (Political Science and Economic History). The other two courses were unrelated to my majors and I could choose ANYTHING from within the humanities department or ANYTHING from any other department for which I fulfilled the prerequisites. So why not pick something that interesting to you, that you enjoy doing on the side and work on it a bit?
I completely disagree with the notion that University education has to be more applicable to current job offerings. The whole point, as many have already mentioned, is to learn how to learn. Work on different subjects, explore directions. Be a bit more on the creative side. If all you learnt was how to do your future job, do you think a majority of current jobs even required a university education? I don't. Most people with a completed university degree say they had no clue what they were meant to do when they got into their job. Surely this is not the same in every field. What I am trying to say is, that there is a certain appreciation for a university education out there, otherwise they would just take some random high school students and trim them to do their job.
|
How did that person get past the literacy test? Or do they not have that in the US?
|
I have done it, but its only because I was on a tight deadline and I was really busy that weekend, but I do agree there are too much competition in the US, and also I see people cheat everyday from simple worksheets to big essays, where some people even bring in other people's essay to paraphrase them and the teachers blatantly do not notice it
|
On November 19 2010 10:16 timmeh wrote:
I completely disagree with the notion that University education has to be more applicable to current job offerings. The whole point, as many have already mentioned, is to learn how to learn. Work on different subjects, explore directions. Be a bit more on the creative side. If all you learnt was how to do your future job, do you think a majority of current jobs even required a university education? I don't. Most people with a completed university degree say they had no clue what they were meant to do when they got into their job. Surely this is not the same in every field. What I am trying to say is, that there is a certain appreciation for a university education out there, otherwise they would just take some random high school students and trim them to do their job.
Then what is the point of a degree? To learn how to learn? That's just fucking stupid. So, I'm paying $10k-$30k a year to be taught how to learn? Honestly, that's the biggest waste of money in the world. I can learn fine on my own. I don't need some Professor or University teaching me how to do it.
That right there though is what's wrong with the education system. When you are going into your first day at a job that requires your degree and you don't what the hell you are doing, then what was the point of all the courses that required you to get your degree? If the whole point was to learn how to learn, then why not just give everyone a "Learned How to Learn Degree" instead of a Chemistry Degree or a Physics Degree. Just sounds stupid to me.
On November 19 2010 10:23 Kenderson wrote: How did that person get past the literacy test? Or do they not have that in the US?
My college tested us on mathematics to get placed in a certain course and that's it. No literacy test what so ever.
|
I find it appalling that the universities would accept a paper from such a student when she wouldn't have been able to perform any legible correspondence in person, how does this not raise red flags?
The system is flawed beyond this system, the increasing nature of "group assignments" in order to teach "teamwork" have lead to people being able to freeload through entire degrees, and cram before exams to get passable marks. Universities scale results or dumb down teachings in order to let more people pass, and in the end all you need to pass is a barely functioning brain at the time.
I am about to finish my undergraduate degree (last exam in next week), and find it shocking that at the end of the day I get the same degree as other people (Bachelor of Computer Science) who barely know the extreme basics. At the end of the day (at least in Australia), your average means nothing. Very few employers look at your GPA, especially past your first job, and even if they do it doesn't matter a whole lot because you can't tell the difference between someone who earned their high marks and someone who paid their way through.
At the end of the day I have to accept these weaknesses and try and take as much from the experience as I can. Obviously, cheating may be easier, but they will know less and have less skills when they enter the workplace and ultimately be the ones struggling to keep jobs. I've had a steady job since I started my degree because I had worked hard and already had more skills than many of those set to graduate alongside me 3 years later.
|
On November 19 2010 09:42 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 06:09 Kimaker wrote: I love writing my own papers. I'm a history major, and I don't understand why it wouldn't be enjoyable to further delve into a topic that you clearly like (seeing as you're likely majoring in it), and get to provide your own opinion on it.
O_o?
I'm at a loss honestly. Why would someone do this again? Simple answer: some people don't/can't write as well as you. It might be fun to research the topic but getting it onto paper might be a huge mental block for them.
I agree, let's be honest, there are some brilliant people out there that are much smarter than me, that don't know how to write any where near the level I write at(which isn't very high mind you, im not trying to brag, but I know I'm better than some of my friends who are absolutely awful), I got through high school and now I'm going through college on the back of my writing and reading skills, where some people I know, are absolutely horrid at writing a paper, especially if it's got any sort of deadline and it's really important... these same people, are absolutely amazing at math, and they can do stuff that is way over my head.
The system is stacked against certain kinds of learning styles, especially in the younger ages before you get to college, where all that matters is test scores.
|
I've always been of the opinion that you aren't paying your university to teach you knowledge, you're paying your university for proof that you know it. There are exceptions, sure, but a vast majority of college classes can be self-taught if you're dedicated enough. Whats the point of going then?
The point is that they give you a piece of paper that tells everyone else in the world that you do indeed know what you say you know. When I sign up for a 3 credit calculus course, I know I'm not paying them to teach me calculus. Sure they help a lot, but ultimately it's my job to learn the material. I'm paying them for a little letter on a piece of paper that proves to everyone else I know calculus. That little letter is nationally accredited and recognized, and that isn't easy to do. So they command a high price for it.
|
On November 19 2010 14:39 sith wrote: I've always been of the opinion that you aren't paying your university to teach you knowledge, you're paying your university for proof that you know it. There are exceptions, sure, but a vast majority of college classes can be self-taught if you're dedicated enough. Whats the point of going then?
The point is that they give you a piece of paper that tells everyone else in the world that you do indeed know what you say you know. When I sign up for a 3 credit calculus course, I know I'm not paying them to teach me calculus. Sure they help a lot, but ultimately it's my job to learn the material. I'm paying them for a little letter on a piece of paper that proves to everyone else I know calculus. That little letter is nationally accredited and recognized, and that isn't easy to do. So they command a high price for it. My thoughts exactly.
|
On November 19 2010 14:48 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 14:39 sith wrote: I've always been of the opinion that you aren't paying your university to teach you knowledge, you're paying your university for proof that you know it. There are exceptions, sure, but a vast majority of college classes can be self-taught if you're dedicated enough. Whats the point of going then?
The point is that they give you a piece of paper that tells everyone else in the world that you do indeed know what you say you know. When I sign up for a 3 credit calculus course, I know I'm not paying them to teach me calculus. Sure they help a lot, but ultimately it's my job to learn the material. I'm paying them for a little letter on a piece of paper that proves to everyone else I know calculus. That little letter is nationally accredited and recognized, and that isn't easy to do. So they command a high price for it. My thoughts exactly. Maybe I should drop out then. College is hella expensive, and it's just hella depressing, man.
|
I think there is a HUGE difference between people who
A: Pay for each essay, pay to get exams questions in advance, pay professors to correct their answers post-exam, use bugs etc
B: Someone who gets an essay written (recycles an old one) once or twice for an unimportant subject. (for example, med students should really learn Anatomy and can be devastating if they never learn something like that)
I can't blame either groups. After all, you should make your life as easy and enjoyable as you can.
|
thesis...
more like thesAIN't!
(insert drumfill)
|
On November 18 2010 10:30 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 10:26 Capook wrote: The real questions are,
What law does this violate?
How do we throw this guy in jail? the ghost writer isn't violating any laws. the students who plagiarize his work are up for explusion/suspension or w/e the school's rule is. There's no reason why he should be in jail Purposefully aiding in the commission of a crime is usually a crime, is it not?
|
On November 18 2010 04:53 Frits wrote: I find it hard to believe that this dude can write a quality report on nearly anything. Sure it's simple enough to write 5 pages an hour but that doesn't mean it will be any good. Each field has it's own set of rules you need to abide by and there are complex concepts that need to be understood and researched before you can start writing a decent paper about them. There's no way any of these papers are getting decent grades on any hard major at a credible university.
I don't know a single person who does this.
It just needs to be better than the student would write and passable... I doubt he's getting straight A's but I'm sure his students are satisfied with a 65
|
As I read this article I varied between amazement "SHIT THIS MAN IS A GENIUS" and disbelief "he must be writing mediocre at best papers for dumb kids who can't tell the difference."
I definitely think that credit must be given for the fact that he can not only churn out a 75 page paper in 2 hours, but also come up with a thesis for said paper that utilizes certain source and CONNECTS and RELATES to the material covered in the actual class/seminar. I snooze through most of my classes, and come time to study for an exam/work on a project, it takes me at least several hours alone to study through the lecture notes and familiarize myself with the material before I can even begin getting my hands dirty. But how good can his papers really be?! Are they capable of outstripping and surpassing papers of genuine, hardworking students who put in far more thought and analysis, but perhaps don't have the technical prowess when it comes to writing extensive papers that he does?
Also, in order to do what he does, to synthesize information that rapidly and churn out what he claims is quality content in so short of a time, couldn't he be making much more than a salary of 66k annum? Couldn't he better use those skills in perhaps one of those bull shitty finance jobs (read: ibanking... jkjk) researching information and compiling extensive powerpoint presentations for clients, etc? Excuse my bias towards certain careers in the finance industry, but my point is: there are definitely jobs out there that pay more than 66k starting salary that would find his particular skill set very very valuable. The job market sucks right now, but to be able to pull off what he does, I'm sure he can write cover letters that reduce his potential employers into weak men waiting breathlessly for his next word, hoping to achieve that final catharsis...
|
Very very good read. Unfortunately though, I would be lying through my teeth if I said that I had never cheated on an exam. I remember quite hilariously calc-based physics exams on E&M where my entire row was one giant line of cheating kids working together to get the A. The engineering program is rough and competitive where I attend, and we all wanted A's.
|
On November 19 2010 18:08 BroisaQT wrote: Very very good read. Unfortunately though, I would be lying through my teeth if I said that I had never cheated on an exam. I remember quite hilariously calc-based physics exams on E&M where my entire row was one giant line of cheating kids working together to get the A. The engineering program is rough and competitive where I attend, and we all wanted A's.
I'm in the same boat. My freshman year especially had a group of about 40 people taking a University based Honors Calculus class.. and not one of us passed that class without cheating. The amount of pressure put onto students is unheard of in some areas. However, if you're in a class that directly pertains to your major, I find cheating on an exam is undermining your career. For example, I'm a Nursing Major and I've scored no less than a 93 on my psychology, A&P and health assessment classes (a precursor to my clinicals) throughout my entire college career. But when it comes to knowing proofs of some bullshit mathematics equation that I will NEVER use in my career, I don't really give a fuck. If i somehow glance over at another's test and copy it, I have no remorse... I'm sure i'm not the only one.
|
And to think I did the same for free... Helped a couple of people get their degrees while I'm still struggling with my own bachelor's. Life is a bitch.
|
On November 19 2010 13:42 Enzyme wrote: I find it appalling that the universities would accept a paper from such a student when she wouldn't have been able to perform any legible correspondence in person, how does this not raise red flags? Well it generally would, but unless it was such a massive leap over past work how would you prove it? For the person to redo the paper in front of you? In most cases, that isn't going to be an allowed for a hunch.
It's one thing to simple pull a paper off Google that can be found again in 30 seconds, but it's something entirely different to have a custom paper.
Besides, I'm sure plenty of people who produce a high level of work have gone this route. They might even be better writers than this guy.
|
|
On November 19 2010 14:53 Gummy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 14:48 teamsolid wrote:On November 19 2010 14:39 sith wrote: I've always been of the opinion that you aren't paying your university to teach you knowledge, you're paying your university for proof that you know it. There are exceptions, sure, but a vast majority of college classes can be self-taught if you're dedicated enough. Whats the point of going then?
The point is that they give you a piece of paper that tells everyone else in the world that you do indeed know what you say you know. When I sign up for a 3 credit calculus course, I know I'm not paying them to teach me calculus. Sure they help a lot, but ultimately it's my job to learn the material. I'm paying them for a little letter on a piece of paper that proves to everyone else I know calculus. That little letter is nationally accredited and recognized, and that isn't easy to do. So they command a high price for it. My thoughts exactly. Maybe I should drop out then. College is hella expensive, and it's just hella depressing, man.
you really got to attend college for yourself, if your not there cause you want to be there your not going to get anything out of it except for a slip of paper thats meaningless to me atlest
sorry bout the financial part, most of us are in same boat including me
if college really isn't for you, then I wouldn't feel guilty about dropping out , I think too many people feel pressured in to this path that isn't for them
cheer up, and enjoy the parts of college that are awesome, grind through the parts that aren't, maybe it's cause Im not a huge pressure filled university that I don't feel what your feeling...a
maybe I took your post too seriously as well, in this case, please ignore this post , its 3:45 am and Im sleepy 
|
No, really, how good of a paper can you write on, say, a heuristic for optimizing a set of functions? Start studying the N-SAT problem, then the proposed heuristic, and describe how and why it works, and when and why it doesn't work. That will take anyone who hasn't already studied computers for years more than just a few hours, it would take months. I imagine similar amounts of time for other fields.
|
Does this article sound fake to anyone else? It's funny when you think about the context...but it sounds a bit over-dramatized to be real. Do people really write like that when they're writing about their own unethical busniess practices? Pretty grandiose.
|
On November 19 2010 21:28 Lobotomist wrote: Does this article sound fake to anyone else? It's funny when you think about the context...but it sounds a bit over-dramatized to be real. Do people really write like that when they're writing about their own unethical busniess practices? Pretty grandiose.
Being a whisteblower is becoming pretty popular nowadays, especially if the information leaked is dramatized a bit. Why would you not - especially when staying anonymous - tell everyone an amazing story about your life?
On the other hand, it seems most unlikely to me, that more of lets say 1-2% of the stundets actually do this on a regular basis. 2 main reasons for it: 1. Money 2. Building at least a basic competence.
|
|
I see advertisement flyers for Custom Essay writers in Australia. Usually they are stuck to traffic poles so as your waiting to cross the road you have "Need an essay finished?" in front of your face.
Luckily I don't study any subjects that require me to write large amounts of words. I'm more of a math person.
|
I liked this article pretty much XD, i did some works for money at some points(nothing this serious of course), was funny and nice to read he really is a good writer ^^
|
On November 18 2010 05:02 domovoi wrote: Not only is it cheating, it devalues your degree and all your peers. If your college results are not consistent with your true ability, employers will be less confident about hiring and may resort to other signals.
I can't really think of a way to solve this. I guess you could make it a misdemeanor to run one of these sites, but there are probably constitutional issues involved with that. Maybe require essays to be written in special programs.
actually one thing i did get out of the economics classes i took in college was that universities and the grades you earned are actually a terrible measure for whether or not somebody will be successful at the job they apply for, even if it's in the same field. however, jobs dont have a lot of resources to work with, so they assume if you worked hard enough to get good grades to get into a prestigious school, then earned good grades at that school, you're displaying enough energy, motivation to want a good job like the one they offer. the thesis of this labor economics class i took was 'school is a terrible indicator of success in a good job, it just shows who's willing to work hard enough and jump through hoops of the educational process to earn the right to try the job. whether or not someone succeeds is a totally different story.'
while the guy in this article is probably hurting the way we see the educational system's credibility a bit, if jobs looked to other signals for hiring people it might actually be beneficial. i'm not sure what they'd use, but using some creativity to change the way we hire couldn't be bad.
|
this is legitimate.
one guy i used to know from a class i used to take offered me $300 to write him a 10 page exam paper because "you seem to know what the hell the professor is talking about." not going to admit whether i took the offer or not, but this does happen.
|
This article is amazing. I'm seriously in awe.
I'm finishing up my masters degree in mathematics education (to become a high school math teacher), and there is SO much wrong with American education. And yet, I can't find myself mad at the writer of this article. It's really intriguing.
|
Well, I didn't think it was that terrible of a thing to do. I used to write essays for people myself. Back in high school people would pay me $50 for an essay. I only write essays on government and economics though. In college I did some for $200 flat fee and additional $40 per page beyond 5 pages.
Most people I've done business with already know the content. If they don't, I spend 5-10 minutes to talk in person (just so the prof wouldn't suspect them) or about an hour through instant messaging if I'm available. I even sort of copy the person's writing style, it's fun and rewarding (maybe they have favorite words to use and I would use them a bit excessively, talking in 3rd/1st person for most of the essay/etc).
|
This article has been exagerated for dramatical purposes but it is, indeed, true. There is no honest way to write an essay. I rather take a test in front of an evaluation committee.
|
I've been paid to write more than a few essays for other students. And as the article writer explains, word of mouth travels fast, and business picks up FAST.
Myself, I limit myself to a few essays every semester mainly because I have my own work to worry about. It is very easy to write generic essays for other students, and if you have the skill I recommend it. The only two tools you need is a keyboard and the internet. Need to learn how the Classical Economic Dichotomy presented itself in the most recent US recession? Google it.
My personal comment on the term 'academic honesty' is this; What planet do you live on? Originality is overrated. True scholars do not make good money, and never will. The people who make fortunes are the ones who pay others to do the original work for them. (Read: Entrepreneur)
|
at the end of the day a diploma is just a piece of paper whether you work for it or not.
you dont learn shit in school, you learn it on the job, you just need the registrar of your university to say you fulfilled your requirement.
|
I don't think I'm really so bad at writing essays that I could pay someone to write a better one for me considering that I would have learned material from the course rather than them.
I read the article, and am glad that it is possible to research a topic using just online resources. He might really help me there for when I take a humantities course in third year.
About cheating, morally I think it is wrong to cheat. You're getting ahead at the expense of others. But I think I would cheat if I knew I had no chance of getting caught and it would improve my grades. Grades mean a lot to me. Just as they will to my first potential employers, and the office of the registrar.
|
at the end of the day a diploma is just a piece of paper whether you work for it or not.
you dont learn shit in school, you learn it on the job, you just need the registrar of your university to say you fulfilled your requirement.
You know....
I'm finishing up my undergrad in engineering and I've done alot of co-op jobs. I look around and I see some people not using what they've learned in school. Then I come along and say something like "oh hey you can model that exponentially" or "interesting, have you considered complexing actions in the reaction" or "have we tried something like selective etching", and they stare at me. They stare at me not because they don't know what I'm talking about, they stare at me because they never though about using that.
You DO learn a bunch of stuff in school. The question is whether or not you apply what you've learned. If you go out of your way to think about the problem, to analyze it, and try to think about what you know, and then apply it.
The people who tell you that you don't learn anything in school are the people who can't use what they've learned. That's your job, the school isn't going to teach you to do that. Nobody's going to teach you to do that - you have to do it yourself.
|
On November 18 2010 04:27 CanucksJC wrote: Im not surprised that something like this is happening... I'd gladly pay someone a reasonable amount to have my exams written and im not even that rich. universities are just too competitive and exhausting these days...
Funny that you are canadian. I had to think about the 'too asian' thread.
|
This has been going on since ever. People are coached for exams, interviews, have people write CVs and essays for them. The trick and employability comes from hiring people good enough to not get caught. The skill in management is to make sure they only screw over your competitors and not your own business (before they prompty run away).
Was always wondering how much you can charge for Med school interview coaching / application form "help" but too lazy to get off my arse and do it. Many kids just have their parents do it though if they are doctors themselves.
66k is pretty decent, especially if you get paid some in cash :>
|
In an effort to enter into this clearly profitable field, I refuse to let my lack of grammar or education hold me back.
For five dollars a page, I am currently working on all junior high , and freshmen book reports and summaries. I draw my line at the 10th grade...... that shit is CRAZY.
|
i can understand why people would do this.
i, for one, am sick and tired of grinding out the same 8-10 page papers about the most introductory topics in my classes instead of spending more time in the class studying the topic deeply. papers are such a bad way of expressing the knowledge of a student. some people i know are brilliant when we talk about various topics, and when i read their writing, i want to cry and slap them. some people are dumb as shit, but can regurgitate facts in a coherent enough way to get an A on a paper.
tl;dr university is set up poorly
|
I've written a couple of people's essays before, sometimes for cash and sometimes for free (usually girls, lol). Looking back, I kind of regret contributing to the problem of near-illiterate graduate-level students in my own minuscule way.
|
I also will take any p.e classes for your struggling overweights minors. I am good at basketball, but terrible at baseball/football.
I promise you will get an A for Effort at least!
|
On November 22 2010 07:14 red_b wrote: at the end of the day a diploma is just a piece of paper whether you work for it or not.
you dont learn shit in school, you learn it on the job, you just need the registrar of your university to say you fulfilled your requirement.
you actually learn a shit ton in school unless you majored in something like art history.
On November 24 2010 10:27 Reikobi wrote: I've written a couple of people's essays before, sometimes for cash and sometimes for free (usually girls, lol). Looking back, I kind of regret contributing to the problem of near-illiterate graduate-level students in my own minuscule way.
was it actually for free or did the girls compensate you in a different manner ?
|
On November 24 2010 10:12 MoonfireSpam wrote:
66k is pretty decent, especially if you get paid some in cash :>
$66k is probably really good depending on where he lives. If he lived in NJ, NY, CA or some other expensive state to live in, $66k might not be that good, but if he lives in some more rural state then $66k is really damn good.
|
3861 Posts
This is what I do for a living. I "edit" personal essays and "help" students with college apps. Wheee! My job is easier than his though, I'm only writing at a high school level
|
Edit: On second thought, this post came off as quite chauvinist and disrespectful to one of TL's most celebrated contributors.
|
On November 18 2010 04:28 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +[B]On November 18 2010 04:23 shindigs wrote: The interesting part to me is that this extends even to the levels of PhD thesises (thesi?) I believe the plural is the same as the singular, i can't remember off the top of my head.
FYI: The plural is "theses" (singular: thesis).
Wow. I recently graduated with my master's (never used one of these services) and was shocked at how widespread this is. I even worked as a graduate teaching assistant, and did the paper grading for some courses. I read an innumerable amount of essays and... would not have believed them to be fakes, but who knows? I guess I could've been duped.
|
I dunno how many of you are making over $66k a year but by the sounds of it you're really trivializing how easy the money is for the amount of time and work he has to put into it. He's basically doing the same thing you did in college except instead of paying out the ass for it he's getting paid ~$66k a year DEPENDING ON HOW HARD HE FREELANCES. He's got financial freedom. That in itself makes his job better than yours. He doesn't HAVE to do his job every day or every week, but once in a while he'll dedicate a day to making a couple thousand dollars.
Sounds pretty fucking good compared to making $33 an hour 40 hours a week. And I'm guessing most of TL makes less than $33 an hour.
|
On November 22 2010 07:14 red_b wrote: at the end of the day a diploma is just a piece of paper whether you work for it or not.
you dont learn shit in school, you learn it on the job, you just need the registrar of your university to say you fulfilled your requirement.
This is absolutely not true. Succeeding in school isn't a terribly difficult task, but it does require a lot of time and fair bit of intelligence. A diploma is, or at least is treated to be, testimony of your ability successfully handle the included varied range of tasks. This includes time management, ability to complete assignments, research, manage social life and school, etc. Having a diploma doesn't mean you're an expert at these sorts of things, or an expert in a specific area (although it does have this connotation somewhat with a MA and definitely with a PhD), but it does mean you were good enough at these things to be trusted be able to handle an entry level or similar position at a company.
|
[B I'm in the same boat. My freshman year especially had a group of about 40 people taking a University based Honors Calculus class.. and not one of us passed that class without cheating. Ok, I have to laugh at the Irony of an Honors calculus class where nobody passed without cheating.
|
I knew two people who were/are doing this kind of job for a living. Anything as major as working for a company but just getting customers through word of mouth etc. As far as I know they only do university level papers though. $500 - $1500
I'm surprised that these paid writers thing isn't common knowledge though.
|
|
My high school english teacher said he would proof last minute essays for about $300. He wouldn't write it for them, but I think his friends who were going for a masters or something were desperate for some revision.
Its just the nature of a competitive academic environment. It'd be great if everyone was sincere about learning at school so we wouldn't need grades, but the world isn't like that.
|
On November 24 2010 17:46 shindigs wrote: My high school english teacher said he would proof last minute essays for about $300. He wouldn't write it for them, but I think his friends who were going for a masters or something were desperate for some revision.
Its just the nature of a competitive academic environment. It'd be great if everyone was sincere about learning at school so we wouldn't need grades, but the world isn't like that. Proofreading is ethical and accepted practice - there has never been a case of someone getting 'busted' for proofreading, since no illicit content is being made. Every big name writer has relied heavily on an editor to make their work publishable.
That said, if your high school english teacher was offering money to his own students we have a problem.
|
This is pretty sad IMO. Writing is a skill; we learn it through reading, trial and error, peer review... Learning how to write is a long and arduous process; however it is very rewarding. I can't blame the people who offer their services to these college kids. The fact is: I would gladly write a 15 page paper for as little as $200 (which would be little in comparison to the rates listed in the website). Be that as it may, it doesn't excuse the students for seeking the help of these writers. Challenge is the best means to learning. I look at my previous papers, as recent as my college admission essay, and I wonder: how the hell did I manage to write something so poorly? It is much more rewarding to develop a skill rather than pay someone else to provide the illusion of having it. That being said; I believe this is morally permissible if you already know how to write well. What you are doing is, basically, paying someone to complete a simple task, that you could perform, but choose not to, because you have more interesting things to do and can afford it.
|
Man, that was a great read. He IS a good writer.
|
On November 18 2010 07:20 zaldinfox wrote:The guy in the article is a sad story. His claims about "contributing to research" in graduate studies is laughable and his boasts about writing 75 pages in two days go to show he has not understood what University or graduate studies is about. One word: "revision." This guy churns out tons of crap that he proudly holds up as being "un-edited," when the whole point of research is that it be constantly looked over, reshaped, challenged, edited, and made into a valuable contribution. I realize he is simply exposing the depth of corruption in the system, but he shows quite clearly that much of this extends from his unwillingness to learn the point of University. The process of writing papers, reading, and being challenged in lectures and seminars is the point. What makes me sad is how on-board TLers are about cheating. You don't understand the irony that you are cheating yourself, as in the following: Show nested quote + I am a 3rd year chemistry major and if I can someone to write all my papers for English/History/*insert course name that has nothing do with my degree here* I will probably do it. The point of taking English and History and other stuff is to compliment your degree so you aren't a specialist who has no exposure to other disciplines and ideas before you go sit in a lab all day. Think of how we all react to 5 year-old kids who are pushed into beauty pageants and made to look inhuman. That is what your brain looks like without breadth. Show nested quote +Sorry, but a fictional writer from 500 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with me, or my future. How sadly mistaken you are. Shakespeare (whom I am assuming you are referencing) shaped the very language you use to communicate. The Science majors think History, Anthro, Philosophy, Literature, Cultural Studies, and all the other Arts are a load of crap and a waste of time. But all studies of science and math find their roots in the Arts. Chronological Snobbery is what the above quote is, plain and simple...
Hey you get out of here with your reasonable posts!
My bachelors is in Physics and I can still remember the papers I wrote for that program. That's why writing a paper is so damn important because to write a decent length about a single subject means that you learn it really well. In my experience I found papers to be about the best way to gain a fundamental understanding of a subject. If you want to talk relativistic electrodynamics, the "recent" (up to 2007) cavity quantum electrodynamics computing experiments, or the prospects of detecting exploding primordial black holes using GLAST (I think it changed names to Fermi or something like that, again 2007), I still remember what the gist of it is because of papers I wrote.
As for the group saying that English or Humanities has nothing to do with your intended major you're so wrong. First, there's the fact that if you intend to pursue a career you're going to have to write well. Clearly communicating a point through an e-mail, whitepaper, technical document, peer-review article, or anything is of paramount importance. Second, people who are Humanities oriented by in large operate differently then those who are Math/Science oriented. By taking humanities courses you expose yourself to different modes of thought, different ways of seeing things. This is fundamentally important and will help you in your proposed careers. To this day I still say that the best course I ever took was a Sophmore/Jr. Level English course on the enlightenment and romanticism. It changed the way in which I view the world as well as improved my writing skills. I say this after having gotten a Masters in Electrical Engineering and being a practicing EE for over a year now.
Ultimately by using these services you hurt others, but, you hurt yourself more.
|
On November 24 2010 12:53 lilsusie wrote:This is what I do for a living. I "edit" personal essays and "help" students with college apps. Wheee! My job is easier than his though, I'm only writing at a high school level  Is this for students who don't have good enough English skill to get into university?
If so, I really really disapprove of your job and think it's ruining post-secondary education. How can a teacher properly explain complex concepts when half of the students in a class struggle with even simple English?
I have no problem with people immigrating here without knowing English; it's not necessary to know it if you stay within your country's immigrant diaspora and get a job serving them in their language. However, if you want to go to university here you'd better know English and know it damn well.
|
3861 Posts
On November 25 2010 01:20 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 12:53 lilsusie wrote:This is what I do for a living. I "edit" personal essays and "help" students with college apps. Wheee! My job is easier than his though, I'm only writing at a high school level  Is this for students who don't have good enough English skill to get into university? If so, I really really disapprove of your job and think it's ruining post-secondary education. How can a teacher properly explain complex concepts when half of the students in a class struggle with even simple English? I have no problem with people immigrating here without knowing English; it's not necessary to know it if you stay within your country's immigrant diaspora and get a job serving them in their language. However, if you want to go to university here you'd better know English and know it damn well.
I try to make it as legit as I can - students write first drafts, I just help with brainstorming. But the final polish goes through me. They also take the SAT and TOEFL exams though - so at least they aren't complete idiots. I edit their essays to match their capabilities.
I understand that it sounds terrible and I agree, it is. Being an English major myself, I enjoyed writing my own papers (and through this job, I'm starting to hate it) and thus, I believe that people should write to their own abilities. However, this is a competitive world, one that is not "fair" and there are people who want to pay for services.
I don't make $66K a year though.
|
I know that in Poland writing papers for others is a pretty bad case as there's a lot of people who just want the paper stating they finished university but are not quite suited for it and a lot of people who were suited, finished uni but can't find a good job so they're willing to earn extra money by writing stuff for others.
Bachelor's degree is not worth anything in Poland. Enginner (which would be Bachelor's equivalent for technical studies) and Masters are what counts.
I once wrote a paper for my friend (for free) so he could pass aesthetics. He passed but got C instead of A for the paper as the woman discovered he wasn't the one to write it (he was dumb not to check it out and learn the intricacies of it before and he didn't know what axiology was when she asked him about it).
|
On November 25 2010 10:19 lilsusie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 01:20 bonifaceviii wrote:On November 24 2010 12:53 lilsusie wrote:This is what I do for a living. I "edit" personal essays and "help" students with college apps. Wheee! My job is easier than his though, I'm only writing at a high school level  Is this for students who don't have good enough English skill to get into university? If so, I really really disapprove of your job and think it's ruining post-secondary education. How can a teacher properly explain complex concepts when half of the students in a class struggle with even simple English? I have no problem with people immigrating here without knowing English; it's not necessary to know it if you stay within your country's immigrant diaspora and get a job serving them in their language. However, if you want to go to university here you'd better know English and know it damn well. I try to make it as legit as I can - students write first drafts, I just help with brainstorming. But the final polish goes through me. They also take the SAT and TOEFL exams though - so at least they aren't complete idiots. I edit their essays to match their capabilities. I understand that it sounds terrible and I agree, it is. Being an English major myself, I enjoyed writing my own papers (and through this job, I'm starting to hate it) and thus, I believe that people should write to their own abilities. However, this is a competitive world, one that is not "fair" and there are people who want to pay for services. I don't make $66K a year though.
Yeah maybe you charge too little 
Imagine not documented side of that business who are mediators, if they have a few guys like him they are making huge profit.
|
On January 15 2011 00:50 Jakalo wrote:Yeah maybe you charge too little  Imagine not documented side of that business who are mediators, if they have a few guys like him they are making huge profit.
well it's only high school students not graduate theses so I guess it's reasonable.
|
This guy is pretty smart. I actually support what he's doing to reveal the US education system as a scam kind of like the way we need maphackers to point out the flaws in battle.net.
|
It's actually school policy that all of my grad classes have to assign a 12 page paper.
Yay busy work.
|
|
Holy comma splice error batman! Maybe you can get this service to also write your TL posts?
|
|
|
|