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The problem is I see no way around that situation : multiple people worker rushing and facing each other constantly. How are we supposed to react ?
Considering that we want to farm as fast as possible, the logical solution is win trading.
This is sad because I kind of have to choose between :
- being a jerk to other farmers and say "I'm not giving you a win, just leave the game", or maybe waste my time and proxy them
- win trade
Neither of those solution satisfy me. Win trading seems borderline legal and it's annoying because I don't know Blizzard's position toward this, and if I'm entitled to consider that the current system encourages us to do that.
Obviously, I don't want to get banned, but it's hard to respect some implicit rules (no win trading) in that situation.
so if some1 offers $2k for the first one to get one of those, let him lose his cash
With all due respect, this contest is off topic because I think none of us farm to get that prize. And even if we were, we wouldn't have the prize since no cheese is allowed.
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On October 03 2010 08:29 Mutaahh wrote:
really, who gives a crap about people abusing the ladder.
It's way worse when you play vs someone that is cheating.... (maphack or something like that)
if players want to have a high rating just for the kicks, let them have their fun, it doesnt affect you anyway.
So ignore them please.
Hacks, that have an impact on your games, that are the ones you should post about
Before you even finished your first sentence it was wrong, since obviously the OP and lots of other people care about people abusing the ladder or abusing X for that matter.
Futhermore why would we ignore people using kick tools or any other hack?
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They're just smart people using a flaw that Blizzard designed to get "worthless" points.
If I had been this smart I would definitly had done it and I see nothing wrong with it like f.ex. Maphack which causes you to gain an unfair advantage, this is just points...
(little bit two-faced here since I achievement grind myself, but by playing fair towards others. I still rush the AI though  )
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On October 04 2010 18:00 Mozz78 wrote:Hello everyone ^^ That's kind of funny, I googled "Win trading Starcraft" to see if Blizzard had said anything about win trading, and found that topic with my name in it (I'm the "Mozz" Happycakes is talking about in his spoiler). By the way, excuse my English, it's not my mother tongue. Basically, what happened is I was worker rushing very slowly at the bottom of bronze league to get the 1000 random wins achievements (at 16 wins per hour approximatively). As I was farming, I met someone who was also farming the achievement (he had the hybrid portrait). Curiously, he was leaving the game constantly when facing me. So I was kind of happy "yeah, this is going faster". Then, at the fifth time, he said to me "Why don't you leave the game this time ? I gave you 4-5 wins already". So I thought to myself that it would only be common courtesy to give him a win. An so it started like that (at least for me because some people were doing that for at least one day before that). The next game, he gave me a win and the next game, I would give him one. And so on... I think that kind of win trading is bound to happen because we are all worker rushing at the bottom of bronze league, we know each other, and there's really no point in worker rushing each other because that would be a guaranteed loss for the one rushing. So, to gain time, it would be better for us to just leave the game instantly. But then, which one of the rusher should leave ? So, as civilised people, we naturally ended up giving each other wins taking turns. After that, it appeared to us as we were leaving games constantly that we were regularly facing the same people again and again as we were winning/losing against him. When you think about it, that makes sense because we keep getting the same "virtual ranking". And that became an improvement to the worker rushing method. So now, some people don't even waste their time worker rushing anymore, they only win trade with another achievement rusher. That's the end of the story, which began probably 2 days ago (at least for me). I would like you to understand that that system emerged naturally among people doing the exact same thing, and not wanting to waste time cheesing each other, as we know how to avoid that kind of cheese. And of course, there's no hack involved. We don't want to be top diamond players for the time being, we just want achievements Have a good day !
It looks like bronze league's seamy underbelly is exposed for all to see.
Although I have to say I'm bewildered that even one person, let alone a whole syndicate of people, would think this is worth the time you put in to get an icon.
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Well, as long as they don't ruin the game of others, which seems quite impossible doing what they are doing, I don't see any harm in it.
The only thing that I don't get is... why the hell would you not play the game, don't you enjoy it? Do you find pleasure in leaving thousands of games just to get a simple portrait? This sounds like something people farming pointless stuff in wow would do, I never really got that either... It's not like you will get efamous as the imba player who exploited his way to all achievements in the friggin game, people will just make a comment and go if you are lucky and perhaps adore the pro player who actually made a real achievement like winning a competition.
I would rather see myself improving as a player instead of wasting countless hours on seemingly nothing, but then again do whatever you want to do as long as you don't ruin the game for others.
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Iol, I was also, just like Mozz (hi btw), mentioned in HappyCakes spoiler. I was doing some randomplay to practice all three races and get some portraits. I figured I had to drop rankings to practice against lesser players and ended up in bronze league. Met a few different guys at the bottom of bronze who left the game, i did some trading and I realise that probably it's the fastest way, though I enjoy playing way too much to wintrade all the way up to 1k. Maybe i'll do it more later when I know it's banproof :p
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On October 03 2010 09:56 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2010 09:47 kojinshugi wrote:
Pretty sure Blizz is gonna strip the achieve and temp ban them for this.
Kinda clever though. Temp ban them for? It sounds like you're jealous if you believe they should be punished for doing something that isn't cheating or hacking.
It's cheating.
Blizzard bans people in WoW all the time for things like two-manning a 25-player raid boss by just standing on opposite ends of the area and having the boss bug out back and forth while they slowly kill him.
No "hacks" are used. Nothing modifies the program code. But if you're knowingly cheating the system, Blizzard will ban you even if you pay them 180 bucks a year. You think they have any qualms about banning someone who doesn't give them recurring income?
This is about fairness, and fairness matters to Blizzard. There are orders of magnitude more players who want this achievement than there are jackasses who cheat to get them.
If cheaters get to keep these merit badges, then they're worthless to people who want to get them legit, because it's superficially indistinguishable from the cheap one. It's in Blizzard's best interest to fight cheating because anyone who actually wants to get 1000 random in a legit way is 100% sure to buy Heart of the Swarm. Discouraging these kinds of dedicated players from playing (by allowing cheating) is the best way to lose repeat customers.
Some people on TL have the attitude that achievements are pointless. Well, to a lot of people who just don't have the skill to be top 200 players, achievements actually do matter. They're a way to distinguish yourself, they're a realistic goal that can be achieved through perseverance, whereas becoming the next Idra or Huk is not a realistic goal for 99.9% of players. And these players outnumber the entirety of TL.net.
On October 04 2010 19:15 Casta wrote:
Well, as long as they don't ruin the game of others, which seems quite impossible doing what they are doing, I don't see any harm in it.
Getting achievements is a game that's as much a part of SC2 as the single-player campaign is. People cheating their way through that is ruining the game of others.
(P.S. personally I don't give two craps about these grindy achievements, in case anyone thinks I'm advocating from my own personal preference. I did all the single player ones because they were fun, winning 4000 ladder games is the furthest thing from fun I can imagine)
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On October 03 2010 08:29 Mutaahh wrote:
really, who gives a crap about people abusing the ladder.
It's way worse when you play vs someone that is cheating.... (maphack or something like that)
if players want to have a high rating just for the kicks, let them have their fun, it doesnt affect you anyway.
So ignore them please.
Hacks, that have an impact on your games, that are the ones you should post about
So because there is a worse thing we should ignore a bad thing ? Seems there is space enough on the internet to post about both issues, methinks.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
personally i think if they want it enough to win-trade thousands games, they deserve it. do whatever makes you happy! kojinshugi's post above is pretty good though, it makes me reconsider a bit.
it's actually really cute that they all met each other doing the same thing =P if blizzard wants this fixed, they should modify fix the matchmaker and leave these guys alone.
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On October 04 2010 19:32 intrigue wrote:
it's actually really cute that they all met each other doing the same thing =P
Am I the only one who found this really cool and fascinating? It just makes me want to read up on more game theory.
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Hi Busbarn
If cheaters get to keep these merit badges, then they're worthless to people who want to get them legit, because it's superficially indistinguishable from the cheap one. It's in Blizzard's best interest to fight cheating because anyone who actually wants to get 1000 random in a legit way is 100% sure to buy Heart of the Swarm. Discouraging these kinds of dedicated players from playing (by allowing cheating) is the best way to lose repeat customers.
Some people on TL have the attitude that achievements are pointless. Well, to a lot of people who just don't have the skill to be top 200 players, achievements actually do matter. They're a way to distinguish yourself, they're a realistic goal that can be achieved through perseverance, whereas becoming the next Idra or Huk is not a realistic goal for 99.9% of players. And these players outnumber the entirety of TL.net.
I understand your argument but by that same logic, worker rushing 1000 games would be cheating too ^^'
Getting 1000 wins is not a matter of skills, it's a matter of patience. And even without win trading, there is already a cheap way to get that achievement : worker rushing (which nobody thinks of as illegal).
A guy who won 1000 random games by playing seriously in diamond league and a guy who won 1000 random games by playing seriously in bronze league are indistinguishable. Still, the first guy has more merit.
In the same way, a guy who won 1000 random games by playing seriously and a guy who won 1000 random games by cheesing are indistinguishable.
The achievement consists in grinding anyway, there is no real merit in having it, except that you proved that you have some dedication to the game. They are not "medals" per say. You can't really compare medals with achievements. You can't grind medals in the real life, you must deserve them.
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There's a massive difference between playing to win quickly (cheesing) and tanking your MMR on purpose so you can literally spam win trades within seconds with your buddy.
Worker rushing is counterable. You'll lose far more than you'll win.
EDIT: As to the medals point, people have gotten purple hearts for shooting their own feet by accident. Any symbol of merit is exactly as prestigious and as "deserved" as you and your peers think.
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These kinds of things are not as worrying with Blizzard's new ranking system with numerous divisions of Diamond league. Nobody gives a shit if you're #1 Diamond. E-fame comes exclusively thru tournaments.
Let the abusers have their fun if they find it worthy of another $60 they're gonna have to pay for a new account.
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On October 03 2010 08:46 Dionyseus wrote:He currently has 0 points in the copper league, so it doesn't seem like a big deal for me. If he were like 3000 in diamond then yea that'd be a big deal. His accomplice is poc.176, who currently has 3 points in copper league. Basically their mmr is so low that's why they keep getting matched against each other. http://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/288079/Wiktorhttp://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/253101/PoC
lmfao
last place and 2nd to last place in the world are training hard ;D
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On October 04 2010 19:48 niteReloaded wrote:
These kinds of things are not as worrying with Blizzard's new ranking system with numerous divisions of Diamond league. Nobody gives a shit if you're #1 Diamond. E-fame comes exclusively thru tournaments.
Let the abusers have their fun if they find it worthy of another $60 they're gonna have to pay for a new account.
Lots of people give a shit. Like the #2 guy, for instance.
This kind of bullshit elitism is just lame. Not everyone will be a pro player and win tournaments and get sponsorship.
That's not cause to divide all the world into "the top 100 sc2 players in the world" versus "bronze through diamond scrubtards".
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Achievements and badges will always be farme dby thoose who consider them thier nr1 priority. Grinding it by using win-trading is fine in my opinion, it hurts no one else and will still be a mark showing thier patience and dedication.
After all, it is not fun to win-trade, hours of mindlessly joining and quitting just for the sake an achievement and a portrait. If they want to spend their time doing that they deserve it imo since it hurts no one else. Reminds me of dedicated Badge-hunters in City of heroes, spending an hour waiting for one minion to spawn for a badge, and after killing it you still have to do it another 99 times.
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On October 04 2010 19:56 DND_Enkil wrote:
Reminds me of dedicated Badge-hunters in City of heroes, spending an hour waiting for one minion to spawn for a badge, and after killing it you still have to do it another 99 times.
I know a guy in WoW who grinded Bloodsail Buccaneers rep to 999/1000 exalted. He did this by camping one mob on a 10 minute respawn timer for six months, then turning in a quest, and then camping a mob on a 24-48 hour random respawn for four more months (to be fair, he just did it by alt-tabbing while watching TV, etc). He's a decent player, but he'll never be a Gladiator or get server first PvE kills. But he's e-famous in his own way for his crazy achievement whoring.
It's completely crazy, yes. It's mindless grinding, yes. But it takes a lot more effort and dedication than simply glitching the thing, which the guys described in the OP are doing.
If the whole point of the achievement is "this takes a lot of time and grinding", then glitching the matchmaking system to get rid of the time factor seems like a pretty significant cheat.
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On October 04 2010 19:52 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 19:48 niteReloaded wrote:
These kinds of things are not as worrying with Blizzard's new ranking system with numerous divisions of Diamond league. Nobody gives a shit if you're #1 Diamond. E-fame comes exclusively thru tournaments.
Let the abusers have their fun if they find it worthy of another $60 they're gonna have to pay for a new account. Lots of people give a shit. Like the #2 guy, for instance. This kind of bullshit elitism is just lame. Not everyone will be a pro player and win tournaments and get sponsorship. That's not cause to divide all the world into "the top 100 sc2 players in the world" versus "bronze through diamond scrubtards".
It is not elitism, achievements are just tricking people into thinking they can become famous when in reality nobody gives a shit.
If you can't get efamous by being pro (which includes me), trying to get famous through achievements just seems an even more pathetic waste of time which could be spent on something useful not necessarily in starcraft.
But hey it is just like real life where lots of people also try to get famous by doing stupid shit, the sooner those people realize that they suck the sooner they can get on with their life and make room for people with real talent and skill.
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Big ups to you, Mozz for coming here and stating your case. Your maturity outclasses most of the regulars here, so I say you should have the right to do whatever the hell you want 
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EPT
