EPTWhy i think TvZ is hard. - Page 5
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ryanAnger
United States838 Posts
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Edso
Canada112 Posts
On September 25 2010 15:16 DanceDance wrote: I agree with this 100%. Baneling are too much of a problem for Terran. They make Marines obsolete which leaves you without enough options to deal with Mutalisks. What other options do you have? Thors are too slow, easily outmaneuvered and extremely expensive. Vikings I would argue are not cost effective against the Mutalisk ball. Raven has HSM - maybe that is the answer? I think something definitely needs to change with Banelings. Banelings arnt that bad to deal with O.o However as them as a unit I don't like, something that suicides itself in hopes of killing shit around it, kinda boring and pretty 1 dimensional. Wish they picked the lurker or something else worthwhile to be the light unit killer over the baneling. | ||
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MementoMori
Canada419 Posts
On September 25 2010 10:55 FindingPride wrote: Also I don't like to utilize thors vs mutas because i dont feel they are cost effective. They cost a shit ton. And i feel if i skip them i can invest into more bio and a 3rd which i think is far more cost effective. As a zerg player I just wanted to comment on this a bit. Just because thors can be beaten with mutas doesn't mean they're not good in my opinion. If you have some thors mixed in with your bio ball it does a few things. 1)The zerg can't be as care free with his muta movement, because if they're bunched at all and a thor gets a shot in it's pretty damaging. 2)soak up a lot of damage and force the zerg to magic box at every engagement. If you're lucky they'll soak up some baneling damage and it's not like thors are bad against ground either! | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
I always feel like I'm in a 'kill zerg now or lose' mode because their end-game options are so incredible. I have yet to beat a competent zerg player once ultras hit the field, and broodlords are rough as well when they force you to tech-switch back and forth. Oh, and don't feel bad about losing to Ryze. He's got a really good ZvT. In a craftcup a while ago I beat MasterAsia pretty easily (very high ranked zerg player) and then lost to Ryze 3-1, if that's any indication. | ||
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Touch
Canada475 Posts
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Moja
United States313 Posts
As Terran, the key to winning this matchup is to keep the bulk of your army alive. Any army trade favors zerg, because they get a free round of powerdroning before they have to start pumping military units to catch up. To follow up, you should continue to push along the same line on the high ground from your natural to his. Set up camp on the ledge with some siege tanks and get a PF down there as your third. If he wants to take a faraway third, fine, let him. You can push into his main and wreck all his tech. Make a habit of sending a scout unit ahead of your army to avoid getting caught off position too. I know it's annoying to do (I still have trouble with it), but it keeps you alive. And try to spend that gas on something... Ravens would probably be ideal for your style (detection is mandatory, and pdd is great if you don't wanna invest in HSM research). Other options are ghosts, thors, or more tanks. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 25 2010 10:55 FindingPride wrote: i just retard yes, but in all seriousness On September 25 2010 10:55 FindingPride wrote: Alot of people will probably say well Pride why didnt you get medivacs? easy answer. I have played with ryze alot. Hes absolutely marvelous at scouting. They will get denied. and another reason for this is as well is the fact that medivacs Cost minerals. Yes minerals. And minerals not spent in more bio = bad. But ideally medivacs help bio. but what use is bio when it gets 1 shotted by banes? see what im saying. So i usually put the extra minerals by not getting medis twords a faster third or more bio. Which imo is a great investment. So folks my consensus is this. What in fucks name should i do? I see alot of terrans like to mass mech up till 200 and just slowly expand. but I don't like this play. There isn't much opportunity for aggression and you can't punish your opponent for mass expanding. what? stim earlier so the medivacs can heal a fair bit before the battle > a few more units denied with what? he has to make less counter your army units to deal with it banes require at least 2 shots save for stimmed non-upgraded marines your 1300 but dislike medivacs? how easy is terran?! | ||
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Toxiferous
United States388 Posts
You can't cry imbalance when you simply refuse to use 90% of your arsenal | ||
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HiHiByeBye
Canada365 Posts
Top's 200 foot max thor army got raped by like 8 ultras (he had about 16 thors) balance plz | ||
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KaiserJohan
Sweden1808 Posts
I can't understand why cool complained about T drops either. As Z, placing OL's in key spots, spread creep and having the most mobile army in the game - mutaling - how hard is it to defend against pressure? Once mutas pop, any sort of pressure tvz is SO risky.How are you going to stop Z macroing? Blings are also crazy. You cant fight at a choke TvZ because you cant spread out units -> you loose, a tight 200 mech army will still loose to muta/ling/bling. Add infestor to the mix, and how hard is it to stop any bio play? Ignore the games Z goes roach/hdyra and just focus on TvZ against muta/ling into ultra play. They sure as hell don't win 9/10 times, atleast now with 1.1 and reaper openings abit weaker. | ||
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Scottymc
Australia134 Posts
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Fadetowhite
Korea (South)302 Posts
[B] I am a 1300 Diamond terran and have played and done well in many many tournaments placing high in each one i play I am also at a 64% win ratio. how can u do well in many tournaments playing like this is beyond me | ||
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lim1017
Canada1278 Posts
i open reactor hellion into banshee or viking harass then turtle up on 2-3 bases for a bit even if i am successful in killing a bunch of drones/overlords/queens early and have my expo up before theirs if left alone for 10 min a good zerg WILL out macro multiple times over, 100% of the time (EG:cool vs top yesterday game 3) i rarely win straight up macro games vs zerg unless they are bad... and i think it is very hard to do so. Zergs that i see lose macro game are usually ones that dont tech to hive fast enough and rely on just mass roach/hydra/ling/muta... | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
Another thing: ultralisks. Am I the only one not seeing a solution to beat them? In sc1 you had the vessel to deal with ultras, but in sc2 I just don't know what to do. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On September 25 2010 19:16 KaiserJohan wrote: I can't understand why cool complained about T drops either. As Z, placing OL's in key spots, spread creep and having the most mobile army in the game - mutaling - how hard is it to defend against pressure? Once mutas pop, any sort of pressure tvz is SO risky.How are you going to stop Z macroing? . Exactly. A lot of zergs advice me to "drop", but a zerg that places overlords on key spots will always catch my medivacs. If the medivac is not catched then speedlings will be under it so dropping will be useless. | ||
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LeaD
Canada464 Posts
On September 25 2010 20:07 Fadetowhite wrote: how can u do well in many tournaments playing like this is beyond me A Zerg player playing like this would be platinum at best. I can't believe how easy it is for Terran to get this high in diamond. | ||
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
jesus, you played that game like a platinum level player. Here are some tips: If you take out his expo ZERG IS SO FAR BEHIND. You couldve just gone and killed him. But you didnt, you stayed in your base and got supply stuck every 20 seconds, while allowing him to get mutas off of 10 zerglings or so. lol. You absolutely need medivacs. Yes 1 medivac is 2 marines less in minerals. But those medivacs will keep your 30 marine ball alive when it has to stim and then stim again. Not getting medivacs is all in since you HAVE to do damage or your army is gone. If he has zerglings get hellions. By simply a-moving with hellions in your army, they will scout ahead and you will know when to siege up. You let him spread the creep to your base. Not good. Scan and take out creep tumors. Banelings with speed on creep > stimmed marines. You had WAY too many turrets. 5 is fine for 2 bases until the muta numbers are exploding but until then you can just go and kill him since mutas are so gas heavy. Going cross map to kill his expo is NOT the correct move in these positions. You couldve just slowpushed him while sim-ciyting your expansion (not doing that is free eco dmg for Zerg) with supply depots and new production facilities. If you slow push correctly with turrets and marine micro he will NOT be able to kill your army. Period. His Mutas die to your stimmed marines with medivac support (Combat Shields also help) and anything on the ground has no chance against well spread out tanks. Also I hate people that cry about imbalance. You have a fuckton of holes in your play, go fix those first, before you start telling Blizzard what is balanced and what isn't. | ||
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Yilar
Denmark90 Posts
Contain him so he only gets to mine main and nat and then just harass those with banshees helions, drops or a few vikings to kill ovies, once the bases are mined out you've won the game. Don't overextend and whatever you do don't go on creep (raven or scan it to kill it). It's all about stopping zerg from getting map control. | ||
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lim1017
Canada1278 Posts
its also very hard to do all of that harass while expanding and getting defense for your expo. its possible to over harass... ive actually lost a couple times when my harass was very successful killed a bunch of drones/overlords etc, The zerg just got mad and attacked with a like 10 of roaches and some lings and i lost.. at the time my army consisted only of a few marines 3-4 hellions 3-4 vikings. impossible to hold your expansion unless you get some tanks or something (but then you cant harass as much) | ||
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Keiras
Czech Republic57 Posts
On September 25 2010 20:31 Dente wrote: Exactly. A lot of zergs advice me to "drop", but a zerg that places overlords on key spots will always catch my medivacs. If the medivac is not catched then speedlings will be under it so dropping will be useless. This is kind of map specific, but at close air positions, it is quite difficult for zerg to manage terran drops. That's because it takes some time for mutas to approach the dropships AND to kill them. In BW days, scourge provided effective defence against drops, because of the instant kill and the fact, scourge were patroling around the critical spots most of the time. The mutas are used to harass and gain mapcontrol. To fulfill its role, they must fly around the map and not be used defensively. That's probably why Cool complained. | ||
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