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charlie420247
United States692 Posts
On September 25 2010 11:26 _Darwin_ wrote: Muta/baneling counters tank/marine. I'm not sure why you are crying imba. If you had made thors after your armory you would have done MUCH better. only with micro idiot. sure bane counters marine but tanks counter bane and have more range and marines counter mutas. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On September 25 2010 11:55 charlie420247 wrote: only with micro idiot. sure bane counters marine but tanks counter bane and have more range and marines counter mutas. He didn't seem to have enough stuff, really. Enough marine/marauder. Perhaps too heavy marine, but it's hard to say. Anyhow, if you're not at a level where you can properly micro your infantry, then muta baneling likely is OP. | ||
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charlie420247
United States692 Posts
when he starts coming at you stim your mm ball and move back but then make the marauders stop and fire, killing and sponging banes while your marines keep running back. as far as mutas go upgraded marines i think work even BETTER than thors. of course theres also the fast hellion with +1 attack into thors with +2 attack that is a really really good style play vs zerg. | ||
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charlie420247
United States692 Posts
On September 25 2010 11:56 MythicalMage wrote: He didn't seem to have enough stuff, really. Enough marine/marauder. Perhaps too heavy marine, but it's hard to say. Anyhow, if you're not at a level where you can properly micro your infantry, then muta baneling likely is OP. ya most games in general come down to who has the most stuff but you said he should have gotten thors, which means he would have even less stuff overall. i think he could have done alot better with just better micro. | ||
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charlie420247
United States692 Posts
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FindingPride
United States1001 Posts
On September 25 2010 11:44 MythicalMage wrote: Constructive Criticism: 1) You scouted the zerg in close positions, yet made no attempt at any harass/pressure. You didn't even throw down a bunker or anything. 2) You didn't get any addon on your barracks, and you didn't get stim. How can you push without stim? It also seemed like you were lacking on production facilities when you expanded, but that's just a gut feeling, nothing solid. 3) You move your not enough marines too far forward, and let your tanks get surrounded by zerglings. 4) You scouted muta baneling, and yet you continued to make marine tank, without medivacs, and without shields. 5) Your micro/positioning was really awful in the second "battle." You effectively sacrificed all your tanks. 6) You made a third CC with nowhere to expand to safely. 7) You were floating upwards of 900 gas, with no air tech. (Medivacs, or ravens.) 8) Then you died, and didn't gg. you didnt watch the game. I can tell because u said no attempt to harass or pressure. also. boxer couldn't micro those marines any better. The banes never got to them really. So i dont know why people are saying i need to micro better. If you could kindly point out how id love to hear it. Maybe at the end battle but the game was over anyways at that point but im not talking about that im talking about the midgame push . | ||
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ibreakurface
United States664 Posts
On September 25 2010 10:58 Headshot wrote: Just because your TvZ is weak doesn't mean that Terran is weak. You can easily stim micro you bio away from Banelings off of creep, and going more marine-heavy and putting Turrets in good locations around your base nullifies Mutas. Unless you spend half your income on turrets I don't see how that will nullify mutas. Nonetheless, I'm indifferent about the matchup balancing. The strategy of sc2 isn't developed enough to pass judgment on race balance issues. | ||
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aztrorisk
United States896 Posts
they are perfect for harassing mineral lines as well has destroying mutalisk. However, don't expect 3 vikings to be able to take out 5 mutas. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On September 25 2010 12:02 FindingPride wrote: you didnt watch the game. I can tell because u said no attempt to harass or pressure. also. boxer couldn't micro those marines any better. The banes never got to them really. So i dont know why people are saying i need to micro better. If you could kindly point out how id love to hear it. Maybe at the end battle but the game was over anyways at that point but im not talking about that im talking about the midgame push . I watched it twice. Unfortunately. A timing push isn't "pressure". And it certainly isn't harass. And I'm pretty sure Boxer wouldn't move command his marines away from the battle to let his tanks die. As for the early push, before the banes were out, you just moved your marines too far forward from your tanks. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On September 25 2010 12:05 aztrorisk wrote: vikings. Vikings own multa+ling combo if you have 2 starport and reactors they are perfect for harassing mineral lines as well has destroying mutalisk. However, don't expect 3 vikings to be able to take out 5 mutas. Cept all zerg units that can hit air are cost effective against vikings. | ||
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sc2lime
Canada513 Posts
On September 25 2010 12:02 FindingPride wrote: you didnt watch the game. I can tell because u said no attempt to harass or pressure. also. boxer couldn't micro those marines any better. The banes never got to them really. So i dont know why people are saying i need to micro better. If you could kindly point out how id love to hear it. Maybe at the end battle but the game was over anyways at that point but im not talking about that im talking about the midgame push . It's not all about microing the marines better but it was more about how you are way out of position and he had the BEST counter for your unit composition. You already lost every time you pushed out with your army because bio (specially marines) just gets obliterated vs banes/mutas; hence why you needed thors. As for how to counter banelings, you get in good position with your tanks sieged and protected by marines or marauders and if he attacks, select your tanks and right click on banes. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On September 25 2010 12:15 sc2lime wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 25 2010 12:02 FindingPride wrote: you didnt watch the game. I can tell because u said no attempt to harass or pressure. also. boxer couldn't micro those marines any better. The banes never got to them really. So i dont know why people are saying i need to micro better. If you could kindly point out how id love to hear it. Maybe at the end battle but the game was over anyways at that point but im not talking about that im talking about the midgame push . It's not all about microing the marines better but it was more about how you are way out of position and he had the BEST counter for your unit composition. You already lost every time you pushed out with your army because bio (specially marines) just gets obliterated vs banes/mutas; hence why you needed thors. As for how to counter banelings, you get in good position with your tanks sieged and protected by marines or marauders and if he attacks, select your tanks and right click on banes. Yeah, it takes a LOT of banelings to kill a Thor. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On September 25 2010 12:05 aztrorisk wrote: vikings. Vikings own multa+ling combo if you have 2 starport and reactors they are perfect for harassing mineral lines as well has destroying mutalisk. However, don't expect 3 vikings to be able to take out 5 mutas. If thats not off base I don't know what is. Mutas eat up vikings unless you manually spread them. Splash + FF and vikings fall. | ||
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Lucid90
Canada340 Posts
second of all, why didn't you do any agresion after you kills his hatch the first time. The zerg should of been able to stop your push but he didn't make enough lings, and lost his hatch. After he started to rebuilt it was the perfect to time to kill it again. 8 stimmed marauders can finish a brand new hatch in a matter of seconds. You should of made a timing push when he was powering drones and didn't have any units. Also making purely marine tank IMO is not good. Banelings are one of the very few hard counter unit zerg has against T. Banelings kill marines wonderfully, marauders okay assuming you can hit like 8 at a time and you can get enough banelings to hit, and they also kill hellions pretty well assuming you can get them to hit (hellions are light armored units). Incorperating marauders into your unit mix would of been a good idea, and maybe more medivacs later on in the game. Your overall gameplay isn't perfect. There are a lot of large holes in your game that you need to fix before you start whining about balance. Fix those first and then start complaining. I haven't played seriously in a couple of weeks and im a 1200 diamond zerg. | ||
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killa_robot
Canada1884 Posts
On September 25 2010 10:55 FindingPride wrote: But Im trying to figure out if there is any way to make bio work. This is pretty much what you're entire posts boiled down to, you felt you played extremely well (yes your tone is quite cocky and you've been very defensive in this thread) and then you wondered why you couldn't win with your bio only (and tanks). Its clear you don't want to play mech, or have anything to do with thors or hellions, however your opponent countered your bio ball with the exact counter he should have, hence the moment you decided to stick with that composition you lost the game. Thors are about equal cost in killing mutas, and thats only if the zerg player micros properly. If he screws up the thors will chew those mutas up like nothin. For the love of everything use medivacs, they are amazingly good, no banelings do not 1 shot marines, it takes 2 hits and yes thats a big difference. Many people here gave you very good advice, and you choose to ignore that advice because for the most part they said you screwed up, which for some reason you can't seem to accept. If you want to win you have to use more than 3 units, especially when your opponent is hard countering those units. [Also vikings are terrible vs mutas per cost, don't listen to that person] | ||
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Uncertain
United States19 Posts
On September 25 2010 11:25 FindingPride wrote: i play a high skill level. im 99.9% positive. I've taken maps off nearly all the top players on the NA server. I have a good sense of what im talking about. As to getting out played. I think your missing the point entirely. i did ALOT of damage was over 30 FOOD ahead. and i COULD NOT punish my opponent. this is a high level game. Just yesterday infact ryze out macrod morrow on the ladder much like he did to me this game. The highest food you were ever ahead was 24 at 12:18 and did not attack at that time. The highest food you were ahead when you attacked was 17 at 14:09 or so when you got caught moving your tanks and marines towards his 3rd. Being ahead by food doesnt mean anything when there is no fighting at that time. Also your timing push at the beginning did more harm to you than him after that battle the lost tab had you losing 12 units worth 1150 and him losing only 8 units worth 625, 100 of which was an overlord in your base. 300 for the hatchery and the rest were zerglings. You didnt kill one drone or the queen. That attack put you behind. You were 4 workers ahead at that moment but you lost almost double the resources in your attack. I just wanted to point that out in case maybe you gave us a different replay than the one you are looking at. | ||
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Dr.Frost
United States389 Posts
Just saying. It's easier than any other match. | ||
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Highwayman
United States181 Posts
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
You are trying to justify avoiding a certain unit in your composition simply because you are trying to find its weaknesses, instead of trying to exploit is strengths. Medivacs are amazing even with marine/medivac vs blings...if you add stim micro. here are the reasons you lost: 1. After trading a small force for the zerg nat, you don't continue the pressure, the zerg felt safe to power for literally the rest of the game. No added pressure means a strong economy. 2. You refuse to get more bling meatshields. 1 thor or a few maraders in a different control group could have changed the battle. yes one thor vs 6 mutas might not be cost effective, but 1 thor with 20 stimmed marines can take out an entire flock of mutas. 3. For whatever reason, you let the zerg creep all the way up to you. Thus making the last battle really easy for the blings to get to your marine line. 4. You blindly run tanks around the map. Just like in bw TvP, you cant just move tanks across the map and expect to win. you have to make sure the coast is clear before you try any sort of positioning game. Which of course you cant do when running across creep. Think from the zergs perspectives. When is the best time to attack? When he is unseiged on my creep. Bingo | ||
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ibreakurface
United States664 Posts
On September 25 2010 12:37 iAmJeffReY wrote: If thats not off base I don't know what is. Mutas eat up vikings unless you manually spread them. Splash + FF and vikings fall. If you micro 9 range on vikings isn't so useless. | ||
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