: Realm : North America Your name : Pandain Hacker Name : YOSHI Replay : Hmm... is there a place to upload replays without having to register somewhere? Description : This guy didn't do anything abnormal, at first. He was just doing a failed proxy. Then after it fails, and when its obvious im going to win, he pauses. Then iw ait a while, being nice and all. Then, when i try to unpause, it just leaves me with the screen "options" and "score screen". When I'm forced to press score screen, it says the game isn't recorded. Wth?
On October 26 2010 05:35 Pandain wrote: : Realm : North America Your name : Pandain Hacker Name : YOSHI Replay : Hmm... is there a place to upload replays without having to register somewhere? Description : This guy didn't do anything abnormal, at first. He was just doing a failed proxy. Then after it fails, and when its obvious im going to win, he pauses. Then iw ait a while, being nice and all. Then, when i try to unpause, it just leaves me with the screen "options" and "score screen". When I'm forced to press score screen, it says the game isn't recorded. Wth?
1) drophacks are not really provable based on one game (need a match history showing 100% win ratio, multiple dropped games, all games under 6 minutes, or something similar) 2) replay is required 3) character code is required
If you want this complaint to be taken seriously, you need to fix all three.
On October 25 2010 07:25 aidnai wrote: Hacker confirmation Ugulup + Show Spoiler +
On October 24 2010 02:08 CptThule wrote: Realm : Europe Your name : CptThule Hacker Name : Ugulup Replay : http://rapidshare.com/files/426742425/cheater.SC2Replay Description : Its a TvP match,i was doing the iechoic build,and he knew exactly when my medvac would reach his base and at what angle. He then started chasing it around the map even thought he couldnt normally know where my medvac was.(his observer was with his army) Obvious things to note : After watching the replay from his point of view,i noticed him looking at my base throught the fog of war multiple times. The medvac chase was pretty funny thought,and i still managed to drop him.:p
He later told me this was a smurf account and that his previous account(top diamond ranked)was banned due to complains about spamming/flaming(yeah right..)
Yay first post! So yeah, this does look like maphacks. The more damning evidence is the frequent looks through the fog... In the early game, your hacker does a great job reacting to the minimap and not constantly looking through the fog, but by 15 minutes, he seems to give up on that and just looks.
5:30 looking at base 13:12 looking at army in fog 16:00 finds the dropship 16:18 looks at MM force under fog 16:38 looking at MM again 18:36 looks at marine controlling XNT several times from 16:00 to 20:00 looking at army at terran nat 20:30 inspects entire terran army/base 23:10 more inspection of the army/nat
so yeah, after 16 minutes or so he is constantly looking at your base, nat, and army under fog.
Good job beating him though! btw, please please make sure you add the character code to your post.
On October 07 2010 17:22 arb wrote: All replays from pages 1-8 are added, ill try to get to the ones here later
Also, take ZOMGtossrush as a warning, dont post obviously fake replays in this thread, one is bad but posting what 5? times is just stupid.
Also as drophacks are hard to confirm with the fact that bnet 2.0 is kinda..shitty, try to avoid posting those aswell, unless they are mapping or somethinglike that(basically idk how you would prove them)
for the record, i have only posted suspecting 3 players, and this is after i have about 1200 1v1 games.
Thanks for all the ppl who said i posted 5 and was constantly posting, got a ban because you didn't get your facts straight :/
This thread needs to be edited. So that there is some sort of guidelines of what is suscipion, and what isn't. Because there is not set rules of what can/can't be posted. I saw a guy looking through the fog of war at the start of the round, and i suspected. Apparently I was incorrect suspecting maphacks using that as evidence.
Mods, maybe you can discuss more clearly what is accepted for posts so I don't get confused again.
You accused KeepSeven twice, total of four accusations. And every single one of your accusations was completely unfounded, not even suspicious. And you had several silly defensive posts about your accusations, one of which you got warned for.
What is truly ironic, is that you now accuse the reviewers in this thread of being the reason you got banned. You got banned for what is essentially libel, false accusations and slander, and you respond by coming back to this thread and accusing even more.
You need to accept the fact that you get outplayed sometimes, and that is was your own fault you got banned. You are the only person who fails to see it that way, so either accept the facts or else decide that this thread is not the right place to solve your 'hacker problems'.
All i did was post that I thought ppl were hacking. Isn't that what this thread is for? I can be wrong or right, but i had suspicion. Maybe my suspicion weren't solid enough, in which you can tell me so. As i suggested, there should be some sort of basic guidelines for what is possible evidence for hacking.
That is all.
When 3-4 posters are(implying) saying I am spamming this thread with all of my loses and start attacking me that I can't handle loses, its pretty fucking demeaning. You don't know me. Why would you take things to a personal level?
Like i was trying to defend myself, pre-ban. I have well over 1000 games played. I think its reasonable to think that of those 1k plus games someone might be hacking. And clearly with my now 600+ loses, i don't rage and just post every lose on this thread like you are trying to convince ppl i do.
I never have/tried to "fuck with this thread" as the mods claim I have tried. I just have some replays where ppl look through the fog. If there are any more clearcut ways to detect hackers, i would love to know, honestly, hence the request for a more indepth OP. Because even if i meet a player who stares at my base more than his own, and want to post that, I am afraid to because in my experience, its "he better be hacking or you get a 2 week ban."
I love tl, and the mods, but I think some of the users are simply immature(like you). And when these users throw personal insults me for my suspiciousness, its pretty bm. I don't see other ppl on this thread get chastised for "getting it wrong," as so many ppl/mods have done to me.
Can't we all just get along?
I would like to get along. That's why I did my absolute best not to use insults or demeaning language.
The issue is not that everyone in this thread decided "he better be hacking or you get a 2 week ban." The issue is that there needs to be some evidence, any evidence at all of hacking in the replays you submit. If you are genuinely unable to see that your hacking reports were frivolous, I suggest you take a look at replays of confirmed hackers (there are plenty in this thread) to get a feel for it.
How about instead of responding we keep read the OP, and keep talk on replays and not on his false accusations(which i dont particularly care about) and ill probably update this after i get back from work tonight,(by tonight i mean in 13 hours ~_~)
However, if you want to come up with a list of things not to submit(for replays that are clearly false) like you suggested earlier that would be great!
Aye aye, cap'n. (actually it was zomgtossrush that suggested a list of what not to submit, I think it should be obvious, but w/e).
Good evidence for hacks (post replays that show things on this list):
Repeated camera focus on the enemy (your) base when it is under fog, without giving unit orders (attack/move)
Repeated camera focus on your army outside your base, but under fog, especially without giving unit orders. This doesn't mean your opponent sending a marine to a XN watchtower when you have a probe there is hacks though.
Camera focus on dropships/ovies/warp prisms or any unit in an unusual location on the map for no when it is under fog and there is no reason to look there.
Reactions to the army when it is under fog (this one is tricky though, as there is often a decent excuse for the hacker's army movement, for example, moving to take a XN tower, moving to secure a third, moving to threaten an expo, positioning the army better, etc. For this to be solid evidence, there should be no obvious goal for the army movement other than a reaction to what is seen via maphack.)
Weak evidence for hacks (i.e. not enough evidence by themselves):
Proxying the correct location without scouting.
Anticipating drops/muta timing/DT's/VR's/backstabs etc. Some people just take these things into account in their normal build order.
Unit composition/blind counters. It could very easily be dumb luck that your opponent went VR's without scouting when you went pure marauder. Or whatever.
One or two glances at your main under fog. Everyone does this normally (at least I do), to remember what building they scouted, or to send a scout, or to feel more confident about the map/walloff position/whatever. If you're on a 4 player map and your opponent only looks at your main (before scouting), then that's evidence, but occasionally glancing can be normal too.
Not evidence for hacks:
Losing to someone with lower APM
Getting dropped by b.net when you were winning
Perfect timing with a push. A hallmark of high level play is well timed pushes, catching you when you are teching or expanding and are vulnerable. By itself this is not evidence.
(I'm not trying to piss you off by using you as an example, zomgtossrush, I just want to make it explicit that the sort of thing you used for those replays is not even weak evidence of hacks).
If your replay doesn't contain some hard evidence, don't start slandering the player who beat you. Even if a replay contained every single piece of 'weak' evidence I listed, I wouldn't consider that to be enough evidence to put the player on the confirmed hacker list. Suspicious, yes, but not confirmable. (maybe with multiple replays..dunno)
The point of this thread is not to discuss what is and what isn't evidence of hacking, so please don't start replying to this with your own ideas. If Arb or any mods have a problem with my standards for evidence, I will be happy to change this list (I'm just a random guy afterall). If anyone else has a issue, PM me and I'll consider what you say. Lets keep this thread for its original purpose--reporting hackers.
On October 05 2010 03:20 Flyingdutchman wrote: Realm : EU Your name : Swiminzerg & Wowsukz Hacker Names : Antimatter.628 & Jigzaw.302 Replay : http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/87759-2v2-protoss-zerg-tempest Description : PP v ZZ on Tempest, they rush lings without scouting. So I check replay and see one of them rally his hatch to our base even before building his pool or any form of scouting. Jigzaw even follows our probes that go build our initial pilons, i.e. looking at us through FOW
I'm not able to view this replay, not sure why... when I try, I get a black screen with a SC2 mouse cursor.
that is pretty weird, did you watch it in the latest patch with the sc2loader? (double clicking the replay file I mean) Maybe that could be the problem, since it is a game from the previous patch. In any case, it was a very short game so maybe it was just dumb luck, although I cheked their history and it was basically all they did, they won on maps with multiple spawnlocations and lost on the 2v2 maps with fixed spawn locations, usually by beating one player and then getting stomped by the other. I've reported them ingame to blizzard, if they really were hacking and get banned it would be nice, but otherwise meh, life goes on
Realm : NA Your name : StorrZerg.412 Hacker Name : Athena.392 Replay : http://rapidshare.com/files/427691167/Storr_vs_odd_player.SC2Replay Description : PvP On LT He said he had an aka but hes lvling his friends acct. When i lost i assumed i was just terrible (i still think i am) but i noticed many things really really fishy
Ok starts off with him doing korean warp gate. No scout, sends scout straight to my base as tech almost finishes and plants a pylon. I kill pylon preventing the rush. I go for void rays since we are close positions. His army soon moves back and hes expanded. He has stalkers out when i arrive so i retreat and try to sneak an expo (note he sees my probe move out) Shortly after void ray repealed he sends 3 zealots to my nexus thats warping in. (he attacks straight to it)
I go to save the expansion and his army moves towards my expo as well (he has no map control this game) I save my expo and ff ramp to save my army he retreats. He sends his entire army soon after to kill my hidden expo, i move to counter him, he moves back before i engage him or even finishing my nexus off.
Again this whole time hes got great "decision making" with no map control.
There were like 3 moves that seemed.....really like, 1 in every 50 games it'll happen.
I mean first things first obviously scouting an expo that JUST started ubilding is like wow, how'd you see that coming when you're 4 gating someone who's natural reaction should be to tech, not sneak an expo cross map. K thats weird, but slightly excusable in saying "well he just got lucky"
Then theres the fact that he never scouted tech the whole game but felt confident enough to go zealot sentry stalker instead of a more safe 4 gate in that you want to be able to have a unit that can do well against everything, ie: more stalker heavy. K thats slightly excusable, maybe he's jsut bad
THE FISHIEST PART ABOUT THAT REPLAY., and you can ask storr, i originally was saying that this dude didn't hack it was just a bad player/luck, and you'd need 10 replays to prove anything
check around 13:45. Athena pushes into storr's watch tower with stalkers and sees storr pull back, then Athena uses his units to kill that expansion at 9 o clock.
Why, at about 14:45 does Athena pull his whole army killing that 9 o clock back to his main? He has a free, undefended expansion to be killing at 9 o clock, and he just pushed Storr back to his choke, there is zero reason to assume that storr is going to be counter pushing up Athena's own choke at that point, yet he gets his force at 9 o clock to perfect engage storrs army between storr's choke and the watch tower at just the right time?
Sorry, that last play seemed way too suspicious to me, there are 3 plays in this game that dont' seem reasonable but thats the biggest one for me.
I can't say 100% he's a hacker but to pull stupid plays like that, just seems weird.
Put this dude under suspicious as fuck, and especially as someone who streams on TL thats pretty messed up to pull.
Check the 18 minute m ark also, EXACT smae thing happens, he's shooting down a free xpo, its at like 100 hp and he pulls back just at the right time to defend? no thats a load of shit, everyone kills that expo in that situation, there was no ping on the mini map saying he's under attack, and there was only one flicker of a phoenix (which you would assume is for harass, not an attack) on the minimap, and he doesn't even SEE the phoenix, he pulls back.
This is getting closer and closer to 100%, and if its true he should have his stream revoked etc. from TL. Just disgraceful.
On October 26 2010 05:35 Pandain wrote: : Realm : North America Your name : Pandain Hacker Name : YOSHI Replay : Hmm... is there a place to upload replays without having to register somewhere? Description : This guy didn't do anything abnormal, at first. He was just doing a failed proxy. Then after it fails, and when its obvious im going to win, he pauses. Then iw ait a while, being nice and all. Then, when i try to unpause, it just leaves me with the screen "options" and "score screen". When I'm forced to press score screen, it says the game isn't recorded. Wth?
1) drophacks are not really provable based on one game (need a match history showing 100% win ratio, multiple dropped games, all games under 6 minutes, or something similar) 2) replay is required 3) character code is required
If you want this complaint to be taken seriously, you need to fix all three.
On October 25 2010 07:25 aidnai wrote: Hacker confirmation Ugulup + Show Spoiler +
On October 24 2010 02:08 CptThule wrote: Realm : Europe Your name : CptThule Hacker Name : Ugulup Replay : http://rapidshare.com/files/426742425/cheater.SC2Replay Description : Its a TvP match,i was doing the iechoic build,and he knew exactly when my medvac would reach his base and at what angle. He then started chasing it around the map even thought he couldnt normally know where my medvac was.(his observer was with his army) Obvious things to note : After watching the replay from his point of view,i noticed him looking at my base throught the fog of war multiple times. The medvac chase was pretty funny thought,and i still managed to drop him.:p
He later told me this was a smurf account and that his previous account(top diamond ranked)was banned due to complains about spamming/flaming(yeah right..)
Yay first post! So yeah, this does look like maphacks. The more damning evidence is the frequent looks through the fog... In the early game, your hacker does a great job reacting to the minimap and not constantly looking through the fog, but by 15 minutes, he seems to give up on that and just looks.
5:30 looking at base 13:12 looking at army in fog 16:00 finds the dropship 16:18 looks at MM force under fog 16:38 looking at MM again 18:36 looks at marine controlling XNT several times from 16:00 to 20:00 looking at army at terran nat 20:30 inspects entire terran army/base 23:10 more inspection of the army/nat
so yeah, after 16 minutes or so he is constantly looking at your base, nat, and army under fog.
Good job beating him though! btw, please please make sure you add the character code to your post.
On October 07 2010 17:22 arb wrote: All replays from pages 1-8 are added, ill try to get to the ones here later
Also, take ZOMGtossrush as a warning, dont post obviously fake replays in this thread, one is bad but posting what 5? times is just stupid.
Also as drophacks are hard to confirm with the fact that bnet 2.0 is kinda..shitty, try to avoid posting those aswell, unless they are mapping or somethinglike that(basically idk how you would prove them)
for the record, i have only posted suspecting 3 players, and this is after i have about 1200 1v1 games.
Thanks for all the ppl who said i posted 5 and was constantly posting, got a ban because you didn't get your facts straight :/
This thread needs to be edited. So that there is some sort of guidelines of what is suscipion, and what isn't. Because there is not set rules of what can/can't be posted. I saw a guy looking through the fog of war at the start of the round, and i suspected. Apparently I was incorrect suspecting maphacks using that as evidence.
Mods, maybe you can discuss more clearly what is accepted for posts so I don't get confused again.
You accused KeepSeven twice, total of four accusations. And every single one of your accusations was completely unfounded, not even suspicious. And you had several silly defensive posts about your accusations, one of which you got warned for.
What is truly ironic, is that you now accuse the reviewers in this thread of being the reason you got banned. You got banned for what is essentially libel, false accusations and slander, and you respond by coming back to this thread and accusing even more.
You need to accept the fact that you get outplayed sometimes, and that is was your own fault you got banned. You are the only person who fails to see it that way, so either accept the facts or else decide that this thread is not the right place to solve your 'hacker problems'.
All i did was post that I thought ppl were hacking. Isn't that what this thread is for? I can be wrong or right, but i had suspicion. Maybe my suspicion weren't solid enough, in which you can tell me so. As i suggested, there should be some sort of basic guidelines for what is possible evidence for hacking.
That is all.
When 3-4 posters are(implying) saying I am spamming this thread with all of my loses and start attacking me that I can't handle loses, its pretty fucking demeaning. You don't know me. Why would you take things to a personal level?
Like i was trying to defend myself, pre-ban. I have well over 1000 games played. I think its reasonable to think that of those 1k plus games someone might be hacking. And clearly with my now 600+ loses, i don't rage and just post every lose on this thread like you are trying to convince ppl i do.
I never have/tried to "fuck with this thread" as the mods claim I have tried. I just have some replays where ppl look through the fog. If there are any more clearcut ways to detect hackers, i would love to know, honestly, hence the request for a more indepth OP. Because even if i meet a player who stares at my base more than his own, and want to post that, I am afraid to because in my experience, its "he better be hacking or you get a 2 week ban."
I love tl, and the mods, but I think some of the users are simply immature(like you). And when these users throw personal insults me for my suspiciousness, its pretty bm. I don't see other ppl on this thread get chastised for "getting it wrong," as so many ppl/mods have done to me.
Can't we all just get along?
I would like to get along. That's why I did my absolute best not to use insults or demeaning language.
The issue is not that everyone in this thread decided "he better be hacking or you get a 2 week ban." The issue is that there needs to be some evidence, any evidence at all of hacking in the replays you submit. If you are genuinely unable to see that your hacking reports were frivolous, I suggest you take a look at replays of confirmed hackers (there are plenty in this thread) to get a feel for it.
How about instead of responding we keep read the OP, and keep talk on replays and not on his false accusations(which i dont particularly care about) and ill probably update this after i get back from work tonight,(by tonight i mean in 13 hours ~_~)
However, if you want to come up with a list of things not to submit(for replays that are clearly false) like you suggested earlier that would be great!
Aye aye, cap'n. (actually it was zomgtossrush that suggested a list of what not to submit, I think it should be obvious, but w/e).
Good evidence for hacks (post replays that show things on this list):
Repeated camera focus on the enemy (your) base when it is under fog, without giving unit orders (attack/move)
Repeated camera focus on your army outside your base, but under fog, especially without giving unit orders. This doesn't mean your opponent sending a marine to a XN watchtower when you have a probe there is hacks though.
Camera focus on dropships/ovies/warp prisms or any unit in an unusual location on the map for no when it is under fog and there is no reason to look there.
Reactions to the army when it is under fog (this one is tricky though, as there is often a decent excuse for the hacker's army movement, for example, moving to take a XN tower, moving to secure a third, moving to threaten an expo, positioning the army better, etc. For this to be solid evidence, there should be no obvious goal for the army movement other than a reaction to what is seen via maphack.)
Weak evidence for hacks (i.e. not enough evidence by themselves):
Proxying the correct location without scouting.
Anticipating drops/muta timing/DT's/VR's/backstabs etc. Some people just take these things into account in their normal build order.
Unit composition/blind counters. It could very easily be dumb luck that your opponent went VR's without scouting when you went pure marauder. Or whatever.
One or two glances at your main under fog. Everyone does this normally (at least I do), to remember what building they scouted, or to send a scout, or to feel more confident about the map/walloff position/whatever. If you're on a 4 player map and your opponent only looks at your main (before scouting), then that's evidence, but occasionally glancing can be normal too.
Not evidence for hacks:
Losing to someone with lower APM
Getting dropped by b.net when you were winning
Perfect timing with a push. A hallmark of high level play is well timed pushes, catching you when you are teching or expanding and are vulnerable. By itself this is not evidence.
(I'm not trying to piss you off by using you as an example, zomgtossrush, I just want to make it explicit that the sort of thing you used for those replays is not even weak evidence of hacks).
If your replay doesn't contain some hard evidence, don't start slandering the player who beat you. Even if a replay contained every single piece of 'weak' evidence I listed, I wouldn't consider that to be enough evidence to put the player on the confirmed hacker list. Suspicious, yes, but not confirmable. (maybe with multiple replays..dunno)
The point of this thread is not to discuss what is and what isn't evidence of hacking, so please don't start replying to this with your own ideas. If Arb or any mods have a problem with my standards for evidence, I will be happy to change this list (I'm just a random guy afterall). If anyone else has a issue, PM me and I'll consider what you say. Lets keep this thread for its original purpose--reporting hackers.
Will add this post to the OP, I apologize for the delay but working 3rd shift isnt easy ><
Also if anyone wants to take a look at reps on like bot of 9-11 that would be appreciated, will add Zlashers up to the OP soon
On October 05 2010 03:20 Flyingdutchman wrote: Realm : EU Your name : Swiminzerg & Wowsukz Hacker Names : Antimatter.628 & Jigzaw.302 Replay : http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/87759-2v2-protoss-zerg-tempest Description : PP v ZZ on Tempest, they rush lings without scouting. So I check replay and see one of them rally his hatch to our base even before building his pool or any form of scouting. Jigzaw even follows our probes that go build our initial pilons, i.e. looking at us through FOW
I'm not able to view this replay, not sure why... when I try, I get a black screen with a SC2 mouse cursor.
that is pretty weird, did you watch it in the latest patch with the sc2loader? (double clicking the replay file I mean) Maybe that could be the problem, since it is a game from the previous patch. In any case, it was a very short game so maybe it was just dumb luck, although I cheked their history and it was basically all they did, they won on maps with multiple spawnlocations and lost on the 2v2 maps with fixed spawn locations, usually by beating one player and then getting stomped by the other. I've reported them ingame to blizzard, if they really were hacking and get banned it would be nice, but otherwise meh, life goes on
Ok, I guess the old version thing was the problem, but also I didn't have the map so maybe I was offline trying to watch before or something dunno. Worked this time.
It is somewhat suspicious that the zergs rallied to your base without scouting, since you were cross positions. Also suspicious that Jigsaw spent a little time inspecting your main before any scouting/rallying. I did not observe either player following your probes under fog however, please rewatch and confirm this. If I'm wrong and missed it, just state the specific time and who's vision to watch.
Unfortunately, I don't think there's enough evidence based on lucky rallying. It's entirely possible that they both assumed the map had only symmetrical spawns (on the flip side of this mistake, I've heard commentators talk about lucky scouting on two player maps lol). So, suspicious, but not confirmable imo.
On October 07 2010 22:49 xggamerx wrote: europe:
me: xggamerx hacker:tripstar rep thread:http://uploading.com/files/a17f3e2c/suspicious%2Bpvt.SC2Replay/ Description : well i proxy him he saw my probe but he didnt see that i was making gateway in his base and he stright sent 3 scv together on gateways and then minute 8:08 when i sent my units to kill the rocks on his side he stright sent marines there and when i sent my units back to his choke and again without vision he sent his marines back to the choke! just very suspicious i belive this dude hacks so i just want you to check it out
map:blistering sands
Agree with Kibbit and Noam here, no good evidence of hacks. He probably sent the marines over to the rocks to kill the pylon, and found your 'lots. When your zealots ran to the other entrance, he had vision of them moving that way, obvious what to do...
On October 11 2010 04:31 Elderbury wrote: Realm : North America Your name : Elderbury Hacker Name : Lugert Replay : SC2S_2959_Lugert_vs_Elderbury_Lost_Temple.sc2replay Description : Not sure if this is a hack or not so thought I would seek the opinion of those more expert than I. I'm just a lowly bronze player who loses most of his matches, so I'm not complaining about that. But this guy immediately sent his SCV to my choke point at the beginning of the game so block my SCV from building a supply depot. Thing is, he never came into my base to see if I was there or not but just waited at the outside entrance. He never scouted any of the other possible starting locations. IF he had done this to all three possible starting locations, it could have been strategy. But why come to mine and wait for me without even scouting?
Hmm... pretty low level play, and without strong evidence of hacking, there could be any number of reasons for your opponent acting as strange as he did. For every replay of this guy getting a lucky scout on a four player map (i think it was a scout because he didn't seem to have a plan for building anything with it), there is probably two more with him getting unlucky scouting. Not enough evidence imo.
On October 29 2010 08:13 StorrZerg wrote:
Realm : NA Your name : SrorrZerg.412 Hacker Name : Athena.392 Replay : http://rapidshare.com/files/427691167/Storr_vs_odd_player.SC2Replay Description : PvP On LT He said he had an aka but hes lvling his friends acct. When i lost i assumed i was just terrible (i still think i am) but i noticed many things really really fishy
Ok starts off with him doing korean warp gate. No scout, sends scout straight to my base as tech almost finishes and plants a pylon. I kill pylon preventing the rush. I go for void rays since we are close positions. His army soon moves back and hes expanded. He has stalkers out when i arrive so i retreat and try to sneak an expo (note he sees my probe move out) Shortly after void ray repealed he sends 3 zealots to my nexus thats warping in. (he attacks straight to it)
I go to save the expansion and his army moves towards my expo as well (he has no map control this game) I save my expo and ff ramp to save my army he retreats. He sends his entire army soon after to kill my hidden expo, i move to counter him, he moves back before i engage him or even finishing my nexus off.
Again this whole time hes got great "decision making" with no map control.
If this isn't cheating im sorry
^^lol you spelled your name wrong hehe
Jeez, another really tough call. Since this guy is on TL, I'd like to hear him defend himself. The main problem I see in this replay is the perfectly timed army movements without map vision (a XN tower or something come on).
However, if he is a hacker, he is quite good at it (he's quite a good player anyway, he had a 5-7 worker advantage even after you got your third up)... I did not find any instances of looking through fog and some of the other things you mention (finding the sneaky third; scout straight to your base) are plausible w/o hacks.
Going by my own standards a few posts above, the only 'good' evidence we can possibly find is reacting to the army without vision of it. So... argh, hard call, this might need more eyes or more discussion. In the end though, I think it is 'innocent until proven guilty', and if we can't prove anything....well.
On October 26 2010 05:35 Pandain wrote: : Realm : North America Your name : Pandain Hacker Name : YOSHI Replay : Hmm... is there a place to upload replays without having to register somewhere? Description : This guy didn't do anything abnormal, at first. He was just doing a failed proxy. Then after it fails, and when its obvious im going to win, he pauses. Then iw ait a while, being nice and all. Then, when i try to unpause, it just leaves me with the screen "options" and "score screen". When I'm forced to press score screen, it says the game isn't recorded. Wth?
1) drophacks are not really provable based on one game (need a match history showing 100% win ratio, multiple dropped games, all games under 6 minutes, or something similar) 2) replay is required 3) character code is required
If you want this complaint to be taken seriously, you need to fix all three.
On October 25 2010 07:25 aidnai wrote: Hacker confirmation Ugulup + Show Spoiler +
On October 24 2010 02:08 CptThule wrote: Realm : Europe Your name : CptThule Hacker Name : Ugulup Replay : http://rapidshare.com/files/426742425/cheater.SC2Replay Description : Its a TvP match,i was doing the iechoic build,and he knew exactly when my medvac would reach his base and at what angle. He then started chasing it around the map even thought he couldnt normally know where my medvac was.(his observer was with his army) Obvious things to note : After watching the replay from his point of view,i noticed him looking at my base throught the fog of war multiple times. The medvac chase was pretty funny thought,and i still managed to drop him.:p
He later told me this was a smurf account and that his previous account(top diamond ranked)was banned due to complains about spamming/flaming(yeah right..)
Yay first post! So yeah, this does look like maphacks. The more damning evidence is the frequent looks through the fog... In the early game, your hacker does a great job reacting to the minimap and not constantly looking through the fog, but by 15 minutes, he seems to give up on that and just looks.
5:30 looking at base 13:12 looking at army in fog 16:00 finds the dropship 16:18 looks at MM force under fog 16:38 looking at MM again 18:36 looks at marine controlling XNT several times from 16:00 to 20:00 looking at army at terran nat 20:30 inspects entire terran army/base 23:10 more inspection of the army/nat
so yeah, after 16 minutes or so he is constantly looking at your base, nat, and army under fog.
Good job beating him though! btw, please please make sure you add the character code to your post.
On October 07 2010 17:22 arb wrote: All replays from pages 1-8 are added, ill try to get to the ones here later
Also, take ZOMGtossrush as a warning, dont post obviously fake replays in this thread, one is bad but posting what 5? times is just stupid.
Also as drophacks are hard to confirm with the fact that bnet 2.0 is kinda..shitty, try to avoid posting those aswell, unless they are mapping or somethinglike that(basically idk how you would prove them)
for the record, i have only posted suspecting 3 players, and this is after i have about 1200 1v1 games.
Thanks for all the ppl who said i posted 5 and was constantly posting, got a ban because you didn't get your facts straight :/
This thread needs to be edited. So that there is some sort of guidelines of what is suscipion, and what isn't. Because there is not set rules of what can/can't be posted. I saw a guy looking through the fog of war at the start of the round, and i suspected. Apparently I was incorrect suspecting maphacks using that as evidence.
Mods, maybe you can discuss more clearly what is accepted for posts so I don't get confused again.
You accused KeepSeven twice, total of four accusations. And every single one of your accusations was completely unfounded, not even suspicious. And you had several silly defensive posts about your accusations, one of which you got warned for.
What is truly ironic, is that you now accuse the reviewers in this thread of being the reason you got banned. You got banned for what is essentially libel, false accusations and slander, and you respond by coming back to this thread and accusing even more.
You need to accept the fact that you get outplayed sometimes, and that is was your own fault you got banned. You are the only person who fails to see it that way, so either accept the facts or else decide that this thread is not the right place to solve your 'hacker problems'.
All i did was post that I thought ppl were hacking. Isn't that what this thread is for? I can be wrong or right, but i had suspicion. Maybe my suspicion weren't solid enough, in which you can tell me so. As i suggested, there should be some sort of basic guidelines for what is possible evidence for hacking.
That is all.
When 3-4 posters are(implying) saying I am spamming this thread with all of my loses and start attacking me that I can't handle loses, its pretty fucking demeaning. You don't know me. Why would you take things to a personal level?
Like i was trying to defend myself, pre-ban. I have well over 1000 games played. I think its reasonable to think that of those 1k plus games someone might be hacking. And clearly with my now 600+ loses, i don't rage and just post every lose on this thread like you are trying to convince ppl i do.
I never have/tried to "fuck with this thread" as the mods claim I have tried. I just have some replays where ppl look through the fog. If there are any more clearcut ways to detect hackers, i would love to know, honestly, hence the request for a more indepth OP. Because even if i meet a player who stares at my base more than his own, and want to post that, I am afraid to because in my experience, its "he better be hacking or you get a 2 week ban."
I love tl, and the mods, but I think some of the users are simply immature(like you). And when these users throw personal insults me for my suspiciousness, its pretty bm. I don't see other ppl on this thread get chastised for "getting it wrong," as so many ppl/mods have done to me.
Can't we all just get along?
I would like to get along. That's why I did my absolute best not to use insults or demeaning language.
The issue is not that everyone in this thread decided "he better be hacking or you get a 2 week ban." The issue is that there needs to be some evidence, any evidence at all of hacking in the replays you submit. If you are genuinely unable to see that your hacking reports were frivolous, I suggest you take a look at replays of confirmed hackers (there are plenty in this thread) to get a feel for it.
How about instead of responding we keep read the OP, and keep talk on replays and not on his false accusations(which i dont particularly care about) and ill probably update this after i get back from work tonight,(by tonight i mean in 13 hours ~_~)
However, if you want to come up with a list of things not to submit(for replays that are clearly false) like you suggested earlier that would be great!
Aye aye, cap'n. (actually it was zomgtossrush that suggested a list of what not to submit, I think it should be obvious, but w/e).
Good evidence for hacks (post replays that show things on this list):
Repeated camera focus on the enemy (your) base when it is under fog, without giving unit orders (attack/move)
Repeated camera focus on your army outside your base, but under fog, especially without giving unit orders. This doesn't mean your opponent sending a marine to a XN watchtower when you have a probe there is hacks though.
Camera focus on dropships/ovies/warp prisms or any unit in an unusual location on the map for no when it is under fog and there is no reason to look there.
Reactions to the army when it is under fog (this one is tricky though, as there is often a decent excuse for the hacker's army movement, for example, moving to take a XN tower, moving to secure a third, moving to threaten an expo, positioning the army better, etc. For this to be solid evidence, there should be no obvious goal for the army movement other than a reaction to what is seen via maphack.)
Weak evidence for hacks (i.e. not enough evidence by themselves):
Proxying the correct location without scouting.
Anticipating drops/muta timing/DT's/VR's/backstabs etc. Some people just take these things into account in their normal build order.
Unit composition/blind counters. It could very easily be dumb luck that your opponent went VR's without scouting when you went pure marauder. Or whatever.
One or two glances at your main under fog. Everyone does this normally (at least I do), to remember what building they scouted, or to send a scout, or to feel more confident about the map/walloff position/whatever. If you're on a 4 player map and your opponent only looks at your main (before scouting), then that's evidence, but occasionally glancing can be normal too.
Not evidence for hacks:
Losing to someone with lower APM
Getting dropped by b.net when you were winning
Perfect timing with a push. A hallmark of high level play is well timed pushes, catching you when you are teching or expanding and are vulnerable. By itself this is not evidence.
(I'm not trying to piss you off by using you as an example, zomgtossrush, I just want to make it explicit that the sort of thing you used for those replays is not even weak evidence of hacks).
If your replay doesn't contain some hard evidence, don't start slandering the player who beat you. Even if a replay contained every single piece of 'weak' evidence I listed, I wouldn't consider that to be enough evidence to put the player on the confirmed hacker list. Suspicious, yes, but not confirmable. (maybe with multiple replays..dunno)
The point of this thread is not to discuss what is and what isn't evidence of hacking, so please don't start replying to this with your own ideas. If Arb or any mods have a problem with my standards for evidence, I will be happy to change this list (I'm just a random guy afterall). If anyone else has a issue, PM me and I'll consider what you say. Lets keep this thread for its original purpose--reporting hackers.
Thanks for your impartial post. And you have made a pretty good list, that probably should have been added before.
My evidence was probably weak by you reasonable standards(i did have 2 suspicious replays as you mentioned), it's still reasonable suspicion,(mainly looking at the fog of war right at the start, and before important attacks) however weak it was, it was still suspicious. I assumed that this thread was for posting suspicious replays, then if as a community voted yes or no, would then be under the confirmed section of the op.
Another intention of this thread which i misinterpreted was that I thought if a player was posted a suspicious, this would arise other TL members to re-watch replays if they met the same players on bnet. Like you briefly mentioned, having more replays is more concrete than just one.
I guess I am just sour, that even though the community voted i was "wrong," i received a 2 week ban for it and a slew of slanderous comments because I was posted a weaker replay. This kind of "ganging" which i felt is something that just puts this community one step back.
Thanks for the addition to the thread as hopefully this will help others avoid my outcome.
Any hacker in the "Name and shame"-list, is gonna change name :/. I suggest we start posting their number IDs as well - so people with the same names aren't mistaken as cheaters.
Realm : Europe Your name : imakki Hacker Name : ANOTHER Replay : http://starcraft2.fi/replay/lataa.php?id=837 Description : I was trying new imba strat 8 proxypylon and 2 gateways, and this guy makes 10 rax, 11 rax and 11 bunker to counter my imba strat without any scoutting, kinda wierd. Im myself 2100p diamond, and my opponent: http://sc2ranks.com/eu/899230/ANOTHER, few things to note: 1. He has a new account. 2. He is playing against highlevel diamonds. Obvious things to note : Builds 10 rax, 11rax and 11 bunker to counter my proxygates which he didnt even scout. When he killed all my zealots inside his base, he runs straight to my proxygates. When i pull all my probes from base he pulls his marines to his base and starts building another bunker, why would he decide to do that when he was fine killing my zealots?
On November 06 2010 02:55 mazqo wrote: Realm : Europe Your name : imakki Hacker Name : ANOTHER Replay : http://starcraft2.fi/replay/lataa.php?id=837 Description : I was trying new imba strat 8 proxypylon and 2 gateways, and this guy makes 10 rax, 11 rax and 11 bunker to counter my imba strat without any scoutting, kinda wierd. Im myself 2100p diamond, and my opponent: http://sc2ranks.com/eu/899230/ANOTHER, few things to note: 1. He has a new account. 2. He is playing against highlevel diamonds. Obvious things to note : Builds 10 rax, 11rax and 11 bunker to counter my proxygates which he didnt even scout. When he killed all my zealots inside his base, he runs straight to my proxygates. When i pull all my probes from base he pulls his marines to his base and starts building another bunker, why would he decide to do that when he was fine killing my zealots?
Please include the character code for you opponent.
Also, your description focuses on 'softer' evidence of hacking. Did you observe his camera movement and find anything suspicious there?
On November 06 2010 03:10 aidnai wrote: Please include the character code for you opponent.
Also, your description focuses on 'softer' evidence of hacking. Did you observe his camera movement and find anything suspicious there?
Will take a look at this when I get a chance.
Where can i see his character code? I did observe the camera movement, it was "normal", nothing suspicious there. I also talked to one of his last opponents and he also tought that he might be maphacking.
This one should be added at the top not only as a hacker for the list - but as the EXAMPLE of what to look for.
Psy steps you through the hacking signs very clearly.
~looking at unscouted base through fog repeatedly ~pre-empting unscouted enemy unit movement ~looking through the fog at previously empty expansions suddenly the moment a hatchery is thrown down ~not building any scouting units at all for whole game ~looking at groups of enemy units through fog with no scouting
On November 08 2010 00:09 CptThule wrote: Realm : Europe Your name : CptThule Hacker Name :zionteck Replay :http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=163817 Description : Pretty obvious maphack usage,you dont have to watch the whole 33 minute game. First funny moment is at 5:33 when he zooms in to check if my probe at the xel naga tower is feeling bored.:p
I cant find his character code right now,but i have a link for his sc2rank page. if someone could help would be nice.
ps:second maphacker i face in a short period of time and this guy was bm also after the game :/
Maphacker for 99%. This zoom at Xelnaga/SCV is priceless, also moving his army to the edges, when your drop/banshees are coming prove something...
Cant find his character code, but check your match history and lure his profile there.
On November 06 2010 02:55 mazqo wrote: Realm : Europe Your name : imakki Hacker Name : ANOTHER Replay : http://starcraft2.fi/replay/lataa.php?id=837 Description : I was trying new imba strat 8 proxypylon and 2 gateways, and this guy makes 10 rax, 11 rax and 11 bunker to counter my imba strat without any scoutting, kinda wierd. Im myself 2100p diamond, and my opponent: http://sc2ranks.com/eu/899230/ANOTHER, few things to note: 1. He has a new account. 2. He is playing against highlevel diamonds. Obvious things to note : Builds 10 rax, 11rax and 11 bunker to counter my proxygates which he didnt even scout. When he killed all my zealots inside his base, he runs straight to my proxygates. When i pull all my probes from base he pulls his marines to his base and starts building another bunker, why would he decide to do that when he was fine killing my zealots?
Weird stuff here, after watching replay I could say he is f***ing maphacker. Who doing such a things (bunker/runs straight to proxy) without scouting... Also pause at the start of the game... I have no idea how maphacks works, but I bet he enabled it during that.
Realm: North America Name: Leeto Hacker: ggmylife Replay: Replay Link Description: Looks repeatedly at my base through the fog of war, never scouts the entire game. Follows my troop movements and where I'm expanding through the fog, and reacts appropriately. Some key things: At 6:53 he looks at lings going up the right side to kill the rocks, and at around 7:15 he sends guys to kill the lings at the rocks, but at 7:21 he looks at my roaches coming up the middle through the fog, and tells his guys to come back. At 11:26, he moves his army to the middle of the map, probably to expand, but looks at my mutas through the fog, and moves his guys back to his natural to defend, even warping in stalkers at the natural without ever seeing the mutas. At 11:37, he looks through the fog at where I just started my 3rd, and sends guys to kill it. At 14:30, I try to take the 3rd again, and he looks at it through the fog and again sends guys to kill it.
Maybe he just has an insane sense of timing, but without ever scouting my base other than the first probe, seeing nothing but a hatchery the entire game, I doubt it. It wasn't the best game on my part, but I still feel that there is good evidence for maphacking.
@1337o Didnt have to watch past the 7:22 mark,definately a maphacker. Everytime he looks into the fogofwar,pause the replay and go to the everyone cam and then back to his cam.You can clearly see he was checking at your units.
EPT
