EPTVery different from back in BW, where if you wanted to heal your drops, you'd have to use some space for medics. Plus they required using those starports for dropships instead of science vessels.
Should Buildings be Armored? - Page 8
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caewil
Singapore26 Posts
Very different from back in BW, where if you wanted to heal your drops, you'd have to use some space for medics. Plus they required using those starports for dropships instead of science vessels. | ||
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eth3n
718 Posts
Siege Tanks Reapers DT drop Immortals VR rush Ultralisks (which are actually getting buffed v buildings in important respects in the next patch) Muta Snipe (outlying buildings) The above tactics all require significant effort or a substantial risk of loss VR/DT/Reapers/Mutas are all glass cannon and easily preventable, so their use is only if the opponent is leaving themselves vulnerable, and none of these units generally are made to work well in a 1a Siege Tanks and Immortals don't really drop that well into a base (ignoring cliff abuse), if the player is steadily crawling with tanks or sending in Immortals with a 1a then you can't really complain. Ultras are tier3 and Z tier3 takes forever, if you let the game go on that long you should be able to counter or should have already won/lost Marauders however are a basic unit that has a place in every major composition. They are relatively cheap for their power (not a gas sink whatsoever) and can easily be massed to run them in with stim or drop them in main with stim. This can take out multiple tech buildings in a matter of seconds even if you have the army there to kill them. I hate to be broken record here but the marauder unit in its current form doesn't seem right. I think the idea of only defensive structures have armor is an interesting compromise which would leave the stimpak on the marauder yet deal with one of the most annoying aspects of the marauder. | ||
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cHaNg-sTa
United States1058 Posts
On September 11 2010 10:43 eth3n wrote: I honestly think it is the marauder. The OP stated it well. Other units that rape buildings: Siege Tanks Reapers DT drop Immortals VR rush Ultralisks (which are actually getting buffed v buildings in important respects in the next patch) Muta Snipe (outlying buildings) The above tactics all require significant effort or a substantial risk of loss VR/DT/Reapers/Mutas are all glass cannon and easily preventable, so their use is only if the opponent is leaving themselves vulnerable, and none of these units generally are made to work well in a 1a Siege Tanks and Immortals don't really drop that well into a base (ignoring cliff abuse), if the player is steadily crawling with tanks or sending in Immortals with a 1a then you can't really complain. Ultras are tier3 and Z tier3 takes forever, if you let the game go on that long you should be able to counter or should have already won/lost Marauders however are a basic unit that has a place in every major composition. They are relatively cheap for their power (not a gas sink whatsoever) and can easily be massed to run them in with stim or drop them in main with stim. This can take out multiple tech buildings in a matter of seconds even if you have the army there to kill them. I hate to be broken record here but the marauder unit in its current form doesn't seem right. I think the idea of only defensive structures have armor is an interesting compromise which would leave the stimpak on the marauder yet deal with one of the most annoying aspects of the marauder. Pretty much. Stimmed Marauders are the most retarded thing in the game right now. | ||
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Krohm
Canada1857 Posts
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SC2Phoenix
Canada2814 Posts
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HubertFelix
France631 Posts
Marauders drop cannot be stopped by static defense which is kind of crazy for a unit that has such a low gas cost. Seriously, it's like a reaver drop, it's dumb. | ||
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P00RKID
United States424 Posts
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hizBALLIN
United States163 Posts
On September 11 2010 10:43 eth3n wrote: I honestly think it is the marauder. The OP stated it well. Other units that rape buildings: Siege Tanks Reapers DT drop Immortals VR rush Ultralisks (which are actually getting buffed v buildings in important respects in the next patch) Muta Snipe (outlying buildings) The above tactics all require significant effort or a substantial risk of loss VR/DT/Reapers/Mutas are all glass cannon and easily preventable, so their use is only if the opponent is leaving themselves vulnerable, and none of these units generally are made to work well in a 1a Siege Tanks and Immortals don't really drop that well into a base (ignoring cliff abuse), if the player is steadily crawling with tanks or sending in Immortals with a 1a then you can't really complain. Ultras are tier3 and Z tier3 takes forever, if you let the game go on that long you should be able to counter or should have already won/lost Marauders however are a basic unit that has a place in every major composition. They are relatively cheap for their power (not a gas sink whatsoever) and can easily be massed to run them in with stim or drop them in main with stim. This can take out multiple tech buildings in a matter of seconds even if you have the army there to kill them. I hate to be broken record here but the marauder unit in its current form doesn't seem right. I think the idea of only defensive structures have armor is an interesting compromise which would leave the stimpak on the marauder yet deal with one of the most annoying aspects of the marauder. Game. Set. Match. Gameover. End of Game. I personally think taking Armored off buildings or adding a new category for them would potentially muddle things up pretty badly. Marauders without stim do really nasty things to buildings even in small numbers, but with stim four marauders can wreck a hatch faster than nearby speedlings (their most effective counter in that small of a number) can engage and kill them without losing the Hatch In my mind the solution is simply removing stim from Marauders. People will argue that they won't be able to kite as well, but Marauders shouldn't need stim AND concussive shell to kite. Removing stim from Marauders will force terran players to make more tanks/thors, which promoted more varied unit compositions (something Blizzard loves) and punishes a terran player going marauder like they're going out of style. 60 stimmed marines can be pretty nasty to deal with but they still have counters. 30 stimmed marauders don't really have a single viable counter short of air, but with stim they can still sprint to their target, annihilate it, and have served their purpose. Some of them (if not most) will most likely survive the attack, and get back to the player's base. It's stim on marauders that I have issue with. No units, not even the ones intended to destroy buildings, decimate structures like Marauders do. And none of the anti-building units have the availability of Marauders (not even reapers, given the building time disparity, which will only become more drastic in the upcoming patch). Marauders seemed to be a unit initially designed with a fairly specific purpose in mind, but specialized units should be something you punish an opponent for getting. There's simply no way to punish terran massing marauders short of going mass air, at which point your ground army is so weak that Marauder army can simply A-move your base and win. | ||
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cyprin
United States1105 Posts
I had an idea that's probably going to be shot down as terrible but I think that the health cost shouldn't be able to be healed by medivacs. As is, there is absolutely no downside to stimming over and over if you have a handful of medivacs over your army. Stimming should have drawbacks, it doesn't right now. | ||
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KillerPlague
United States1386 Posts
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blitzkrieger
United States512 Posts
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KeiQQ
United States113 Posts
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Chronopolis
Canada1484 Posts
On September 11 2010 06:18 ltortoise wrote: ...? Stargate is also easier to get to, and phoenix have many uses, such as countering ALL Terran air if massed (due to their incredibly high hp and fantastic speed). I don't understand your points. First, stargate units do not have incredibly high hp. Individually a void ray may have 250 hp, but when you consider you could get 440 hp worth of marines, or 375 hp worth of marauder. Secondly, void rays have to be charged to even get their full dps out. Unless the terran is terrible, he is going to make this hard for the protoss. And even when the void rays are charged, they are not spectacular against marines, only about average. A terran player can quickly pump out vikings to out range and rape the void rays. When you have 12+ void rays, it's VERY hard to get them all charged. Banshees are a very strong complement to a terran's army because: -They have a very competetive damage, stalker vs banshee cost effieciency is almost the same -They can take a lot of shots from the primary anti-air -They can CLOAK when upgraded, and 2-shot probes -They do not need to charge -They're damage is better on light units -The terran ball synergizes well with banshee, as any combination of terran ground (think tanks, marauder, marines) demolishes stalkers. Marauders in the end-game are: -Massable (small profile means even the back row of marauders is always shooting) -Durable (1 base armor, 105 hp when stimmed, they can weather most aoe's and survive to be healed by the medivac) -Fast (unthinkably fast, they are the same speed as SPEED RAYS when stimmed) -Base razers (as this thread points out) I think one of the above should be changed... | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
If i'm not mistaken all buildings are classified as armored. It seems like buildings fall much too fast to units that do bonus damage to armored. This means that units such as Marauders can take down buildings insanely fast especially late game in large quantities. Marauders are the main issue because they are a easily massable unit that does +damage to armored and when you combined them with stim, it causes Marauder balls to annihilate buildings with no risk since Marauders are amazing units just to have in your army. It just doesn't feel right when an army of Marauders come in, stim, and run around sniping buildings in 1 volley. I'm totally into units that do bonus damage specifically against buildings such as Reapers. What I don't like is having massable units that do +damage vs armored. Its too much reward without risk imo. This would fix marauders and give reapers more of a defined role and even give Reapers more viability as the game progresses. I've heard this suggestion before. And it all boils down to one thing: Marauders. If your problem is how much damage Marauders do, then fix that. Buildings don't need to be changed for the sake of one unit. | ||
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Gunman_csz
United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On September 11 2010 11:07 HubertFelix wrote: The armor should be changed. Marauders drop cannot be stopped by static defense which is kind of crazy for a unit that has such a low gas cost. Seriously, it's like a reaver drop, it's dumb. You are wrong  .Marauder drops are like reavers in damage, but unlike reavers, marauders share the agility of the speedlings, hitpoints of stalkers, + the never ending slow spell... Does anyone else thing marauders should be +5 to armor, and conshell should work similarly to chargelots cooldown. | ||
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ltortoise
633 Posts
On September 11 2010 12:20 Chronopolis wrote: First, stargate units do not have incredibly high hp. If you read my quote a little better you'll realize I was talking about the Phoenix, which does have fantastic hp. It's 150/100 for 180hp. Compare that to a viking, 150/75 for 125hp. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
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Chronopolis
Canada1484 Posts
On September 11 2010 12:25 ltortoise wrote: If you read my quote a little better you'll realize I was talking about the Phoenix, which does have fantastic hp. It's 150/100 for 180hp. Compare that to a viking, 150/75 for 125hp. And when pheonixes rapes all terran units eh? Don't use the traits of two seperate units and roll them together. Based on your previous posts, it seems you are saying: Because terran can mix air and ground units in an effecient manner, why can't protoss? Void rays can't use their strength, which is being charged against armored units, because they A: are difficult to charge B: will be shooting marines C: will be shot by marines (high dps), and get taken out before they can do much damage. Pheonixes, against a mixed bio ball...just don't do anything. Lifting A unit? Not going to work. On September 11 2010 12:28 Cloak wrote: Everyone knows Stimmed Marauders are retarded, but why are Reapers godly at taking out CCs, Hatcheries, and Nexuses too? You leave your base for 10s and you could easily lose your base to one of the fastest units in the game. Yes, but they are very fragile units. In this respect they served a specialized role: making your opponent want to rip his hair out. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
On September 11 2010 12:29 Chronopolis wrote: Yes, but they are very fragile units. In this respect they served a specialized role: making your opponent want to rip his hair out. Imagine if Mutalisks had a 30 damage attack to buildings, everyone would be up in arms about that bullshit. | ||
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sjschmidt93
United States2518 Posts
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