EPTperfect example of a <200 poster ^^;
Map Balance - The Worst of the Worst - Page 7
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
perfect example of a <200 poster ^^; | ||
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comis
United States333 Posts
On June 19 2010 22:08 raph wrote: i agree with kulas, but on DO, terran actually feels much harder if the game goes beyond 2 base. in the 2 base game im generally able to get 2-3 tanks + 12-15 marines and push to my nat, easy as pie. you bunk up and siege behind the bunkers and then just turret your main and leave a few scattered tanks within to help defend on doom drops. i can push and contain on 2 base and fight effectively. but if the game runs long into a 3+ base game for terran, the distances even on the closest blue mineral patch for an immobile meching terran against heavy muta + drops makes it incredibly hard on me to be able to defend my main and 3rd because of the obscure layout and distance You only need 2 bases to max out a mech army. You then A-move into the Zerg base. If he tries to fight you, he loses. If he tries to base trade you, he has a chance but still most likely loses. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On June 20 2010 00:45 Artosis wrote: You need to, in general, expand faster and more often than your opponent as Zerg. Of course there are exceptions to this, but its a real rule for the race with great massing ability but weaker units. I think this is only half of the story. In a game where both the Zerg and P/T are steadily expanding this is the case. But In a game where P/T tries to expand significantly faster than the Z its different, because Z can punish that very hard in the early and early midgame, possibly also later on (but I dont know because I never saw this situation). | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On June 20 2010 01:11 comis wrote: You only need 2 bases to max out a mech army. You then A-move into the Zerg base. If he tries to fight you, he loses. If he tries to base trade you, he has a chance but still most likely loses. What? I really hope you're joking. | ||
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raph
United States204 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25989 Posts
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Actua
Canada101 Posts
On June 20 2010 01:11 comis wrote: You only need 2 bases to max out a mech army. You then A-move into the Zerg base. If he tries to fight you, he loses. If he tries to base trade you, he has a chance but still most likely loses. I take it you still mass hydras vs mech | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On June 20 2010 01:11 comis wrote: You only need 2 bases to max out a mech army. You then A-move into the Zerg base. If he tries to fight you, he loses. If he tries to base trade you, he has a chance but still most likely loses. 1st of all thats not true at all secondly this is RACE BALANCE, not MAP BALANCE. desert is the worst fucking map imaginable to sit on 2base macro and attack and finish zerg. WORST MAP ok? this is what im talking about we cant have this discussion as long as ppl confuse the meanings of this and as long as the mu is t>z on majority of the maps its just a matter of race balance to begin with On June 20 2010 01:12 raph wrote: ive been a starcraft fan for years, i just never made and account and started posting away on the forums. just because i chose not to voice my opinion that makes it less valid? not at all, many here r just frustrated about the different opinions and the post count is such an easy way to judge and say "ur a bad poster". personally i was just kidding when i said it but its amusing to see others who actually believe post count matters | ||
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raph
United States204 Posts
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Merikh
United States918 Posts
On June 20 2010 01:13 Chill wrote: Update: Referencing post count as justification for calling someone stupid will result in a ban in this thread. Should this be for all threads, not just this thread correct? | ||
Liquid`Sheth
United States2095 Posts
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Zhek
Canada342 Posts
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comis
United States333 Posts
On June 20 2010 01:14 MorroW wrote: 1st of all thats not true at all secondly this is RACE BALANCE, not MAP BALANCE. desert is the worst fucking map imaginable to sit on 2base macro and attack and finish zerg. WORST MAP ok? this is what im talking about we cant have this discussion as long as ppl confuse the meanings of this and as long as the mu is t>z on majority of the maps its just a matter of race balance to begin with Zerg has one option against a competent mech T. End the game early with a muta focused build. That's on any map, including DO. If you want to break it into multiple discussing, I don't care, but that's what mech has done to the matchup and that HAS to be considered when discussing balance on ANY map. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
Also, Desert Oasis seems a good map for 1 base fast air against Zerg. I have seen early Phoenix harass on this map (I forget which game, but I think it was in the HDH) and have personally done it (albeit at a much lower level) to great effect. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On June 20 2010 01:23 comis wrote: Zerg has one option against a competent mech T. End the game early with a muta focused build. That's on any map, including DO. If you want to break it into multiple discussing, I don't care, but that's what mech has done to the matchup and that HAS to be considered when discussing balance on ANY map. thats like the worst way ever to play vs mech. how far did u get in ur tournaments lol, dont speak if u dont know anything ur just wasting my time reading mech is like pvt in sc1 without carriers and thats best way i can explain to u. ur goal is to break down the terran and not let him half the map while the meching player can decide to make some mech timing attack or simply turtle and slowly take half the map. thats how u win vs mech terran, not by making mutalisks rofl | ||
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Merikh
United States918 Posts
On June 20 2010 01:27 deth2munkies wrote: Alright, before I go into a tirade, are you just trying to point out the imbalanced maps or are you going for all maps? Also, Desert Oasis seems a good map for 1 base fast air against Zerg. I have seen early Phoenix harass on this map (I forget which game, but I think it was in the HDH) and have personally done it (albeit at a much lower level) to great effect. In his article he said something along the lines of "This is a 3 part discussion, this is part 1 imbalanced maps" which goes on how three of all the 1v1 maps are more than 50% sided towards a certain race. Then he said, he's going to address the more balance maps in a ZvX POV in his next article. | ||
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raph
United States204 Posts
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
1) Incineration Zone 2) Desert Oasis 3) Kulas | ||
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comis
United States333 Posts
On June 20 2010 01:30 MorroW wrote: thats like the worst way ever to play vs mech. how far did u get in ur tournaments lol, dont speak if u dont know anything ur just wasting my time reading mech is like pvt in sc1 without carriers and thats best way i can explain to u. ur goal is to break down the terran and not let him half the map while the meching player can decide to make some mech timing attack or simply turtle and slowly take half the map. thats how u win vs mech terran, not by making mutalisks rofl You're right ZvT is exactly like PvT in BW, wait except the fact that map control has absolutely no importance in a game where NOTHING a Z makes can beat a 200/200 T mech army. The only way to beat mech is to cripple/kill him early with a fast muta/ling/baneling build. Show me 1 example where this is not the case (and don't give me some stupid replay where Z when burrowed roaches into an afk T or something, that's not an actual counter, just cheese that works on bad T's). | ||
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Liquid`Sheth
United States2095 Posts
So what Morrow is saying is that you want to effectively take your 200/200 army, that you got earlier then his, and harass him, try and keep him to two bases, or three bases if you have to and his army below 200. You always want to keep whittling his massive ball of mech down so he doesn't reach this 200/200. And there are ways to stop a 200/200 army if you have 8 bases, and he has 2. And I assure you there are reps of Z's beating T's who have managed to get that 200/200 ball going. Idra's games on LT were a perfect example of what to do vs this mech turtle. (Just using Idra since hes a main idea in this thread) So to end my point, ZvT is exactly like PvT in BW, Something a Z makes can beat a 200/200 T mech army and the only way to beat mech isn't to cripple/kill him early. Hopefully that helped you understand a little bit more about Starcraft. Edited for spacing and a quick reword. | ||
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