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Reaver VS Colossus

Forum Index > Closed
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internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 18:58 GMT
#1
You can guess which way I'm swinging. But I'm curious how many misguided souls actually want to defend the poor Colossus (other than trolls).

[image loading]

Poll: Reaver VS Colossus
(Vote): Iconic SC unit with original gameplay mechanics.
(Vote): Generic Tripod-like laser shooter you could find in any RTS with bad animation.
Assault_1
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1950 Posts
March 02 2010 19:01 GMT
#2
wow, this poll isn't biased as hell
Senx
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Sweden5901 Posts
March 02 2010 19:01 GMT
#3
hahaha what an objective post you got going there!
"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
ROOTFayth
Profile Joined January 2004
Canada3351 Posts
March 02 2010 19:01 GMT
#4
I think it's fine except it should be slowed down
FusionCutter
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada974 Posts
March 02 2010 19:02 GMT
#5
Reaver Micro wouldn't really fit in 'style' of SC2... maybe if it had autobuilding scarabs? And you're kinda biased when you call the reaver "iconic".. many units in SC1 were 'iconic', yet got buffed.
Puosu
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
7012 Posts
March 02 2010 19:03 GMT
#6
Its a boring replacement to a very creative unit that has been considered to be one of the funniest unit of SC ever, I can't think many people can seriously defend colossus here. :/

I believe Blizzard is saving lurker, reaver and vulture for the first expansion, they can't seriously be taking them out just like that knowing they're some of the most liked units ever.
wintergt
Profile Joined February 2010
Belgium1335 Posts
March 02 2010 19:03 GMT
#7
I wish people would get over their nostalgia angst already.
here i am
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 19:04 GMT
#8
Is anyone actually saying the Colossus walking animation (including going up and down cliffs since it's exactly the same) doesn't look bad?
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
March 02 2010 19:04 GMT
#9
Let's just have both and move Immortal to Gateway where it rightly belongs (because it ain't fucking robotic in the first place).
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
March 02 2010 19:04 GMT
#10
On March 03 2010 04:04 internetwarrior wrote:
Is anyone actually saying the Colossus walking animation (including going up and down cliffs since it's exactly the same) doesn't look bad?

It's ok.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 19:05 GMT
#11
And is anyone actually saying you couldn't find a Tripod lookalike shooting lasers in just about ANY future themed RTS? I just fail to see where the Colossus is interesting in any way shape or form. Or how it's a good replacement for the reaver.
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 19:06 GMT
#12
On March 03 2010 04:04 BluzMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2010 04:04 internetwarrior wrote:
Is anyone actually saying the Colossus walking animation (including going up and down cliffs since it's exactly the same) doesn't look bad?

It's ok.


You're being nice. Everytime I see one of those things going up and down cliffs I feel like I'm back to 2d graphics because it looks so wrong.
Icx
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Belgium853 Posts
March 02 2010 19:08 GMT
#13
On March 03 2010 04:04 BluzMan wrote:
Let's just have both and move Immortal to Gateway where it rightly belongs (because it ain't fucking robotic in the first place).


So you honestly think that warping in multiple Immortal's (depending on your gates) in almost no time is a good idea... ?


Anyway, ontopic.

I actually like the colossus, because it's something new and refreshing.
But at the same time I miss the reaver so much.

In the end if I had to choose between the two I would pick the reaver, but I don't think blizzard is ever just gonna patch the colossus out to put the reaver back in, that's just wishfull thinking.
FusionCutter
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada974 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 19:10:40
March 02 2010 19:09 GMT
#14
I'm just speculating, but perhaps the reaver was too 'random' for the SC2 designers tastes. They wanted the game to be 100% skill based, (hence they removed the 50% chance up hitting uphill mechanic). Reavers were fun to watch because they we're tense and you never knew how many SCVs you could blow up. But I think they wanted to remove this element of unpredictability, similar to spider mines, to make the game 100% skill based, rather than something like, say 95%.

Since you are so reaver nostalgic, here you go..

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Niten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States598 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 19:11:39
March 02 2010 19:10 GMT
#15
If reavers and colossus are what you want to talk about; fine, do it, but at least bring more to the thread instead of sc1 nostalgia (or make that explicitly what it's about).

And people who are open to new units are not "misguided souls" anymore than you are blinded by nostalgia.
Korra: "Ok, I know that I'm not good at emotions, but that's what Tenzin's gonna teach me, right? He's gonna teach me to be happy and gentle and spiritual, and the rest of that bullsh**t."
theqat
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States2856 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 19:14:18
March 02 2010 19:13 GMT
#16
On March 03 2010 04:09 Liquid_Turbo wrote:
I'm just speculating, but perhaps the reaver was too 'random' for the SC2 designers tastes. They wanted the game to be 100% skill based, (hence they removed the 50% chance up hitting uphill mechanic). Reavers were fun to watch because they we're tense and you never knew how many SCVs you could blow up. But I think they wanted to remove this element of unpredictability, similar to spider mines.


Another way of thinking about it is that they could easily have programmed Scarabs to hit the thing you targeted 100% of the time in SC2, but that would go against the historic spirit of the Reaver and would result in a balance nightmare--how much damage should a Reaver who can actually hit 100% of the time do? How fast should it move? How much health should it have? In any event it would be a much less exciting unit.

Intentionally making Scarabs buggy might be really difficult (see: the trouble they've had with Muta stacking) and would probably result in a balance nightmare, too. It's better that we've moved on.
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 19:13 GMT
#17
Nostalgia nostalgia nostalgia..
That is your only argument here?
I'm looking for one good reason why we should replace a good unit with generic crap that is in every other RTS, and also happens to walk around like it has a robotic stick up its behind.

In other words, sure replace the Reaver, just find a better excuse to can it than the failure that is the Colossus.
Kaniol
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Poland5551 Posts
March 02 2010 19:16 GMT
#18
Voted collosus, just because it looks cool, it is fun unit (just like reaver), maybe not funnier than reaver but since you put this poll so biased i didn't want cool unit to look stupid.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
March 02 2010 19:16 GMT
#19
Reavers weren't a "common" unit in BW. Colossus get used a lot more often and spice up games. Nostalgia is never an argument for why something should be kept either. Mechanics and gameplay are the only valid arguments.
Polis
Profile Joined January 2005
Poland1292 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 19:21:13
March 02 2010 19:18 GMT
#20
On March 03 2010 04:09 Liquid_Turbo wrote:
I'm just speculating, but perhaps the reaver was too 'random' for the SC2 designers tastes. They wanted the game to be 100% skill based, (hence they removed the 50% chance up hitting uphill mechanic). Reavers were fun to watch because they we're tense and you never knew how many SCVs you could blow up. But I think they wanted to remove this element of unpredictability, similar to spider mines, to make the game 100% skill based, rather than something like, say 95%.


They should remove fog of war then. How many worse players had won becouse of some supper luck in the uphill miss chance? It is a made up problem.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
March 02 2010 19:18 GMT
#21
I don't mind the Colossus, but I wish it didn't look so frail. Beef up the legs a little and make the head simpler and with less antennae.
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 19:20:13
March 02 2010 19:19 GMT
#22
Colossus get used a lot more often because you can A-move and cause a lot of damage with them, yes. Basically any noob can cause hurt with the Colossus, unlike the Reaver. Does that make for good gameplay? Don't think so.

My argument isn't nostalgia. It's that the Colossus is generic laser shooting crap, and that it looks bad when moving (and terrible when going up/down cliffs) to top it off.
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 19:25:28
March 02 2010 19:20 GMT
#23
cmon reaver a robotic worm that shoots out crawling bombs?

+ Show Spoiler +
just kidding , i love them both but i think they should add the reaver and make the colosus slower and take down hp slightly


feels like toss missed this harass unit cause ive never seen harass me out of the 120 games i played

if they added reaver they should probably be forced to give it some 'walking mode' to fit in with the sc2 atmosphere :p
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
jonnyp
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States415 Posts
March 02 2010 19:21 GMT
#24
On March 03 2010 04:03 Puosu wrote:
Its a boring replacement to a very creative unit that has been considered to be one of the funniest unit of SC ever, I can't think many people can seriously defend colossus here. :/

I believe Blizzard is saving lurker, reaver and vulture for the first expansion, they can't seriously be taking them out just like that knowing they're some of the most liked units ever.

And most hated

It's even more sad because the reaver would look awesome in 3d lol
The number of years it takes for the Internet to move past anything is way, way over 9000.
Kurdran
Profile Joined March 2010
36 Posts
March 02 2010 19:21 GMT
#25
Nostalgia is by far the worst argument ever. Yes reavers were cool, but so are colossus and as some1 already said they spice up the game. Get over it.
Undisputed-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States379 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 19:23:16
March 02 2010 19:22 GMT
#26
I really hate the callouses, I don't think it belongs in starcraft. I see it and just think war of the worlds. Protoss has enough walker type units already anyway.

I don't mind having a new unit I just hate the way the model looks and attacks.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
DoomBacon
Profile Joined February 2010
United States165 Posts
March 02 2010 19:23 GMT
#27
I think that the collosi are the coolest new unit for SC2. Additionally with new unit clustering you have to admit that scarbs would be a little op...
/boggle
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 19:25:44
March 02 2010 19:24 GMT
#28
Kurdran, it doesn't seem like you can read english.
I don't care if the Reaver "has to go", I'd just like to see a GOOD reason for it.
The Colossus is a mediocre unit with a mediocre animation.
And again, you can find a laser shooting tripod in so many places nowadays, I don't see why you'd can a scarab-building robotic caterpillar which is unique to the SC universe for that.
wintergt
Profile Joined February 2010
Belgium1335 Posts
March 02 2010 19:26 GMT
#29
On March 03 2010 04:19 internetwarrior wrote:
Colossus get used a lot more often because you can A-move and cause a lot of damage with them, yes. Basically any noob can cause hurt with the Colossus, unlike the Reaver. Does that make for good gameplay? Don't think so.

You are forgetting that any AA can hit them and that because they are so devastating vs ground, they will be the first target to be focussed down so you'll need to protect them with other units, strategically retreat them to keep them alive, etc. Not just A-move and win.

My argument isn't nostalgia. It's that the Colossus is generic laser shooting crap, and that it looks bad when moving (and terrible when going up/down cliffs) to top it off.

It looks pretty cool. One of the better new additions definately.
here i am
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
March 02 2010 19:27 GMT
#30
On March 03 2010 04:08 FictionJV wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2010 04:04 BluzMan wrote:
Let's just have both and move Immortal to Gateway where it rightly belongs (because it ain't fucking robotic in the first place).


So you honestly think that warping in multiple Immortal's (depending on your gates) in almost no time is a good idea... ?


Anyway, ontopic.

I actually like the colossus, because it's something new and refreshing.
But at the same time I miss the reaver so much.

In the end if I had to choose between the two I would pick the reaver, but I don't think blizzard is ever just gonna patch the colossus out to put the reaver back in, that's just wishfull thinking.


I honestly think that Immortal is currently on it's way to complete overhaul being the only toss unit able to hurt armored stuff (c'mon, you need to build it to counter tier 1 roaches). No way it will see any play in release, so yeah, I want that unit to be brought to the state when it can be produced from gates, and I think that is likely to happen.

Reaver is just what protoss is about - shitton of damage and slow. It doesn't fill the role of Colossus and is in it's essence much different.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
Knee_of_Justice
Profile Joined October 2009
United States388 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 19:30:18
March 02 2010 19:28 GMT
#31
Edit: Once thought of putting immortal on GATEWAY (not warpgate) so that 1) no warp in immortal bullshit and 2) gateways actually have a reason for being built (right now, warpgates are just that much better and you get them for next to nothing).

Laser attack needs to go please. The protoss never really used lasers in SC and should not begin to use them in SC2.

But hell, if it HAS to be lasers, at least make them somewhat unique... an explosion or something when the beams come together would at least cover up the lameness that is the laser attack animation.

What is the use of including someone else's great idea in your work if you dont even have the common decency to improve on it in any way?
Protoss Tactical Guide: http://www.sc2armory.com/forums/topic/7903
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3128 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 19:31:00
March 02 2010 19:29 GMT
#32
I loves them both; the cute alien slugling and the giant four-legged alien tripod of mega-death. However, Colossi are definitely better for SC2.

Reavers with good scarab pathfinding, no glitching, and Warp Prisms to transport them would be incredibly, incredibly imbalanced. Colossi's air-weakness, cliff-climbing abilities, and line damage fit much better in the SC2 Protoss force in general.
Also, the Colossus is a giant alien tripod of mega-death; anyone who does not appreciate a giant alien tripod of mega-death is not someone I could ever trust.

And is anyone actually saying you couldn't find a Tripod lookalike shooting lasers in just about ANY future themed RTS?.


Yes, yes I am. Certainly, tripods are a well-known icon of science fiction, but they're that not common in video games, nor do most of them look that much like the Colossus. CnC's tripods, for example, look like this:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Not nearly as awesome as the Colossus:
[image loading]

Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
theqat
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States2856 Posts
March 02 2010 19:31 GMT
#33
The Colossus isn't a tripod . . . it's a quadruped
FusionCutter
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada974 Posts
March 02 2010 19:31 GMT
#34
On March 03 2010 04:18 Polis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2010 04:09 Liquid_Turbo wrote:
I'm just speculating, but perhaps the reaver was too 'random' for the SC2 designers tastes. They wanted the game to be 100% skill based, (hence they removed the 50% chance up hitting uphill mechanic). Reavers were fun to watch because they we're tense and you never knew how many SCVs you could blow up. But I think they wanted to remove this element of unpredictability, similar to spider mines, to make the game 100% skill based, rather than something like, say 95%.


They should remove fog of war then. How many worse players had won becouse of some supper luck in the uphill miss chance? It is a made up problem.


I don't disagree with you.. I'm just going by what the designers have said...
Deleted User 55994
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
949 Posts
March 02 2010 19:31 GMT
#35
I feel that the colossus is simply an easier to use reaver. Same general purpose, but faster, no need to keep it loaded with scarabs, and for harrassment purposes you can just cliff jump so you don't need a shuttle. For someone with shitty mechanics like me, it's nice
Polis
Profile Joined January 2005
Poland1292 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 19:32:29
March 02 2010 19:32 GMT
#36
Reaver was more interesting, powerful unit but very slow, and that needs money to produce scarabs.

Collosus, powerful a-move unit that can walk on cliff. I like that you can shoot it with both anty air, anty ground, but no scrouges makes it less interesting then it could had been.

It is not nostalgia. I like the new Ghost, and Raven seem good.
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 19:33 GMT
#37
Wintergt, are you partially blind? Have you looked at its legs when it moves and when it goes up and down cliffs? If that looks like anything, it's called silly, not cool.

"because they are so devastating vs ground, they will be the first target to be focussed down so you'll need to protect them with other units, strategically retreat them to keep them alive, etc. Not just A-move and win."
You can definitely A-move with Colossi and still cause a lot of damage if anything because they shoot instantly when in range, as opposed to the Reaver's scarab travel time. Also lol about AA. Shuttles?
Tyrannon
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany113 Posts
March 02 2010 19:33 GMT
#38
Searching for Reaver?

I found it! Just play Terran^^

Its called Raven now and shoots Guiding Missiles!!! Well only one thoxD
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3128 Posts
March 02 2010 19:33 GMT
#39
I'm just speculating, but perhaps the reaver was too 'random' for the SC2 designers tastes. They wanted the game to be 100% skill based, (hence they removed the 50% chance up hitting uphill mechanic). Reavers were fun to watch because they we're tense and you never knew how many SCVs you could blow up. But I think they wanted to remove this element of unpredictability, similar to spider mines, to make the game 100% skill based, rather than something like, say 95%.


No, it's the exact opposite. The Reaver in SC1 was so unpredictable because the scarab pathfinding absolutely, completely sucked, and this balanced out its insane splash damage, range, and with-shuttle mobility. A Reaver whose every shot moves smoothly to the target and detonates for full damage is a Reaver which annihilates virtually everything on the ground.
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 19:35 GMT
#40
On March 03 2010 04:29 Captain Peabody wrote:
anyone who does not appreciate a giant alien tripod of mega-death is not someone I could ever trust.


Or simply someone older than 12... :/
DrainX
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Sweden3187 Posts
March 02 2010 19:35 GMT
#41
You still have the Raven. It basically fires a scarab that can hit both ground and air.
starcraft911
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Korea (South)1263 Posts
March 02 2010 19:36 GMT
#42
I like both units, but I prefer reaver.
Emon_
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
3925 Posts
March 02 2010 19:40 GMT
#43
Ribu ribu ribu ribu ribu! <3

I still can't be offensive with him, but 3 reavers + cannons = unlimited dead hydras

As for the SC2 unit - people still play SC2?
"I know that human beings and fish can coexist peacefully" -GWB ||
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3128 Posts
March 02 2010 19:42 GMT
#44
Or simply someone older than 12... :/


So far, you have responded to counter-claims to your argument by (1): asking if someone is partially blind, and (2): implying that everyone who disagrees with you is under 12 years old. Clearly, you are the intelligent, mature person in this discussion.
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
ZlyKiss
Profile Joined April 2006
Poland697 Posts
March 02 2010 19:47 GMT
#45
sorry colossus but you have too low excitment factor for me (compered to unpredictable scarabs)

voting for good ol` catepillar
Quixoticism
Profile Joined February 2010
United States80 Posts
March 02 2010 19:49 GMT
#46
They should just combine the two. Give the Colossus a Scarab like attack. Win/Win.
I was somewhere, thinking something...
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
March 02 2010 19:50 GMT
#47
I find this poll biased towards the Collosus.
I'll call Nada.
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 20:02 GMT
#48
Peabody, I'm not saying anyone who disagrees with me is under 12, only those who reason in terms of loving "giant alien robots of mega death". You seem to be the type that looooves superweapons that Browder is so heavy handedly bringing from C&C into Starcraft... And we all know how much better C&C is compared to SC. But it's ok because you get "giant alien whatevers of mega death". Yeah, that's a level of dorkitude I grew out of before my twenties.

I also called someone partially blind because if you appreciate the walking animation of the colossus, as well as its animation for going up and down cliffs, it is A FACT: you are partially blind.

You're calling me a nostalgic? Remove the Thor also. Not because it's taking something else's place, but just because it looks fugly. Replace with whatever you want, I'm not nostalgic, I just don't like things that look and play like shit.
gragin
Profile Joined March 2010
Singapore1 Post
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 20:13:26
March 02 2010 20:05 GMT
#49
rofl and you call these whom defend the collosus misguided souls and also other then trolls arleady clearly u are biased against the collosus rather than a fair judgement everyone entitle to their opinion u cant call them whatever u like cause they dont agree to whatever u said about the collosus.Everyone had their own taste, doesnt mean that whatever they like doesnt suit your own liking. example if i like the collosus then u are calling me a person under 12 and i am partially blind which i am arleady 20+.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
March 02 2010 20:06 GMT
#50
On March 03 2010 04:06 internetwarrior wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2010 04:04 BluzMan wrote:
On March 03 2010 04:04 internetwarrior wrote:
Is anyone actually saying the Colossus walking animation (including going up and down cliffs since it's exactly the same) doesn't look bad?

It's ok.


You're being nice. Everytime I see one of those things going up and down cliffs I feel like I'm back to 2d graphics because it looks so wrong.


I'm Terran and everytime I see that thing walking up my cliff I shit my pants. -_-
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 20:11:00
March 02 2010 20:10 GMT
#51
"clearly u are biased against the collosus rather than a fair judgement everyone entitle to their opinion u cant call them whatever u like cause they dont agree to whatever u said about the collosus"

Yes the initial statements are biased and I made it pretty obvious that I don't like the Colossus. It's not a secret. I'm not even trying to be fair. Now if someone has actual good arguments for why the Colossus is better than the Reaver, other than the fact that any noob can a-move with it and therefore it is more used, I'm all ears.
bendez
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada283 Posts
March 02 2010 20:14 GMT
#52
Sometimes I think blizzard is purposely leaving out these iconic units (lurkers, reavers) so that they can just add them in the expansion.
Spawkuring
Profile Joined July 2008
United States755 Posts
March 02 2010 20:18 GMT
#53
Ugh, this is a lousy thread. It's just the OP presenting all his opinions as fact, and wanking over nostalgia and tripods. I don't know why internetwarrior is asking for arguments since he's already decided on his opinion.

I mean I like the Reaver better, but I think the Colossus is cool too.
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 20:19 GMT
#54
On March 03 2010 05:14 bendez wrote:
Sometimes I think blizzard is purposely leaving out these iconic units (lurkers, reavers) so that they can just add them in the expansion.


At the very least I don't see a reason to remove them to replace them with units that are much less interesting / original. Such as the Roach or the Colossus.

But hey I guess the community really wants their giant alien robots of mega death. They will get the game they deserve.
Tartantyco
Profile Joined February 2010
Norway17 Posts
March 02 2010 20:22 GMT
#55
This is what I hear:

[image loading]
Thegilaboy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2018 Posts
March 02 2010 20:24 GMT
#56
Wow this is a terrible OP...doubt any argument we give you for the Colossus would be heard on open ears. In either case, I want a new game, and as much as I loved using reavers in SC1, its time we accept this is SC2 and that means new units and abilities. I think the Colossus is a great new unit, it has it uses and it can be a terrible choice in other situations.

But like I said, and others before me, this is a super biased OP, not fit for any real practical discussion at all.
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 20:25 GMT
#57
I'm actually saying the Colossus animation looks terrible, but if you want to interpret that as me wanting to go back to 256 colors, you are free to do that also.
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 20:27 GMT
#58
Gilaboy: do you have any arguments other than "this is new" or the excellent "I like giant alien robots of mega death".

New != better, last I checked.
DefMatrixUltra
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada1992 Posts
March 02 2010 20:29 GMT
#59
@OP

Welcome to TeamLiquid. I can see you are going to last a long time here.

I think the Collossus is a pretty nice unit, actually.
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3128 Posts
March 02 2010 20:29 GMT
#60
Peabody, I'm not saying anyone who disagrees with me is under 12, only those who reason in terms of loving "giant alien robots of mega death". You seem to be the type that looooves superweapons that Browder is so heavy handedly bringing from C&C into Starcraft... And we all know how much better C&C is compared to SC. But it's ok because you get "giant alien whatevers of mega death". Yeah, that's a level of dorkitude I grew out of before my twenties.


It was a joke; that is, a humorous statement meant to liven up a post. It wasn't the bulk of my argument.

Also, liking how a tripod looks does not imply anything at all concerning gameplay-related "superweapons", which the Colossus most definitely is not an example of, and which obviously wouldn't fit in with SC gameplay. The reference to C&C is irrelevant.

Also, please look up the term "ad hominem," and stop using it. That should make this discussion a lot more actual-discussion-like.

Yes the initial statements are biased and I made it pretty obvious that I don't like the Colossus. It's not a secret. I'm not even trying to be fair. Now if someone has actual good arguments for why the Colossus is better than the Reaver, other than the fact that any noob can a-move with it and therefore it is more used, I'm all ears.


Well, I made some in my first two posts in this thread. You can go back and read them if you want.
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
FusionCutter
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada974 Posts
March 02 2010 20:30 GMT
#61
On March 03 2010 05:02 internetwarrior wrote:
I also called someone partially blind because if you appreciate the walking animation of the colossus, as well as its animation for going up and down cliffs, it is A FACT: you are partially blind.

You're calling me a nostalgic? Remove the Thor also. Not because it's taking something else's place, but just because it looks fugly. Replace with whatever you want, I'm not nostalgic, I just don't like things that look and play like shit.


Stop trolling please.
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 20:33 GMT
#62
I actually have been here before, but as you have accurately pointed out I tend to not last long because negativity on just about any subject is more or less strictly forbidden. I guess we're not allowed to dislike new units either? Just hail Blizzard?

Ok then.

Woohoo the Colossus is awesome! It's so original I've never seen that kind of design before, and its walking animation is sooo well done I mean just look at that badass going up a cliff OMG. And it shoots LASERS! A giant alien robot of MEGA DEATH! Wow! Sign me up!
Islandsnake
Profile Joined April 2009
United States679 Posts
March 02 2010 20:38 GMT
#63
I voted option 2 because the OP was already bias lol
Bang!
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3128 Posts
March 02 2010 20:38 GMT
#64
I actually have been here before, but as you have accurately pointed out I tend to not last long because negativity on just about any subject is more or less strictly forbidden. I guess we're not allowed to dislike new units either? Just hail Blizzard?

Ok then.

Woohoo the Colossus is awesome! It's so original I've never seen that kind of design before, and its walking animation is sooo well done I mean just look at that badass going up a cliff OMG. And it shoots LASERS! A giant alien robot of MEGA DEATH! Wow! Sign me up!


All of your posts in this thread have been the literal text equivalent of this:


If you wish to argue a negative point, please actually ARGUE for it. Don't just continue to pat yourself on the back and apply copious ad hominems to everyone who argues against you.
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
Rhinoceros
Profile Joined March 2010
United States7 Posts
March 02 2010 20:39 GMT
#65
You're allowed to dislike new units, but why not offer criticism on how to improve them, instead of whining about how an older unit was better. I'm sure the Blizzard devs have heard this story a thousand times by now and have their reasons for sticking to the new unit.
Rhinoceroses dont wear shirts.
Tiamat
Profile Joined February 2003
United States498 Posts
March 02 2010 20:42 GMT
#66
how does this thread NOT get locked yet I make an exact thread about Thor vs goliaths and it gets locked after 4 posts? Seriously i am curious about this.
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 20:44 GMT
#67
On March 03 2010 05:39 Rhinoceros wrote:
I'm sure the Blizzard devs have heard this story a thousand times by now and have their reasons for sticking to the new unit.


Yeah, Rob Pardo thought that a giant tripod lookalike that shoots lasers would be so much cooler and more original. Also as some other guy mentioned (probably banned by now) it has more potential for merchandising.
Gigaudas
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Sweden1213 Posts
March 02 2010 20:44 GMT
#68
Reavers in shuttles were hard as hell to control, thus I love them. The better players, like stork and bisu, would not have as convincing PvP stats if reavers were replaced with colossus because it would dumb the battles down.

I also miss spider mines, scourge and m'n'm vs. lurkers. So far in SC2 I haven't seen the challenges these created but I'm hoping that it will change as we all learn more about the game.
I
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 20:45 GMT
#69
On March 03 2010 05:42 Tiamat wrote:
how does this thread NOT get locked yet I make an exact thread about Thor vs goliaths and it gets locked after 4 posts? Seriously i am curious about this.


I guess the mods are out?
But yeah Thors are pretty terrible also. Even if I don't particularly like the Goliath that much.
Squallcloud
Profile Joined February 2008
France466 Posts
March 02 2010 20:46 GMT
#70
They already kept many unit from Sc1. If they continue it would only be Sc1 in 3d. I like change.
Firebathero fanboy - It's not that i'm dumb i'm just controlled by a retarded infestor - Day[9]
peidongyang
Profile Joined January 2009
Canada2084 Posts
March 02 2010 20:46 GMT
#71
Stop complaining that they got rid of the reaver.

You guys haven't seen what you could do with the WC3 game engine eh? In WC3, you can mod the crap out of any model and create your own abilities (ie, own mechanics, animations, and how the ability is casted). This is shown really well in DotA since almost all the the spells were self-made and all the characters have slight changes.

Since this is Starcraft II, it should be even easier to design new units, and IMO, Blizzard's BETA version of Starcraft is purely for making the game balanced. And trust me, that's probably the most important part of non-UMS Starcraft since blizzard wants people playing really long until they get off their asses and make another breakthrough game. Most of the old unit models will probably be available in the Campaign editor, and possibly, Blizzard will let us design entirely new Character models in SC2.
the throws never bothered me anyway
O_OBlue
Profile Joined March 2010
United States7 Posts
March 02 2010 20:46 GMT
#72
With Reavers, there will be no infantries for Terrans. Wouldn't you agree?
Go Anteaters :)
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 20:46 GMT
#73
On March 03 2010 05:44 Gigaudas wrote:
Reavers in shuttles were hard as hell to control, thus I love them. The better players, like stork and bisu, would not have as convincing PvP stats if reavers were replaced with colossus because it would dumb the battles down.


I haven't said that myself because I thought it was self-evident.
Reavers to Colossi dumbs the game down.

If you like/defend it, your loss.
Zhou
Profile Joined February 2009
United States832 Posts
March 02 2010 20:48 GMT
#74
That video kinda creeps me out.
But I don't mind the colossus. Nor would I say its a replacement for the reaver. Sure, the reaver isn't in the game, but just cause they added a new unit doesn't mean it replaces another in that sense.

As for the mechanics of the colossus, I don't mind that its a tripod either. It may not be that original as some other units, but it plays its role the way blizzard had wanted it to, more of less. SC2 isn't like SC, so it seems like the reaver probably wouldn't work the way it would if it were implemented in SC2. But who knows, I don't have a beta key. >:

Going to have to just trust Blizzard and tripods. :D
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 20:50 GMT
#75
On March 03 2010 05:46 Squallcloud wrote:
I like change.


I like change when it's to replace with something better, not change for change's sake.
You could replace all the units in the game if you'd like, it would be a lot of change. Would be it better? Doubtful.
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3128 Posts
March 02 2010 20:51 GMT
#76
I haven't said that myself because I thought it was self-evident.
Reavers to Colossi dumbs the game down.

If you like/defend it, your loss.


Okay. So everyone who disagrees with you concerning Colossi and Reavers is just wrong. This nicely eliminates the need for a discussion thread on the topic.

Goodbye, thread. I won't miss you.
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
dangots0ul
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States919 Posts
March 02 2010 20:53 GMT
#77
i am very surprised by the results of this poll
i type teamliquid into the url subconsciously... all...the...time...
onewingedmoogle
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada434 Posts
March 02 2010 20:54 GMT
#78
the colossus just doesnt have that "glass cannon" effect to it. most every unit in sc2 is an evenly balanced unit in terms of durability to damaging power. basically the more damage a unit does the more durable it is and the more expensive it is.

reaver did insane damage but with drawbacks, the need for scarabs and its slow speed.(and dumb ai but it prolly wasnt designed that way). made battles more interesting cuz there was actually something to target to kill that could change the momentum of the whole game.
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 20:55 GMT
#79
On March 03 2010 05:51 Captain Peabody wrote:
Show nested quote +
I haven't said that myself because I thought it was self-evident.
Reavers to Colossi dumbs the game down.

If you like/defend it, your loss.


Okay. So everyone who disagrees with you concerning Colossi and Reavers is just wrong. This nicely eliminates the need for a discussion thread on the topic.

Goodbye, thread. I won't miss you.


Your only semi-serious argument, Peabody, is that Reavers in the SC2 engine that "never misses" would be incredibly unbalanced. Wow! I wonder if that could be tweaked by maybe reducing the damage per scarab down to an acceptable level?

Give me a break, there is nothing serious to defend the colossus other than "it's new". Which is what I'd call piss poor an argument.
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 20:56 GMT
#80
On March 03 2010 05:54 onewingedmoogle wrote:
the colossus just doesnt have that "glass cannon" effect to it. most every unit in sc2 is an evenly balanced unit in terms of durability to damaging power. basically the more damage a unit does the more durable it is and the more expensive it is.

reaver did insane damage but with drawbacks, the need for scarabs and its slow speed.(and dumb ai but it prolly wasnt designed that way). made battles more interesting cuz there was actually something to target to kill that could change the momentum of the whole game.


Thanks for pointing out another obvious aspect of it that seems to elude most of these GIANT ROBOT OF DEATH advocates.
wintergt
Profile Joined February 2010
Belgium1335 Posts
March 02 2010 21:09 GMT
#81
On March 03 2010 05:55 internetwarrior wrote:
Your only semi-serious argument, Peabody, is that Reavers in the SC2 engine that "never misses" would be incredibly unbalanced. Wow! I wonder if that could be tweaked by maybe reducing the damage per scarab down to an acceptable level?

Give me a break, there is nothing serious to defend the colossus other than "it's new". Which is what I'd call piss poor an argument.

You are so dense it is unbelievable. Lock this thread already plz.
here i am
madsweepslol
Profile Joined February 2010
161 Posts
March 02 2010 21:11 GMT
#82
On March 03 2010 05:38 Islandsnake wrote:
I voted option 2 because the OP was already bias lol

same
Thegilaboy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2018 Posts
March 02 2010 21:12 GMT
#83
On March 03 2010 05:27 internetwarrior wrote:
Gilaboy: do you have any arguments other than "this is new" or the excellent "I like giant alien robots of mega death".

New != better, last I checked.


Man dude, you are just looking to pick a fight aren't you?

Never said I like giant alien robots or whatever, but what I do like is effective change. I enjoy the Colossus because I think its ability to scale cliffs, and overall impact against light ground units sways the way my opponent will approach how they both defend themselves and attack me. On top of that, the fact that it can be hit by air-to-air units means that I must be mindful of exactly what I bring out with it. I think this has caused me to make sure I'm bringing out properly mixed armies, because I hate to see my resources get wasted when a Colossus gets taken down by Vikings.

Also, how are you having such a hard time with the giant robot thing man? Seriously, everything in Starcraft and all other Sci-Fi games/movies/books take from one another that its just not worth getting worked up about. The only reason I think your OP is terrible is because here at TL we strive to have effective and meaningful discussion, and that requires effort from both the initiator of the conversation, and those that engage with them. So please, just put forth a little more effort in the OP next time and I think you'll find you get both a lot more respect, and useful debate.
psychopat
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada417 Posts
March 02 2010 21:12 GMT
#84
Reading this thread is almost as bad as reading youtube comments...
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 21:13 GMT
#85
You really voted 2 because like most carebears around here you are unable to handle a negative opinion on anything. So you voted 2. Good job kids.
wintergt
Profile Joined February 2010
Belgium1335 Posts
March 02 2010 21:17 GMT
#86
Don't worry I am sure someone will release a mod that will make the colossus look like a reaver and the lasers like scarabs, it will make all the internet warriors happy.
here i am
RAZROK
Profile Joined March 2010
Latvia49 Posts
March 02 2010 21:17 GMT
#87
On March 03 2010 05:50 internetwarrior wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2010 05:46 Squallcloud wrote:
I like change.


I like change when it's to replace with something better, not change for change's sake.
You could replace all the units in the game if you'd like, it would be a lot of change. Would be it better? Doubtful.


Quote all he said. He had a reason for what he said.
You will not win because I will not lose!
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3128 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 21:27:24
March 02 2010 21:18 GMT
#88
Your only semi-serious argument, Peabody, is that Reavers in the SC2 engine that "never misses" would be incredibly unbalanced. Wow! I wonder if that could be tweaked by maybe reducing the damage per scarab down to an acceptable level?

Give me a break, there is nothing serious to defend the colossus other than "it's new". Which is what I'd call piss poor an argument.


Well, no matter how you balanced it, the SC2 Reaver would still do massive amounts of damage in a way that is not inherently that "interesting"; i.e. once you add in great pathfinding and consequently make it so the Reaver pretty much always hits the units it fires at within a certain range, then the incredible excitement of scarabs (will it land, will it land?) in SC1 goes away pretty quickly. The only way to keep this excitement would be to make the scarabs much slower (a la HK missile on the Raven), so that running units away from the scarabs would be an actually viable form of micro in a world where Scarabs don't randomly glitch out on units, walls, and mineral patches.
Also, a damage reduction would almost definitely be necessary, either in addition to or in place of the slower scarabs.

However, if you reduce the Reaver's damage too much, or make its projectiles too slow, you risk making it practically useless; the fact that it is one of only two units in the game to have build to its ammo using minerals, is incredibly slow, and requires another unit to be useful are all huge drawbacks against it, balanced out in SC1 by its incredible damage. If you reduce this too much, you're looking at a mostly-unused unit.

Also, with the fast speed of SC2, a T2 unit that is that slow and really only useful once you've built another unit and paired it with it another unit would be an even bigger liability in SC2 than in SC1. SC2 moves much faster than SC1, especially early-to-midgame; getting out a Reaver/Warp Prism in time to fight the units its supposed to counter would be much more difficult.

Also, being almost totally immobile without another unit to make it mobile is much less of a liability in SC1 (where most units are fairly immobile anyway) than in SC2, where almost all viable units are fast and extremely mobile.

The Colossus is also an interesting unit, what with its linear splash damage, cliff-walking abilities (both allowing for various types of positioning micro), and susceptibility to anti-air; but it simply fits better into SC2 than the Reaver would. This is no slight.
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
March 02 2010 21:18 GMT
#89
How can they have the same score looool
The reaver is like 100x better.
One of the best old units vs one of the worst new units >.<
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 21:22:31
March 02 2010 21:21 GMT
#90
There needs to be a 3rd option: a unit that's in the spirit of the reaver, but *isn't* the reaver.
On March 03 2010 05:55 internetwarrior wrote:
Your only semi-serious argument, Peabody, is that Reavers in the SC2 engine that "never misses" would be incredibly unbalanced. Wow! I wonder if that could be tweaked by maybe reducing the damage per scarab down to an acceptable level?

Give me a break, there is nothing serious to defend the colossus other than "it's new". Which is what I'd call piss poor an argument.

Toning down scarab damage would be a stupid compromise. What made the Reaver interesting was it's high risk-high reward nature. A Reaver that always hits but can't 1-shot a giant clump of workers just isn't nearly as exciting.
Moderator
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3128 Posts
March 02 2010 21:21 GMT
#91
You really voted 2 because like most carebears around here you are unable to handle a negative opinion on anything. So you voted 2. Good job kids.


You obviously have not looked up "ad hominem" yet.

But, please, don't let me stop you from getting banned. You're doing such a wonderful job of it...
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
madsweepslol
Profile Joined February 2010
161 Posts
March 02 2010 21:21 GMT
#92
On March 03 2010 06:13 internetwarrior wrote:
You really voted 2 because like most carebears around here you are unable to handle a negative opinion on anything. So you voted 2. Good job kids.

If he had simply said he didn't like the colossus that would have been that, but he didn't, he insulted people who may like the colossus.
internetwarrior
Profile Joined February 2010
32 Posts
March 02 2010 21:23 GMT
#93
effective change.

I enjoy the Colossus because I think its ability to scale cliffs

I hear the shuttles had a really hard time getting over cliffs.


and overall impact against light ground units sways the way my opponent will approach how they both defend themselves and attack me.

A big change/improvement over reavers which were really ineffective against light ground units.


On top of that, the fact that it can be hit by air-to-air units means that I must be mindful of exactly what I bring out with it.

Much unlike shuttles who were completely immune to AA.


put forth a little more effort in the OP next time and I think you'll find you get both a lot more respect, and useful debate.

Honestly I don't see the useful debate happening with people who can't even admit that unlike the Reaver, the Colossus is a very unoriginal unit design wise, and that while it retains some characteristics of the Reaver (AOE damage, same tier/building reqs, expensive) it is also much less of a glass cannon and therefore much less interesting or tension-inducing than the colossus. The few intelligent people on this thread have explained it very well actually, and it seems the others just want something new no matter how better or worse it is.

Personally I'm not excited about SC2 just because it's SC2 and there are OMGNEW units, I'm hoping it can come close to the first in terms of quality of gameplay and originality. Which doesn't seem to be a concern with units like the Colossus being both less interesting and original.
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3128 Posts
March 02 2010 21:25 GMT
#94
Honestly I don't see the useful debate happening with people who can't even admit that unlike the Reaver, the Colossus is a very unoriginal unit design wise, and that while it retains some characteristics of the Reaver (AOE damage, same tier/building reqs, expensive) it is also much less of a glass cannon and therefore much less interesting or tension-inducing than the colossus. The few intelligent people on this thread have explained it very well actually, and it seems the others just want something new no matter how better or worse it is.


So you can't see a useful debate happening with people who disagree with you.
Wonderful.

Also, please read my post above.
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
Thegilaboy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2018 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 21:27:16
March 02 2010 21:26 GMT
#95
Alright I'm done with you, you're being rude now...Mods can we get a lock on this?
789
Profile Joined October 2009
United States959 Posts
March 02 2010 21:28 GMT
#96
I like the reaver myself, but arguing (if you can call what you're doing arguing) that anyone who likes the colossus is wrong/partially blind/etc is just plain juvenile. It's ok to not like it, but eventually you'll have to realize it is just your opinion. You don't like the model or its animation? I don't think it is anything particularily spectacular, but I like it. It fits in well with the other walkers the protoss use.

I personally like the unit gameplay wise. The cliff walking can be interesting for micro in battles if a nearby cliff is available to exploit. While the colossus isn't anywhere near as vunerable as the reaver (you pay for its durability in resources ... it is much more expensive than a reaver) you still have to pay attention to positioning and protecting it. There are a lot of units that can pick it off relatively quickly (like vikings) and while not as slow as a reaver, they are still slow enough to be vulnerable. Positioning is also important to optimize its damage. Basically ... I think it is an interesting gameplay unit, not just an "a walk for the noobs" unit. They can be used that way, but you can make them MUCH more effective through good control ... I dunno kinda like ... a reaver.

It's fine if you don't like it, but stop acting like a child and pretending your opinions are facts. It isn't having a negative view on something that's gotten you banned; it is the trollish manner you present your "arguments."

PS ... The colossus has 4 legs not 3. A lot of the concept artwork has 3 ... but the model has four. You may want to work on your counting.
Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk Cafe! He's the next Jaedong, baby!
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
March 02 2010 21:31 GMT
#97
I REALLY REALLY would want to like the Collosus, it looked so FREAKEN COOL! But I HAVE to agree that Reavers takes more skills to control. It feels SOO good when one of the Scarab hits this clumps of units and then you go "Yes I have this game in the bag!". And I think if Reavers were to exist in StarCraft 2, the Scarab can be a little slower or make it targetable by units so it takes more skills to actually use some attack to kill the Scarab before it reaches target.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
madsweepslol
Profile Joined February 2010
161 Posts
March 02 2010 21:32 GMT
#98
well said, 789
Thegilaboy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2018 Posts
March 02 2010 21:33 GMT
#99
On March 03 2010 06:32 madsweepslol wrote:
well said, 789


Agreed, 789 nailed it
ZerglingShepherd
Profile Joined January 2009
Canada99 Posts
March 02 2010 21:37 GMT
#100
I miss many of the old units too. The lurker, the reaver, defiler, medic, arbiter, vulture, firebat, etc. But come on, it's a new game! Let's give some of these new units a chance and see how they will play out. Maybe they'll turn out to be retarded and won't work out, and maybe it will turn out that they can be used in many creative ways we haven't yet anticipated.

The colossus is not without merit. As other partially-blind. clearly 12-year old people have already pointed out, the colossus' ability to walk cliffs, do line damage (hey, that's more original than AoE explosions!), and susceptibility to air attack all contribute to creating a balance of strength and weakness that can lead to interesting tactical situations.
Kiarip
Profile Joined August 2008
United States1835 Posts
March 02 2010 21:51 GMT
#101
On March 03 2010 06:23 internetwarrior wrote:
Show nested quote +
effective change.

Show nested quote +
I enjoy the Colossus because I think its ability to scale cliffs

I hear the shuttles had a really hard time getting over cliffs.


Because shuttles just come automatically once you get a reaver right?
And because Colossi can travel over literally anything like shuttles can right?


Show nested quote +
and overall impact against light ground units sways the way my opponent will approach how they both defend themselves and attack me.

A big change/improvement over reavers which were really ineffective against light ground units.


Reavers were really effective against high armored units too like ultras. Colossi aren't all that good against ultras, and tanks etc.


Show nested quote +
On top of that, the fact that it can be hit by air-to-air units means that I must be mindful of exactly what I bring out with it.

Much unlike shuttles who were completely immune to AA.

Because shuttles just come automatically when you build a reaver right?
Or because a reaver can shoot while it's in a shuttle.
Or because a reaver can totally get attacked by AA when it's outside the shuttle also right?


The colossus, isn't just a "less original more noob friendly" version of the reaver. It's a completely different unit which has some interesting mechanics.
Tom Phoenix
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
1114 Posts
March 02 2010 22:48 GMT
#102
Before I say anything else, I would like to say that the Trilobyte (alpha name for Reaver) was one of my most favourite units in StarCraft and it is hard for me to see it being removed in StarCraft II.

Having said that, I personally really like the Colossus and not beacuse it is a new unit. Like the Reaver, it has a lot of personality and charm for a robotic unit. It twitches and twists it`s head in a really cute manner and responds with very unique sounds. Ultimately, I think that the Reaver's contradicting nature of being an almost adorable-looking weapon of destruction was one of the traits that made it so unique and the Colossus fits this perfectly.

Also, while the Colossus does not have the same high-risk high-reward nature of the Reaver, it`s ability to travel across cliffs is a very unique gameplay trait that has interesting gameplay implications and which can be used for a variety of tasks (such as scouting and harassment). It also makes the Colossus a lot more useful on it`s own compared to the Reaver.

Overall, the Colossus stands out (quite literally ) both in terms of it`s design as well as gameplay. So while I will miss the Reaver, I still think the Colossus is a great addition to StarCraft II and a nice homage to one of the founding fathers of the science-fiction genre.
You and your "5 years of competitive RTS experience" can take a hike. - FrozenArbiter
Rucky
Profile Joined February 2008
United States717 Posts
March 02 2010 23:09 GMT
#103
New game, new unit. stop looking at everything as replacements..
Beyond the Game
nimbim
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany985 Posts
March 03 2010 00:00 GMT
#104
I like the Colossus. I like to know what my unit does when i order it to attack. I like the fact that you can do awesome and horrible micro with a Colossus (skill req!). I like the design - what is everyone's problem with that? Because it doesn't immediately remind you of a BW unit? I haven't seen anything like the Colossus in any game.
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
March 03 2010 00:04 GMT
#105
Reavers! There's just something cute about them :3
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
March 03 2010 00:10 GMT
#106
Remember that Reaver from the TL baking contest? That looked delicious. Have to vote to the Reaver. If anyone can bake something that looks like a Collosus I'd happily change my vote - if I could.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
Gedrah
Profile Joined February 2010
465 Posts
March 03 2010 00:39 GMT
#107
OP is sad because the Colossus is reminiscent of some of the NOD walker units in C&C3, I'm betting. Instead of a worm that shoots out a beetle-shaped grenade. Let the nostalgia go imo.
What is a dickfour?
Meta
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States6225 Posts
March 03 2010 00:41 GMT
#108
I'd rather have them both and do away with immortals

In sc2 reavers would be OP because of the new scarab AI they'd have to implement.. maybe.
good vibes only
Sad[Panda]
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States458 Posts
March 03 2010 01:46 GMT
#109
On March 03 2010 06:13 internetwarrior wrote:
You really voted 2 because like most carebears around here you are unable to handle a negative opinion on anything. So you voted 2. Good job kids.


Almost every post ive seen you do is picking at someones character or what you infer is their personal intellect instead of beating around the bush and telling people that they are wrong or trying to just down the robo tripod science fiction icon, its quite obnoxious. How about you give us some REAL reasoning other than nostalgia and an obvious biased i want original sc again opinion SC2 is a different game and imo the reaver really doesn't fit well with what ive seen as in the gameflow the reaver has always been slow but can inflict heavy damage, but in SC2 it seems as battles are very quick and decisive due to the heavy hardcounters in the game and something as slow moving and slow firing as a reaver in my opinion doesn't fit so well with the battle style I couldn't imagine a reaver firing very many shots. Not saying the reaver couldn't be tweaked to fire faster for less damage but thats essentially messing with the reaver lore and would be a weird change.
( O.O) ("\(t.t )/") ~ I'm just looking for someone to hug
MeruFM
Profile Joined February 2010
United States167 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-03 02:07:51
March 03 2010 02:01 GMT
#110
A person called "Internet Warrior" voices an opinion and asks for opinions. But vehemently talks down anyone who disagrees with him.
Should people really be addressing this guy seriously?
[image loading]


I do like reaver more than colossus. It was a high risk high reward system which made those moments exciting. It still seems okay though, I remember watching the game where Yellow was doing similar harass.
ShaperofDreams
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2492 Posts
March 03 2010 02:23 GMT
#111
the Colossus owns the reaver so hard. If only it's attack was like the reavers'... but that would be silly.
Bitches don't know about my overlord. FUCK OFF ALDARIS I HAVE ENOUGH PYLONS. My Balls are as smooth as Eggs.
O_OBlue
Profile Joined March 2010
United States7 Posts
March 03 2010 18:55 GMT
#112
Saying Colossus replaces Reaver is like saying Banelings replace Lurkers.
Go Anteaters :)
kickinhead
Profile Joined December 2008
Switzerland2069 Posts
March 03 2010 19:47 GMT
#113
not only does the collo suck - it also "replaced" one of the coolest units from s1 with which awesome micro would be possible even with the new engine!
https://soundcloud.com/thesamplethief
Tiamat
Profile Joined February 2003
United States498 Posts
March 03 2010 20:32 GMT
#114
Again someone please tell me why this post has not been locked but mine was?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113524

I seriously want to know.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
March 03 2010 20:34 GMT
#115
On March 04 2010 05:32 Tiamat wrote:
Again someone please tell me why this post has not been locked but mine was?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113524

I seriously want to know.


there is a thread for asking those kinds of questions... use the search bar
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
Thegilaboy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2018 Posts
March 03 2010 20:35 GMT
#116
On March 04 2010 05:32 Tiamat wrote:
Again someone please tell me why this post has not been locked but mine was?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113524

I seriously want to know.


Well the guy got banned, so I'd say that's probably worse off than the thread being closed, but yeah this thread should be locked
Sayorain
Profile Joined September 2011
5 Posts
September 15 2011 03:04 GMT
#117
I'm sorry to bump this, but I tried bringing up a "debate" on reddit regarding to colossi vs reaver.

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/kg0wk/am_i_the_only_one_that_likes_colossi_over_reavers/

Aside from the trolls and haters with up/downvotes, I pretty much firmly believe that reavers were honestly just not suited/adapted to starcraft 2's gameplay mechanics.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45541 Posts
September 15 2011 03:06 GMT
#118
I assume this is another recently-reopened-by-a-mod-because-it's-hilarious thread?

lol at OP Everyone should click the Colossus option on the poll just to make it look even funnier...
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
September 15 2011 03:07 GMT
#119
On September 15 2011 12:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I assume this is another recently-reopened-by-a-mod-because-it's-hilarious thread?

lol at OP Everyone should click the Colossus option on the poll just to make it look even funnier...


I already did ^__^
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
September 15 2011 03:09 GMT
#120
Colossi is best !!!
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
Delay559
Profile Joined January 2011
France89 Posts
September 15 2011 03:12 GMT
#121
On September 15 2011 12:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I assume this is another recently-reopened-by-a-mod-because-it's-hilarious thread?

lol at OP Everyone should click the Colossus option on the poll just to make it look even funnier...


+1
Join erepublik! :D http://www.erepublik.com/en/referrer/RonanSC
Sayorain
Profile Joined September 2011
5 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 03:14:30
September 15 2011 03:13 GMT
#122
On September 15 2011 12:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I assume this is another recently-reopened-by-a-mod-because-it's-hilarious thread?

lol at OP Everyone should click the Colossus option on the poll just to make it look even funnier...


I wasn't aware this was locked previously, since I was searching for a topic that was regarding about Reavers vs Colossi mechanics in SC2. And.. because of morons in reddit. Please forgive me if i'm bring the wrong intentions to this thread.

This is basically my whole response with full seriousness why I just find colossi a lot more versatile
+ Show Spoiler +

However, there are a lot of things that colossi introduced in protoss technology that reavers honestly cannot replicate. Mainly, the colossi is able to directly attack armies regardless of height that a reaver cannot do without exposing it immediate death.
Since Starcraft 2's new introduction with improved elevated terrain gameplay (such as reaper harass, proxy pylon, blink stalker, aerial vision adavantage especially with terran), Colossi play honestly makes it more useful for various types of strategy. While indeed Starcraft 2 isn't the type of game for unique strategies and relies more on timing, the changes and variability of the maps honestly cannot make reavers feasible.
Going back to my statement with height differences, a low ground colossi can attack high ground units, and can attack units in areas where low ground cannot move up or attack without drops nor aerial vision. A reaver simply cannot do that.

Theoretically it would definitely be the same thing. However, a reaver simply cannot have the same versatility as a colossi, simply because it is a lot more well-defended than using a reaver + shuttle combo. In addition, the base issue still lies on the reavers capability in being able to inflict the same amount of DPS as would a colossi. Forgive me if I don't know much to SCBW, but a lot of attacks and retreating now focuses on being mobile and agile, mainly via kiting with range units, or stalling time.

As far as I know, Colossi are able to kite, retreat to high ground, and safely inflict more damage without harm (only if there is no aerial vision). Along with sentries, a colossi can either safely snipe behind blocked attackers and buy more time, or during PvP, a colossi can break a FF and continue the pursuit with the rest of the army and possibly end the game.

With reavers (we will assume that the reavers are not massive still), a lot of time is spent on dropping a reaver and picking up a reaver while attacking. Because SC2 focuses almost entirely on timing, a lot of time is potentially wasted due to such micro. And due to the examples I mentioned with a colossi, a reaver simply cannot perform the same actions as a colossi would. Although the DPS is highly debatable, a reaver attacks about the same speed as a siege tank, and it also requires the scarab to take additional time to travel and explode on the said target. Since shuttle + reaver is how it makes it versatile, would it not be the same for the opponents to do the same with units similar to reavers, such as a medivac picking up exposed units like seige tanks?

And we even haven't factored in other SC2 mechanics as well, such as immortals and potentially scarabs being shot down with PDDs.
Herculix
Profile Joined May 2010
United States946 Posts
September 15 2011 03:14 GMT
#123
On September 15 2011 12:04 Sayorain wrote:
I'm sorry to bump this, but I tried bringing up a "debate" on reddit regarding to colossi vs reaver.

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/kg0wk/am_i_the_only_one_that_likes_colossi_over_reavers/

Aside from the trolls and haters with up/downvotes, I pretty much firmly believe that reavers were honestly just not suited/adapted to starcraft 2's gameplay mechanics.


your argument is pointless because they would improve the ai. it would in the end probably reduce some of the flair of the reaver but its core design would be the same and that design is significantly more interesting to me than the colossi

and yes, i voted colossi even though reaver is superior because this is a troll thread
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3128 Posts
September 15 2011 03:14 GMT
#124
Ohhhhh, this thread. I...remember you...too well.

Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
Sayorain
Profile Joined September 2011
5 Posts
September 15 2011 03:17 GMT
#125
On September 15 2011 12:14 Herculix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2011 12:04 Sayorain wrote:
I'm sorry to bump this, but I tried bringing up a "debate" on reddit regarding to colossi vs reaver.

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/kg0wk/am_i_the_only_one_that_likes_colossi_over_reavers/

Aside from the trolls and haters with up/downvotes, I pretty much firmly believe that reavers were honestly just not suited/adapted to starcraft 2's gameplay mechanics.


your argument is pointless because they would improve the ai. it would in the end probably reduce some of the flair of the reaver but its core design would be the same and that design is significantly more interesting to me than the colossi

and yes, i voted colossi even though reaver is superior because this is a troll thread


But what about AI though? Even if the scarab was a lot "smarter," it still suffers from said issues such as not reaching the target at all due to unit clumping and choke points (and there are definitely a lot of choke points in SC2 where Reavers simply cannot attack well enough).

As for aesthetics, I really can't say much input but semi-agree.
R0YAL
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States1768 Posts
September 15 2011 03:23 GMT
#126
Anything is better than the Colossus (other than the skill fungal growth.. whos idea was it to eliminate micro?) that promotes zero strategy and zero mechanical advantages.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
September 15 2011 03:24 GMT
#127
Dumb bump.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
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