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I've been lurking the TL forums for a while but would like to contribute as I've been following MLG on and off for a few years.
First off: This article is complete garbage. Thank god at the end they have a message from MLG clarifying this. Final Boss (formerly StK, I believe) had been the most dominant team in the league for something like 5 years. When Halo 3 rolled around they began to slip in their performance. By the players' own admittance there were huge problems with the team chemistry and Walshy was basically kicked out by his own teammates. It was kind of a messy ordeal and Walshy has since had a vendetta against Final Boss (who have still been performing poorly even after multiple team changes). This had nothing to do with MLG.
On March 01 2010 01:05 Jazriel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 00:24 Signus wrote:On February 28 2010 23:53 Jazriel wrote:
MLG is a horrible company, people are only now realizing that?
Don't even get me started on their ridiculous rule-sets for the games they play. I wouldn't be surprised if they ban cheeses or rush strats or something equally lame if they decide to take on SC2. What do you mean ridiculous rule-sets? The rules for Halo 3 are only because Bungie messed up on the game a bit and they limit the weapons to the ones that are actually used at a competitive level. I can't think of any other games where they tinker with things, so I doubt Starcraft 2 will have anything like that. The Halo 2 rules were garbage. It's been so long I barely remember but they banned the sword? They had some really retarded variants only snipers on colossus? Oh and what was it, starting weapon was SMG? On coag? LOL Halo 3 I don't know anything about 'cause that game is garbage and watching "MLG Pro's" play make me cringe at wasted shots and poor play. Way too many bugs/exploits/glitches/problems to take that game seriously. I am aware though that MLG has been getting better, but the company is still pretty pathetic from my point of view (as uneducated and outdated as it is).
Wow dude. Just stop talking.
Again to clear the air:
MLG is pretty much the sole reason that Halo 3 currently has any competitive community at all. Ever since the pistol was removed in Halo 2 the game has been rather unbalanced. Bungie's default set-up was SMG start (No, MLG never had SMG start on Coag you fucking idiot) which then extended to AR start in Halo 3. This created an imbalance as spawning with a crap weapon left you completely open and defenseless at spawn and if you couldn't find a Battle Rifle before someone found you: it was lights out. I'm not gonna get into the details of this but basically MLG worked to create a gametype where most imbalances were fixed. BR start was put in, power weapons (rockets, sniper) were removed/moved to more appropriate locations, and power-ups were given the same treatment. With the Forge map-creator they have also continued to create maps from scratch to be used within the league. Because of the work MLG did with these "MLG maps" Bungie put in an official MLG Playlist into their matchmaking which catered specifically to the competitive crowd. Honestly, without this playlist Halo 3 would not have been nearly as successful and literally no pros would ever touch the Halo 3 matchmaking/ladder.
In regards to the MLG tournaments themselves: they are pretty sweet. The stage and entire setup is pretty legit and professional, the sponsors are plentiful, the prize pools are big (25k-100k per team), the commentary is knowledgeable and interesting (and pretty dorky), and major tournaments happen regularly. One complaint I do have is the way that videos are uploaded onto their site: its just incredibly counter intuitive and difficult to browse for matches that you want to watch. Given how professional the rest of the site is, you would think this kinda stuff would be given more attention. The VODs are okay but the tourney shoutcasts are just arranged in a very stupid way.
Although I don't think MLG is perfect, its pretty fucking clear that they care about competitive gaming. They took a game that had the potential to be a successful e-sport and then tweaked it enough for it to become that success. Whether you like Halo 3 or not, its hard to deny the positive impact that MLG has had on competitive gaming in the US. And with Halo Reach on the way I can see SC2 becoming their flagship PC title as the new Halo will reclaim its position on the console side of things. There's no promises as to how this will work out, but I think that given how MLG has helped competitive Halo there's no reason to believe that they would mess up SC2. We'll just have to wait and see.
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take your time guys....its week 1 of beta, there's no rush. youtube is slow and laggy right now anyway.
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So much nerd sweat. anyway, at least we have the USA vs Canada match to watch 2 hours to pass some time.
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I completely agree with OverShield. I have followed/been involved with the MLG Halo community since 2004-5 and it has grown by leaps and bounds since then. In a recent interview they said they now get about 500k unique views on their streams over the course of a tournament weekend. That is an IMPRESSIVE feat for an eSport. They have major sponsors: ESPN, Old Spice, Dr Pepper, BIC, Doritos, etc. I recently attended the finals in Orlando, FL and the events are very well run and professional.
MLG would probably be the best vehicle to give SC2 a viable pro scene. They already have a merry band of nerds waiting to watch hours of coverage and a big pool of money to offer up. I don't think that something like teamliquid will ever be replaced because it is THE place for starfcraft, but MLG is bringing eSports to the mainstream. Hopefully if this move happens the key people already in the SC community will take a lead role so it can be as successful as possible.
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On March 01 2010 02:53 baeracaed wrote:
So much nerd sweat. anyway, at least we have the USA vs Canada match to watch 2 hours to pass some time.
I really, really, hope you're joking. You can't think of anything that starts an hour earlier that you might also watch?
--oberon
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The problem is American players want to watch shooting games and want to play shooting games. They are quite frankly easier to understand and easier to play.
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On March 01 2010 03:20 oberon wrote:
I really, really, hope you're joking. You can't think of anything that starts an hour earlier that you might also watch?
--oberon
Nope.
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On March 01 2010 03:11 [p]Drake wrote:
I completely agree with OverShield. I have followed/been involved with the MLG Halo community since 2004-5 and it has grown by leaps and bounds since then. In a recent interview they said they now get about 500k unique views on their streams over the course of a tournament weekend. That is an IMPRESSIVE feat for an eSport. They have major sponsors: ESPN, Old Spice, Dr Pepper, BIC, Doritos, etc. I recently attended the finals in Orlando, FL and the events are very well run and professional.
MLG would probably be the best vehicle to give SC2 a viable pro scene. They already have a merry band of nerds waiting to watch hours of coverage and a big pool of money to offer up. I don't think that something like teamliquid will ever be replaced because it is THE place for starfcraft, but MLG is bringing eSports to the mainstream. Hopefully if this move happens the key people already in the SC community will take a lead role so it can be as successful as possible.
Isn't MLG pretty much an exclusive deal for the teams, forbidding them to play for other organizations? I can't see many prominent SC2 players (from BW and Wc3) signing that.
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On March 01 2010 03:20 oberon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 02:53 baeracaed wrote:
So much nerd sweat. anyway, at least we have the USA vs Canada match to watch 2 hours to pass some time. I really, really, hope you're joking. You can't think of anything that starts an hour earlier that you might also watch? --oberon
Well the hockey match is going to be going way past TSL. I wouldn't miss it for the world man.
Edit: hmm maybe not.. Well I can't miss TSL final, you're right.
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On March 01 2010 03:31 baeracaed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 03:20 oberon wrote:On March 01 2010 02:53 baeracaed wrote:
So much nerd sweat. anyway, at least we have the USA vs Canada match to watch 2 hours to pass some time. I really, really, hope you're joking. You can't think of anything that starts an hour earlier that you might also watch? --oberon Well the hockey match is going to be going way past TSL. I wouldn't miss it for the world man. Edit: hmm maybe not.. Well I can't miss TSL final, you're right.
Yeah that and who cares about hockey? 
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Canada8035 Posts
On March 01 2010 03:29 Mannerheim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 03:11 [p]Drake wrote:
I completely agree with OverShield. I have followed/been involved with the MLG Halo community since 2004-5 and it has grown by leaps and bounds since then. In a recent interview they said they now get about 500k unique views on their streams over the course of a tournament weekend. That is an IMPRESSIVE feat for an eSport. They have major sponsors: ESPN, Old Spice, Dr Pepper, BIC, Doritos, etc. I recently attended the finals in Orlando, FL and the events are very well run and professional.
MLG would probably be the best vehicle to give SC2 a viable pro scene. They already have a merry band of nerds waiting to watch hours of coverage and a big pool of money to offer up. I don't think that something like teamliquid will ever be replaced because it is THE place for starfcraft, but MLG is bringing eSports to the mainstream. Hopefully if this move happens the key people already in the SC community will take a lead role so it can be as successful as possible. Isn't MLG pretty much an exclusive deal for the teams, forbidding them to play for other organizations? I can't see many prominent SC2 players (from BW and Wc3) signing that.
Remember the Kespa/GomTV/Blizzard drama? It's practically the same thing. IIRC, the broadcasting dispute resulted in July not going to Blizzcon or something. In addition, Kespa refused to sanction the GomTV league, so the teams, in a show of support, decided not to participate.
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What was the point of letting MLG take control of the game in the first place.. was anyone getting paid?
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On March 01 2010 03:29 Mannerheim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 03:11 [p]Drake wrote:
I completely agree with OverShield. I have followed/been involved with the MLG Halo community since 2004-5 and it has grown by leaps and bounds since then. In a recent interview they said they now get about 500k unique views on their streams over the course of a tournament weekend. That is an IMPRESSIVE feat for an eSport. They have major sponsors: ESPN, Old Spice, Dr Pepper, BIC, Doritos, etc. I recently attended the finals in Orlando, FL and the events are very well run and professional.
MLG would probably be the best vehicle to give SC2 a viable pro scene. They already have a merry band of nerds waiting to watch hours of coverage and a big pool of money to offer up. I don't think that something like teamliquid will ever be replaced because it is THE place for starfcraft, but MLG is bringing eSports to the mainstream. Hopefully if this move happens the key people already in the SC community will take a lead role so it can be as successful as possible. Isn't MLG pretty much an exclusive deal for the teams, forbidding them to play for other organizations? I can't see many prominent SC2 players (from BW and Wc3) signing that.
You don't think they would sign a contract for what MLG pays out? Because they pay A LOT. NO reason people wouldn't sign with them.
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On March 01 2010 03:35 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 03:31 baeracaed wrote:On March 01 2010 03:20 oberon wrote:On March 01 2010 02:53 baeracaed wrote:
So much nerd sweat. anyway, at least we have the USA vs Canada match to watch 2 hours to pass some time. I really, really, hope you're joking. You can't think of anything that starts an hour earlier that you might also watch? --oberon Well the hockey match is going to be going way past TSL. I wouldn't miss it for the world man. Edit: hmm maybe not.. Well I can't miss TSL final, you're right. Yeah that and who cares about hockey?
qft
Who cares about an international tournament that only awards the winner a gold medal worth about $500USD when there is another international tournament with a $10,000 award!!!
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On March 01 2010 03:45 Bosu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 03:29 Mannerheim wrote:On March 01 2010 03:11 [p]Drake wrote:
I completely agree with OverShield. I have followed/been involved with the MLG Halo community since 2004-5 and it has grown by leaps and bounds since then. In a recent interview they said they now get about 500k unique views on their streams over the course of a tournament weekend. That is an IMPRESSIVE feat for an eSport. They have major sponsors: ESPN, Old Spice, Dr Pepper, BIC, Doritos, etc. I recently attended the finals in Orlando, FL and the events are very well run and professional.
MLG would probably be the best vehicle to give SC2 a viable pro scene. They already have a merry band of nerds waiting to watch hours of coverage and a big pool of money to offer up. I don't think that something like teamliquid will ever be replaced because it is THE place for starfcraft, but MLG is bringing eSports to the mainstream. Hopefully if this move happens the key people already in the SC community will take a lead role so it can be as successful as possible. Isn't MLG pretty much an exclusive deal for the teams, forbidding them to play for other organizations? I can't see many prominent SC2 players (from BW and Wc3) signing that. You don't think they would sign a contract for what MLG pays out? Because they pay A LOT. NO reason people wouldn't sign with them.
It could be good for the people getting in but overall it would be terrible for the growth of SC2 esports if we're limited to only one source for leagues, a source that does not even have any experience in StarCraft.
I really can't see MLG even trying to do such harsh monopoly as they did in Halo 3 though, I think the only reason they really could do so in Halo 3 was because there was no really any competition for them so it came naturally and they just played it safe and made their players only play for them.
And I don't want to come off as an anti-mlg person, I really would like them to be a huge part of SC2's success but I'm just hoping they don't become another KeSPA nazi.
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On March 01 2010 03:23 _rdm_ wrote:
The problem is American players want to watch shooting games and want to play shooting games. They are quite frankly easier to understand and easier to play.
I wouldn't say this. There are a ton of RTS players in America. They are just spread out over Age/CnC/SC, now with SCII I think they'll all be brought together. The SCII community is going to be HUGE. Easily enough for a viable NA e-Sport. Also MLG runs tournaments in Canada, so it truly is NA.
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On March 01 2010 03:49 Puosu wrote:
It could be good for the people getting in but overall it would be terrible for the growth of SC2 esports if we're limited to only one source for leagues, a source that does not even have any experience in StarCraft.
I really can't see MLG even trying to do such harsh monopoly as they did in Halo 3 though, I think the only reason they really could do so in Halo 3 was because there was no really any competition for them so it came naturally and they just played it safe and made their players only play for them.
And I don't want to come off as an anti-mlg person, I really would like them to be a huge part of SC2's success but I'm just hoping they don't become another KeSPA nazi.
Even if MLG signed every well known BW player in US, if it was exclusive and isolated from international competition I wouldn't give two shits about their leagues/events.
I'm not anti-MLG either if they become just another SC2 organizer. But if they want to mimic KeSPA and dictate where and when their players can play, fuck them.
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On March 01 2010 03:56 Mannerheim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 03:49 Puosu wrote:
It could be good for the people getting in but overall it would be terrible for the growth of SC2 esports if we're limited to only one source for leagues, a source that does not even have any experience in StarCraft.
I really can't see MLG even trying to do such harsh monopoly as they did in Halo 3 though, I think the only reason they really could do so in Halo 3 was because there was no really any competition for them so it came naturally and they just played it safe and made their players only play for them.
And I don't want to come off as an anti-mlg person, I really would like them to be a huge part of SC2's success but I'm just hoping they don't become another KeSPA nazi. Even if MLG signed every well known BW player in US, if it was exclusive and isolated from international competition I wouldn't give two shits about their leagues/events. I'm not anti-MLG either if they become just another SC2 organizer. But if they want to mimic KeSPA and dictate where and when their players can play, fuck them.
MLG is North American. Holding worldwide tournaments is cost prohibitive. They also broadcast all their stuff online so its not like only NA can watch. If the community wants it bad enough I'm sure some type of "World Championship" could be setup between ESL, MLG, and Kespa...Maybe not Kespa..., but definitely ESL and MLG or whatever EU company steps up.
I don't think we should be so picky when it comes to viable e-Sports, as it's not exactly..."mainstream". We take what we can get :p
Also, the top Halo players make more than the top SC players...so take that as you will :p
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Any word on when those vods will be up?
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On March 01 2010 03:56 Mannerheim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 03:49 Puosu wrote:
It could be good for the people getting in but overall it would be terrible for the growth of SC2 esports if we're limited to only one source for leagues, a source that does not even have any experience in StarCraft.
I really can't see MLG even trying to do such harsh monopoly as they did in Halo 3 though, I think the only reason they really could do so in Halo 3 was because there was no really any competition for them so it came naturally and they just played it safe and made their players only play for them.
And I don't want to come off as an anti-mlg person, I really would like them to be a huge part of SC2's success but I'm just hoping they don't become another KeSPA nazi. Even if MLG signed every well known BW player in US, if it was exclusive and isolated from international competition I wouldn't give two shits about their leagues/events. I'm not anti-MLG either if they become just another SC2 organizer. But if they want to mimic KeSPA and dictate where and when their players can play, fuck them.
yes I support MLG if they do good tournaments/etc. But if it becomes some sort of monopoly, nazi contract (even worse than Kespa), or this whole "you have the name we want, team name we want, no personal sponsors" then fuck that. I don't want 1 show in town with control over a group of gamers. Because ultimately it exists to promote ITSELF and not the game/players.
We all know what happens when a monopolizing organization sees a new tournament/org (see how Kespa/SKT1 etc sought to undermine gomtv and keep pro gamers from playing in it?) They have their own interests way above that of expanding the sport/players/etc.
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EPT
