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VabuDeltaKaiser
Germany1107 Posts
stating, pretty much income tax is illegal, irs is a private organisation, such as federal reserve is private, basically maybe the whole money system beeing in private hands. I search for: -a proove of the law that justify income taxes -irs beeing law ruled, based and voted company below congress -federal reserve beeing law ruled and voted below congress that docu is pretty good so you better watch this before you respond. | ||
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Megalisk
United States6095 Posts
The constitution declares that the federal government has the power to levy and dollect taxes..I don't know where people get this crap from.. | ||
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xmShake
United States1100 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On February 05 2010 11:31 xmShake wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=73867 Just go read this =_= | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6638 Posts
On February 02 2010 10:23 Mystlord wrote: No idea who the hell is propogating this myth. Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution Oh hey look! It also says collect. | ||
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Saturnize
United States2473 Posts
On February 05 2010 11:32 Two_DoWn wrote: If you want a government to protect you, that government is going to need money. No income tax means a higher sales tax, or other forms of taxation. Sure it sucks, but it's a price we must pay. No one asks for the governments protection don't be silly. | ||
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VabuDeltaKaiser
Germany1107 Posts
maybe you happen to stick to the topic and else BE SILENT! | ||
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
The IRS is not private. What would give you that notion? It is a government agency. I'm not sure what a German has invested in this issue in the United States though. I know you're a German in Germany too. Spelling. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On February 05 2010 11:36 Saturnize wrote: No one asks for the governments protection don't be silly. Psh we don't need that protection then we can all be just like china and sell knock offs of everything. The IRS is a subsection of the treasury you know the ppl that make money! which if you don't know somehow gave out all that money back when for the econ issue hum if the treasury is part of the government and the irs is part of that then ahh k i get it...you're pulling shit outta your asses | ||
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Conquest101
United States1395 Posts
Basically this: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=4679 I know the article is old as shit, but so is this documentary. However,in the end, it doesn't even matter. Cause of this: On June 23 2008 02:20 Hawk wrote: I DONT WANNA PAY INCOME TAX, BUT I SURE LIKE USING ALL THESE PUBLIC ROADWAYS, SEWER SYSTEM, WATER, SCHOOL SYSTEMS, ETC. This is up there with the 9/11 bullshit. | ||
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liosama
Australia843 Posts
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VabuDeltaKaiser
Germany1107 Posts
On February 05 2010 11:39 thopol wrote: Thrice damned internet libertarians... The IRS is not private. What would give you that notion? It is a government agency. I'm not sure what a German has invested in this issue in the United States though. I know you're a German in Germany too. Spelling. watch the documentation and tell me its not private AGAIN. with proving the arguments given IN the documentation wrong. gogogo should not be that hard for a real american... thank you, would appreciate your help as a foreigner. | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6638 Posts
On February 05 2010 11:43 VabuDeltaKaiser wrote: watch the documentation and tell me its not private AGAIN. with proving the arguments given IN the documentation wrong. gogogo should not be that hard for a real american... thank you, would appreciate your help as a foreigner. "The IRS is the US government agency responsible for tax collection and tax law enforcement." Google it, first line. | ||
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
On February 05 2010 11:38 VabuDeltaKaiser wrote: this is serious, i as a foreigner didnt get any answers so far. so i am just curious if there will be some, since your links are no answeres they are polemiks. maybe you happen to stick to the topic and else BE SILENT! Really? The dude just cited the US Constitution. Also, I'm willing to forgive the grammar and spelling errors of people who are not from English speaking countries, but if you want to have a discussion you need to be understood. I don't understand you. | ||
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PlatypusOfPain
United States6 Posts
Taxation is one of the explicitly granted powers in the US constitution, and anyone who doesn't know this and is an American is a moron. The IRS is designated by the congress to collect taxes, which is again one of it's constitutionally mandated duties. The Federal Reserve was created by congress in the Federal Reserve Act. If you really were curious, you could just have read wikipedia. This post was a complete waste of time. | ||
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Conquest101
United States1395 Posts
You could argue about the validity of the 16th Amendment, but I think that's a crock of shit anyway. And as has been mentioned before, so what? What's the alternative? | ||
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On February 05 2010 11:38 VabuDeltaKaiser wrote: this is serious, i as a foreigner didnt get any answers so far. so i am just curious if there will be some, since your links are no answeres they are polemics. maybe you happen to stick to the topic and else BE SILENT! Maybe you should actually read the constitution yourself. | ||
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Conquest101
United States1395 Posts
On February 05 2010 11:48 thopol wrote: Oh christ... We are so easily trolled. No. Don't do this. There ARE trolls on the internet to be sure. But mostly it's just stupidity or ignorance. Don't give everyone the benefit of the doubt and assume they are pulling off an epic troll. | ||
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VabuDeltaKaiser
Germany1107 Posts
:D i want the law, no official statement, no community message, no site that pretents to be anything that is not law based. i want the law. point. come with that and im fine. thank you. | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6638 Posts
Bam. | ||
KwarK
United States43189 Posts
On February 05 2010 11:47 Conquest101 wrote: And as has been mentioned before, so what? What's the alternative? Everyone else paying taxes but you not paying taxes seems to be the general idea of people who like this. Maybe it does work but the people who did it are onto a good thing and don't want the word getting out. If someone went to court with that defence and won it'd be in the interests of everyone involved to get out of taxes personally but act like it never happened. If too many people did it the Gov would patch the loophole. :p | ||
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Conquest101
United States1395 Posts
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html AMENDMENT XVI Passed by Congress July 2, 1909. Ratified February 3, 1913. Note: Article I, section 9, of the Constitution was modified by amendment 16. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration. On February 05 2010 11:53 KwarK wrote: Everyone else paying taxes but you not paying taxes seems to be the general idea of people who like this. Maybe it does work but the people who did it are onto a good thing and don't want the word getting out. If someone went to court with that defence and won it'd be in the interests of everyone involved to get out of taxes personally but act like it never happened. If too many people did it the Gov would patch the loophole. :p Shhhhhh. Man, don't give it away. I might have to start paying taxes again, if that happens. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On February 05 2010 11:51 VabuDeltaKaiser wrote: so finally will there ever be anyone who can link or quote the law that forces us citicens to pay income tax or still not ? :D i want the law, no official statement, no community message, no site that pretents to be anything that is not law based. i want the law. point. come with that and im fine. thank you. Since you're not actually read any of the posts above yours for some godforsaken reason, here's an image of the original document of the 16th amendment that clearly states that congress has the right to lay and collect taxes on income. http://www.footnote.com/image/4346755/ | ||
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Conquest101
United States1395 Posts
On February 05 2010 11:58 koreasilver wrote: Since you're not actually read any of the posts above yours for some godforsaken reason, here's an image of the original document of the 16th amendment that clearly states that congress has the right to lay and collect taxes on income. http://www.footnote.com/image/4346755/ I don't know man. That's not an actual document. Just an image. That could be doctored. I think we should go steal the original copy and FedEx it to this guy. | ||
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ShadowDrgn
United States2497 Posts
On February 05 2010 11:51 VabuDeltaKaiser wrote: so finally will there ever be anyone who can link or quote the law that forces us citicens to pay income tax or still not ? :D i want the law, no official statement, no community message, no site that pretents to be anything that is not law based. i want the law. point. come with that and im fine. thank you. 26 U.S.C. § 1 http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/usc_sec_26_00000001----000-.html "There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of ... a tax determined in accordance with the following table:" blah blah blah. Happy now? /lawyer | ||
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neVern
United States115 Posts
http://www.piercingtheillusion.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18&Itemid=13 A lot more formal and it sites it's sources well. | ||
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neVern
United States115 Posts
On February 05 2010 12:02 ShadowDrgn wrote: 26 U.S.C. § 1 http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/usc_sec_26_00000001----000-.html "There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of ... a tax determined in accordance with the following table:" blah blah blah. Happy now? /lawyer What income is taxable? And are people being forced to pay taxes that are based on voluntary compliance? Do people living in the 50 states with a citizenship actually have to pay an income tax? If you live in the 50 states, you do not have to pay it and your income is NOT taxable. So that source really means nothing. Certain foreign incomes are taxable, however. | ||
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neVern
United States115 Posts
On February 05 2010 11:53 Conquest101 wrote: See this guy is stupid. Not a troll. http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html AMENDMENT XVI Passed by Congress July 2, 1909. Ratified February 3, 1913. Note: Article I, section 9, of the Constitution was modified by amendment 16. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration. Shhhhhh. Man, don't give it away. I might have to start paying taxes again, if that happens. Did you know Supreme Court cases ruled that the Sixteenth Amendment gives the US Government no new power of taxation? There were already laws that the government can tax certain FOREIGN incomes, but they still do not have the right to tax citizen's incomes in the 50 states. The 16th amendment is useless, and provided nothing new. This is why the Constitutional Party wants to abolish the 16th Amendment with the Liberty Amendment. | ||
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
On February 05 2010 12:10 neVern wrote: What income is taxable? And are people being forced to pay taxes that are based on voluntary compliance? Do people living in the 50 states with a citizenship actually have to pay an income tax? If you live in the 50 states, you do not have to pay it and your income is NOT taxable. So that source really means nothing. Certain foreign incomes are taxable, however. What the fuck are you talking about? The US code means nothing in a discussion about taxation? I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. You ask a couple of questions and come to a conclusion that you make appear as though you reached it through logical means. You aren't making a logical argument though. You aren't making an argument at all. You have some questions, an assertion which is not really true, and somehow now we suddenly don't think the US code doesn't mean anything. What? EDIT: I don't mean to be excessively condescending, but edit your posts instead of stringing them together. I don't want to be interpreted as flaming you. You have just confused me to no end. | ||
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Conquest101
United States1395 Posts
I think this quote from a case tried by the Fifth Circuit Court sums the refutation up nicely. "We perceive no need to refute these arguments with somber reasoning and copious citation of precedent; to do so might suggest that these arguments have some colorable merit. The constitutionality of our income tax system—including the role played within that system by the Internal Revenue Service and the Tax Court—has long been established... [Petitioner's argument] is a hodgepodge of unsupported assertions, irrelevant platitudes, and legalistic gibberish." The Supreme Court, and indeed, courts at every level of the Judicial system have constantly and consistently ruled in favor of the legality of the US income tax system. I could start listing them... but see above quote please. | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6638 Posts
On February 05 2010 12:14 neVern wrote: Did you know Supreme Court cases ruled that the Sixteenth Amendment gives the US Government no new power of taxation? There were already laws that the government can tax certain FOREIGN incomes, but they still do not have the right to tax citizen's incomes in the 50 states. The 16th amendment is useless, and provided nothing new. This is why the Constitutional Party wants to abolish the 16th Amendment with the Liberty Amendment. Two questions:What are you smoking and where can I get some of it? http://www.irs.gov/taxpros/article/0,,id=159932,00.html you HAVE to pay taxes, somehow I don't think the government would be dumb enough to omit that from their laws. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On February 05 2010 11:31 Megalisk wrote: Didn't someone post something like this recently, then got shot down by every poster?? The constitution declares that the federal government has the power to levy and dollect taxes..I don't know where people get this crap from.. | ||
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
I have an uncle who thinks taxation is stealing. I think that these people don't talk politics with people who don't think the same thing that they do. They end up thinking the little expressions they use and the 'government is bad, XYZ must be bad because the state has mandated it,' mentality is reasonable political expression. | ||
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ShadowDrgn
United States2497 Posts
It's in section 63. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/usc_sec_26_00000063----000-.html Except as provided in subsection (b), for purposes of this subtitle, the term “taxable income” means gross income minus the deductions allowed by this chapter (other than the standard deduction). Just knock off the conspiracy theory stuff. As much as I hate taxes and would love to not pay them, the federal government really can force you to pay up. | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14899 Posts
good god people >< | ||
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neVern
United States115 Posts
On February 05 2010 12:32 ShadowDrgn wrote: It's in section 63. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/usc_sec_26_00000063----000-.html Except as provided in subsection (b), for purposes of this subtitle, the term “taxable income” means gross income minus the deductions allowed by this chapter (other than the standard deduction). Just knock off the conspiracy theory stuff. As much as I hate taxes and would love to not pay them, the federal government really can force you to pay up. That doesn't mean anything. And in no way is that conclusive. In Subtitle A, there is no reason to conclude that a majority of US incomes are taxable. When the IRS describes which incomes they CAN tax, they say nothing about taxing citizens in the 50 states without voluntary compliance. Also, that definition is different than the legal definition, which makes you even more insulting. | ||
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EmeraldSparks
United States1451 Posts
On February 05 2010 12:38 neVern wrote: That doesn't mean anything. And in no way is that conclusive. In Subtitle A, there is no reason to conclude that a majority of US incomes are taxable. When the IRS describes which incomes they CAN tax, they say nothing about taxing citizens in the 50 states without voluntary compliance. Also, that definition is different than the legal definition, which makes you even more insulting. Basically you want to assume that whenever the law talks about income, it actually means "foreign income" and doesn't explicitly say so because somebody somewhere is retarded. Guess what, it doesn't work that way. When the Sixteenth Amendment says "we can tax income" you can't just up and say "you didn't say you could tax domestic income." They can tax any income of anyone in the United States unless it explicitly says otherwise. It's insulting because your position is unimaginably dumb. Of course it's the legal definition; it's in the fucking US Code. That's as legal as it gets. Your position is basically akin to saying that a state that says it can put murderers in prison doesn't say it can put Asian murderers in prison, so they have no constitutional basis for imprisoning me if I commit murder. It's stupid. | ||
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
On February 05 2010 12:38 neVern wrote: When the IRS describes which incomes they CAN tax, they say nothing about taxing citizens in the 50 states without voluntary compliance. I still don't quite understand what you are talking about. Your pseudo-legal mode of English may seem intellectual and knowledgeable to your friends, but it seems to me like you're obfuscating your stupidity with syllables. That said, I think I comprehend something that is at the root of your problem. You seem to imply here that you think that if federal and state law are at odds there is some kind of impasse. This is not the case. Federal law has precedent. Of course, you could be talking about something else entirely. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
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ejac
United States1195 Posts
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On February 05 2010 12:14 neVern wrote: Did you know Supreme Court cases ruled that the Sixteenth Amendment gives the US Government no new power of taxation? There were already laws that the government can tax certain FOREIGN incomes, but they still do not have the right to tax citizen's incomes in the 50 states. The 16th amendment is useless, and provided nothing new. This is why the Constitutional Party wants to abolish the 16th Amendment with the Liberty Amendment. You are mistaken. It is true that the Sixteenth Amendment granted Congress no new powers. However, Congress always had the power to tax incomes. Being a direct tax, however, it had to be apportioned among the states. That was impractical. What the Sixteenth Amendment did was to remove the apportioning requirement. | ||
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SonuvBob
Aiur21549 Posts
On February 05 2010 11:31 xmShake wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=73867 | ||
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