On August 14 2009 20:48 pr0t0ss wrote: LJD play is beautifull it's like a classic music, like a symphony
he deserved everyone of his wins
what can fantasy do? some bunker cheese? MSL mean much less than OSL after all this OSL became Jaedong's coronation for the bownja, best of the best of the best al times, etc. title
I just do NOT understand how people can be SO BIASED to one side or the other! I really cant! Jaedong failed in Proleague Grand Finals, Fantasy failed in OSL Semi Finals, who the fuck are YOU to judge who is better?
u need to calm down. simiple fact is that, for whatever reason, OSL championships are worth the most for an individual player. Winning a few games in Proleague is commendable but doesn't hold the same clout as an OSL championship
actually thats more our perspective than theirs. proleague grand final is the single most important event to every progamer
thats the most overgeneralizing assumption I have ever read. You cant even speak korean but certainly you know what is most important to every progamer...
i've been following this stuff for a long time man, i definitely know the situation on this subject
On August 14 2009 20:48 pr0t0ss wrote: LJD play is beautifull it's like a classic music, like a symphony
he deserved everyone of his wins
what can fantasy do? some bunker cheese? MSL mean much less than OSL after all this OSL became Jaedong's coronation for the bownja, best of the best of the best al times, etc. title
I just do NOT understand how people can be SO BIASED to one side or the other! I really cant! Jaedong failed in Proleague Grand Finals, Fantasy failed in OSL Semi Finals, who the fuck are YOU to judge who is better?
u need to calm down. simiple fact is that, for whatever reason, OSL championships are worth the most for an individual player. Winning a few games in Proleague is commendable but doesn't hold the same clout as an OSL championship
actually thats more our perspective than theirs. proleague grand final is the single most important event to every progamer
thats the most overgeneralizing assumption I have ever read. You cant even speak korean but certainly you know what is most important to every progamer...
i've been following this stuff for a long time man, i definitely know the situation on this subject
Steeeeeeve, you're in such a good mood. I hate it. I totally wanted to see you reem this guy out.
On August 14 2009 20:56 Uligor wrote: I, admittedly a Fantasy fan, must disagree with the comparison between Fantasy's cheese and Jaedong's cheese. Fantasy's cheese was not just a simple BBS, it was a smart fake wall-in strategy that was new and innovative. Jaedong's 4 pool on the other hand was not innovative at all, though to his credit he did display cleverness by hiding the additional lings.
The statement "You liked Fantasy's cheese so therefore you cannot dislike Jaedong's cheese" is therefore in my opinion inaccurate because they were different on a strategic level. The statement is also a double-edged sword because a good portion of the Jaedong fans now cheering for Jaedong's cheese loathed Fantasy's cheese.
While I understand that the whole "cheese hate" is simply an excuse to bash another player, I still think I should point that this statement is shallow.
I agree that Fantasy's build on Medusa in the Proleague Final was far beyond just cheese. On the other hand you just have to realize that Zerg simply CANNOT do that many things, it's not like you can hide your pool or anything for example.
Exactly. Zerg has very limited build orders, compared to Terran and Protoss. Also it is close to impossible for Zerg's to block scouting scv's or probes, so cheesy 1 or 2 hatch builds are not worth it as the opponent can see it coming. Also Zerg is a reactionary race, the game flow is generally dominated by T and P.
So therefore you cannot expect Zerg's to use flashy unique builds. Creativity comes from their mid-late game management.
don't you think thought that part of it is just lip service (player's expressing their high regard for proleague) as Proleague gives huge amounts of exposure to sponsored-team gaming thereby increasing the $$$ players can get in terms of salary?
On August 14 2009 20:48 pr0t0ss wrote: LJD play is beautifull it's like a classic music, like a symphony
he deserved everyone of his wins
what can fantasy do? some bunker cheese? MSL mean much less than OSL after all this OSL became Jaedong's coronation for the bownja, best of the best of the best al times, etc. title
I just do NOT understand how people can be SO BIASED to one side or the other! I really cant! Jaedong failed in Proleague Grand Finals, Fantasy failed in OSL Semi Finals, who the fuck are YOU to judge who is better?
u need to calm down. simiple fact is that, for whatever reason, OSL championships are worth the most for an individual player. Winning a few games in Proleague is commendable but doesn't hold the same clout as an OSL championship
actually thats more our perspective than theirs. proleague grand final is the single most important event to every progamer
thats the most overgeneralizing assumption I have ever read. You cant even speak korean but certainly you know what is most important to every progamer...
i've been following this stuff for a long time man, i definitely know the situation on this subject
Steeeeeeve, you're in such a good mood. I hate it. I totally wanted to see you reem this guy out.
well i mean it's kinda funny that he quotes a red name that reads 'fakesteve[tpr]' and claims i don't know what's up, but all i'd really say is 'go do the research yourself, learn some history' etc. its not like its worth freaking out over hahahah
power rank comments have forced me to mellow out or i'd just ban everyone who looks at me funny
On August 14 2009 20:56 Uligor wrote: I, admittedly a Fantasy fan, must disagree with the comparison between Fantasy's cheese and Jaedong's cheese. Fantasy's cheese was not just a simple BBS, it was a smart fake wall-in strategy that was new and innovative. Jaedong's 4 pool on the other hand was not innovative at all, though to his credit he did display cleverness by hiding the additional lings.
The statement "You liked Fantasy's cheese so therefore you cannot dislike Jaedong's cheese" is therefore in my opinion inaccurate because they were different on a strategic level. The statement is also a double-edged sword because a good portion of the Jaedong fans now cheering for Jaedong's cheese loathed Fantasy's cheese.
While I understand that the whole "cheese hate" is simply an excuse to bash another player, I still think I should point that this statement is shallow.
what do you expect from zerg? proxy spawning pool?
On August 14 2009 20:48 pr0t0ss wrote: LJD play is beautifull it's like a classic music, like a symphony
he deserved everyone of his wins
what can fantasy do? some bunker cheese? MSL mean much less than OSL after all this OSL became Jaedong's coronation for the bownja, best of the best of the best al times, etc. title
I just do NOT understand how people can be SO BIASED to one side or the other! I really cant! Jaedong failed in Proleague Grand Finals, Fantasy failed in OSL Semi Finals, who the fuck are YOU to judge who is better?
u need to calm down. simiple fact is that, for whatever reason, OSL championships are worth the most for an individual player. Winning a few games in Proleague is commendable but doesn't hold the same clout as an OSL championship
actually thats more our perspective than theirs. proleague grand final is the single most important event to every progamer
thats the most overgeneralizing assumption I have ever read. You cant even speak korean but certainly you know what is most important to every progamer...
Interviews? Daniel Lee?
So what? Cus we all know that celebrities always speak nothing but the truth in interviews... And Daniel Lee certainly has a deep connection to every progamer on the scene, to know what their true motivations and desires are... In reality peoples motivations and desires differ and it will be no different for progamers. For some, winning the Proleague will be the most important, for others it will be an OSL title which they dream of.
On August 14 2009 20:47 G.s)NarutO wrote: Why don't people understand that this was a pure build order win in the last game? FantaSy took the risk that he can't defend vs a Zerg that is 9pooling with that wall and Jaedong went 9 pool speed so FantaSy lost. Its not a choke - he just took a risk and it didnt pay off.
it wasn't a good risk to take because it didn't have any potential benefit. why wall off against fast lings if the wall also fails against fast lings
yep thats very true. he'd have been better off with a 10rax and sorta lock-and-key building placement with a bunker. there should have been some sort of backup plan for his build, which is exceedingly effective at every position but the one he spawned at. choosing to continue the path regardless was a very poor choice
also, what happened to his first marine again? if i remember correctly he had enough time to lift the barracks and bring the marine to the other side of the wall, didn't he? he would have been fine then, but i don't remember how the timing exactly worked out. that was just ugly
the one marine wouldn't have made a difference, fantasy would have lost those two vultures regardless and jaedong simply wouldn't have gotten a hydra den. he'd still win for sure.
but yeah it's odd, no idea where it went or why he cancelled it
i actually think it would have made a huge difference. having one marine behind the wall constantly shooting at the six initial lings would have allowed fantasy to set up a much better defense before zergling speed finished. he could have at least gotten a bunker or something. i doubt jaedong would have continued to make that many zerglings if fantasy had done that. jaedong saw the opportunity and seized it.
It really does make a huge difference. You don't want the marine to shoot down your zerglings and you would have to micro them to make sure that they don't die, rather than just pounding the buildings to your heart's content.
On August 14 2009 20:48 pr0t0ss wrote: LJD play is beautifull it's like a classic music, like a symphony
he deserved everyone of his wins
what can fantasy do? some bunker cheese? MSL mean much less than OSL after all this OSL became Jaedong's coronation for the bownja, best of the best of the best al times, etc. title
I just do NOT understand how people can be SO BIASED to one side or the other! I really cant! Jaedong failed in Proleague Grand Finals, Fantasy failed in OSL Semi Finals, who the fuck are YOU to judge who is better?
u need to calm down. simiple fact is that, for whatever reason, OSL championships are worth the most for an individual player. Winning a few games in Proleague is commendable but doesn't hold the same clout as an OSL championship
actually thats more our perspective than theirs. proleague grand final is the single most important event to every progamer
thats the most overgeneralizing assumption I have ever read. You cant even speak korean but certainly you know what is most important to every progamer...
The grand finals WAS the most important event. It was the culmination of the entire year -_- I remember reading some interview in which some progamer actually said this outright.
On August 14 2009 20:56 Uligor wrote: I, admittedly a Fantasy fan, must disagree with the comparison between Fantasy's cheese and Jaedong's cheese. Fantasy's cheese was not just a simple BBS, it was a smart fake wall-in strategy that was new and innovative. Jaedong's 4 pool on the other hand was not innovative at all, though to his credit he did display cleverness by hiding the additional lings.
The statement "You liked Fantasy's cheese so therefore you cannot dislike Jaedong's cheese" is therefore in my opinion inaccurate because they were different on a strategic level. The statement is also a double-edged sword because a good portion of the Jaedong fans now cheering for Jaedong's cheese loathed Fantasy's cheese.
While I understand that the whole "cheese hate" is simply an excuse to bash another player, I still think I should point that this statement is shallow.
Go on, try and figure out a different kind of cheese that doesnt fail horribly 95% of time for ZERG.
On August 14 2009 20:48 pr0t0ss wrote: LJD play is beautifull it's like a classic music, like a symphony
he deserved everyone of his wins
what can fantasy do? some bunker cheese? MSL mean much less than OSL after all this OSL became Jaedong's coronation for the bownja, best of the best of the best al times, etc. title
I just do NOT understand how people can be SO BIASED to one side or the other! I really cant! Jaedong failed in Proleague Grand Finals, Fantasy failed in OSL Semi Finals, who the fuck are YOU to judge who is better?
u need to calm down. simiple fact is that, for whatever reason, OSL championships are worth the most for an individual player. Winning a few games in Proleague is commendable but doesn't hold the same clout as an OSL championship
actually thats more our perspective than theirs. proleague grand final is the single most important event to every progamer
thats the most overgeneralizing assumption I have ever read. You cant even speak korean but certainly you know what is most important to every progamer...
i've been following this stuff for a long time man, i definitely know the situation on this subject
so what? Ive been watching ProSC since Grrr... vs [B&G]TheBoy finals (at least thats the first finals i distinctively remember). How long have you been watching?
so like.. this is kind of off-topic, but I don't think there is ever going to be another bonjwa again simply because there is way too much fan separation between top players now. D: Given the reason there is such separation is because the top players' skill levels are so close together. But still. Was there this much hate between fans of progamers back in the boxer/savior/nada etc days?
On August 14 2009 21:08 d_so wrote: don't you think thought that part of it is just lip service (player's expressing their high regard for proleague) as Proleague gives huge amounts of exposure to sponsored-team gaming thereby increasing the $$$ players can get in terms of salary?
there's probably a certain small level of that, but since its drilled into their heads by their coaches from day 1, it's more plausible that they actually do feel that way
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/4Chiq.png)
DUNNO BUT IM WATCHING NOW
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