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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On July 05 2009 20:22 Nokeboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 20:20 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:17 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:16 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:15 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:12 Jayson X wrote:On July 05 2009 20:05 Nokeboy wrote:
It might be hard to do but its extremely cheap, you shouldn't be able to win a game by defending the whole time. Bullshit, if anything you shouldn't be able to LOOSE a game by attacking the whole time. Terran is best turtling race and best 200/200 army. You shouldn't be able to successfully hold off any type of offense until you get 200/200 imo. so basically you're calling Shuttle's mistake a terran issue? Singular "mistake". Flash made many mistakes, including losing his army like 3 times on fair fights. Its ok, he is a terran and can turtle until the protoss kills himself from boredom. Singular? Not reinforcing fast enough? Recalling into a minefield? Instead of destroying CC's which could've ended the game he runs the opposite direction? Constantly throwing units into walled off places? Shuttle made plenty and plenty of mistakes. How do you avoid recalling into a mine field when Flash was turtling as hard as he was? He had like 100 turrets surrounded his base and science vessel at every expansion for EMP, tanks if no science vessel and mines where neither of the 2 were present. For a unit that takes 0 micro and no presence of mind to use, mines sure do a lot of damage. I am like F- player if I actually do play, but even I could take 15 vultures and plant mines evenly throughout my base so there is no open space to recall.
He already hallucinated his arbiters -_- Yet he decided it would be wise to not recall on top of the factories but rather it is smarter to recall on the supply depots and obvious turret spacing with mines in them.
He could've recall'd on the armory, he could've sent a suicide observer, he could done anything except that.
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2/2 if liquibet WAS UP! *cough*
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Osaka27157 Posts
On July 05 2009 20:20 Nokeboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 20:19 Smix wrote:On July 05 2009 20:17 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:16 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:15 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:12 Jayson X wrote:On July 05 2009 20:05 Nokeboy wrote:
It might be hard to do but its extremely cheap, you shouldn't be able to win a game by defending the whole time. Bullshit, if anything you shouldn't be able to LOOSE a game by attacking the whole time. Terran is best turtling race and best 200/200 army. You shouldn't be able to successfully hold off any type of offense until you get 200/200 imo. so basically you're calling Shuttle's mistake a terran issue? Singular "mistake". Flash made many mistakes, including losing his army like 3 times on fair fights. Its ok, he is a terran and can turtle until the protoss kills himself from boredom. Nokeboy listen to your own sig: "just enjoy watching it!" Just because I don't play the game doesn't mean that I can't form my own opinion. At the highest level of play, you shouldn't be able to be 100% defensive and win. 70/30, 80/20, 50/50 sure, but not 100/0
Your problem is that you only see the concept of offense as attacking. Offense is more than attacking. Offense is occupying territory. That is Flash's offense.
Anyway, you obviously didn't watch the game closely enough. Flash attacked at perfect times, taking the out bottom expos and eliminating the center twice.
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On July 05 2009 20:25 MrHoon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 20:22 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:20 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:17 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:16 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:15 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:12 Jayson X wrote:On July 05 2009 20:05 Nokeboy wrote:
It might be hard to do but its extremely cheap, you shouldn't be able to win a game by defending the whole time. Bullshit, if anything you shouldn't be able to LOOSE a game by attacking the whole time. Terran is best turtling race and best 200/200 army. You shouldn't be able to successfully hold off any type of offense until you get 200/200 imo. so basically you're calling Shuttle's mistake a terran issue? Singular "mistake". Flash made many mistakes, including losing his army like 3 times on fair fights. Its ok, he is a terran and can turtle until the protoss kills himself from boredom. Singular? Not reinforcing fast enough? Recalling into a minefield? Instead of destroying CC's which could've ended the game he runs the opposite direction? Constantly throwing units into walled off places? Shuttle made plenty and plenty of mistakes. How do you avoid recalling into a mine field when Flash was turtling as hard as he was? He had like 100 turrets surrounded his base and science vessel at every expansion for EMP, tanks if no science vessel and mines where neither of the 2 were present. For a unit that takes 0 micro and no presence of mind to use, mines sure do a lot of damage. I am like F- player if I actually do play, but even I could take 15 vultures and plant mines evenly throughout my base so there is no open space to recall. He already hallucinated his arbiters -_- Yet he decided it would be wise to not recall on top of the factories but rather it is smarter to recall on the supply depots and obvious turret spacing with mines in them. He could've recall'd on the armory, he could've sent a suicide observer, he could done anything except that.
I'm pretty sure he did suicide an obs to check it out.
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On July 05 2009 20:22 Nokeboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 20:20 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:17 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:16 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:15 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:12 Jayson X wrote:On July 05 2009 20:05 Nokeboy wrote:
It might be hard to do but its extremely cheap, you shouldn't be able to win a game by defending the whole time. Bullshit, if anything you shouldn't be able to LOOSE a game by attacking the whole time. Terran is best turtling race and best 200/200 army. You shouldn't be able to successfully hold off any type of offense until you get 200/200 imo. so basically you're calling Shuttle's mistake a terran issue? Singular "mistake". Flash made many mistakes, including losing his army like 3 times on fair fights. Its ok, he is a terran and can turtle until the protoss kills himself from boredom. Singular? Not reinforcing fast enough? Recalling into a minefield? Instead of destroying CC's which could've ended the game he runs the opposite direction? Constantly throwing units into walled off places? Shuttle made plenty and plenty of mistakes. How do you avoid recalling into a mine field when Flash was turtling as hard as he was? He had like 100 turrets surrounded his base and science vessel at every expansion for EMP, tanks if no science vessel and mines where neither of the 2 were present. For a unit that takes 0 micro and no presence of mind to use, mines sure do a lot of damage. I am like F- player if I actually do play, but even I could take 15 vultures and plant mines evenly throughout my base so there is no open space to recall.
I love it when people who don't play the game think planting mines with proper spacing is trivial. Yes it's trivial if you don't do anything else for like three minutes.... Even using magic box can be optimized (and is) by better players.
Nokeboy, quit crying. There's no way Bisu or Jangbi or Stork (well maybe Stork, because anything is possible with that clown) would have lost that game anyway.
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mumbo jumbo is only after valor games?
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
I've seen several styles of TvP from FlaSh. Those of you who say FlaSh ONLY turtles and pushes out at 200 at 3/3, that's untrue. I've seen at least several games where FlaSh does Fantasy-style vulture harrassing and then takes the game with a push afterwards.
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On July 05 2009 20:22 Nokeboy wrote:
How do you avoid recalling into a mine field when Flash was turtling as hard as he was? He had like 100 turrets surrounded his base and science vessel at every expansion for EMP, tanks if no science vessel and mines where neither of the 2 were present. For a unit that takes 0 micro and no presence of mind to use, mines sure do a lot of damage. I am like F- player if I actually do play, but even I could take 15 vultures and plant mines evenly throughout my base so there is no open space to recall.
One of the best ways, actually, is to recall near the min-line. At worst, even if you lose your army you take a bunch of SCVs with you. At best, you have a clear shot at the CC and no mines (because of the SCV thing). Of course, you run the risk of getting your troops drilled if you recall right on the line, but hey, risks are part of the game.
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On July 05 2009 20:24 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 20:22 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:20 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:17 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:16 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:15 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:12 Jayson X wrote:On July 05 2009 20:05 Nokeboy wrote:
It might be hard to do but its extremely cheap, you shouldn't be able to win a game by defending the whole time. Bullshit, if anything you shouldn't be able to LOOSE a game by attacking the whole time. Terran is best turtling race and best 200/200 army. You shouldn't be able to successfully hold off any type of offense until you get 200/200 imo. so basically you're calling Shuttle's mistake a terran issue? Singular "mistake". Flash made many mistakes, including losing his army like 3 times on fair fights. Its ok, he is a terran and can turtle until the protoss kills himself from boredom. Singular? Not reinforcing fast enough? Recalling into a minefield? Instead of destroying CC's which could've ended the game he runs the opposite direction? Constantly throwing units into walled off places? Shuttle made plenty and plenty of mistakes. How do you avoid recalling into a mine field when Flash was turtling as hard as he was? He had like 100 turrets surrounded his base and science vessel at every expansion for EMP, tanks if no science vessel and mines where neither of the 2 were present. For a unit that takes 0 micro and no presence of mind to use, mines sure do a lot of damage. I am like F- player if I actually do play, but even I could take 15 vultures and plant mines evenly throughout my base so there is no open space to recall. By all means, I would invite you to go on ICCup and play some TvP and let everyone know how easy it is. Oh, and the obvious answer to your question is: ...don't recall.
Ok good idea, lets not recall.
That is kind of what I assume Blizzard put in recall, to break turtling terrans.
How do you break his turtle?
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On July 05 2009 20:27 Nokeboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 20:24 Rostam wrote:On July 05 2009 20:22 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:20 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:17 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:16 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:15 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:12 Jayson X wrote:On July 05 2009 20:05 Nokeboy wrote:
It might be hard to do but its extremely cheap, you shouldn't be able to win a game by defending the whole time. Bullshit, if anything you shouldn't be able to LOOSE a game by attacking the whole time. Terran is best turtling race and best 200/200 army. You shouldn't be able to successfully hold off any type of offense until you get 200/200 imo. so basically you're calling Shuttle's mistake a terran issue? Singular "mistake". Flash made many mistakes, including losing his army like 3 times on fair fights. Its ok, he is a terran and can turtle until the protoss kills himself from boredom. Singular? Not reinforcing fast enough? Recalling into a minefield? Instead of destroying CC's which could've ended the game he runs the opposite direction? Constantly throwing units into walled off places? Shuttle made plenty and plenty of mistakes. How do you avoid recalling into a mine field when Flash was turtling as hard as he was? He had like 100 turrets surrounded his base and science vessel at every expansion for EMP, tanks if no science vessel and mines where neither of the 2 were present. For a unit that takes 0 micro and no presence of mind to use, mines sure do a lot of damage. I am like F- player if I actually do play, but even I could take 15 vultures and plant mines evenly throughout my base so there is no open space to recall. By all means, I would invite you to go on ICCup and play some TvP and let everyone know how easy it is. Oh, and the obvious answer to your question is: ...don't recall. Ok good idea, lets not recall. That is kind of what I assume Blizzard put in recall, to break turtling terrans. How do you break his turtle?
Watch any Bisu vs Flash games. Bisu breaks flash's 'ultimate defense' many, many times.
Ironically Flash wins on Medusa huh.
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Flash wasn't 100% defensive in game 1. He took bottom right away from shuttle and destroyed Shuttle's mid expansion several times. He just never extended beyond his reach. You can call him boring if you want, but he was incredibly outnumbered for most of that game and he abused the terrain to his advantage, made attainable offensive goals and let Shuttle's fear of Flash's 200/200 army convince him to throw wave after wave of units into disadvantageous situations.
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Osaka27157 Posts
On July 05 2009 20:27 Nokeboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 20:24 Rostam wrote:On July 05 2009 20:22 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:20 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:17 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:16 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:15 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:12 Jayson X wrote:On July 05 2009 20:05 Nokeboy wrote:
It might be hard to do but its extremely cheap, you shouldn't be able to win a game by defending the whole time. Bullshit, if anything you shouldn't be able to LOOSE a game by attacking the whole time. Terran is best turtling race and best 200/200 army. You shouldn't be able to successfully hold off any type of offense until you get 200/200 imo. so basically you're calling Shuttle's mistake a terran issue? Singular "mistake". Flash made many mistakes, including losing his army like 3 times on fair fights. Its ok, he is a terran and can turtle until the protoss kills himself from boredom. Singular? Not reinforcing fast enough? Recalling into a minefield? Instead of destroying CC's which could've ended the game he runs the opposite direction? Constantly throwing units into walled off places? Shuttle made plenty and plenty of mistakes. How do you avoid recalling into a mine field when Flash was turtling as hard as he was? He had like 100 turrets surrounded his base and science vessel at every expansion for EMP, tanks if no science vessel and mines where neither of the 2 were present. For a unit that takes 0 micro and no presence of mind to use, mines sure do a lot of damage. I am like F- player if I actually do play, but even I could take 15 vultures and plant mines evenly throughout my base so there is no open space to recall. By all means, I would invite you to go on ICCup and play some TvP and let everyone know how easy it is. Oh, and the obvious answer to your question is: ...don't recall. Ok good idea, lets not recall. That is kind of what I assume Blizzard put in recall, to break turtling terrans. How do you break his turtle?
Don't stasis the units at the front, stasis them at the back. God, every time shuttle did that a part of me died.
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On July 05 2009 20:27 Nokeboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 20:24 Rostam wrote:On July 05 2009 20:22 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:20 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:17 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:16 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:15 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:12 Jayson X wrote:On July 05 2009 20:05 Nokeboy wrote:
It might be hard to do but its extremely cheap, you shouldn't be able to win a game by defending the whole time. Bullshit, if anything you shouldn't be able to LOOSE a game by attacking the whole time. Terran is best turtling race and best 200/200 army. You shouldn't be able to successfully hold off any type of offense until you get 200/200 imo. so basically you're calling Shuttle's mistake a terran issue? Singular "mistake". Flash made many mistakes, including losing his army like 3 times on fair fights. Its ok, he is a terran and can turtle until the protoss kills himself from boredom. Singular? Not reinforcing fast enough? Recalling into a minefield? Instead of destroying CC's which could've ended the game he runs the opposite direction? Constantly throwing units into walled off places? Shuttle made plenty and plenty of mistakes. How do you avoid recalling into a mine field when Flash was turtling as hard as he was? He had like 100 turrets surrounded his base and science vessel at every expansion for EMP, tanks if no science vessel and mines where neither of the 2 were present. For a unit that takes 0 micro and no presence of mind to use, mines sure do a lot of damage. I am like F- player if I actually do play, but even I could take 15 vultures and plant mines evenly throughout my base so there is no open space to recall. By all means, I would invite you to go on ICCup and play some TvP and let everyone know how easy it is. Oh, and the obvious answer to your question is: ...don't recall. Ok good idea, lets not recall. That is kind of what I assume Blizzard put in recall, to break turtling terrans. How do you break his turtle?
By not suiciding all your units into mines over and over and stasising the tanks in BACK rather than in front so that your not building walls for flash?
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On July 05 2009 20:27 Nokeboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 20:24 Rostam wrote:On July 05 2009 20:22 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:20 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:17 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:16 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:15 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:12 Jayson X wrote:On July 05 2009 20:05 Nokeboy wrote:
It might be hard to do but its extremely cheap, you shouldn't be able to win a game by defending the whole time. Bullshit, if anything you shouldn't be able to LOOSE a game by attacking the whole time. Terran is best turtling race and best 200/200 army. You shouldn't be able to successfully hold off any type of offense until you get 200/200 imo. so basically you're calling Shuttle's mistake a terran issue? Singular "mistake". Flash made many mistakes, including losing his army like 3 times on fair fights. Its ok, he is a terran and can turtle until the protoss kills himself from boredom. Singular? Not reinforcing fast enough? Recalling into a minefield? Instead of destroying CC's which could've ended the game he runs the opposite direction? Constantly throwing units into walled off places? Shuttle made plenty and plenty of mistakes. How do you avoid recalling into a mine field when Flash was turtling as hard as he was? He had like 100 turrets surrounded his base and science vessel at every expansion for EMP, tanks if no science vessel and mines where neither of the 2 were present. For a unit that takes 0 micro and no presence of mind to use, mines sure do a lot of damage. I am like F- player if I actually do play, but even I could take 15 vultures and plant mines evenly throughout my base so there is no open space to recall. By all means, I would invite you to go on ICCup and play some TvP and let everyone know how easy it is. Oh, and the obvious answer to your question is: ...don't recall. Ok good idea, lets not recall. That is kind of what I assume Blizzard put in recall, to break turtling terrans. How do you break his turtle?
Don't need to actually break turtle to do damage, you can still do massive amounts of damage by placing your opponent out of position. Who said you had to charge into a line of mines and tanks mindlessly to do "damage"
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On July 05 2009 20:25 Nokeboy wrote:
I don't know the map too well but that expansion is Flash's and don't you have to go through the middle to go there? Good job taking out an expansion that has no defenses and cut off the path for reinforcements by turtling at your expansion
The bottom-right expansion is usually the left-start's players 5th base. The fact that Shuttle had it at all means that he was way ahead. Incidentally, another Shuttle mistake: with that much extra money, that base should have been pylon-blocked and/or had a bunch more cannons. Maybe a few more temps, too, but I can't remember his unit composition/size at that time.
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On July 05 2009 20:26 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 20:20 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:19 Smix wrote:On July 05 2009 20:17 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:16 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:15 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:12 Jayson X wrote:On July 05 2009 20:05 Nokeboy wrote:
It might be hard to do but its extremely cheap, you shouldn't be able to win a game by defending the whole time. Bullshit, if anything you shouldn't be able to LOOSE a game by attacking the whole time. Terran is best turtling race and best 200/200 army. You shouldn't be able to successfully hold off any type of offense until you get 200/200 imo. so basically you're calling Shuttle's mistake a terran issue? Singular "mistake". Flash made many mistakes, including losing his army like 3 times on fair fights. Its ok, he is a terran and can turtle until the protoss kills himself from boredom. Nokeboy listen to your own sig: "just enjoy watching it!" Just because I don't play the game doesn't mean that I can't form my own opinion. At the highest level of play, you shouldn't be able to be 100% defensive and win. 70/30, 80/20, 50/50 sure, but not 100/0 Your problem is that you only see the concept of offense as attacking. Offense is more than attacking. Offense is occupying territory. That is Flash's offense. Anyway, you obviously didn't watch the game closely enough. Flash attacked at perfect times, taking the out bottom expos and eliminating the center twice.
I didn't really see many attacks. (Sorry if I call something wrong, I am sure you know what I am talking about). He took natural expansion, then mined out the temple, took that expansion then took the bottom middle expansion. None of these expansions required a fight if I remember correctly. Shuttle took the bottom right but didn't defend it. When Flash took bottom middle, he just went to bottom right and took it without resistance. Shuttle took all his expansion way too early and was mined out before Flash because he took them a little slower. There was no real attacks other than taking bottom right when no one was defending. Flash turtled successfully using less minerals than Shuttle used to attack, thus Shuttle being mined out quicker than Flash. Which is why the bottom right was so essential for Shuttle to take out because that was Flash last expansion other than bottom right which he lost
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On July 05 2009 20:31 Nokeboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 20:26 Manifesto7 wrote:On July 05 2009 20:20 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:19 Smix wrote:On July 05 2009 20:17 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:16 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:15 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:12 Jayson X wrote:On July 05 2009 20:05 Nokeboy wrote:
It might be hard to do but its extremely cheap, you shouldn't be able to win a game by defending the whole time. Bullshit, if anything you shouldn't be able to LOOSE a game by attacking the whole time. Terran is best turtling race and best 200/200 army. You shouldn't be able to successfully hold off any type of offense until you get 200/200 imo. so basically you're calling Shuttle's mistake a terran issue? Singular "mistake". Flash made many mistakes, including losing his army like 3 times on fair fights. Its ok, he is a terran and can turtle until the protoss kills himself from boredom. Nokeboy listen to your own sig: "just enjoy watching it!" Just because I don't play the game doesn't mean that I can't form my own opinion. At the highest level of play, you shouldn't be able to be 100% defensive and win. 70/30, 80/20, 50/50 sure, but not 100/0 Your problem is that you only see the concept of offense as attacking. Offense is more than attacking. Offense is occupying territory. That is Flash's offense. Anyway, you obviously didn't watch the game closely enough. Flash attacked at perfect times, taking the out bottom expos and eliminating the center twice. I didn't really see many attacks. (Sorry if I call something wrong, I am sure you know what I am talking about). He took natural expansion, then mined out the temple, took that expansion then took the bottom middle expansion. None of these expansions required a fight if I remember correctly. Shuttle took the bottom right but didn't defend it. When Flash took bottom middle, he just went to bottom right and took it without resistance. Shuttle took all his expansion way too early and was mined out before Flash because he took them a little slower. There was no real attacks other than taking bottom right when no one was defending. Flash turtled successfully using less minerals than Shuttle used to attack, thus Shuttle being mined out quicker than Flash. Which is why the bottom right was so essential for Shuttle to take out because that was Flash last expansion other than bottom right which he lost
If flash hadn't of killed the middle twice he would of lost, so your point is moot. His offense is actually what won him the game, its just he had to wait for the right time to do it.
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On July 05 2009 20:30 opiuman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 20:27 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:24 Rostam wrote:On July 05 2009 20:22 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:20 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:17 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:16 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:15 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:12 Jayson X wrote:On July 05 2009 20:05 Nokeboy wrote:
It might be hard to do but its extremely cheap, you shouldn't be able to win a game by defending the whole time. Bullshit, if anything you shouldn't be able to LOOSE a game by attacking the whole time. Terran is best turtling race and best 200/200 army. You shouldn't be able to successfully hold off any type of offense until you get 200/200 imo. so basically you're calling Shuttle's mistake a terran issue? Singular "mistake". Flash made many mistakes, including losing his army like 3 times on fair fights. Its ok, he is a terran and can turtle until the protoss kills himself from boredom. Singular? Not reinforcing fast enough? Recalling into a minefield? Instead of destroying CC's which could've ended the game he runs the opposite direction? Constantly throwing units into walled off places? Shuttle made plenty and plenty of mistakes. How do you avoid recalling into a mine field when Flash was turtling as hard as he was? He had like 100 turrets surrounded his base and science vessel at every expansion for EMP, tanks if no science vessel and mines where neither of the 2 were present. For a unit that takes 0 micro and no presence of mind to use, mines sure do a lot of damage. I am like F- player if I actually do play, but even I could take 15 vultures and plant mines evenly throughout my base so there is no open space to recall. By all means, I would invite you to go on ICCup and play some TvP and let everyone know how easy it is. Oh, and the obvious answer to your question is: ...don't recall. Ok good idea, lets not recall. That is kind of what I assume Blizzard put in recall, to break turtling terrans. How do you break his turtle? Don't need to actually break turtle to do damage, you can still do massive amounts of damage by placing your opponent out of position. Who said you had to charge into a line of mines and tanks mindlessly to do "damage"
The way the map is made, you can't get them out of position lol. You just go in from behind your base and be safe from being caught out of position.
Maybe it is just this map that gets me a little angry at turtling because it is so easily done with the temple/minerals in the back.
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9070 Posts
On July 05 2009 20:28 MrHoon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 20:27 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:24 Rostam wrote:On July 05 2009 20:22 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:20 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:17 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:16 MrHoon wrote:On July 05 2009 20:15 Nokeboy wrote:On July 05 2009 20:12 Jayson X wrote:On July 05 2009 20:05 Nokeboy wrote:
It might be hard to do but its extremely cheap, you shouldn't be able to win a game by defending the whole time. Bullshit, if anything you shouldn't be able to LOOSE a game by attacking the whole time. Terran is best turtling race and best 200/200 army. You shouldn't be able to successfully hold off any type of offense until you get 200/200 imo. so basically you're calling Shuttle's mistake a terran issue? Singular "mistake". Flash made many mistakes, including losing his army like 3 times on fair fights. Its ok, he is a terran and can turtle until the protoss kills himself from boredom. Singular? Not reinforcing fast enough? Recalling into a minefield? Instead of destroying CC's which could've ended the game he runs the opposite direction? Constantly throwing units into walled off places? Shuttle made plenty and plenty of mistakes. How do you avoid recalling into a mine field when Flash was turtling as hard as he was? He had like 100 turrets surrounded his base and science vessel at every expansion for EMP, tanks if no science vessel and mines where neither of the 2 were present. For a unit that takes 0 micro and no presence of mind to use, mines sure do a lot of damage. I am like F- player if I actually do play, but even I could take 15 vultures and plant mines evenly throughout my base so there is no open space to recall. By all means, I would invite you to go on ICCup and play some TvP and let everyone know how easy it is. Oh, and the obvious answer to your question is: ...don't recall. Ok good idea, lets not recall. That is kind of what I assume Blizzard put in recall, to break turtling terrans. How do you break his turtle? Watch any Bisu vs Flash games. Bisu breaks flash's 'ultimate defense' many, many times. Ironically Flash wins on Medusa huh.
Another problem was that it took like 2 minutes for shuttle to remacro his army back to 200/200 after each big battle having in mind he had 4 running bases and surely about 20 gateways at a time...his macro was terrible. As an example for the opposite - Flash vs Bisu on medusa, their second encounter on the map, after flash won the first big battle, bisu just came out with 9000 zealots and destroyed tha push
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EPT
