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Uh can a mod make my title not all upper case 
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16986 Posts
No LAN Latency, a one week ladder and a shitty/old map pool?
:/
That being said, however, I might as well give it a try (except I have two midterms in a row at the end of the week lol)
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United States12607 Posts
I wonder when Gaia will die
NEVARRRRRR
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
sigh
/trying to get a hold of wcg higher ups
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So I installed the client on Vista x64 and went on west, and the client immediately crashed.
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On April 14 2009 02:34 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
sigh
/trying to get a hold of wcg higher ups
Better than the maps that were listed in the rules they sent out yesterday  But yeah, thanks :D
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I can't even register on that site. It tells to "Check my ID" no matter what I put in.
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So, I ran GamOn client, then launched BW with Chaos Launcher, and I'm on west with WCG icon and WCG game type available.
Someone do the same and let's test and see if we can play with LL and have the game count?
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I haven't even received an email yet for my WCG password/username. =( The last email I got said I would get it today.
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On April 14 2009 02:44 littlechava wrote:
I can't even register on that site. It tells to "Check my ID" no matter what I put in.
Yea happened to me too. Just click your ID so it rechecks and problem solved.
Edit: By the way I also got the e-mail. It contains my WCGZone ID and the league password.
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On April 14 2009 02:53 Mr.E wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2009 02:44 littlechava wrote:
I can't even register on that site. It tells to "Check my ID" no matter what I put in. Yea happened to me too. Just click your ID so it rechecks and problem solved. Edit: By the way I also got the e-mail. It contains my WCGZone ID and the league password.
Well, the problem is it doesn't check at all. There's just a popup saying "RegisterIndex.DuplicationCheck () : undefined". I tried registering in IE and it didn't work either
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Laurent (head bw admin for wcg) said the maps are in fact gaia, paranoid, azalea and w/e the old ass terrible map was (I'm blanking).
I just fired off a strongly worded email to one of my contacts/text msg'd the other.
Laurent (who lurks this forum) was of little use. He is a great guy but he isn't really going to bat for anything.. just kinda repeating stuff from the same conflicting emails I received.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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On April 14 2009 03:18 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Laurent (head bw admin for wcg) said the maps are in fact gaia, paranoid, azalea and w/e the old ass terrible map was (I'm blanking).
I just fired off a strongly worded email to one of my contacts/text msg'd the other.
Laurent (who lurks this forum) was of little use. He is a great guy but he isn't really going to bat for anything.. just kinda repeating stuff from the same conflicting emails I received.
Blue Storm
Python
Tau Cross
Gaia
which are the maps??
gaia, paranoid, azalea
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Katowice25012 Posts
I like how a prominent member of the SC community is involved with WCG and the map pool still makes no sense
Best of luck with it inc 
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WCG has sucked for the past 4 or 5 years. I don't even know how they are still in business to be honest the tournaments each year manage to get worse and worse ...
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some pro map maker should try to make the maps better so it isn't as bad as it is currently
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On April 14 2009 03:18 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Laurent (head bw admin for wcg) said the maps are in fact gaia, paranoid, azalea and w/e the old ass terrible map was (I'm blanking).
I just fired off a strongly worded email to one of my contacts/text msg'd the other.
Laurent (who lurks this forum) was of little use. He is a great guy but he isn't really going to bat for anything.. just kinda repeating stuff from the same conflicting emails I received.
Ugh what the fuck. They put one map set in the rules and a different map set to download and expect people to just figure it out
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
OK!
I got a reply
They need to talk to WCG korea higher ups to finalize decisions but it looks like a POLL will be made for what maps should be used (where, who and how) said poll goes down is beyond me but in general: If we get to pick the maps that in the poll I think it will be infinitely better than "use what was from last year" policy.
Additionally the LAN LATENCY situation is being resolved.. if not by tonight surely soon.
There are other things going down but this is the important stuff for now.. I will most likely be sending an email to all WCG USA participants with the fixed rules/standards.
They really are making SCBW a priority and I think they are seriously trying to correct this. We know they aren't perfect but lets give em credit for such an immediate and enthused response in trying to make this a better situation.
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Good news. Thanks for the work Geoff
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On April 14 2009 02:58 littlechava wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2009 02:53 Mr.E wrote:On April 14 2009 02:44 littlechava wrote:
I can't even register on that site. It tells to "Check my ID" no matter what I put in. Yea happened to me too. Just click your ID so it rechecks and problem solved. Edit: By the way I also got the e-mail. It contains my WCGZone ID and the league password. Well, the problem is it doesn't check at all. There's just a popup saying "RegisterIndex.DuplicationCheck () : undefined". I tried registering in IE and it didn't work either
If you actually want to play in this and plan to follow through, I can set up your account for you and then give you the info and the pass to whatever hotmail account i use (Or you can just tell me your e-mail)
PM me if you want.
Never mind, tested it just to make sure and now I get the same exact error. Sorry.
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are there gonna be any new players showing up?
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Just tested, if you play a game w/ Chaos BW crashes at the end of the game.
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Guys i don't understand how your starting the game with the client. Are you just registering for the "monthly league" or are you some how able to access the qualifier league. The 'how to' guide is just a dead link so..
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They must be fixing it. Nothing seems to be working.
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Korea (South)11579 Posts
i can't register an account. too many bugs on this site.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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Edit: I just got an email. It is a ladder and it starts tonight.
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Lets wait for the update. Still over 4 hours left.
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It seems like it will be a ladder. At this page how do you register? I can't figure out what to do.
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On April 14 2009 07:21 Jonoman92 wrote:It seems like it will be a ladder. At this page how do you register? I can't figure out what to do.
In the top left there's a register button. I still can't though :\
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On April 14 2009 07:28 littlechava wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2009 07:21 Jonoman92 wrote:It seems like it will be a ladder. At this page how do you register? I can't figure out what to do. In the top left there's a register button. I still can't though :\
Ah ok I found it but I'm getting the same error you described above.
keeps say, "Information: Check ID"
They should just set up a ICCUP team for the ladder. And only allow people to play others within the team. That would be so much easier for everyone.
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Eugh I'm getting the same registration problem at WCGZone. First I had to create an entire new account at WCG because they didn't have a "forgot password" link, now I can't register because of "RegisterIndex.DuplicationCheck () : undefined" and "Information: Check ID" errors....
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On April 14 2009 07:40 Jonoman92 wrote:
Ah ok I found it but I'm getting the same error you described above.
keeps say, "Information: Check ID"
They should just set up a ICCUP team for the ladder. And only allow people to play others within the team. That would be so much easier for everyone.
Yeh, this GameON client stuff is BS. And no lan latency is -.-hmmm
I also cannot register I get the ID duplication stuff too.
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If you had signed up for this qualifier, you were sent your login information.
There is no need to register as this has alrdy been done for you. If you didnt register , then you will have to wait and register for the next qualifier.
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hmmmmm my id works but i cant click on how to play..... i hope i can download gameon and it works. my question is how will i be able to play ladder? after 10pm eastern i just can play anytime for the rest of the week? hmmm
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basically play as much as you can against other people on the ladder.
The maps have been adjusted to :
Blue Storm
Python
Gaia
Tau Cross
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So it said in the e-mail the ladder would start today. But on the web-site it shows not until tomorrow... I really want to start!
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On April 14 2009 09:12 Laurent wrote:
If you had signed up for this qualifier, you were sent your login information.
There is no need to register as this has alrdy been done for you. If you didnt register , then you will have to wait and register for the next qualifier.
sigh
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Where are the regional offline tournaments? Anyone know?
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The ladder does start today. You need to adjust the timezone on the website to whatever timezone you are in.
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Currently there are no regional offlines scheduled, winners of the online ladders will go straight to the US Finals.
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1 week ladder...
no lan latency...
old as fuck AH client...
looks like I'm not playing WCG Online this year
If I don't qualify from US Open, I won't compete n e further
im getting absolutely disgusted at wcg
AND WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF MAPS ARE THOSE!
Talk about the most boring FUCKING maps ever.
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Feel free to message WCG HQ on the WCG Zone site with your concerns.
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Btw, what is US Open? Offline qualification?
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The US Invitational is a tournament where all the top finishers from last years US Finals are invited to play. The winners from the US Invitational automatically qualify for the US Finals.
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United States4991 Posts
Yay, WCG USA manages to suck again.
I should get Canadian citizenship and play there or something
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All the problems you blame WCG USA for are not WCG USA's fault. WCG Korea lays down the law. WCG USA has very little room to make changes.
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On April 14 2009 10:07 HnR)Insane wrote:Yay, WCG USA manages to suck again. I should get Canadian citizenship and play there or something
oh i think it's safe to say WCG SC:BW USA beats Canada
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United States4991 Posts
Are you seriously telling me they tell you to run a 1 week online ladder with an antique antihack without LAN latency (which probably doesn't work anyway if bwhacks works for 1 hour on it) with no offline prelims/regionals? Heck, you guys even send out two different e-mails with completely conflicting information. I'm not even really complaining about the maps though, but every single year WCG USA makes utterly incomprehensible decisions. The handling of known abusers/hackers (even during WCG itself) is a joke. There is literally no justification for not letting people register during the ladder. Maybe you have some idea that it will stop people from making accounts and freewinning or whatever, but that helps not one whit for that.
I'm not sure why a company / entity which knows so little about running StarCraft events is responsible for running WCG USA. I'd rather have King Ansadi run WCG USA, frankly.
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51449 Posts
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Ya um... if the ladder starts today and I can't register on WCGZone I guess I'm screwed? -_-;; last year I thought the system was fine as it was.
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United States4991 Posts
Frankly, the way all leagues (TSL, SSL, ASL) do it running off ICCup would be the best option, but unfortunately they probably can't run it that way due to ICCup being technically against Blizzard's EULA.
They should just put Control or someone who knows about StarCraft in charge of WCG USA. He's even a TV star!
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How do you play if you can't even register @_@, and the gameon client crashes every 5 sec
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GamOn was created by WCG Korea. It is recquired to use.
Offline regionals was a budget cut , and budgets come from WCG Korea/Samsung
What exactly is the problem about having a set time to register and then following that and closing registration?
WCG Korea is in charge of running Starceaft, you play via their client, their website and their rules. I dont see whats so hard to understand about that?
The only conflicting information in the 2 emails is that one said tournament and the other said ladder. That has been clarified many times on the website.
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You cant register on the WCG Zone site because registration for this qualifier is closed. You will have to register on the WCG USA site to get into the next qualifier.
As far as the GamOn client crashing, please file a Q&A on the wcgzone site. Those questions will be answered by WCG Korea, who can troubleshoot your problems.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On April 14 2009 10:30 Laurent wrote:
GamOn was created by WCG Korea. It is recquired to use.
Offline regionals was a budget cut , and budgets come from WCG Korea/Samsung
What exactly is the problem about having a set time to register and then following that and closing registration?
WCG Korea is in charge of running Starceaft, you play via their client, their website and their rules. I dont see whats so hard to understand about that?
The only conflicting information in the 2 emails is that one said tournament and the other said ladder. That has been clarified many times on the website.
uh and the maps
and the servers to be played
there have been a LOT of organizational issues thus far actually.
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The maps were picked by Korea, if it wasnt a breach, id be happy to show you their emails. including the 5 or 6 i sent straight to korea on behalf of you.
Servers to be played is a GamOn problem, its a west qualifier, it should be set to West.
The only thing WCG USA is organizing is the registration.
Once again, submit Q&A's on wcg zone so that Korea will see all the problems.
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ehhh finnally figured it out, gameon so weird
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how do we play ladder matches? i see challenge options in gamon but i have 0 clue. also i dont have a flag is this going to be an issue?
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There are instructions on how to play a ladder match on the wcgzone site in the gameon section. Also there is a guide on the wcg usa site in the competition guides.
File a support request on the wcgzone site to get your flag fixed.
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python & gaia lol
who's the D- gamer at WCG choosing the maps?
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Python is cool! Gaia is a bit outdated though... And not a very good map for me so we should toss it.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
gamon is crashing every 5 minutes for 95% of the people.
ref isn't online to help/explain anything.
Nobody is starting / playing cause nobody knows what to do/is crashing every 5 minutes.
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why would they even put so much time for such a shitty software which is just going to cause them problems, iccup already has antihack and lan speed.. just create a ladder team and make a ladder channel
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I have contacted Korea and they say they are working on an update right now to fix the crashing problem. They were unaware of any problems until today
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I played a game... shows in my match list as a tie, presumably because the game on client crashed during the game. I uploaded the replay and did an "appeal"... fucked up
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holy shit it worked
high lat and bad maps
but i played a game and the site recognized it
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Because of all the problems that Korea is having, WCG USA has decided to postpone this qualifier. We will notify everyone by the end of day on 4/14 with a make-up schedule.
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United States10774 Posts
gonna sign up when i get a chance haha
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Edit: Ah. Lau just posted what I posted.
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The launcher didn't crash during my game. But I guess I'm one of the few. However, it did cause tremendous latency which was just about unplayable. Not just high latency but unplayable constant glitchieness.
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United States10774 Posts
oh snap it's a ladder? bah wcg site is sort of difficult to navigate
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Yea no kidding. It took me quite a while to figure out how to actually register.
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man i lost a game due to wcg game on erroring pop up and the lag that the program produces, i really hope they dont coutn these games. i had horrible lag and crashing from it
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glad i found the games wont count today good
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United States4991 Posts
What exactly is the problem about having a set time to register and then following that and closing registration?
It prevents people from playing who didn't sign up in advance? It's a ladder, so there's no reason people have to start playing from day 1. Information about events is passed around the community. No matter what you guys think about your site, I guarantee you the vast majority of competitive players are going to get their information from sites like this. And the information is more likely to surface here when the qualifier starts, so that's when players want to register to play it. I am amazed you cannot understand something so simple.
WCG Korea is in charge of running Starceaft, you play via their client, their website and their rules. I dont see whats so hard to understand about that?
It's funny, I don't see these millions of problems with other countries. If it's really WCG Korea's fault, then fuck them instead, obviously. Don't see why WCG USA is a separate entity then, if all they do is do precisely what WCG Korea retardedly tells them to do.
The only conflicting information in the 2 emails is that one said tournament and the other said ladder. That has been clarified many times on the website.
Control already responded with several other issues with conflicting information.
The only thing WCG USA is organizing is the registration.
Yep, and it's retarded to block registration after a certain date on a ladder.
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i'm online, i think :<
i'm in the wcg channel with a wcg tag, so i'm assuming i'm doing it right, but nobody else is there :/
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cool
gogo g5 and nony~~
tau blue and pythong all decent maps for p
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why was the format changed from last year? the tournament style worked much more effectively than this ladder will.... there are so many problems with a ladder.
people can trade wins, dodge good players, etc... in the end you might have some really stupid (not that they're dumb) people qualifying for the finals... like some guy who just abuses the ladder system and avoids good players or whatever else and ends up qualifying for the final and not even showing up or something.
the ladder could potentially be a huge clusterfuck for the whole WCG USA process. i think the tournament style of last year is much better
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damn... its frustrating to see huge problems that could have been avoided by letting almost anyone from the BW community oversee the project.
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how can we track the rankings?
is the ladder shown on the wcg site or iccup or something?
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United States11637 Posts
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The World Cyber Games strongly believes in listening to community feedback and making adjustments where necessary. We’ve listened to your feedback over the last 24 hours, and have decided the best course of action is to postpone the WCG 2009 Starcraft: Broodwar online qualifiers in order to provide the community with a more stable tournament solution.
Any matches that have taken place in the last 24 hours will be reset, and potentially replayed once the new system is in place. Registration will re-open for all qualifiers, and players will be notified via email as soon as any information regarding the qualifier schedule is available.
Thank you for your patience.
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good to hear, hope the new qualis turn out well
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On April 15 2009 05:45 Laurent wrote:
The World Cyber Games strongly believes in listening to community feedback and making adjustments where necessary. We’ve listened to your feedback over the last 24 hours, and have decided the best course of action is to postpone the WCG 2009 Starcraft: Broodwar online qualifiers in order to provide the community with a more stable tournament solution.
Any matches that have taken place in the last 24 hours will be reset, and potentially replayed once the new system is in place. Registration will re-open for all qualifiers, and players will be notified via email as soon as any information regarding the qualifier schedule is available.
Thank you for your patience.
Hi Laurent, thanks a lot for helping out and telling people some information and then responding to feedback. I think everyone is greatly going to appreciate this welcome change to a tournament style, thanks for listening!
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im not gonna lie i was half looking forward to playing ladder stye so i could play idra
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This is ridiculous. Who schedules a big tournament and then when it's supposed to start they start "listening" and then changing everything. This stuff should have happened months ago, not now. Fix gameon and stick with what you have, it's not like it hasn't worked in the past. It's just ridiculous having to guess how WCG is going to be ran every day, while it's supposed to be going on... Everyone has their own opinion, can't let it fucking change how WCG is going to be ran every day.
And wtf is up with the sudden bitching about maps, as WCG had a new set of maps last year (though some stayed from the previous year); they have the same set of maps for at least 2 years in a row. Acting surprised about the maps and just now complaining about it is ridiculous.Was anyone even complaining last year? I'm not a big fan of some of the maps, but enough is enough, you can't please everyone... play the games... jesus.
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true i think some people are taking advantage of their actually good listening this year and making alot of requests whereas the year before this we would of been happy if one got answered we would of been estatic. i guess we might as well strike while the irons hot though. i have a few questions though:
1. what is the official maps now after the poll
2. when does the first tournament start
3. how do you register for the new events since it said i am alraedy registered for the past ones
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I just think it's cool that they actually took our bitching into consideration and are now going to fix it. That puts a smile on my face. I came to this thread and read the posts getting ready to post some harsh words toward WCG USA for what seems like the 100th time, but this is looking better already.
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so how long is this thing post poned? and iccup lan lat plz, muta micro is impossible on this o.o
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this is soo confusing and my patience is growing weak trying to figure out how to register
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Just out of curiosity.
WCG Korea is running this.
WCG Korea is the top 24 KeSPA players plus 8 others from some event (not one hundred percent on the other 8, but I'm sure they're determined using LAN)? And it's all LAN. So they'll know there if someone is hacking (GamOn client can suck balls and there won't be a problem because observers/commentators/spectators will be like "WTF 10K minerals? O.O") Someone said this somewhere else. The United States is a huge fucking country just for travel. One central LAN for everyone to try and qualify. So we need to use online. GamOn has been bitched about millions of times. Why don't they just let us use Iccup or at least Chaos launcher and just use a tournament, because a ladder is so abusable? Software isn't one size fits all. We have different needs than Koreans. Do they realize this? Put iNcontroL in control, and we will have a smooth successful event.
Couldn't help the terrible pun, sorry :p
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Yea I agree with Xeris. I think the tournament method might be better.
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On April 15 2009 08:29 MachineHead wrote:
This is ridiculous. Who schedules a big tournament and then when it's supposed to start they start "listening" and then changing everything. This stuff should have happened months ago, not now. Fix gameon and stick with what you have, it's not like it hasn't worked in the past. It's just ridiculous having to guess how WCG is going to be ran every day, while it's supposed to be going on... Everyone has their own opinion, can't let it fucking change how WCG is going to be ran every day.
And wtf is up with the sudden bitching about maps, as WCG had a new set of maps last year (though some stayed from the previous year); they have the same set of maps for at least 2 years in a row. Acting surprised about the maps and just now complaining about it is ridiculous.Was anyone even complaining last year? I'm not a big fan of some of the maps, but enough is enough, you can't please everyone... play the games... jesus.
it's better they postpone it and have it be better than run it crappily right now just to "stick with it"
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Gameon didn't work -- they haven't given a status update on it -- so obviously a lot hinges on that. I did say "fix gameon.." And "stick with what you have" is a reference to the current makeup of WCG.
Having played the ladder formats, and then playing tournament format last year, the idea of a tourney makes me cringe: e.g., I lost a WCG tourney last year due to them not having a designated server, and my opponent abused that by submitting a walkover (go to a diff server, and submit screen shot). Apparently since it was late in the tourney (later stage), the admin didn't feel it was necessary to show up (all the players but my opponent were there).
I'd rather rely on gameon doing it's job than having to rely on WCG admins as heavily; in ladder format, you have time to look over everything for abuse, but in a tourney -- if you drop the ball for 1 day -- that really has a big effect on the tourney. And since WCG is only once a year, no one wants negligence to decide their fate.
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trust me, the ladder format is terrible... there've been massive problems with it every time they have done it.
and arguably, pretty much all of the people who SHOULD have been at regionals (from the online tournaments) got there, and got to the finals... so it worked out alright.
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I'll take that as a joke. I have qualified for regionals the past two ladder formats (when I started WCG). I'm aware of who has been qualifying, and when you look at who "should" be at regionals, it's not even a comparison worth making; during the ladder formats, there was some abuse -- but it always got handled = moot point. Last years tourney: all of the sudden the "ex-hackers" came to qualify -- and, magically, a lot of them did.. I know I was far from the only one that had a wrongful walkover happen last year. It was a mess.
I'm aware that my point would rely on if there is anti hack or not -- but your point was that the players who "should" be at regionals were there, and that is just silly is you look at the past 3 years.
After the ladder finishes, they review for abuse for quite some time before making anything official; the only time there has been "fishy" stuff happening that may have slipped past the admins is the games between friends that occur during the final hours of the ladder. Ones where like 1 guy already has a qualifying spot locked up, but he is still playing his friend (and losing).
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No matter the format, people will try to abuse... but if a tournament is to be held, they need to at least do an adequate job of handling it. And no, that did not happen last year.
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I think having no lan lat is seriously unfair for every single terran player.
Sure muta micro is gone but mnm and sci vs lurker/ling/scourge is impossible in battle.net latency.
Not to mention tvp where strong reaction times and unit responses have because an interagal part in overcoming the p>T imbalance.
Please let us use iccup for our games like last year!
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On April 16 2009 05:36 AttackZerg wrote:
Not to mention tvp where strong reaction times and unit responses have because an interagal part in overcoming the p>T imbalance.
I'm going to stop you right there
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The non lan lat issue is deff something that should be resolved if possible. Not only is Terran at a bigger disadv, but a lot of people probably are not familiar with playing on non lan anymore (I'm not at least), making it even harder to play. I think everyone can agree on that it would be nicer to play on lan settings than otherwise, so that really is something that should be addressed.
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On April 16 2009 06:06 tonight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2009 05:36 AttackZerg wrote:
Not to mention tvp where strong reaction times and unit responses have because an interagal part in overcoming the p>T imbalance. I'm going to stop you right there
oh of course you are
Why can't WCG just be run on the iccup servers? EVERYONE that is going to qualify uses iccup rather than bnet
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Just to clarify for everyone,
ICCUP is considered a direct competitor of GamOn/WCGZone.
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On April 16 2009 11:13 Laurent wrote:
Just to clarify for everyone,
ICCUP is considered a direct competitor of GamOn/WCGZone.
But ICCup is actually good Generally the best competitor is the one selected by the community when given the choice
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On April 16 2009 11:13 Laurent wrote:
Just to clarify for everyone,
ICCUP is considered a direct competitor of GamOn/WCGZone.
what?
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I think iCCup keeps people actually playing bw. I'd say 80% of gamers now hang out on iccup when they go to bnet
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On April 16 2009 11:13 Laurent wrote:
Just to clarify for everyone,
ICCUP is considered a direct competitor of GamOn/WCGZone.
If WCG thinks this then why don't they give up and disband?
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On April 16 2009 11:13 Laurent wrote:
Just to clarify for everyone,
ICCUP is considered a direct competitor of GamOn/WCGZone.
But no competitive players (that I know of) use GamOn/WCGZone for their laddering needs. ICCUP works and it's what people use. I'm sure ICCUP has 1000x the users. I know it's too late now but it's too bad WCG and ICCUP couldn't work something out in terms of advertising and sponsorships. I mean ideally WCG will still use ICCUP regardless for the sake of the BW players ease and the fact that ICCUP is proven and reliable, although I'm not sure if that will happen
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Well, if they view iccup as a competitor, then they need to implement lan lat. Until then, there isn't a reason to even start viewing them as a competitor, as it is a pretty one-sided affair.
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On April 16 2009 11:13 Laurent wrote:
Just to clarify for everyone,
ICCUP is considered a direct competitor of GamOn/WCGZone.
lol!
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
GamOn / WCGZone are NOT competitors with ICCUP because Gamon and WCGZone are used specifically once a year for a single event while ICCUP runs year long and has a completely separate purpose/goal than WCG's "ladders."
Laurent
If they were really competitors than WCG would have implemented a LAN Latency. Not having that and calling yourself a competitor is like fielding a coed childrens soccer team against the nation of Spain.
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On April 16 2009 11:30 Louder wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2009 11:13 Laurent wrote:
Just to clarify for everyone,
ICCUP is considered a direct competitor of GamOn/WCGZone.
But ICCup is actually good
Well said, good sir!
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United States4991 Posts
On April 16 2009 11:13 Laurent wrote:
Just to clarify for everyone,
ICCUP is considered a direct competitor of GamOn/WCGZone.
I would've understood if you guys said you can't use it because Blizzard doesn't want an organization like WCG to use a 3rd party server. But a direct competitor? lol.
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On April 16 2009 14:10 {88}iNcontroL wrote:GamOn / WCGZone are NOT competitors with ICCUP because Gamon and WCGZone are used specifically once a year for a single event while ICCUP runs year long and has a completely separate purpose/goal than WCG's "ladders." Laurent If they were really competitors than WCG would have implemented a LAN Latency. Not having that and calling yourself a competitor is like fielding a coed childrens soccer team against the nation of Spain.
THIS......
LAN LATENCY IS A MUST...
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I have played in WCG competitions since 2001, been to 7 national finals, been invited to the grand finals 3 times.
and WCG USA is getting worse and worse every year.
allow me to state simple musts for this competition:
1) lan latency
2) an organized website (note that right now, when you enter "west" registration for starcraft, you actually sign up for the EAST tournaments.)
3) an up to date anti-hack launcher that runs cleanly (GamOn crashes regularly)
4) an efficient laddering/rating system
5) clear, CONSISTENT posts of what the maps are (more modern maps are desirable)
Laurent, if these 5 are not addressed, WCG USA is simply not a competitive tournament. The current state of WCG USA is an undeniable insult to the competitive community.
get it fixed
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On April 16 2009 14:10 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Not having that and calling yourself a competitor is like fielding a coed childrens soccer team against the nation of Spain.
I loled.
But yeah, WCG USA consistently goes down hill and it's getting worse and worse. Please fix it before it's completely abandoned.
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honestly i'm getting incredibly upset and angry. the competitive gaming community has SUCH passion and WCG half asses it every time
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I dont understand why WCG doesnt just have the gaming community help/staff WCG usa.
Seems the obvious solution. There are plenty of members,even on TL alone that would be willing to go work behind the scenes and/or go to the events for very very little compensation as long as too much wasn't asked of any one person.
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Last year, WCG emailed me slog, lastgosu and a random player who wasn't very good for our tournament final. It was the final tournament for our region and we were the top 4 players. The email said it was going to take place at like 2:00pm EST. Me slog and lastgosu showed up at 2:00pm EST only to find out that the random player had tooken a w/o by showing up 1 hour early. The referee said oh well sence you're here early I'll just give you the win. WCG is being run by fools who want it to end quickly.
get it fixed +1
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On April 16 2009 11:13 Laurent wrote:
Just to clarify for everyone,
ICCUP is considered a direct competitor of GamOn/WCGZone.
lul wut? if so its np for us )
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On April 16 2009 14:46 Day[9] wrote:
I have played in WCG competitions since 2001, been to 7 national finals, been invited to the grand finals 3 times.
and WCG USA is getting worse and worse every year.
allow me to state simple musts for this competition:
1) lan latency
2) an organized website (note that right now, when you enter "west" registration for starcraft, you actually sign up for the EAST tournaments.)
3) an up to date anti-hack launcher that runs cleanly (GamOn crashes regularly)
4) an efficient laddering/rating system
5) clear, CONSISTENT posts of what the maps are (more modern maps are desirable)
Laurent, if these 5 are not addressed, WCG USA is simply not a competitive tournament. The current state of WCG USA is an undeniable insult to the competitive community.
get it fixed
Amen
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I really hope something productive comes out of all of this.
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On April 16 2009 14:46 Day[9] wrote:
I have played in WCG competitions since 2001, been to 7 national finals, been invited to the grand finals 3 times.
and WCG USA is getting worse and worse every year.
allow me to state simple musts for this competition:
1) lan latency
2) an organized website (note that right now, when you enter "west" registration for starcraft, you actually sign up for the EAST tournaments.)
3) an up to date anti-hack launcher that runs cleanly (GamOn crashes regularly)
4) an efficient laddering/rating system
5) clear, CONSISTENT posts of what the maps are (more modern maps are desirable)
Laurent, if these 5 are not addressed, WCG USA is simply not a competitive tournament. The current state of WCG USA is an undeniable insult to the competitive community.
get it fixed
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On April 16 2009 11:13 Laurent wrote:
Just to clarify for everyone,
ICCUP is considered a direct competitor of GamOn/WCGZone.
Best quote ever.
This really made my day. At first I intended to explain to dear Mr. Laurent how stupid this is. Then I realised that it would be the same as explaining a good joke to someone who just didn't get it, it would just ruin it all.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
So I just got a new email saying we can go ahead and re register for 1 tourney.. it is now tourney format and not ladder.
Is it true we can only sign up for 1 at a time now? I couldn't find more links to others.. so we just gonna sign up 1 at a time?
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So where do you actually sign up for the tourney? And did they tell you what time this one will play at?
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Geoff - WCG Korea believes that ICCUP is a direct competitor. And for WCG thats all that matters to them. Korea is aware of Lan Latency being necessary but feels there are more pressing issues with GamOn that need to be addressed first.
Sean - WCG USA is only responsible for us.wcg.com - the rest of your complaints need to be directed towards WCG Korea. Ive said it over and over - any Q&A you submit on the WCGZone goes straight to the people who are making all the decisions that all of you dont like.
Lord_of_Chaos - your comment was pointless. I was simply stating why WCG Korea says that Gamon is a recquirement versus the option of using ICCUP.
All other WCG qualifiers have these same rules implemented on them. But no other WCG country has as long of a qualifier stage than the US. Most other WCG countries only do one big final event.
We have decided to change the format of the qualifiers to a bracket style instead of a ladder because of all of your complaints. The email is letting you know to resign up for qualifier #1 if you want to participate in it. You can sign up for as many qualifiers as you like.
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Thanks for the update. I think this tournament format is better than the ladder one. I'd rather play it all in one sitting on a weekend or something though but w/e. I think it's pretty hard for most people to be free every single night of the week Mon-Fri to play their one bo3.
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actually almost all big countries have qualifying events leading up to the national finals and they never seem to have near as many problems as wcg usa, ive never even heard them talk about gamon. some countries have offline qualifiers, some have online tournaments, some ladders, all different formats and rules and whatnot, all set by the national organizations. if wcg korea is so powerful that you have to bow down to them in the face of all these obvious problems, how come theres not more regularity among all the other wcgs? they just happen to make wcg usa their bitch and let everyone else do whatever they want?
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WCG USA is run by ICM , who happens to be the same company that runs Korea.
No other country has an ICM branch. All other countries are run by SP's.
SP's are not recquired to follow the rules to the letter.
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laurent,
I appreciate that you are spending the time to understand the points and attempt to amend some of the series problems.
What exactly can 'we' meaning players who are already signed up for tournament that are upcomming due to fix these main points.
Lan latency. Iccup isn't lan latency, chaos launcher is. Chaos launcher works on (I believe) every machine except mac and was made independent of any possible competitor to wcg korea. Is this a symantical argument of using gameon versus a reliable program that provides the needed antihack AND lanlatency features.
Every other point can be addressed later. What steps can I, we do, to ensure fair play on the most competetive footing (lan latency).
Please direct our attention exactly where it needs to be. An organized and polite movement has a much higher chance of achieving real results.
Thank you,
Attackzerg (wcg id iamazerguser)
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AttackZerg,
You should submit support questions on the WCGZone site. It is run by Korea and all answer are given by Korea. If they see that everyone is complaining, then you would think that they would make an adjustment to their rule of GamOn only, or they would add Lan Latency immediately.
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I don't see how you can change it to a tournament format without having a poll or something. People who want a ladder have no reason to bitch. People who want a tourney do; I mean, if it was tourney format to begin with, you would prob have the same amount, if not more, bitching about it being tourney format...
If you're just looking for something to do, do something that isn't counter productive. People bitched about the maps, but 3 or so of the current wcg maps were put into the poll, and wouldn't you know, they all got a lot of votes...
Using a small sample size to determine big things just seems like you want to justify having w/e position you have.
Instead of changing things that have yet to be determined what the majority wants, focus on things you know the majority wants, or find out first...
How about lan lat? I feel like a fool for playing WCG.
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Thank you.
I am on it. Everybody else please do the same!
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I'm registered on wcgzone.com, wcg.com, and us.wcg.com but I never receive the emails you guys all get. What site are they sent through?
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On April 17 2009 13:33 Laurent wrote:
AttackZerg,
You should submit support questions on the WCGZone site. It is run by Korea and all answer are given by Korea. If they see that everyone is complaining, then you would think that they would make an adjustment to their rule of GamOn only, or they would add Lan Latency immediately.
why would they listen to a bunch of random people off the site more than they would listen to you guys?
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If I ordered a burger and flipped out and said it was wrong and the guy behind the counter said "Thats what you ordered' and I called over the manager who is he going to side with?
I worked at two fast food joints and the answer was always 'the customer'.
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If you have half the qualifiers be tourney format, and the other half be ladder format (alternate each qualifier), and you implement lan lat -- then I think any sensible person would be happy with that. And for the following year(s), if you wanted to only do it one way, you would have a more accurate gauge of what the majority of the community wants..
The tournament format didn't work for me last year, though maybe things would be different this year. Maybe the ladder wouldn't run smoothly this year.
Anyways, just my 2 cents.
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On April 17 2009 13:52 AttackZerg wrote:
If I ordered a burger and flipped out and said it was wrong and the guy behind the counter said "Thats what you ordered' and I called over the manager who is he going to side with?
I worked at two fast food joints and the answer was always 'the customer'.
but we arent disagreeing. the admins go to them and say 'all the customers want lan latency' and they blow it off, not too optimistic that a few people writing in on their site is gonna change much.
and the fast food join operates on the desire to make people happy so they spend more money. wcg doesnt seem all that concerned with the satisfaction of the players.
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On April 17 2009 13:56 MachineHead wrote:
If you have half the qualifiers be tourney format, and the other half be ladder format (alternate each qualifier), and you implement lan lat -- then I think any sensible person would be happy with that. And for the following year(s), if you wanted to only do it one way, you would have a more accurate gauge of what the majority of the community wants..
The tournament format didn't work for me last year, though maybe things would be different this year. Maybe the ladder wouldn't run smoothly this year.
Anyways, just my 2 cents.
you're pretty much the only person who's really bitching about the format.
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I just found out it was tourney format like a hour ago? I bet chosen is really looking forward to having to wonder if he is going to have a fair shot at qualifying this year. Unless you have found out first hand that you can't expect a fairly ran tourney, then there is not a lot of reason to complain about a tourney format that hasn't even been announced....
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given the amount of shitheads amongst the 3rd tier american players a ladder is really not a good option at all, especially since they removed the offline qualifiers completely (right? i think i heard that somewhere)
do you really want spades and lastshadow and game taking up spots in the national finals and then not showing cuz they all freewinned and hacked their way through a ladder?
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It's a good point. But my point has been that the ladder format allows you more time to look for abuse. For instance, in a tourney format, someone could have their friend play their games for them, and before you even know it, you are out of luck. Not saying that will happen, simply an example that the more time you have to analyze, then the better off you will be.
Your message kinda brings up the question of "do you ban known to be recent hackers/cheaters?" Whether it is viable or right or not, I don't know. But, it prob should be up for debate at least.
I think if you do it half and half (format wise), and you give admins a heads up on who to "watch out for," it will work out.
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what?
that did happen, and people got caught for it. replays and hotkey analysis. with proper admins that kind of thing is basically impossible in a tournament. no matter how well you set up the rules and who you have in charge theres always gonna be the potential for abuse on a ladder, and with shitty software like gamon as the only antihack theres no guarantee there either.
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exactly. ya Chosen did get gayed, and some people did in the tournament style, but it's MUCH better than the ladder for all the reasons I said before and IdrA is saying (probably better) now.
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What I'm saying is, by the time that person gets caught, you have already loss. It's not like they are just going to give you a qualifying spot, unless it happened in the final 4 or 2.
I don't look at bw chart after my games, I don't know USA gamers hotkeys... I don't know why the admin would either. Last year, the only person who viewed the replays were the admin(s) (if they even watched...).
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and chosen didnt even get cheated by the format, just by bad admins.
the only real problem with a tournament style is if players are seeded poorly and 2 people who deserve to advance meet before the double elim stage
(which again could be solved by competent admins. why is incontrol not running this?)
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Idra,
Its basically more power in numbers. Right now its 2 people telling them to fix all this shit. If its 100 more people telling them, maybe they'll finally believe the 2 people.
You tell InControl to not play in any of the qualifiers, and give up being a player, then by all means I'll invite him to the staff. Its called conflict of interest. No matter how much you try to defend him, noone in their right mind is going to allow any participant of an event to admin the same event.
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On April 17 2009 14:40 MachineHead wrote:
What I'm saying is, by the time that person gets caught, you have already loss. It's not like they are just going to give you a qualifying spot, unless it happened in the final 4 or 2.
I don't look at bw chart after my games, I don't know USA gamers hotkeys... I don't know why the admin would either. Last year, the only person who viewed the replays were the admin(s) (if they even watched...).
you can have someone play for you on a ladder too, if you cant recognize a smurf or hotkey signatures you're not gonna catch someone whether you have 1 or 50 replays to look at.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I sent another email to my contact asking for lan latency (as well as 1k other words describing the urgency)
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On April 17 2009 14:41 Laurent wrote:
Idra,
Its basically more power in numbers. Right now its 2 people telling them to fix all this shit. If its 100 more people telling them, maybe they'll finally believe the 2 people.
You tell InControl to not play in any of the qualifiers, and give up being a player, then by all means I'll invite him to the staff. Its called conflict of interest. No matter how much you try to defend him, noone in their right mind is going to allow any participant of an event to admin the same event.
but those 2 people are the people in charge, and they represent the other 100. if the organization is disregarding them theres something seriously wrong. why cant you just blow them off and run the tournament yourself and tell them 'ok these people won'? in the end thats all that matters anyway.
artosis plays in half the scforall events he admins and theyre basically the smoothest run things foreign sc has seen in forever.
'invite him to staff' he wouldnt be the only one with power. just use common sense. have another staff member handle any decision that directly applies to him.
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You rock geoff.
Tomarrow I'll spend some time with spell check and try to articulate myself well working the other angle !
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Geoff - sending your emails isnt going to make it go any faster. I sent emails to korea a few days ago. I'll get a response just as fast as anyone else.
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On April 17 2009 14:42 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2009 14:40 MachineHead wrote:
What I'm saying is, by the time that person gets caught, you have already loss. It's not like they are just going to give you a qualifying spot, unless it happened in the final 4 or 2.
I don't look at bw chart after my games, I don't know USA gamers hotkeys... I don't know why the admin would either. Last year, the only person who viewed the replays were the admin(s) (if they even watched...). you can have someone play for you on a ladder too, if you cant recognize a smurf or hotkey signatures you're not gonna catch someone whether you have 1 or 50 replays to look at.
It's theoretical, but let's assume some noob had someone else play for them. The way I see it is that there are 2 more ways that person could be found out in a ladder than he would in a tourney. Sure, I don't know the hotkeys, but it is a ladder, so he will be playing everyone else, so someone else could easily see that. Or, that information simply gets leaked out, and that person gets removed from the ladder -- no damage done.
What it boils down to: In a ladder, even if someone abuses, if someone notices it -- they won't have an effect on the tournament. In a tourney -- if someone abuses and the admins don't resolve the situation immediately, then the tournament will be effected, whether abuse eventually becomes apparent or not.
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I got a response from Korea about Lan Latency
They are working on adding lan latency right now, but they are unsure of when they will be able to implement it. Also the reason the maps have been stagnant is because Blizzard wont add any new maps to battle.net for WCG.
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but does it actually change anything to play in the wcg game mode?
just change the launcher to have it recognize a different game mode
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Laurent I actually had a text conversation/email conversation WITH 2 people we both know the day I had that MSN conversation with you and got no reply(from you) while I got immediate responses->policy changes from the 2 men.. please don't tell me I don't get results faster. As far as we are concerned I am the only one getting results. I am glad to hear you are emailing now but making a post to simply state that my attempts are futile is only going to bring you public shame.. er more of that.
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why dont you ask those 2 men, who did the leg work to get your problems solved......
I never give an answer in these situations before actually receiving one.
And i saw both your text and email conversations. Im well aware of what you discussed. And believe me, you are the one in for some shame.
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I'm not playing in any of the qualifiers, hire me. problem solved >.>
I'll even work for pennies a day
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On April 17 2009 15:07 Laurent wrote:
why dont you ask those 2 men, who did the leg work to get your problems solved......
I never give an answer in these situations before actually receiving one.
And i saw both your text and email conversations. Im well aware of what you discussed. And believe me, you are the one in for some shame.
laurent? You really wanna go down this road? I'm not under any fucking contract by wcg in regard to this tourney. It isn't my job to not suck ass like you have. No fucking shit you did the leg work that is your job.. the one you wouldn't do until I had to go around you and speak to some people who would get your ass moving.
God damn you infuriate me. You literally do a shitty job.. I mean you absolutely responded to each of my complaints with "send an email on the gamon website" or "korea makes the decisions, I am powerless" which is bullshit. You COULD have said "I will see to it that these complaints reach the right people" or HELL heres a novel concept you coulda had some backbone and answered the shit from your own brain.. that'd be a blast wouldn't it.
I tried to play nice Laurent but the passive aggressive bullshit in your last message has started a shit storm. I hope to God you are really secure with what you have done thus far.
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On April 17 2009 15:07 Laurent wrote:
believe me, you are the one in for some shame.
gg !!!! ROFL
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
and if you truly read those emails/text messages you'd know I clearly state each time "he is a great guy, he just didn't handle this correctly" which is the exact kind of constructive criticism WCG employees NEED to hear when shit like this happens
"believe me you are the one to be put to shame"
What is that childish bullshit? You are the professional here laurent.. act like it.
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Noone got my ass moving , I did it on my own. And you didn't go around anyone. You claimed right after US Finals last year that you would change the world. You basically told everyone that WCG USA was in your back pocket. I havent seen one thing you said was going to happen, actually happen. The difference is , I tell people the truth, how things are. I dont predict the future nor do I attempt to. You think you know everything, but you barely even know whats on the top layer. Actually you are supposed to be the professional , according to you I'm just doing what a warm body would do. Dont forget you are the one saying your going to shame me some more.
Guess what, I responded with the truth. Which is how this should be handled.
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hmmm... none of this is helping me get lan lat on 5/18 when I'm going to be putting my heart into qualifying for the first time since there was an offline regional in 03. I care about THAT.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On April 17 2009 15:34 Laurent wrote:
Noone got my ass moving , I did it on my own. And you didn't go around anyone. You claimed right after US Finals last year that you would change the world. You basically told everyone that WCG USA was in your back pocket. I havent seen one thing you said was going to happen, actually happen. The difference is , I tell people the truth, how things are. I dont predict the future nor do I attempt to. You think you know everything, but you barely even know whats on the top layer. I'm just doing what a warm body would do, just like you stated right?
Guess what, I responded with the truth. Which is how this should be handled.
Oh I see it laurent. You hate me cause I have an optimistic outlook for wcg. I think shit can change. I think people can do things differently. Guess what has changed? The maps. I got them to change the maps. Guess what else has changed? According to your email they are trying to get lan latency in there.. did you mention shit about maps? lan latency? I bet you had NO idea about these things prior to me discussing them.
As far as a bw player goes I do "have wcg in my back pocket" if that means I have direct communication/relationships with the people who make decisions. I am trying to improve something that is really important to this community. Your terrible fucking attitude (you were the guy nay-saying my thread that was trying to raise ideas for improvement -- you are the guy IN THIS THREAD acting ignorant as all hell) is doing nobody any good.
Calling you a warm body was evidently a complement. Making passive aggressive threats to a person who is literally ONLY TRYING TO DO SOME GOOD is gonna get you nowhere bucko. Put your pride where the sun don't shine and maybe you can help this community as oppose to trying this "I am the voice of truth" crap.. we don't buy into the doom and gloom.
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On April 17 2009 15:34 Laurent wrote:
Noone got my ass moving , I did it on my own. And you didn't go around anyone. You claimed right after US Finals last year that you would change the world. You basically told everyone that WCG USA was in your back pocket. I havent seen one thing you said was going to happen, actually happen. The difference is , I tell people the truth, how things are. I dont predict the future nor do I attempt to. You think you know everything, but you barely even know whats on the top layer. Actually you are supposed to be the professional , according to you I'm just doing what a warm body would do. Dont forget you are the one saying your going to shame me some more.
Guess what, I responded with the truth. Which is how this should be handled.
From what I've seen, iNc has said he knows a lot of the people involved in WCG, so he could possibly talk to them and resolve some of the problems that make WCG USA a pile of shit each year.
You have said you can't do anything about the fact that it's a pile of shit because it's ran by WCG Korea. Why are you even here?
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I dont hate you, I hate how you BOAST about all your contacts and how you are going to make everything better.
Yea you are right, you are optimistic, and im just being a realist. Im not claiming that either is the right way to handle it. But I believe that telling people the truth , and being happily surprised when something does change is better than telling people that things are going to change and playing the waiting game , only making people more frustrated w. no results.
You did take the initiative and polled for the maps, and thats great, but the maps that won your poll that werent originally on the list, havent been changed.
You just dont get that the whole point of coming here was to make sure peoples questions got answered and that they got truthful answers of whats actually going on.
And please, clarify, that you made the threats to shame me first. I chose to fire back.
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This can only get better  
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On April 17 2009 16:00 Laurent wrote:
I dont hate you, I hate how you BOAST about all your contacts and how you are going to make everything better.
Yea you are right, you are optimistic, and im just being a realist. Im not claiming that either is the right way to handle it. But I believe that telling people the truth , and being happily surprised when something does change is better than telling people that things are going to change and playing the waiting game , only making people more frustrated w. no results.
You did take the initiative and polled for the maps, and thats great, but the maps that won your poll that werent originally on the list, havent been changed.
You just dont get that the whole point of coming here was to make sure peoples questions got answered and that they got truthful answers of whats actually going on.
And please, clarify, that you made the threats to shame me first. I chose to fire back.
If you could read as well as you could nay-say the organization you work for you'd be able to comprehend what I actually said which was "You are going to shame yourself"
That has nothing to do with ME shaming YOU like you impossibly implied you'd do to me in your post.
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On April 17 2009 14:56 Laurent wrote:
I got a response from Korea about Lan Latency
They are working on adding lan latency right now, but they are unsure of when they will be able to implement it. Also the reason the maps have been stagnant is because Blizzard wont add any new maps to battle.net for WCG.
Maps don't need to be added to battle.net. Players can simply download maps and create them on any server, including all battle.net servers
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what? since when does wcg hire tools
edit: Shit, they always have.
Incontrol forget about it, wcg has never catered to the needs of bw gamers.
It's 2009, why now
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Valhalla18444 Posts
impementing lan latency is the easiest thing in the world: list chaoslauncher as a requirement, it is completely safe, widely used, and available for free. hell, put a link to download it on the WCG site. MasterOfChaos is staff here at TL (but has been contributing for ages before joining us) and I'm sure he wouldn't mind.
Maps don't need to be hosted by battle.net. Provide a zipped pack of official WCG maps and have them available for download. Enforce rules that are already in place stating WCG games must be played on these official maps.
laurent - don't you think you are obligated to maintain professionalism here? incontrol isn't working for your organization, he's just a player expressing his opinions on our forum. YOU are an official representative, and you're showing a distinct lack of class that is easily mistaken for apathy about the people you are supposed to be accomodating.
It saddens me as a proponent of eSports that we lack for a substantial alternative to WCG, given the care put into its organization. A little research would go a long way.
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Is being a WCG admin/referee a full-time job? If so, I don't know what the hell this guy is doing with his time. How hard is it to understand how battle.net and maps work? This guy is supposed to work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, and he can't get shit done?
Sorry, but when just a few TL staff members can organize TSL (arguably the most successful non-Korean league) without compensation and other real full-time life obligations, it makes this guy look like a total dimwit. I mean honestly, "I have to wait for a response"? So what, you just sit there and twiddle your thumbs until someone gives you directions?
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jesus, what a riot of a megapost.
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Steve,
Incontrol stated earlier in this post that he does work for WCG as a contractor and replay reviewer.
Yea you're right i crossed the line in my frustration and I apologize for lashing out at Geoff. I am not being apathetic and have been trying to help, with communication to the higher ups and getting things changed, but this is a long battle that has been fought for many years with no real resolution in sight.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?
quote me where I say I work for wcg as a "contractor" and "replay reviewer"
WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?
PS: I just reread my thread "WCG: Evolution" as that was my other big post in regard to WCG and I state that they need to compile offline/online replays and host them on the website for more hits/better coverage.. but that HARDLY makes me claiming to be a "replay reviewer" contracted by wcg.
Dude.. you are flat out LYING or propagating misinformation without even doing minimal research. This is a forum.. if I said it you can quote it. If you are inventing this (which you are) you are doing it in a ludicrously bad way.. we ALL can see it
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Sorry , i lied it wasnt in this post, it was in the other WCG USA Post. I misspoke, you said consultant, not contractor.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=90646
"correct
BUT I SHOULD GET THIS OUT THERE
I am consulting for wcg and if any hacking/abusing goes on they have told me they will go with my word 100%.. no bullshit this year guys. You will be banned and black balled.
This doesn't mean dino/LS are banned.. they have proven they can play legit and will be given a chance just like anyone else. But if any fishy shit goes on I will be the go-to guy this year and no language barrier, stupid ass rule or complaining email to paul brewer will save you this time."
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On April 17 2009 17:21 Laurent wrote:
Incontrol stated earlier in this post that he does work for WCG as a contractor and replay reviewer.
You're wrong, but does it really matter? Working with is not the same as working for.
I can't believe you're dragging this out. I would think after you read the first reply when you got off topic with the clear abundance of drama you'd realize that maybe you should go back to being the calm, concise, straight to the point type of guy you started out as in this thread.
Incompetence in organization is something you can pass blame to WCG Korea, but you can't pass blame for your unprofessionalism on a public forum. If you're not going to do anything then don't, but stop wasting your time/energy/resources arguing semantics on the forums so I can go back to pretending like you give a fuck.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On April 17 2009 17:21 Laurent wrote:
Steve,
Incontrol stated earlier in this post that he does work for WCG as a contractor and replay reviewer.
Yea you're right i crossed the line in my frustration and I apologize for lashing out at Geoff. I am not being apathetic and have been trying to help, with communication to the higher ups and getting things changed, but this is a long battle that has been fought for many years with no real resolution in sight.
My suggestion to you is to outline a clear plan and simply ask for approval. I know how the corporate world works (I'm deeply entrenched in it myself), so I understand the troubles you're having. It's always better to provide solutions than to ask for them.
1) Enforce the use of Chaoslauncher, a free, wide-spread program that enables LAN latency on battle.net. We can host the download here if your superiors are picky enough about cost to worry about that part of it.
2) Select maps chosen by the players (such as in the poll Geoff created - this sample includes both players and spectators, providing a view of what the community as a whole wants to see. All the maps proposed by Geoff will be accepted by the players without a fuss). If necessary I can send a full pack of these maps to you so you don't have to go digging. We have mapmakers here that will gladly give them the aesthetic updates necessary for use in WCG official play for free. We're a dedicated community that is entirely at your disposal if you are trying to make our experience with the game better.
3) Enforce a ruleset that is current and up-to-date. Geoff or anyone else well-established in this community can help you with this, quickly and entirely willingly. Make sure your referees (both offline and on) are well-versed in these rules so you avoid debacles like games disconnecting and a win being assigned based on a higher point total or something equally irrelevant.
Put these together in a document and send them to your boss for approval, you will get much better results. If you're already doing this, well, that's great.
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I am going to try to apply pressure with the contacts I have made thus far. In the meantime before monday I want to put up a video explaining the issues and explaining where people can contact WCG and express their dissatisfaction.
Incontrol: can you provide me a direction to flow this traffic?
FakeSteve I am going to borrow your listing. Hopefully with an iterated unified message we can shake things up a bit.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
Yeah, in the end I understand the corporate limits Laurent is working within, and they can't be held against him. As a community we should expect ourselves to put forth the effort to help fix this sort of thing.
Maybe the argument between Laurent and incontrol is a cleverly woven web of fabrication designed to fool us into getting off our asses O_O
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
diggity: I really don't know actually. I just email people directly but that isn't for the public. Laurent has been saying there is a complaint section on the website.. I haven't looked but it should be fairly present. Laurent also says they really do listen there.. so maybe that will do something.
Laurent: Saying I "consult" is COMPLETELY different from saying I am "contracted." One implies what I do, which is offer advice and give them ideas.. the other is a paid circumstance where I provide a service. I am not paid. I never claimed to be. You were wrong.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
Oh my god what have I missed? It's too late for me to nerdskull crush, looks like thats already been done by day and incontrol
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
I'll inform everyone of the problem with WCG though. Simply put; theres not enough money in WCG USA or to be had (yet). When theres no money in it theres no real trueinterest from the people operating it which means the capable, intelligent, experienced people that WCG USA needs just don't get hired.
I think once SC2 comes out with a lot of help from Blizzard stuff like this will definitely start to change.
But for now, we must deal with these idiots.
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On April 17 2009 18:08 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
diggity: I really don't know actually. I just email people directly but that isn't for the public. Laurent has been saying there is a complaint section on the website.. I haven't looked but it should be fairly present. Laurent also says they really do listen there.. so maybe that will do something.
Laurent: Saying I "consult" is COMPLETELY different from saying I am "contracted." One implies what I do, which is offer advice and give them ideas.. the other is a paid circumstance where I provide a service. I am not paid. I never claimed to be. You were wrong.
incontrol you are aware that to people in professional fields/real life being a consultant does NOT mean you give free advice and ideas, right?
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On April 17 2009 19:05 NoobsOfWrath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2009 18:08 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
diggity: I really don't know actually. I just email people directly but that isn't for the public. Laurent has been saying there is a complaint section on the website.. I haven't looked but it should be fairly present. Laurent also says they really do listen there.. so maybe that will do something.
Laurent: Saying I "consult" is COMPLETELY different from saying I am "contracted." One implies what I do, which is offer advice and give them ideas.. the other is a paid circumstance where I provide a service. I am not paid. I never claimed to be. You were wrong. incontrol you are aware that to people in professional fields/real life being a consultant does NOT mean you give free advice and ideas, right?
a consultant assesses a situation and provides feedback or insight on how to do said situation better, more efficient, etc. sometimes for a nominal fee. let's not get into semantics here.
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Boycotting WCG won't do anything, if anything, that will just make them less interested because USA players will do so poorly and they will think USA doesnt need a spot for BW. Everyones bitching and complaining, and rightfully so, but no one is doing anything about it. That is why I will throw my participating this year to somehow salvage this years WCG and help it.
Ok, I have sent a PM to laurent and I will try and help out WCG as much as humanly possible. I have not been able to be active due to a broken computer and my skill is probably not up to par for me to qualify for an event so I will gladly sit out this year to help make WCG not a total mess. I have competed in WCG the past four years and saw its horrible track record. I am fairly in tune with the community and have seen Starcraft from all angles and aspects. I am a member of ytech (NrG), have been in the west clan Neo.G, and even seen the depths of hell as a member of X17. I actually visited the wcg finals last year and had a blast meeting some cool people as well as learning a few things and since my skill and computer will not let me participate, I will try to help the tournament. Inc if theirs any word you can put it to help me expidite this process and help me help bridge the gap between wcg usa and its players asap let me know. I will do anything needed to help the community and make wcg anticipated for once instead of dreaded. I PMed laurent, sent WCG an email directly and complained on their website so if anyone else can point me in the direction to start putting this train back on tracks let me know, thanks.
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United States42676 Posts
On April 17 2009 14:56 Laurent wrote:
Also the reason the maps have been stagnant is because Blizzard wont add any new maps to battle.net for WCG.
This quote pretty much sums up the problems as far as I can see. The guy has clearly never played Starcraft. Normally I'd just pity him rather than hold it against him but if this is the guy making the rules then we kind of have a problem.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
as expected I got emails back this morning..
They really do care and really want to be what we want them to be. We just need to understand WCG has to cater to a lot of bullcrap and we need to work with them in order to get an agreeable resolution.
They are really pursuing the lan latency issue amongst other things.
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so what does this laurent guy do? send emails to higer ups to fix problems because he can't do anything by himself? How is he going to ref the ladder if he thinks blizzard has to release maps in order to be hosted on b.net?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
He sends emails, usually is online during the tourney/ladder itself and does other things. He is also the ref at the actual lan running the tourney as well.
He does ok for a guy who doesn't know anything about this game (not really his fault)
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So wcg usa hired someone who doesn't know anything about starcraft to be their starcraft guy?
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Tbh i don't get why wcg/eswc/any big tourny doesn't do it's best to set it up in cooperation with the major communitys, why does this even have to be "pushed" is beyond me.
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I would just like to say if any wcg admins read this.
Everything fakesteve said I 100% endorse.
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On April 18 2009 00:19 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
They are really pursuing the lan latency issue amongst other things.
Are they looking to make it possible with gameon or allow chaos or what exactly did that say about this pursuit?
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I really wouldn't think it would be hard for WCG to hire someone with basic know how of the game. I think it'd make life a lot simpler.
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On April 18 2009 03:14 tonight wrote:
I really wouldn't think it would be hard for WCG to hire someone with basic know how of the game. I think it'd make life a lot simpler.
Cheaper to use one of their other division ref's to overlook this than hire a totally different person.
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lol @ this thread.
I was saying this shit in 03 and no one gave a fuck. FUCK YOU JOE MOSS IM COMING FOR YOU WHEN I SEE YOU BITCH.
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Korea (South)11579 Posts
i won something in that lottery in 04 i think, a keyboard or headphones or something, still haven't gotten it from WCG. I agree, FUCK YOU JOE MOSS.
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On April 18 2009 03:46 CaucasianAsian wrote:
i won something in that lottery in 04 i think, a keyboard or headphones or something, still haven't gotten it from WCG. I agree, FUCK YOU JOE MOSS.
I won a computer and never got it.
FUCK YOU JOE MOSS.
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On April 18 2009 03:46 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2009 03:46 CaucasianAsian wrote:
i won something in that lottery in 04 i think, a keyboard or headphones or something, still haven't gotten it from WCG. I agree, FUCK YOU JOE MOSS. I won a computer and never got it. FUCK YOU JOE MOSS.
lol
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On April 18 2009 00:55 zulu_nation8 wrote:
So wcg usa hired someone who doesn't know anything about starcraft to be their starcraft guy?
Yep. WCG USA fail.
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On April 17 2009 14:56 Laurent wrote:
I got a response from Korea about Lan Latency
They are working on adding lan latency right now, but they are unsure of when they will be able to implement it. Also the reason the maps have been stagnant is because Blizzard wont add any new maps to battle.net for WCG.
lol because lan latency is ready ask masterofchaos xD
and blizzard add maps to bnet ? wtf he is talking bout ?
he must be very **********
^^^^^^^^
i not often can laugh that much ^^
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On April 18 2009 00:32 {88}iNcontroL wrote:He sends emails, usually is online during the tourney/ladder itself and does other things. He is also the ref at the actual lan running the tourney as well. He does ok for a guy who doesn't know anything about this game (not really his fault)
kind of what I thought don't pester him too bad - i know you can snap a man like a twig so it must get tempting
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Honestly, if WCG USA can't satisfy its participants, then its definately not taking away from the idea that almost all BW players think WCG is a joke.
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Its hard for the participants when their country is too big eh? Every match need to be done online and because of that, there are risk of cheating and stuff.
Its sad.
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I reckon the online community at large could do a better job of organising WCG, I think it should be seriously considered, if all the major SC communities, (TL,GG,SC2GG) came together as a show of solidarity and held our own anti-WCG at the same time, it would send out a clear message for WCG as a whole to get their act together.
However, most of us have jobs and real lives that don't consist of organising computer game tourney's
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Once the lan latency problem is fixed, I think a lot of people will be happy. Its necessary, gotta happen.
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And off it goes again this year...
WCG is a joke and allways will be. I sincerely hope some other company starts a new official world championship so this shit can stop.
Even though I'm obviously not american I can't help but feel for you guys. This shit is beyond arrogant towards the players.
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Blizzard has to approve all maps to be hosted in WCG Mode, just like KBK in the past. No need to say im clueless, when this is a little-known fact.
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but the only reason it has to be hosted in wcg mode is so gamon recognizes it right?
so just change gamon to recognize a different game mode
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Yeah last year's wcg, a friend of mine went 1-0 in his match, and then had to postpone it. An admin and his opponent agreed to it, but then his opponent wouldn't respond to him on msn to actually play the game. After some point the brackets were updated saying that my friend had lost. So we faked a replay and he emailed it to an admin, and then they updated the brackets saying my friend had won, just like that.
What I don't understand, is how there are horror stories like about USA WCG every single year. How incompetent do you have to be to make the same mistakes year after year, with feedback from the gamers themselves, with people like Incontrol actively communicating with people high up in wcg. It's amazing really. TSL's huge success alone completely undermines any plausible excuse for this imo.
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Are they seriously going to use this map pool for grand finals?
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On April 19 2009 17:01 Nightmarjoo wrote:
...so we faked a replay and he emailed it to an admin, and then they updated the brackets saying my friend had won, just like that.
lol... wow... if you're telling the truth than WCG has more problems than i realized.
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Or I'm just amazing at copying hotkeys...!
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On April 17 2009 16:44 sMi.SyMPhOnY wrote:
what? since when does wcg hire tools
edit: Shit, they always have.
Incontrol forget about it, wcg has never catered to the needs of bw gamers.
It's 2009, why now
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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I'll inform everyone of the problem with WCG though. Simply put; theres not enough money in WCG USA or to be had (yet). When theres no money in it theres no real trueinterest from the people operating it which means the capable, intelligent, experienced people that WCG USA needs just don't get hired.
I think once SC2 comes out with a lot of help from Blizzard stuff like this will definitely start to change.
But for now, we must deal with these idiots.
Laurent has been and still is one of the best gaming Admins in the world.. Should not just dismiss the situation as a "lack of funds" excuse as if better leadership was willing to work for less (or work for anything at all).
After reading this thread it seems many (including Laurent) are out of place, however next time maybe some of you should set aside the "glory" aspirations and take ownership of the situation and volunteer or apply with WCG.
Best of luck to everyone still taking part in the event.
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On April 21 2009 11:20 rS.Killa wrote:Show nested quote +I'll inform everyone of the problem with WCG though. Simply put; theres not enough money in WCG USA or to be had (yet). When theres no money in it theres no real trueinterest from the people operating it which means the capable, intelligent, experienced people that WCG USA needs just don't get hired.
I think once SC2 comes out with a lot of help from Blizzard stuff like this will definitely start to change.
But for now, we must deal with these idiots. Laurent has been and still is one of the best gaming Admins in the world.. Should not just dismiss the situation as a "lack of funds" excuse as if better leadership was willing to work for less (or work for anything at all). After reading this thread it seems many (including Laurent) are out of place, however next time maybe some of you should set aside the "glory" aspirations and take ownership of the situation and volunteer or apply with WCG. Best of luck to everyone still taking part in the event.
Though you may have read this thread, you didn't read much of the other two threads on this subject.
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United States42676 Posts
On April 19 2009 12:55 Laurent wrote:
Blizzard has to approve all maps to be hosted in WCG Mode, just like KBK in the past. No need to say im clueless, when this is a little-known fact.
Or you could just let people play the games on a selection of standard maps. If you want to get really keen I'm sure you could find a dozen people here to take some icc maps and rename them to WCG, have a bit of WCG related text pop up at the start etc...
The WCGUK admins let us play on whatever maps we thought appropriate provided we all agreed to it. Gameon is obsolete. The Blizzard maps are obsolete. Why is WCGUSA flogging a dead horse when the rest of the world either has the professionalism to update their shit or the wisdom to step back and let the gamers do what they do best?
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Well I have tried to do my best and reach out to both Inc and Laurent to put me in contact with some people who I could speak to and try to rectify this situation and both did not respond sadly. I tried my best to do all I could for WCG and recieved literally 0 feedback so I give up.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I got your message but I am going to be honest: A friend of Dino's administrating for WCG doesn't sound like a keen strategy. I appreciate your willingness to help but I think we have it (as much as possible) under control.
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We will see how this works out, hope it will go well .
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On April 21 2009 13:50 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I got your message but I am going to be honest: A friend of Dino's administrating for WCG doesn't sound like a keen strategy. I appreciate your willingness to help but I think we have it (as much as possible) under control.
Don't you mean : INcontrol at the end...
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As of right now, WCGZONE GamOn Launcher has been updated to include automatic support for LAN Latency. Currently, it makes all games default to LAN Latency (L=2)
Please test it and let us know how well it works on your system. and if there are any features that we should include, such as the variable Latency. (making room name ending with _L3 gives Latency 3).
If you already have WCGZONE GamOn, just start it and it will automatically update. If you do not have the client, you can download it at http://file.wcgzone.com/WCGZoneInst_080602a.exe.
Thanks!
Sang Hong
World Cyber Games / Manager of Contents Development
sanger at wcg dot com
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I have been boycotting WCG since 2005.
It's clear the people in charge at WCG do not intend to think beyond "if we hold this video game thing, nerds will come, and we can cash in on advertising." They don't give a fuck about the integrity of the tournament or who wins.
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Your timing is a bit off, seeing as how Sang Hong came to our website to let us know of the lan latency update. They really do care.
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On April 21 2009 13:50 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I got your message but I am going to be honest: A friend of Dino's administrating for WCG doesn't sound like a keen strategy. I appreciate your willingness to help but I think we have it (as much as possible) under control.
if u need any help let me kno geoff i'll help out
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So a new email was released.
WCG Competitor,
The Starcraft: Broodwar WCG Online Qualifier East Tournament #1 begins tomorrow (4/27) at 7PM CDT. Your event will be played as a tournament. You can view the tournament bracket at http://qualify.us.wcg.com/?page=stem&view=schedule&stageid=2611.
To participate you will need to login to the GamOn client (http://file.wcgzone.com/WCGZoneInst_080602a.exe) using the WCG Zone ID and password that will be provided to you via Email tomorrow.
You can view the tournament competition guide which describes the game time process at http://qualify.us.wcg.com/files/file/WCG_2009_Game_Rules_SCBW_v2.pdf and the tournament rules at http://qualify.us.wcg.com/files/file/WCG_2009_NC_SC_Rules_ver_1_1.pdf. Please read both documents carefully, and check your email tomorrow for your WCG Zone ID and password.
If you need any tournament assistance, please open a support ticket via the web-based support system at http://qualify.us.wcg.com/?page=support. If you have any GamOn technical issues, please open a Q&A ticket at the WCG Zone site – www.wcgzone.com after logging in.
You’ll be able to see your opponents information and report your match score after the match is over directly from your My Matches page located at http://qualify.us.wcg.com/?page=my_matches. Remember matches are best of 3 maps, with players alternating map selection starting with the lower seeded player.
Good luck!
The retarded thing is. They STILL HAVE CONFLICTING MAP POOLS and STILL can't decide if it's going to be Bo1 or Bo3. The 2 Rules Documents say completely different things. Although I'm guessing the 2nd document is the most updated and thus most viable but that means all games are Bo1. Prepare your best cheese everybody.
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did they change the date again? when i signed up it was supposed to be on may 4th i thought
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Yeah. They changed the date again. I didn't even realize that.
Edit: Ohh I see. It's the West Tournament. Ok. So the delayed tournament will be on the 4th still for East. Thanks Idra.
Edit2: Now it's East again. Oo
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ah no, this is the first west one
first east one starts on the 4th
although i am apparently no longer signed up for it, and cant sign up again cuz i have a korean ip
nifty
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it better be bo3 and the map pool better be what inc had voted on
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Woo.. so I need to prepare Blue Storm, Python, Tau Cross, Gaia, Colosseum II and Destination for a Bo1 or Bo3 against G5.
FUCK.
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United States10774 Posts
oops i forgot about the east qualifier i signed up for...
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lol who is this h0rnygirl who is #1 on wcg ladder at the moment?
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where do u play the games at
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This one is B.Net US East.
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seriously whats maps and this better be bo3 or thats fucking stupid
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bo3 and maps are on the op
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On April 28 2009 05:39 tekushikume wrote:
bo3 and maps are on the op
Read the e-mail that has been posted. They give you links to two different rule sets.
One says Bo3 with Blue Storm, Python, Tau Cross, Gaia. The other doesn't specify Bo1 or Bo3, but from the explanation, it would seem it is a Bo1, and the maps listed are Blue Storm, Colosseum II, Destination, Python, Tau Cross.
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So when were we supposed to have signed up for this tournament? the west one that starts today... I coulda swore i registered for all of them.
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hmmm its 7:17PM but no1 is on yet =\ does this start at 8PM eastern? I'm confused
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sooooo the first day of wcg is once again an epic failure. the ref never showed up, many people were just talking in channel trying to get his attention, and my opponent who showed up and then left, tried to take the win over me. a very very sad day in wcg
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ok well i have an official statement from the refs about the maps, the official maps are blue storm, colosseum 2, destination, python, and tau cross. but because of some techincal issues only python,blue storm and tau cross are available for online play right now. i am talking with him to see how long this will be an issue and also what we can do to fix anything. also the qualifier which was supposed to be played tonight wil be played tomorrow at 8pm eastern
edit: looks like they cant use the other ones because they were not made by blizzard map editors. if anyone cares about wcg and would like to try and make a new destination and colo that was made with staredit, im sure everyone would thank you so we could use it.
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On April 21 2009 13:50 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I got your message but I am going to be honest: A friend of Dino's administrating for WCG doesn't sound like a keen strategy. I appreciate your willingness to help but I think we have it (as much as possible) under control.
thats unfair but ok i will accept who i am friends with may say something about me but whatever, i am just going to expect nothing but complete competence from wcg usa then if i reached my hand out to help.
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Also just found it is bo3. once again, maps FOR ONLINE QUALIFIERS will be python tau and bluestorm played in a bo3. matches will start tomorrow at 8 pm est for your games that were supposed to be played today. come even if you got a w/o the first day because they need them replayed for some reason. day twos matches start at the standard 9pm est.
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On April 28 2009 10:49 likeaboss wrote:
Also just found it is bo3. once again, maps FOR ONLINE QUALIFIERS will be python tau and bluestorm played in a bo3. matches will start tomorrow at 8 pm est for your games that were supposed to be played today. come even if you got a w/o the first day because they need them replayed for some reason. day twos matches start at the standard 9pm est.
that makes no sense
Day 1 was today?? not tomorrow lol
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They said in an email that due to some error, people weren't able to get contact info for opponents, and that today's games are pushed back to tomorrow night, and tomorrow's games will be played an hour later than originally scheduled.
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WOO HOO WCG USA. Site crashes tonight!
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lol registration closed even tho i registered before
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EPT
