All right! The first OSL of 2008 kicks off tonight, featuring two highly anticipated games as well as two games on brand new maps! Are you excited? I'm excited+ Show Spoiler +
for the new opening
! Will Jaedong defend his crown, or will sAviOr show everybody that he's not through yet? Will Troy be a cheese showcase, or a Terran graveyard? Will Xellos rebound after a few big losses lately? Will Yarnc use the massive imba predicted on Demon Forest to his advantage?
We will see Jaedong featured, as is the tradition of OSL openings. I hope we see a shot of Bisu and sAviOr expressing their rivalry, much like the BoxeR/YellOw days. I hope they do a pimptastic shot of XellOs, as he has shown signs of a resurgence lately. Aside from that, I hope everybody is shown in a cool pose, unlike the opening from a certain other starleague.
Someone making a banner would be really nice by now, I think KizZBG usually does them?
Aside from that, your predictions sound about right, what common sense would say. Flash opening up Troy will be interesting, this is like cheese^2 (ok, I know Flash also played solid lately, but if you try to think of a player who will definitely exploit the characteristics of this map, who comes to your mind?).
[b]Rumble[/b]>Flash - The stats say Flash but my heart says Rumble. I like his playing style too.
[b]Bisu[/b]>XellOs - Poor XellOs he could probobly beat Bisu on another map but not on Katrina :/ Still I will pray for him to smash Bisu into the ground.
1) sAviOr! (read the MBC commentary thread on the CJ vs OGN playoffs, Bisu himself was the only one to predict sAviOr would win over YellOw[ArnC], he had confidence that sAviOr would prevail ZvZ ace match, and damnit so do I now! Go Maestro!!!)
On January 16 2008 07:25 blagoonga123 wrote: i voted jaedong but i think savior might pull an upset out of his ass.
Also lol I just saw the banner. Whoever made this one is really good.
Savior winning will not be an "upset" ok. They are both good ZvZ players, sometimes people forget that savior is REALLY good in ZvZ better than most even though it isn't his best match up.
We will see Jaedong featured, as is the tradition of OSL openings. I hope we see a shot of Bisu and sAviOr expressing their rivalry, much like the BoxeR/YellOw days. I hope they do a pimptastic shot of XellOs, as he has shown signs of a resurgence lately. Aside from that, I hope everybody is shown in a cool pose, unlike the opening from a certain other starleague.
Oh man oh man I can't wait to see these when I come from school tomorrow.
jaedong (best zvz vs subpar zvz) flash (consistent player vs dude I dont even know) xells (probably in favor of bisu but whatever its xellos) yarnc (frozean kinda sucks as far as ive seen in tvz, and that map isnt gonna do him much good)
Can't a zerg just kill the enemy's 2 assimilators with muta micro and really fuck up the terrans game? The games on the new maps will definately be interesting. About the other new map, holy shit isn't lurker ling gonna RAPE mm army's ? Sounds like you need a load of firebats there.
Kickass banner, seriously, keep it throughout the whole starleague please its art.
Predictions.
Jaedong > savior i love them both but i think aedong has momentum and better zvz overall.
flash / rumble i dont give a rats %#¤
Bisu > Xellos Bisu hasnt lost it yet, his game vs jaedong was wierd and i think he could have won if he moved out earlier, not sure though. Also his game vs yellow he only lost because he lost 2 reavers in a shuttle so it was "bad luck", he will probably rape xellos, although i LOVE xellos.
Frozean < Yellow Poor frozean, no one votes for him:/ i wanna see the liquibet% and find out how many exactly;)
We will see Jaedong featured, as is the tradition of OSL openings. I hope we see a shot of Bisu and sAviOr expressing their Rivalry, Much like the BoxeR/YellOw days. I hope they do a pimptastic shot of XellOs, as he has shown signs of a resurgence lately. Aside from that, I hope everybody is shown in a cool pose, unlike the opening from a certain other starleague.
i just got very curious of the former progamers included in the embedded video of sunyveil. i only recognize boxer, yellow, oov, nada, reach & clon, can anyone help me with the others, according to sequence in the video? thanks a lot in advance!
Jaedong has already proven he is at stronger ZvP and ZvT than Savior. His win today would be conclusive proof he has surpassed the Maestro in every matchup.
On January 16 2008 15:00 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: Jaedong has already proven he is at stronger ZvP and ZvT than sAviOr. His win today would be conclusive proof he has surpassed the Maestro in every matchup.
But it's too soon, I doubt Jaedong will win.
Umm... look at sAviOr and Jaedong stats in ZvP and ZvZ respectively...?
But I guess sAviOr has been playing Much longer, and his recent performance isn't indicative of his record.
On January 16 2008 18:39 M2 wrote: You won't believe this, Yaoyuan is trying to work actually, its not working but its trying)
I hope they will manage to do it, now it seems it works for me until a certain level (Are they showing a Hwasin's match? I just heard JINJUNGSOO then i got disconnected). With my bandwidth i cannot use Daum at all, so i hope they will fix da good old yy by the matches.
As with my predictions yesterday, I fully expect the CJ players to get their heads smashed in as + Show Spoiler +
they seem to be neglecting their individual leagues to focus on the proleague playoffs. Three weeks ago, CJ's players were showing good form in the individual leagues, especially Savior who showed signs of studying Jaedong's games and learning from them. Then two weeks ago, CJ players suddenly showed abyssmal performance in individual leagues, followed by good performances in the proleague. Too much of a coincidence!
Is there a new patch or something lately for daum that ive missed coz i get a sign telling me something in korean :/ atleast when im trying to watch the 12:30 show above this event..
On January 16 2008 19:10 AnOth3rDAy wrote: Is there a new patch or something lately for daum that ive missed coz i get a sign telling me something in korean :/ atleast when im trying to watch the 12:30 show above this event..
yaoyuan is actually looping continously to some wraith-vult-tank fight. It has done it for 3 times for me. I hope that by some miracle it will work if the OSL actually begins.
On January 16 2008 19:22 AnOth3rDAy wrote: lol im watching some osl 2007 final now on daum and listening to the "opening band". Lol their music is so bad, haha. what a pitch
texas there was an autoupdate when the patch came right?
lair for savior (possibly jaedong too). jaedongs lings arrive at saviors base. pressures savior with larger numbers of lings. pecks at saviors nat hatchery. savior engages with lings and 2 drones. jaedong sends more lings, comes out on top. hatch in the red, both dancing lings. savior is safe for now.
Alternatively, when you start it click on the tab on the left of "UCC". Then click on the top option by the side. That will show you the live broadcasts that day. Just choose a room in orange.
spire for both, jaedongs possibly faster, not sure. same food for both, but savior has more money stored up. savior sneaks his lings past jeadongs and enters his base! savior raping drones, forces them to flee to nat. jeadongs counters saviors base! kills saviors nat hatch. kills the spire! scourge hitting mutas now. savior losing drones! 16 food vs 8 food! savior has nothing except 2 mutas and some scourge. jaedong has lings and drones (and his spire). savior had some lings left, killing jeadongs drones now! saviors lair down, not mining! GG, jaedong wins.
This match is seriously good 1, i think savior has relited his spark again, we may yet again see the dominant maestro ! I mean his play almost let me think he was gonna kill jaedong =/
Daum player has a very nice resolution.. and it doesn't lag even the tiniest
Exciting game, but I was pretty sure Jaedong would win when he almost killed saviors hatch in the beginning.. savior played well though, almost evening the match in the end.
Awesome tension that game, awesome micro.. man savior still has it. He got abit unlucky in the start getting a zergling hurt for nothing, LJD did little microthings that finally overcame savior. Great short game.
Wow omg a wild game, nice! Really sAviOr did seem much stronger playing to me now than his last few games. This could be really good and Lee Jaedong Fighting!!
On January 16 2008 19:48 Adamthegreat wrote: Daum player has a very nice resolution.. and it doesn't lag even the tiniest
Exciting game, but I was pretty sure Jaedong would win when he almost killed saviors hatch in the beginning.. savior played well though, almost evening the match in the end.
Savior had the right idea, I think. I really liked the way he charged his lings in and blocked Jaedong's entrance. I think he should have hit the spire first rather than the drones, but that's subjective.
Rumble's going for guardians, Flash almost got through rumble's sunkens but was stopped by muts (rumble lost a lot of drones). Guardians are transforming, flash notices and gets 3 starports up.
Flash runs around with marines, buying time for wraiths to get out. Destroyed a shitload of drones. Guardians head towards flash's expo but flash's marines head down to rumble's nat and kill nearly all his drones. Greater spire and pool destroyed.
How the match goes so far: Rumble goes 3 hatch, with his 3rd at the 9 expo Rumble kills the assims there, so 9 expo is now an island, Flash narrowly misses it while the assims were there Flash then gets a MnM force tries to attack the nat, many sunks though Rumble goes fast hive guards Flash then goes 4 starport Flash sneaks by a bunch of MnM and Rumble has low drone count, but Rumble made the nat stop for a bit.
ok, i think they've introduced a new ceremony where the players sign for their wins after the game. certainly more "ceremonial" than fbh running half-naked into the crowd, if you ask me.
On January 16 2008 20:18 GeLaar wrote: ok, i think they've introduced a new ceremony where the players sign for their wins after the game. certainly more "ceremonial" than fbh running half-naked into the crowd, if you ask me.
hmmm troy seems pretty cheap... it basically has island expansions that you can take without drop tech. Just waltz your worker in there, take out the Assims, and you're safe.
Troy seems nice. Hmm maybe terran should have 2 scv following a group of marines and scout exps. Make 2 refinary and walk through with 1 bat 3 marine and 1 medic then cancel refinary and zerg exp is dead!
On January 16 2008 20:23 Zalfor wrote: troy is a really really good map.
can u make the refineries and then attack the base?
yeah i think so, not sure though..
zergplayer can start hit the assimilators @ his own base to red or soemthing, and if he expects a "sneak-attack" just kill the assimilators and your main is safe, cost 100 to open it up again.
those stats don't necessarily mean something. one player might be 5-5 playing beyond ro8 in the starleagues, the other one might be 5-5 struggling through dual...
On January 16 2008 20:23 Zalfor wrote: troy is a really really good map.
can u make the refineries and then attack the base?
Refineries and extractors are much bigger than assimilators, and nothing will fit through even with them on there. Only toss can rebuild assimilators and fit through (assuming you can rebuild - the geysers may be on unbuildable terrain).
xellos supply, rax, gas. bisu pylon, gate, gas. xellos scouting 3, core for bisu. bisu also scouting 3, they meet, bisu doesnt realize xellos is at 6. no zealot for bisu. fact for xellos, 2 marines out. first goon chasing scv.
shop for fact, 4 marines out. robo for bisu. xellos 1 fact cc. 2 goons dance vs 4 rines and a tank. nexus for bisu, shuttle out. observatory up, bay warping. vults with mines out. starport for xellos.
Xellos has an expo building, one barrack one factory. Making a starport in anticipation of Bisu's shuttle+reaver. Bisu's got a robotics up, and a stargate going up. Reaver got into the shuttle, but not heading anywhere.
stargate for bisu, commentors saying reaver + carrier. engineering bay for xellos. reaver out and in shuttle. looks like a vulture drop for xellos, observers sees starport (with addon) blinking. 2nd stargate up. dropship heading north with vults. fleet beacon. goons ready, xellos dropships flee. looks like it was a fake, vults attacking front. kills 1 goon but is chased away by reaver.
Wow storyteller i thought i AM the only 1 who has problems with daum, it buffers like every 7 sec, then after a while, it totally skips ahead to what is happening live, then repeats, kinda gets irritating.
Shuttle was found by a wraith, but it managed to get back before it was shot down. Two stargates up and two carriers out. Dropped three vultures at bisu's expo but didn't manage to kill a single probe.
On January 16 2008 20:43 dragoonkf wrote: Wow storyteller i thought i AM the only 1 who has problems with daum, it buffers like every 7 sec, then after a while, it totally skips ahead to what is happening live, then repeats, kinda gets irritating.
On January 16 2008 20:43 dragoonkf wrote: Wow storyteller i thought i AM the only 1 who has problems with daum, it buffers like every 7 sec, then after a while, it totally skips ahead to what is happening live, then repeats, kinda gets irritating.
You need a fast connection for Daum, though it sometimes lags, its what lags less for me. Kind of like a last resort :p
On January 16 2008 20:43 Aepplet wrote: stargate for bisu, commentors saying reaver + carrier. engineering bay for xellos. reaver out and in shuttle. looks like a vulture drop for xellos, observers sees starport (with addon) blinking. 2nd stargate up. dropship heading north with vults. fleet beacon. goons ready, xellos dropships flee. looks like it was a fake, vults attacking front. kills 1 goon but is chased away by reaver.
On January 16 2008 20:43 dragoonkf wrote: Wow storyteller i thought i AM the only 1 who has problems with daum, it buffers like every 7 sec, then after a while, it totally skips ahead to what is happening live, then repeats, kinda gets irritating.
wraith meets shuttle with reaver goon, chases shuttle to bisus base and is killed. forge for bisu, 2 carriers out. mini vulture drop does nothing. lots of tanks for xellos. bisu looking to expand to middle nat. xellos moving out with goliath tank. forces bisu to cancel 2nd nat. forces engage. bisu loses goons, shuttle and reaver. carriers picking on tanks and goliaths.
Xellos sieged outside of Bisu's 2nd nat. Forced a cancel, and now Carrier's out killing some of Xellos troops. But more goliaths arrive, then my stream died.
Xellos going up with tanks, marines and 4 gols. Shuttle with reaver inside was shot down without a single shot fired. Xellos lost all gols, but kept most of his tanks alive.
Bisu has 6 carriers now, situation looks grim for Xellos.
meanwhile xellos has expanded to middle nat, as well as bottom left. forces meet again in center. everything dies, bisu is left with 3 carriers. bisu attacking xellos 2nd nat with his carriers and goons (which die). xellos struggling with the carriers here, he has few goliaths.
That map is gay when it comes to 2 base carrier-builds. I've seen 4 pvt and in everyone of them the toss goes 2 base carriers and just rolls over the terran player.
Terrans should go ghost with lockdown right from the beginning, then at least we might see some cute tricks before they GG....
On January 16 2008 20:52 Adamthegreat wrote: That map is gay when it comes to 2 base carrier-builds. I've seen 4 pvt and in everythree of them the toss goes 2 base carriers and just rolls over the terran player.
Terrans should go ghost with lockdown right from the beginning, then at least we might see some cute tricks before they GG....
fix'ed :D but seriously though it was unlucky of xellos to play with bisu on katrina, cant blame him on abusing such a good opportunity to give himself momentum
Xellos didn't give Bisu as much trouble with the drops as Upmagic. Was a little disappointing, certainly didn't help make the game exciting. Still, hopefully they'll both manage to escape the group nevertheless.
On January 16 2008 20:52 teamsolid wrote: That was a close game. Sure imba map and all, but nice job by Bisu for his clutch play and good attempt by Xellos for his push.
Actually for it to be "close" Xellos would have needed to somehow keep his expo advantage alive for 5 minutes - not happening on Katrina.
What Terran don't you see dbl expo on this map mid game and hope to win? (if they even live that long)
don't know why everyone is complaining. there were more tanks heading towards bisu's base than he had goons and the carriers weren't ready yet. that really was a close game; bisu even sacrificed a carrier and his initial goon army to keep the number of gols as low as possible.
Well the whole game was hanging on that push. If Xellos had made about 3-4 more goliaths instead of 2 tanks for his first push, he would've won that game with his extra expo and all. It really was a close game if you think about it.
The first major battle came out with 3 carriers left ONLY (and only 2 with interceptors). If Bisu had not countered Xellos at that moment, it would've been over as well. Good decision making by Bisu for once.
Seriously... no need to whine when 2 Base carrier builds are so common nowadays.
Xellos was in a good position. But then he just fails to defend to carriers.
Carriers + Bisu + Katrina = insta win?
Those carriers = insta win comments I find so annoying. But I can't resist this one because that's how it seemed to me.
Before carriers supply was equal, which shouldn't be good for P. He also stopped Bisu from expanding when it was ground vs ground. And didn't he see the carriers coming?
If Bisu hadn't barely stopped the tank push with his first few carriers Xellos would have been in a very dominant position, imo.
Why does the commentators always pronounce yellow's name as Pang Myung Soo rather than Par"k" Myung Soo ? I can clearly hear the k sound in Park Sung Jun but for the twins its always the "ng" sound ?
Xellos made too many expos and not enough factories. And forgot to make charon boosters in time. And wasted his initial golies in an embarassing way. And spent 200 gas on 2 wraiths that did nothing. And wasted several vults killing one probe.
Carriers are not really the imbalance factor on Katrina, most convincing wins I've seen were with arbiters, so this game is made purely of Xellos' mistakes, I fail to see what people are whining about. Rethink how it could've gone hadn't Xellos made all those mistakes and see that it was not that "gay". Besides, Bisu microed his carriers greatly. This game, he was just > Xellos.
On January 16 2008 20:58 dragoonkf wrote: Why does the commentators always pronounce yellow's name as Pang Myung Soo rather than Par"k" Myung Soo ? I can clearly hear the k sound in Park Sung Jun but for the twins its always the "ng" sound ?
the korean family name translated as "Park" doesn't have a proper consonant at the end at all. on it's own, it's pronounced "Pa" with a closing sound (the kyeok as batchim). when they pronounce his entire name, kyeok becomes "ng" because of the "m" that follows, due to a pronunciation rule.
that's my guess at least. someone who knows more korean than me correct me if i'm wrong.
On January 16 2008 20:58 Sunyveil wrote: I like how everybody saying that I complain too much is a protoss player.
Of course you like the way it is. it's imba'd in your favor.
If you're going to suggest Carriers are slower, then neither side is better off. As it stands, it is the map Katrina rather than Carriers themselves which people seem to take the most offense at. So that would be the issue that needs changing ...
I've been away from SC a while myself, so I'll need to study the VOD to figure out how close it was and if it was good play that decided the outcome, or Carriers + Katrina had it won already.
On January 16 2008 20:52 Sunyveil wrote: Congratulations on being a CHEAP CARRIER ABUSE BASTARD, BISU
gawd... They should at least move slower or have less range, like BCs
rofl. Then Carriers would be worthless vs Terran.
Like BCs vs Protoss?
Yes, worthless just like equal or even greater supply Toss armies against Terran ground in late game? Just like 3/3 Toss ground vs 3/3 Terran? God, stop complaining.
BluzMan, I think you are right about Bisu forcing Xellos to play badly vs carriers.
Katrina is not balanced for PvT. But isn't that because of the protected expo? And not so much because of carrier friendly terrain? I don't know Katrina very well aren't there are maps, like peaks and blue storm, that are much more of a 'carrier hell'?
I so fear for sAviOr fate now... Sea is a monster, I'd vote for him against the maestro without thinking. And Best, well he is not going to come scared for the match, he's seen sAviOr lose to Kal on MSL Ro32, he's seen him lose to Chalrenge on one of his worst games ever... The time where sAviOr's opponents were shitting themselves is ancient history :-(
On January 16 2008 20:52 Sunyveil wrote: Congratulations on being a CHEAP CARRIER ABUSE BASTARD, BISU
gawd... They should at least move slower or have less range, like BCs
rofl. Then Carriers would be worthless vs Terran.
Like BCs vs Protoss?
Pretty much only because of Storm.
BC range isn't the reason they suck against toss.
Without storm, BC/Tank would be a nightmare for Protoss to stop - assuming Terran had all the time and the gas in the world to get that.
you forgot getting stasis'ed by arbiters, which i think is the worst thing ever when you have bc's haha
oh yeah, Arbs too but they always smack Terran around.
Point is if Carriers had BC range and slow speed protoss would never be able to break a push mid or late game, and would barely consider 2 base Carrier an option because gollies would eat them alive.
the hell is with this map, i thought there were supposed to be a bunch of trees, looks like a bunch of stumps lol.. and that ling is still running around frozean's base xD
edit: yellow going in and fucking everything in sight with muta harrass :D
There's a lot of room for recalls (that main/nat plateau is a pain) on Katrina. There are lots of backdoor routes that make slow pushing hardly viable. I believe those are the most apparent reasons it's does so bad. But the same features that make a map "carrier hell" make it a "tank hell" generally. A lot of cliffs and ramps favor both. Wider ramps somewhat favor tank warfare, water favors carriers, but still if a map is cramped, it doesn't make it instawin for toss, in fact, midgame is very hard there. I think that's the main reason 2 base carrier became so popular, cramped maps make ground play very hard. Katrina is somewhat a different story with it's super-complex pathing and long distances, but those features still persist.
Losing your army so cheaply when you're TvZing against Yellow[arnc] is not a clever idea. Frozean's going to remember this for a while, even if he takes the game.
also, isn't the title of "most brutal muta harass ever" still held by julyzerg after his game vs a chinese player in wcg, when he won the game using only muta harass?
On January 16 2008 21:21 GeLaar wrote: lol @ overlords.
also, isn't the title of "most brutal muta harass ever" still held by julyzerg after his game vs a chinese player in wcg, when he won the game using only muta harass?
I am operating on sketchy memories here, but Yellow[arnc]'s Mutalisk harassment against oov in an earlier OSL would have to be another contender. This yellow's mutalisk harassment has delivered time and time again.
On January 16 2008 21:21 GeLaar wrote: lol @ overlords.
also, isn't the title of "most brutal muta harass ever" still held by julyzerg after his game vs a chinese player in wcg, when he won the game using only muta harass?
I am operating on sketchy memories here, but Yellow[arnc]'s Mutalisk harassment against oov in an earlier OSL would have to be another contender. This yellow's mutalisk harassment has delivered time and time again.
Yea, I remember that game. It was on hitchhiker I think.
frozean is indeed almost making a come-back. and he probably would've made it if he wasn't so stubbornly refusing to micro his marines when fighting lurkers. seriously...
On January 16 2008 21:21 GeLaar wrote: lol @ overlords.
also, isn't the title of "most brutal muta harass ever" still held by julyzerg after his game vs a chinese player in wcg, when he won the game using only muta harass?
Same for jd when killing wemade baby with mutas only?
On January 16 2008 21:22 Catyoul wrote: Fun highlights :
Frozean losing 2 packs of marines and a couple vessels to kill one hatchery. Frozean finding an overlord farm with his marines.
On January 16 2008 21:22 BluzMan wrote: Nvm, a classic plague/muta trick destroys the flying toilets.
Broodwar is an endless inspiration for the poets I see
I definitely thought MS was gonna win, he was like 30 supply ahead (50-80) and harrassed quite good. Then my stream skipped (again) and MS was still at 80 supply and cuteangel was suddenly raping shit everywhere.
im just confused. i agree yarnc was owning with the muta harass, but this map was just.... nothing ive ever seen before. i wont say yarnc sucks until i understand this map.
funny map.. Not only do rines suck in the center without vision medics can't really heal that great in the center because they circle around doo-dads.Then again, once vessals go up and grant vision it seems terran can fight there pretty well since zerg come in single file lol
On January 16 2008 21:31 Ace wrote: someone explain to me wtf happened?
i think he wasted too much gas on mass lurkers and just ran out of steam while the flying toilets irradiated all of them then marines+vessels in trees = sorry can't move out anymore.. total map control
Yellow came in a bad position when defending his hatchery at 6. Ok frozean lost many marines but yellow lost his momentum, he was 100 suply vs 75 and after that attack it was like 60 vs 60...
I knew I was gonna lose points with voting for XellOs, but he's worth losing points for. But fake Yellow ffs ... it's FrOzean we're talking about here. >:|
On January 16 2008 21:38 AnOth3rDAy wrote: Yellow came in a bad position when defending his hatchery at 6. Ok frozean lost many marines but yellow lost his momentum, he was 100 suply vs 75 and after that attack it was like 60 vs 60...
I'd love to see the liquibet%
I also thought that battle was the turning point of the game.
It's likely that the cover of the forest allowed frozean to sneak around to attack the expo at that angle. Yarnc probably had no idea where frozean's army was due to the obscuring vision of the forest.
A hallmark of this map is that one must basically engage with his army in order to see the opposing army, when without air.
For the people bitching about katrina and Bisu's carriers. I'm sick of this shit. Xellos knows the weakness of terran on Katrina. He should learn from UpMagic. If you're at a disadvantage with standard play USE NON STANDARD PLAY FOR GODS SAKE. Do a 1 fact + 2 proxy fact timing attack for example. You can use the high ground near the ramp below the protoss main as a starting point to setup a strong push to the main. Theres plenty of options besides simply passively macroing for the loss.
On January 17 2008 00:51 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: For the people bitching about katrina and Bisu's carriers. I'm sick of this shit. Xellos knows the weakness of terran on Katrina. He should learn from UpMagic. If you're at a disadvantage with standard play USE NON STANDARD PLAY FOR GODS SAKE. Do a 1 fact + 2 proxy fact timing attack for example. You can use the high ground near the ramp below the protoss nat as a starting point to setup a strong push to the nat. Theres plenty of options besides simply passively macroing for the loss.
Ya and it worked perfectly the other time But really if the non standard strat is done properly there should be no way to scout or read it until its already in effect. Actually bisu has a fairly long history of having problems with non standard play. By no means I'm suggesting that its going to work for sure or that its an easy thing to do. But given the nature of Katrina and the fact that the opponent is Bisu, non standard play would have a much higher success rate.
At least this is what I would have told Xellos if I was the CJ coach
On top of that it's really annoying to hear people bitch about Bisu's play. He knows what it takes to win and he knows the most solid way to do it. You can't blame him for taking the marginal advantage of the map and turning it into a sure win against standard T play (given his amazing skills). Yes he could've gone arbs or something more entertaining but arbs can be adapted to and defended against in ways that carriers simply cannot.
I'm not complaining about Bisu going carriers. Im complaining about MBC + OGN keeping katrina is an awful map and it doesn't bring interesting games so far.
On January 17 2008 02:46 IntoTheWow wrote: I'm not complaining about Bisu going carriers. Im complaining about MBC + OGN keeping katrina is an awful map and it doesn't bring interesting games so far.
Well it probably wasn't directed at you then It was mainly to the people who were like "WTF GAY BISU GOING CARRIERS HOW LAME".
Yarnc did make some mistakes (2 big ones), but I also thought frozean played it really well. (With the exception of defending his main from muta harass, what the hell was that.) I kinda expected that map they played on to feature a lot of firebats and I just loved watching that game even though yarnc really should've won that. :p
Savior also did pretty well even though he didn't end on top.
The bisu game was just plain gayness, god I hate it when someone who isn't rock pulls that strategy.
The Rumble vs Flash game was pretty funny, although rumble played like shit imo. Bad defense of his expansion, going for fast greater spire so fast and hoping it'd work, losing air superiority which resulted in getting his other expansion raped by wraiths. Flash wasn't even playing good that game.
I think Xellos was doing good but his biggest mistake was to suicide the first goliaths to hold bisu expansion for just a few seconds more. If he just went back and macroed with more factories he would have probably parried that goons/carriers attack and won.
On January 17 2008 06:54 Ace wrote: Flash is underrated
Not by everyone. I've respected even in the days when everyone was saying he was a "lucky cheesing newb who couldn't when a straight up game". It was pretty clear from the beggining he had some serious talent. Whether or not he will become an S class player still remains to be seen. He is most definitely on his way though.
Ho-hum games. Savior looked asleep at the wheel not going for that spire with his lings and losing so much in his main..
Why couldnt Xellos do something a LITTLE creative like throw 3 tanks over to the min only up top and counter with them. Probably sucked he got cross spots though.
lol at Yarnc.. how could u lose that, i didnt really even understand considering how fucking sloppy frozean looked losing 18265 marines. The only guess I have is that Yarnc was behind a bit in upgrades and trying to catch up by adding a 2nd evo, once he lost that nat his momentum was done because he is a gay baby ughhh, who the fuck even bothers with scourge after mid game vs double starport and why wasnt yarnc expanding to any of those closer spots to his 2nd nat?? Maybe I didnt udnerstand the map but seemed stupid to take that main all the way over there
EPT![[image loading]](http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6258/bacchus2008rs7.png)
![[image loading]](http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/3199/bacchusstarleaguelogo2pl6.png)
Jaedong < Blue Storm > 
Flash
Bisu < Katrina > 
![[image loading]](http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bacchusstarleaguelogo2pl6.png)
![[image loading]](http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/478/clipboard01zt2.jpg)
reavers out, but bisu taking his merry time 
![[image loading]](http://www.wgtour.com/upload/admin/4725_Troy.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.wgtour.com/upload/admin/4724_DemonsForest.jpg)
