[ASL17] Ro16 Group A

On March 18 2024 19:17 Terrorbladder wrote:
I predict Mong to do some cheese with poor execution in both matches and proceed to get knocked out

On March 18 2024 20:35 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
soulkey mind game king

On March 18 2024 20:26 Peeano wrote:
I went to get a sandwich and came back to seeing Bisu lose to lings. Before leaving I caught a zoom in on Soulkey's face and Soulkey didn't look super confident that moment.

On March 18 2024 20:36 foxmeep wrote:


Did you put cheese on your sandwich? Cause SK has some for you if you didn't.

On March 18 2024 21:36 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Hows yongtaek performing?

On March 18 2024 21:57 Terrorbladder wrote:
Man, JyJ is terrible. Nice throw by not retaking the 3rd.

On March 18 2024 22:00 angry_maia wrote:


I'm not a fan of calling progamers "terrible," but I do feel he really blundered this game. Given how late bisu's 4th was, felt like he could have just taken the third, maxed out, and killed bisu. I also think the first moveout jyj made didn't really make sense -- he just sat there while bisu ransacked his third and then retreated back without doing any damage at all.

On March 18 2024 22:12 Peeano wrote:
Glad about the outcome, but really only 1 exciting game... and that's not because players were playing great lol.

On March 19 2024 00:33 w3c]sKopheK wrote:
was great tonight! anyone in Seoul these days to hangout before/after the Ro16? we're here till 27, but in Seoul for the days of ASL (+this Wednesday) only

On March 19 2024 10:54 Smorrie wrote:
SK vs Bisu 2 was a sick game... Came to the comment section to see the posts about SK totally turning around a lost game by cancelling his 4th hatch and putting down a double hydra den, hitting a sick timing attack which only worked due to the double den. This is the type of stuff you only see in the most elitest games.

But all I found was a poll about the game with 'only watch if you have time' as the popular vote. As disappointing as Mong's performance.

On March 19 2024 11:20 TMNT wrote:

Think you're confusing between a timing attack and an all in cheese. A timing attack, like a 5 Fac for example, doesn't involve sacking your entire economy while having no follow up...

On March 19 2024 12:08 Smorrie wrote:
Sure, semantics... It was a lost game. He pulled out an unconventional solution out of his ass that was only able to succeed within a very specific time frame, which needed him to put down a double den and cancel his 4th hatch. He just barely made it work. Very cool move and great execution. Or, as some would say, just an all in cheese huehue

On March 19 2024 12:21 cheesehuehue wrote:


Dude you call it cheese derogatorily like if "cheesing" was inherently something bad or that it showed a lack of skill. Call it what you want (talk about semantics), but SK managed the situation skillfully. I'll grant you that he almost messed up by going into the main base instead of staying in the natural.

On March 19 2024 11:49 RowdierBob wrote:

I think you're underselling SK's play in this game. I think it was a very practised and well executed build specific to what he knows about Bisu.

On March 19 2024 23:26 TMNT wrote:

For me it's just a tech switch that has always been in the arsenal of Zerg and I'm pretty sure you can find a double hydra den play on the ladder, not just at elite level. It doesn't take much micro or macro skill, just banking on your opponent not sending a corsair to your base. Denying the probe scouting for a 3H Hydra bust takes more attention than that. And I'm pretty sure it would have worked with 1 Hydra Den as well because Bisu had like... 2 cannons and almost no fighting units at that point.

It's the equivalent of a PvT or PvP where you show the core spinning and cancel it and DT rush. Except that in PvP or PvT you can block the ramp later and actively deny your opponent of scouting it. While in this case he has to rely on pure luck.

On March 20 2024 05:00 Smorrie wrote:


I really don't understand how that situation is anywhere remotely comparable to the SK vs Bisu game, with the exception of something getting cancelled.

At this point I'm not sure if you're trolling or just diminishing all context of the game due to your strong preference for Protoss players. All good though, Bisu still advances :D

On March 20 2024 07:07 TMNT wrote:

Don't you think the reason you came here to see the posts about that game only to find "watch if you have time" is because most people don't find that tech flip all that amazing and it's only you who are overrating it? As far as I know the Korean community and other pros didn't go crazy about it either.

Is this the first time you see Zerg flipping their tech? Or because this time he built 2 Dens instead of 1? Never seen that either? Do you think it's not an all in (he had 3H and 24 drones by the way)? Do you agree that he had no active control whether or not Bisu would find out?

I don't understand how you don't understand that situations like cancelling range for DT rush, or cancelling CC for 2 Rax all in, or any situations where you flip your tech to go for a killing blow, are comparable to what Soulkey did here? Honestly, what's the difference? That he was behind so he had to do something? Or that he built 2 Dens instead of 1???

On March 20 2024 07:42 cheesehuehue wrote:


The problem is that you don't understand nuance because you've drunk Artosis' Kool-aid and think that (an allegedlly) all-in = lack of skill and if you win is just out of pure luck, when in fact there's an accurate timing for it to work.

On March 20 2024 08:42 TMNT wrote:

Or maybe I understand everything, just dont value it as highly as you do. I didn't say anything about lack of skill or winning out of pure luck though. Maybe it's you who is obssessed with Artosis. The timing in question is "as soon as my 2 upgrades are done and before he finds it out". Oh and you could say the same thing for pretty much every timing though. Like a DT rush should arrive before your opponnent builds an Observer lol.

Btw it's not allegedly. It's "completely all in", to quote Nyoken verbatim.

And to elaborate more, I'm the type who is more impressed with stuff like Soulkey denying death like 10 times against Royal to crawl back and win the game (in the Proleague game of the year 2023 - you should check it out), or Mini almost pulling a rabbit out of the hat vs Barracks today.

On March 20 2024 09:28 Smorrie wrote:
It was a very unusual and cool move. The execution was very well done & the window of opportunity was very small. Without it, the game wasn't particularly fascinating, but this particular event turned around the outcome of the game.

You don't have share the same opinion and think it is cool but your arguments are objectively wrong.

It had nothing to do with whatever you are referring to as a 'tech flip'. He didn't fake his tech to put Bisu on the wrong foot, he never canceled a spire to put down a den instead, nor did he do anything similar to the concept you keep describing.

Even though it seemed that SK originally intended to invest more into mutas, zealots hurt his already low eco, he made too many lings & his mutas turned out to be ineffective. Hydra is the go to progression.

At that point SK was quite far behind and his path to victory would rely on Bisu screwing up. He decided to take matters into his own hands, canceled his 4th hatch to get 2 dens and enough minerals to start both upgrades. As SK engaged Bisu's exp, DT's popped as well, but SK was in there just in time to take down the cannons. A very precise and calculated execution - hence the double dens.

5 mutas are just enough to 1 shot probes which forced Bisu to stay at home and he kept that threat active by picking off a few probes. This was definitely not accounting to 'pure luck' either.

Brilliant execution & definitely worth the watch.

You don't have to think it was fun or exciting. But if you think this is a tech flip or pure luck... well.. I don't know what to tell you.

On March 20 2024 16:12 Smorrie wrote:
How can you triple down on this lol. Your response hardly makes any sense. To some 1+1=11 makes sense too I guess.

On March 20 2024 15:47 Comedy wrote:
I'm not gonna read all that, but I have never seen a muta/scourge fakeout into a double den hydra push, that was the first time.

On March 20 2024 18:29 TMNT wrote:

Way to win an argument. Instead of countering point by point, like what I did, let's just say "oh I am right because you're wrong".