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[ASL16] Ro24 Group C - Page 4

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Rainalcar
Profile Joined April 2010
Croatia360 Posts
August 16 2023 11:21 GMT
#61
On August 16 2023 20:18 M2 wrote:
not sure why protosses so rarely start cannons at the front just in case together with the corsairs scout and then cancel them if they find nothing, especially when there is some cheesy openings like zegilings busts


Because then you bleed out, vs muta, lurker, etc. It's not about cost lost, it's also about everything else falling behind due to sunken costs in cannons. ZvP is imba due mostly to the early stages, but what else is new?
j.r.r.
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4115 Posts
August 16 2023 11:21 GMT
#62
On August 16 2023 20:18 RowdierBob wrote:
Are hydra allins op or protosses too hopeless at scouting/anticipating them?

I think this is THE issue with PvZ, protoss has no reliable means to scout at this phase, they have to guess, if they are wrong -> they die, if they guess correct the game goes 50/50
Outside of this the race has all the means to fight toe to with zerg, but this guessing phase is quite devastating for the overall win rate in the match up
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
Rainalcar
Profile Joined April 2010
Croatia360 Posts
August 16 2023 11:23 GMT
#63
On August 16 2023 20:21 M2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2023 20:18 RowdierBob wrote:
Are hydra allins op or protosses too hopeless at scouting/anticipating them?

I think this is THE issue with PvZ, protoss has no reliable means to scout at this phase, they have to guess, if they are wrong -> they die, if they guess correct the game goes 50/50
Outside of this the race has all the means to fight toe to with zerg, but this guessing phase is quite devastating for the overall win rate in the match up


Precisely. Zerg gets a free chance for the kill, and can still fight on equal terms later, in general.
j.r.r.
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4115 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-16 11:24:22
August 16 2023 11:23 GMT
#64
On August 16 2023 20:21 Rainalcar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2023 20:18 M2 wrote:
not sure why protosses so rarely start cannons at the front just in case together with the corsairs scout and then cancel them if they find nothing, especially when there is some cheesy openings like zegilings busts


Because then you bleed out, vs muta, lurker, etc. It's not about cost lost, it's also about everything else falling behind due to sunken costs in cannons. ZvP is imba due mostly to the early stages, but what else is new?

Yeah I understand this, but I saw a protoss timing in some games where they start cannons in a way that they are almost ready when the corsair reaches zerg base and if they see nothing they cancel them, but perhaps its not applicable every game
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5214 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-16 11:24:54
August 16 2023 11:24 GMT
#65
We need to revisit robo openers against zerg! I mean when Kingdom, Nalra played zerg was playing totally different meta as well, on very different maps. I'm a fish D/F theorycrafter so there is of course 80% humour in this.
The heart's eternal vow
Rainalcar
Profile Joined April 2010
Croatia360 Posts
August 16 2023 11:24 GMT
#66
On August 16 2023 20:23 M2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2023 20:21 Rainalcar wrote:
On August 16 2023 20:18 M2 wrote:
not sure why protosses so rarely start cannons at the front just in case together with the corsairs scout and then cancel them if they find nothing, especially when there is some cheesy openings like zegilings busts


Because then you bleed out, vs muta, lurker, etc. It's not about cost lost, it's also about everything else falling behind due to sunken costs in cannons. ZvP is imba due mostly to the early stages, but what else is new?

Yeah I understand this, but I saw a protoss timing is some games where they start cannons in a way that they are almost ready when the corsair reaches zerg base and if they see nothing they cancel them, but perhaps its not applicable every game


Only if you have a really strong backed-up hunch will you see this. Most of the time, it's a guessing game.
j.r.r.
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5214 Posts
August 16 2023 11:26 GMT
#67
GO SNOW! Tempest is a great map for 2base carrier
The heart's eternal vow
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4115 Posts
August 16 2023 11:30 GMT
#68
On August 16 2023 20:24 Rainalcar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2023 20:23 M2 wrote:
On August 16 2023 20:21 Rainalcar wrote:
On August 16 2023 20:18 M2 wrote:
not sure why protosses so rarely start cannons at the front just in case together with the corsairs scout and then cancel them if they find nothing, especially when there is some cheesy openings like zegilings busts


Because then you bleed out, vs muta, lurker, etc. It's not about cost lost, it's also about everything else falling behind due to sunken costs in cannons. ZvP is imba due mostly to the early stages, but what else is new?

Yeah I understand this, but I saw a protoss timing is some games where they start cannons in a way that they are almost ready when the corsair reaches zerg base and if they see nothing they cancel them, but perhaps its not applicable every game


Only if you have a really strong backed-up hunch will you see this. Most of the time, it's a guessing game.

I am also thinking that Protosses need to prepare perfectly to be competitive in this level and there is just not enough incentives for this in the post kespa era
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5214 Posts
August 16 2023 11:39 GMT
#69
What a funny zig-zag layout Snow is expanding, it's really interesting to watch tvp's on this map.
The heart's eternal vow
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania7973 Posts
August 16 2023 11:45 GMT
#70
what is happening ? is snow falling ??
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5214 Posts
August 16 2023 11:48 GMT
#71
I would also storm myself to death in a match like this like that high templar did
The heart's eternal vow
CopeTheUnknown
Profile Joined July 2023
3 Posts
August 16 2023 11:49 GMT
#72
nice close game :D
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4115 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-16 11:51:19
August 16 2023 11:51 GMT
#73
On August 16 2023 20:45 prosatan wrote:
what is happening ? is snow falling ??

No, Royal is just playing better
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania7973 Posts
August 16 2023 11:52 GMT
#74
On August 16 2023 20:48 PVJ wrote:
I would also storm myself to death in a match like this like that high templar did

Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
Rainalcar
Profile Joined April 2010
Croatia360 Posts
August 16 2023 11:52 GMT
#75
I hope we end up with 1P after the group stage, just to hear how P are not trying enough
j.r.r.
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50114 Posts
August 16 2023 11:52 GMT
#76
snow forever online player, why do I keep betting on him
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania7973 Posts
August 16 2023 11:53 GMT
#77
Very strong in proleague and loses in RO 24 ....
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50114 Posts
August 16 2023 11:53 GMT
#78
Poll: Recommend Losers' Game?

Yes (19)
 
86%

No (3)
 
14%

If you have time (0)
 
0%

22 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Losers' Game?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time

Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
Kaolla
Profile Joined January 2003
China2999 Posts
August 16 2023 11:54 GMT
#79
How predictable... Snow losing in the RO24... Seriously, how can anyone take this guy seriously.... Best PvT... yea, right, best choker in the game.
its me
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13004 Posts
August 16 2023 11:54 GMT
#80
Ugh Snow. He’s just one of those guys who can’t perform in front of the cameras.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
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