[ASL16] Ro24 Group C - Page 10

On August 19 2023 01:47 Smorrie wrote:
Honestly, I don't really see the problem. Fans can like whoever they like. Ironically, I'd say trying to enforce who people should hold in higher regard is the actual issue ^_^;

Skill level benchmarks just aren't very impactful for one's legacy - that's the discussion I tuned into. Even though it appears it's difficult to separate these from each other and the discussion easily gets clouded.

Winning an OSL/ASL isn't the be all and end all, but it generally does a lot more for one's legacy. It's what people remember most and what goes down in the history books.

Do you honestly remember who were top contenders near the end of the KESPA era? I wouldn't know. I know Flash & JD duked it out. JD had a killer final in MSL with a controversial power outage. Fantasy finally won an OSL when Flash & JD got eliminated. JangBi won an OSL and added himself to the elite protoss ranks. What about other players in that era? I honestly can not recall any proleague records, except for some generic narratives. That's the power of winning the most prestigious tournaments.

On August 18 2023 20:11 Peeano wrote:
Tbf Bisu did go carriers that game and thus still giving Flash a win

With Shuttle vs Royal, while it wouldn't have been auto-win for Shuttle if the crowd didn't interfere, I feel like it would be silly to say the interference didn't (significantly) decrease Shuttle's chance. Unlike Flash, Shuttle didn't win. It's commendable Shuttle put out any potential fires.

I mentioned booth in an earlier post, because I imagine it's better than nothing at all. I believe it's something ASL could invest in given we're on the 16th edition already.

On August 19 2023 02:28 WGT-Baal wrote:
btw I m sorry if this whole side discussion started due to my little banter at my fellow active TL-er regarding snow s skill and prediction coming into this ASL. I intended it mostly in jest.

On August 19 2023 03:12 Smorrie wrote:
Nobody said Snow is a bad player, not even the bait posts that sparked the discussion.

On August 16 2023 19:56 Kaolla wrote:
I mean I do think Royal is a cheese terran anyway

Snow losing in the RO24... Seriously, how can anyone take this guy seriously.... Best PvT... yea, right, best choker in the game.

Royal got through somewhat lucky in the RO24, nothing special about that? The dude really is nothing special. He beat a B-tier player today, yay, definitely is not on the level of the elites, but yea, we'll see that in the rest of ASL. Not sure what other terran you mean, but Jyj sure seems more impressive to me.

He can be the best everywhere, as long as he doesn't win ASL, he's nothing.

No leagues won is just a crappy player

Titiles are important in this and Snow doesn't have one and in general is just a shitty player in (televised) tournaments

On August 19 2023 03:12 Smorrie wrote:
I tried to support a valid claim made earlier in this thread which got collectively disregarded, partially due to the tone of voice and misinterpretation.

He can be the best everywhere, as long as he doesn't win ASL, he's nothing.

If Snow wins ASL, do you think it will have any significant impact on his current perceived greatness and his future legacy?

I'm arguing that, while an ASL title means a player IS in fact accomplished, the lack of an ASL title does not mean that they're NOT accomplished.

On August 19 2023 04:38 TMNT wrote:
Actually I didn't notice he called Royal a cheese player (probably because Royal cheesed a few times in his run to his ASL title). Proved that this guy has no clue about the current scene. He just watches ASL and thinks he knows it all.

ASL titles mean everything. Just like OSL and MSL (lesser) titles meant everything in the past. Jyj and Shuttle, and even Royal, will go down in history bigger than Snow and Sea for that matter. That's just the way it is.

How is that equal to your argument:


which is more or less in agreement with Magic Power:

On August 19 2023 03:21 Ideas wrote:


Yea I always thought it was strange that ASL never had the same soundproofing equipment that KESPA used but now we have a pretty clear-cut case of the lack of said equipment directly affecting the outcome of a game. It's really about time ASL installs some soundproof booths on their set to avoid this going forward.

On August 19 2023 06:12 Smorrie wrote:


I agree Royal is not defined by cheese play. He did have quite some cheese openings through his ASL run though. I'd argue that all those openers were part of a calculated tournament strategy to not become too predictable and survive all the way to the end, even though that's just pure speculation.

Aside from that, I also agree there are quite some baits posted lol... before those posts there are some gems to be found in the thread... your average ASL viewer ^_^;;;



^ that's what resonated with me originally



Fair point - I think it still has its own subtle difference, but I mainly wanted to offer a different perspective. Ultimately though, that quote is from a post from before I actively entered the discussion and it was not on my radar.

I think SoulKey, Soma & Hero are in a similar predicament. They are all waiting to catch momentum where they rise above and become able to force their will upon their opponents at any time & make a mark in the history books. Snow appears to be the guy closest to making that happen right now, but has been failing to do so. Until then they are all just amongst the 'greatest players', waiting to join the legendary ranks of players like ZerO, JD, Bisu, etc.

I have extensively exceeded my annual post capacity though - I need to go back into lurking, these useless discussions are a terrible way to use my limited time >_<