• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:02
CET 12:02
KST 20:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 24 - Info & Preview0WTL 2023 Winter - Week 8 & 9 Recap6WTL 2023 Winter - Week 7 Results/Week 8 Preview6WTL 2023 Winter - Week 6 Results/Week 7 Preview1Solar wins Code S Season 3 (2023)16
Community News
ESL Open Week #203: Solar, MaxPax, Dark win2ESL Open Week #202: Dark, Clem, MaxPax win2EPT Winter Regionals - Serral, Astrea, Oliveira win3EPT Winter Regionals - Replay Pack7ESL Open Week #201: Cure, Clem, MaxPax win3
StarCraft 2
General
HomeStory Cup 24 - Info & Preview WTL 2023 Winter - Week 8 & 9 Recap ESL Open Week #203: Solar, MaxPax, Dark win David Kim, Blizzard vets to work on new RTS Astrea "People Are Angry, But SC2 Balance is Good"
Tourneys
[AfreecaTV Pro Series] Classic vs Ryung [WTL 2023] Winter - Week 9 INu's Battles#6 [ Cure vs ByuN ] [AfreecaTV Pro Series] herO vs Cure KSL Week 36
Strategy
Where do I go to find pro replays of new patch? Simple Questions Simple Answers TL Strategy Spawning Tool Build Thread
Custom Maps
Could someone fix the 1V1 OBS arcade game? "Macro mechanic energy exceeded limit" The Serral Problem: Where is active zerg play? Cyclone redesign Proposal video
External Content
Mutation # 391 Explosive Hunt Mutation # 397 Locked and Loaded Mutation # 396 In the Name of Love Mutation # 395 Call of the Void
Brood War
General
Is there a way to enter lobbies with passwords? Queen's phantom pain blacksheepwall.tv Cosmonarchy BW match commentaries! Name some of the old Clans/Teams
Tourneys
800$ Proleague North America vs Latam [BSL17] Grand Finals - Sunday 18:30 CET BSL17 LB Finals: Bonyth vs Dewalt - Saturday 18:30 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Firebat vs Hydra? [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player TvT notes I took on 1-1-1
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Diablo IV Nintendo Switch Thread Destiny 2 - PC/Xbox/PS4 FF7 remake for PS4 announced
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion TI 2023
League of Legends
[Summer Split] LoL Esports General Discussion
Heroes of the Storm
[Show] Heroes Chop Shop - Designing New Heroes
Hearthstone
Is Hearthstone Gambling?
TL Mafia
Winter Warfare Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread Liquid Arcanon News [0]Paper [410]TL.net/forum/mafia Appeal Disambiguation 1.02 Everybody smurfs for TTT mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Bitcoin discussion thread South American Politics thread NASA and the Private Sector
Fan Clubs
The Flash Fan Club The Stephano Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2023 - 2024 Football Thread 2023 NFL/CFB Season NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022 Thread
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers Really need help with this - Starcraft crash Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Dark Theme! Ask TL Staff Anything The Automated Ban List
Blogs
TL.net/mafia Appeal Dis…
saiyanchor3x
The StarCraft O…
TheStarCraftObserver
AI, Gaming, and Human Skil…
Hildegard
Hypercoven RTS (25 Updates of)…
a11
about the LAN tournament on t…
sHER1N
10044444
Vivax
I composed another piano so…
Jubinell
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2012 users

[ASL16] Ro24 Group C - Page 10

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 Next All
Peeano
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Netherlands4325 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-18 11:22:09
August 18 2023 11:11 GMT
#181
Tbf Bisu did go carriers that game and thus still giving Flash a win

With Shuttle vs Royal, while it wouldn't have been auto-win for Shuttle if the crowd didn't interfere, I feel like it would be silly to say the interference didn't (significantly) decrease Shuttle's chance. Unlike Flash, Shuttle didn't win. It's commendable Shuttle put out any potential fires.

I mentioned booth in an earlier post, because I imagine it's better than nothing at all. I believe it's something ASL could invest in given we're on the 16th edition already.
FBH #1!
Smorrie
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Netherlands2861 Posts
August 18 2023 16:47 GMT
#182
Honestly, I don't really see the problem. Fans can like whoever they like. Ironically, I'd say trying to enforce who people should hold in higher regard is the actual issue ^_^;

Skill level benchmarks just aren't very impactful for one's legacy - that's the discussion I tuned into. Even though it appears it's difficult to separate these from each other and the discussion easily gets clouded.

Winning an OSL/ASL isn't the be all and end all, but it generally does a lot more for one's legacy. It's what people remember most and what goes down in the history books.

Do you honestly remember who were top contenders near the end of the KESPA era? I wouldn't know. I know Flash & JD duked it out. JD had a killer final in MSL with a controversial power outage. Fantasy finally won an OSL when Flash & JD got eliminated. JangBi won an OSL and added himself to the elite protoss ranks. What about other players in that era? I honestly can not recall any proleague records, except for some generic narratives. That's the power of winning the most prestigious tournaments.
It has a strong technique, but it lacks oo.
RJBTV
Profile Joined December 2022
166 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-18 17:15:42
August 18 2023 17:11 GMT
#183
On August 19 2023 01:47 Smorrie wrote:
Honestly, I don't really see the problem. Fans can like whoever they like. Ironically, I'd say trying to enforce who people should hold in higher regard is the actual issue ^_^;

Skill level benchmarks just aren't very impactful for one's legacy - that's the discussion I tuned into. Even though it appears it's difficult to separate these from each other and the discussion easily gets clouded.

Winning an OSL/ASL isn't the be all and end all, but it generally does a lot more for one's legacy. It's what people remember most and what goes down in the history books.

Do you honestly remember who were top contenders near the end of the KESPA era? I wouldn't know. I know Flash & JD duked it out. JD had a killer final in MSL with a controversial power outage. Fantasy finally won an OSL when Flash & JD got eliminated. JangBi won an OSL and added himself to the elite protoss ranks. What about other players in that era? I honestly can not recall any proleague records, except for some generic narratives. That's the power of winning the most prestigious tournaments.


or it is a sign of a bad memory .
We weren't talking about being allowed to like someone or not, we're talking about saying someone is bad when they clearly are not, simply because they refuse to acknowledge more than one benchmark. you missed the point there xd. Likewise are the Kespa era achievements still relevant in ranking today's players? I think they aren't. They are relevant when talking about Kespa era achievements.
WGT-Baal
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
France3002 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-18 17:29:42
August 18 2023 17:28 GMT
#184
btw I m sorry if this whole side discussion started due to my little banter at my fellow active TL-er regarding snow s skill and prediction coming into this ASL. I intended it mostly in jest.

Him losing wrecked my liquibet as well (again).
Snow has amazing reaver control and is a great Protoss now. I wouldnt consider him the best protoss ever or even top 5, but it s because I started watching pro BW a while ago and I ve seen a lot of things, possibly nostalgia tinted or also due to the fact the scene was a bit more intense back then in the KeSPA era. I would absolutely consider him in the top 3 post kespa P for sure (with Rain and Bisu).

Kespa achievements are relevant if you start bringing up discussions about "best of all time" because all time includes Kespa and also the "dark years" before ASL. SSL was not quite the same skillwise though.
The game has changed a lot since then, so it would be fairer to split achievements between Kespa era, and ASL/KSL era.
Former WCG ref, WGTour.com and Fra-A admin, ash admin, TDR NW Team NEU captain and BWCL Head Admin -> retired, thanks everyone for everything over the 2+ decades :)
Smorrie
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Netherlands2861 Posts
August 18 2023 18:12 GMT
#185
You guys are pivoting around the point a lot. Nobody said Snow is a bad player, not even the bait posts that sparked the discussion.

I tried to support a valid claim made earlier in this thread which got collectively disregarded, partially due to the tone of voice and misinterpretation.

I'm missing your point because you are having side discussions of your own. Just like your (straw man) argument regarding JD and Queen. You'll have a very difficult time finding people on TL who think JD is still the top dog, as well as people who do not regard Queen as an elite player. I'd say even say that outside of TL these people are a very small minority.

Let me reverse the argument;
If Snow wins ASL, do you think it will have any significant impact on his current perceived greatness and his future legacy?
It has a strong technique, but it lacks oo.
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States7903 Posts
August 18 2023 18:21 GMT
#186
On August 18 2023 20:11 Peeano wrote:
Tbf Bisu did go carriers that game and thus still giving Flash a win

With Shuttle vs Royal, while it wouldn't have been auto-win for Shuttle if the crowd didn't interfere, I feel like it would be silly to say the interference didn't (significantly) decrease Shuttle's chance. Unlike Flash, Shuttle didn't win. It's commendable Shuttle put out any potential fires.

I mentioned booth in an earlier post, because I imagine it's better than nothing at all. I believe it's something ASL could invest in given we're on the 16th edition already.


Yea I always thought it was strange that ASL never had the same soundproofing equipment that KESPA used but now we have a pretty clear-cut case of the lack of said equipment directly affecting the outcome of a game. It's really about time ASL installs some soundproof booths on their set to avoid this going forward.
I like starcraft
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia18906 Posts
August 18 2023 19:12 GMT
#187
On August 19 2023 03:12 Smorrie wrote:
You guys are pivoting around the point a lot. Nobody said Snow is a bad player, not even the bait posts that sparked the discussion.

I tried to support a valid claim made earlier in this thread which got collectively disregarded, partially due to the tone of voice and misinterpretation.

I'm missing your point because you are having side discussions of your own. Just like your (straw man) argument regarding JD and Queen. You'll have a very difficult time finding people on TL who think JD is still the top dog, as well as people who do not regard Queen as an elite player. I'd say even say that outside of TL these people are a very small minority.

Let me reverse the argument;
If Snow wins ASL, do you think it will have any significant impact on his current perceived greatness and his future legacy?

Absolutely. Breaking the barriers that have kept him from winning it all would be huge. Same for BeSt.

For some of us, we don’t have time to watch every minute of BW, so the ASL is the definitive tournament to define legacy and greatness in this era. I love this tournament regardless of its potential cons or prizepool.
ModeratorOfiicial Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
TMNT
Profile Joined January 2021
1503 Posts
August 18 2023 19:38 GMT
#188
On August 19 2023 02:28 WGT-Baal wrote:
btw I m sorry if this whole side discussion started due to my little banter at my fellow active TL-er regarding snow s skill and prediction coming into this ASL. I intended it mostly in jest.

It's not you. It's the guy I'm about to "condemn" below.

On August 19 2023 03:12 Smorrie wrote:
Nobody said Snow is a bad player, not even the bait posts that sparked the discussion.

Are you sure? Here's a collection of that guy's words in this thread:

On August 16 2023 19:56 Kaolla wrote:
I mean I do think Royal is a cheese terran anyway

Snow losing in the RO24... Seriously, how can anyone take this guy seriously.... Best PvT... yea, right, best choker in the game.

Royal got through somewhat lucky in the RO24, nothing special about that? The dude really is nothing special. He beat a B-tier player today, yay, definitely is not on the level of the elites, but yea, we'll see that in the rest of ASL. Not sure what other terran you mean, but Jyj sure seems more impressive to me.

He can be the best everywhere, as long as he doesn't win ASL, he's nothing.

No leagues won is just a crappy player

Titiles are important in this and Snow doesn't have one and in general is just a shitty player in (televised) tournaments

Actually I didn't notice he called Royal a cheese player (probably because Royal cheesed a few times in his run to his ASL title). Proved that this guy has no clue about the current scene. He just watches ASL and thinks he knows it all.
TMNT
Profile Joined January 2021
1503 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-18 20:08:45
August 18 2023 20:08 GMT
#189
On August 19 2023 03:12 Smorrie wrote:
I tried to support a valid claim made earlier in this thread which got collectively disregarded, partially due to the tone of voice and misinterpretation.

I've read through what you said and nothing much to disagree. But the "valid claim" you support is non-existent.

Here's that claim by Kaolla:
He can be the best everywhere, as long as he doesn't win ASL, he's nothing.


How is that equal to your argument:
If Snow wins ASL, do you think it will have any significant impact on his current perceived greatness and his future legacy?

which is more or less in agreement with Magic Power:
I'm arguing that, while an ASL title means a player IS in fact accomplished, the lack of an ASL title does not mean that they're NOT accomplished.


Now come to think of it, I have to say Kaolla's argument is outright stupid, bordering on trollpost.
TornadoSteve
Profile Joined March 2018
762 Posts
August 18 2023 20:44 GMT
#190
no more upsets tho
light action rush bisu zero jd to the next round plz.
Smorrie
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Netherlands2861 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-18 21:19:26
August 18 2023 21:12 GMT
#191
On August 19 2023 04:38 TMNT wrote:
Actually I didn't notice he called Royal a cheese player (probably because Royal cheesed a few times in his run to his ASL title). Proved that this guy has no clue about the current scene. He just watches ASL and thinks he knows it all.


I agree Royal is not defined by cheese play. He did have quite some cheese openings through his ASL run though. I'd argue that all those openers were part of a calculated tournament strategy to not become too predictable and survive all the way to the end, even though that's just pure speculation.

Aside from that, I also agree there are quite some baits posted lol... before those posts there are some gems to be found in the thread... your average ASL viewer ^_^;;;

ASL titles mean everything. Just like OSL and MSL (lesser) titles meant everything in the past. Jyj and Shuttle, and even Royal, will go down in history bigger than Snow and Sea for that matter. That's just the way it is.


^ that's what resonated with me originally


How is that equal to your argument:
Show nested quote +
If Snow wins ASL, do you think it will have any significant impact on his current perceived greatness and his future legacy?


which is more or less in agreement with Magic Power:
Show nested quote +
I'm arguing that, while an ASL title means a player IS in fact accomplished, the lack of an ASL title does not mean that they're NOT accomplished.



Fair point - I think it still has its own subtle difference, but I mainly wanted to offer a different perspective. Ultimately though, that quote is from a post from before I actively entered the discussion and it was not on my radar.

I think SoulKey, Soma & Hero are in a similar predicament. They are all waiting to catch momentum where they rise above and become able to force their will upon their opponents at any time & make a mark in the history books. Snow appears to be the guy closest to making that happen right now, but has been failing to do so. Until then they are all just amongst the 'greatest players', waiting to join the legendary ranks of players like ZerO, JD, Bisu, etc.

I have extensively exceeded my annual post capacity though - I need to go back into lurking, these useless discussions are a terrible way to use my limited time >_<
It has a strong technique, but it lacks oo.
TornadoSteve
Profile Joined March 2018
762 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-18 21:44:54
August 18 2023 21:44 GMT
#192
On the other hand, choking onstage (unable to perform under pressure, "when it matter") should affect a player popularity and his overall skill, rightfully so.
Since Flash went to army, Snow was aiming at his throne and, unfortunately, with all those offline performance, hes not there yet. #1 contender obviously, at least in my opinion, but he needs to step up kind of like Light did from ASL 4,5 KSL 3,4 etc
outscar
Profile Joined September 2014
2768 Posts
August 19 2023 00:26 GMT
#193
On August 19 2023 03:21 Ideas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2023 20:11 Peeano wrote:
Tbf Bisu did go carriers that game and thus still giving Flash a win

With Shuttle vs Royal, while it wouldn't have been auto-win for Shuttle if the crowd didn't interfere, I feel like it would be silly to say the interference didn't (significantly) decrease Shuttle's chance. Unlike Flash, Shuttle didn't win. It's commendable Shuttle put out any potential fires.

I mentioned booth in an earlier post, because I imagine it's better than nothing at all. I believe it's something ASL could invest in given we're on the 16th edition already.


Yea I always thought it was strange that ASL never had the same soundproofing equipment that KESPA used but now we have a pretty clear-cut case of the lack of said equipment directly affecting the outcome of a game. It's really about time ASL installs some soundproof booths on their set to avoid this going forward.


How about a rule which says fans/casters need to STFU and stay silent during those type of moments? Problems ez solved.
sunbeams are never made like me...
RogerChillingworth
Profile Joined March 2010
2647 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-19 02:54:24
August 19 2023 02:52 GMT
#194
I just wish people would make more insightful posts about the games and bicker less about the players.

Yes, we get it, you think SnOw is great and you do not. Nothing is ever gained by waging a 10 page forum argument. People are just left exhausted and angry and those who came for neutral discussion are discouraged. Fandom is subjective. Valid arguments exist in both directions. Let's move on.
aka wilted_kale
RJBTV
Profile Joined December 2022
166 Posts
August 19 2023 11:14 GMT
#195
On August 19 2023 06:12 Smorrie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2023 04:38 TMNT wrote:
Actually I didn't notice he called Royal a cheese player (probably because Royal cheesed a few times in his run to his ASL title). Proved that this guy has no clue about the current scene. He just watches ASL and thinks he knows it all.


I agree Royal is not defined by cheese play. He did have quite some cheese openings through his ASL run though. I'd argue that all those openers were part of a calculated tournament strategy to not become too predictable and survive all the way to the end, even though that's just pure speculation.

Aside from that, I also agree there are quite some baits posted lol... before those posts there are some gems to be found in the thread... your average ASL viewer ^_^;;;

Show nested quote +
ASL titles mean everything. Just like OSL and MSL (lesser) titles meant everything in the past. Jyj and Shuttle, and even Royal, will go down in history bigger than Snow and Sea for that matter. That's just the way it is.


^ that's what resonated with me originally

Show nested quote +

How is that equal to your argument:
If Snow wins ASL, do you think it will have any significant impact on his current perceived greatness and his future legacy?


which is more or less in agreement with Magic Power:
I'm arguing that, while an ASL title means a player IS in fact accomplished, the lack of an ASL title does not mean that they're NOT accomplished.



Fair point - I think it still has its own subtle difference, but I mainly wanted to offer a different perspective. Ultimately though, that quote is from a post from before I actively entered the discussion and it was not on my radar.

I think SoulKey, Soma & Hero are in a similar predicament. They are all waiting to catch momentum where they rise above and become able to force their will upon their opponents at any time & make a mark in the history books. Snow appears to be the guy closest to making that happen right now, but has been failing to do so. Until then they are all just amongst the 'greatest players', waiting to join the legendary ranks of players like ZerO, JD, Bisu, etc.

I have extensively exceeded my annual post capacity though - I need to go back into lurking, these useless discussions are a terrible way to use my limited time >_<


I would argue Hero has been closest out of anyone going by the consistency in his somewhat recent results over all his tournaments.
ASL15 top 4.
ASL 14 top 4.
ASL 13 top 16
ASL 12 3rd.
ASL 11 3rd.
ASL 10 Top 16
(military break)
ASL 5 3rd.
ASL 4 2nd.
ASL 3 top 16.
ASL 2 top 8.
ASL 1 top 8.
WGT-Baal
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
France3002 Posts
August 19 2023 13:25 GMT
#196
On August 19 2023 09:26 outscar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2023 03:21 Ideas wrote:
On August 18 2023 20:11 Peeano wrote:
Tbf Bisu did go carriers that game and thus still giving Flash a win

With Shuttle vs Royal, while it wouldn't have been auto-win for Shuttle if the crowd didn't interfere, I feel like it would be silly to say the interference didn't (significantly) decrease Shuttle's chance. Unlike Flash, Shuttle didn't win. It's commendable Shuttle put out any potential fires.

I mentioned booth in an earlier post, because I imagine it's better than nothing at all. I believe it's something ASL could invest in given we're on the 16th edition already.


Yea I always thought it was strange that ASL never had the same soundproofing equipment that KESPA used but now we have a pretty clear-cut case of the lack of said equipment directly affecting the outcome of a game. It's really about time ASL installs some soundproof booths on their set to avoid this going forward.


How about a rule which says fans/casters need to STFU and stay silent during those type of moments? Problems ez solved.


As former staff/admin in big events with booths and public, let me tell you that this is always squarely the organizer s responsibility. ASL dropped the ball hard on that one, especially since better booth have been a thing almost literally anywhere else.
You cannot control fan's behaviour as a live audience (and shouldn't) and also the casters are here to entertain and be excited, or else what s the point?
The problem is indeed easily solved ... by better booths
Former WCG ref, WGTour.com and Fra-A admin, ash admin, TDR NW Team NEU captain and BWCL Head Admin -> retired, thanks everyone for everything over the 2+ decades :)
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9901 Posts
August 19 2023 16:58 GMT
#197
picking snow + soulkey on fantasy teams = eternal pain
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
moktira *
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Ireland1515 Posts
August 22 2023 10:53 GMT
#198
As a Protoss fan I'm feeling pretty low so far, Mini barely deserved to qualify in group A, Rain is gone, Snow, what the hell? Didn't even win one game, so disappointing... I'm a huge Bisu fan but been let down so much by him I just don't have any faith anymore, so all that's left is BeSt who always seems to choke.

I guess there's Free but don't see him getting out of his group -- though I'm one of these people who pretty much only follows ASLs now so he could be on form.
If in doubt, differentiate and set equal to zero
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4061 Posts
August 22 2023 12:19 GMT
#199
Its really weird to me that some of you guys even consider to compare Kespa with this era skill wise. Large player base with constant new talent incoming, playing in teams with coaches with schedules in special headquarters vs half time streamers, many of them being family guys with kids who prepare few days before the tournaments however they can. Like seriously?

p.s. of course since we can never have kespa vs nowadays tested everything is just an opinion, but prime Kespa will wipe the floor with nowadays players imo
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11029 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-08-24 19:57:03
August 24 2023 19:30 GMT
#200
I am unbelievably salty about game 1

….

I am the Dead Sea. Feels like 2013.

Man 2 asls a year for this is kinda killing me. Bleh I just want more snow not these b tier terrans and zergs. Not a good start to the ro24

Wish the tastosis stream did more than a 2x a year tournament.
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
INu's Battles
11:00
INu's Battles#6
Cure vs Dark
LiquipediaDiscussion
Replay Cast
09:00
ESL Open Cup #203 Asia
CranKy Ducklings105
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 391
Crank 217
Forgg! 54
SortOf 7
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3955
Calm 3941
GuemChi 3903
Rain 1905
Jaedong 456
hero 421
Zeus 336
EffOrt 318
Tyson 280
ggaemo 228
[ Show more ]
Mini 167
Sharp 151
Last 133
BeSt 133
Light 118
Rush 112
Hyun 87
ZerO 77
firebathero 69
ToSsGirL 65
Mong 60
Soulkey 55
Shinee 54
ZerO(Twitch) 35
Jumperer 31
sorry 29
ivOry 24
Noble 17
Hm[arnc] 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
zelot 7
Purpose 3
Sea.KH 0
Dota 2
XcaliburYe1496
syndereN388
BananaSlamJamma83
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
olofmeister1787
shoxiejesuss375
flusha236
x6flipin151
NBK_85
Other Games
summit1g13440
singsing1815
gofns1230
XaKoH 388
OGKoka 169
NuckleDu144
NeuroSwarm85
rGuardiaN60
Organizations
Other Games
B2W.Neo1161
StarCraft 2
ESL.tv398
StarCraft: Brood War
StarcraftVOD2
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 3
• aXEnki
• intothetv
• Gussbus
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamez Trovo
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
• Poblha
StarCraft: Brood War
• sscaitournament2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
League of Legends
• Ambition6000
Upcoming Events
OSC
5h 58m
OSC
12h 58m
Gerald vs Nice
Ryung vs Nicoract
sOs vs YoungYakov
Krystianer vs DIMAGA
HomeStory Cup
1d
Korean StarCraft League
1d 15h
Alpha Pro Series
1d 21h
Classic vs Ryung
HomeStory Cup
2 days
Hatchery Cup
2 days
BSL: GosuLeague
2 days
Doodle vs Razz
Jaeyun vs MadiNho
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
2 days
HomeStory Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
Showmatch
3 days
FuturE vs Strange
FuturE vs Cham
BSL: ProLeague
3 days
Mihu vs TBD
ESL Open Cup
3 days
ESL Open Cup
4 days
ESL Open Cup
4 days
ESL Pro Tour
4 days
ESL Pro Tour
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSCL Season 1
ESL Winter: Europe
META Madness #8 Qualifier #4
ESL Challenger Jonköping 2023

Ongoing

FS Mania
KCM Team League Season 1
BSL Season 17
Copa Latinoamericana S2
2023 StarCraft PC Cafe Tournament
2023 StarCraft PC Cafe Tournament: Youth
WTL 2023 Winter
ESL Challenger League S46 NA
ESL Challenger League S46 EU
ESL Challenger League S46 AP
Elisa Masters Espoo 2023

Upcoming

CSL 11: 2023 Winter
Platinum Anchor Qualifying S2
Bombastic 25th Anniversary LAN
Torneo Internacional de StarCraft
IEM Katowice 2024
ESL Winter
HSC XXIV
META Madness #8
META Madness #8 Qualifier #5
ESL Challenger Atlanta 2023
BLAST Premier World Final
ESL Impact League S4 Finals
BetBoom Dacha
CCT Online Finals #5
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2023 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.