[ASL13] Ro24 Group A - Page 6

On February 09 2022 01:20 Djabanete wrote:
Why hate on Beast? Cheese is part of the game. It's not whether you cheese, it's how you cheese. The 4-pool proved to be devastating on a map where the lings could avoid the scouting SCV and still reach T quickly. I respect a Zerg who knows when it's time to 4-pool and keep the fear alive. Don't you guys know that Jaedong used to 4-pool all the time, even in big games?

As for the failed lurker all-in, it looked like a really powerful build. The corsair was NOT going to detect it in time. It only failed because Shuttle had star sense and made four cannons BLIND. You don't see the Protoss do that every game. Obviously Shuttle had a hunch something dirty was coming his way, but he was taking a huge gamble with that number of cannons in the main and natural.

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No, go to the YouTube channel of the BeSt man:
https://www.youtube.com/c/도재욱TV/videos
There are 8-minute edited videos that capture the most important aspects of the matches.

I agree with you, that's why I love StarCraft. All of build order, strategy is not sure win. Although some of them looks very strong, example: 9 pool, 12 nexus, 2 factories before CC. So I can do everything that I like in StarCraft, example: 14 CC vs Protoss, mech vs Zerg...

I saw Flash built 2 bunkers without know Calm played lurkers in Proleague. Sense of gosu is so cool!

Lazyer

United States368 Posts

February 08 2022 23:41 GMT

#102

Ugh BarrackS is making it real difficult to be a fan, consistently qualifies for Ro24 but just as consistently gets rolled in some supremely questionable games.

As cheesy as Beast played, it was refreshing to see how cheese looks so bad when deflected by a pro. It wasn't even close in the Best and Shuttle games.

RowdierBob

Australia13358 Posts

February 08 2022 23:53 GMT

#103

I'm the disagree side of this one. Beast's play was exceptionally poor. It's one thing to prepare certain all-ins against a better opponent. In a one off game like these, it's your best chance of winning. But Beast didn't even do that.

Game 1 - He hides his build relatively well before inexplicably letting the probe scout his nat and the extra lings around the 3:40 mark. Easy win for Best once this happens. If you're going to try do this, you can't let that scouting probe into your nat like that.

Game 2 - We could give Beast the benefit of the doubt here in that most Terrans could be doing that early expand wall at the nat during practice sessions which give 4 pool a high probability of winning. Fine, whatevs.

Game 3 - he puts in no effort here. His 9 pool + early gas is scouted. It's pretty obvious an all-in of some sort of coming. Shuttle just needs to figure out if it's coming through the front or if it's mutas. He was able to hedge against both and win easily.

I'm fine with players gambling against better opponents, but Beast picked probably the two worst builds he could have gone with in games 1 and 3. They had such low probabilities of succeeding and if you're not going to put any effort into blocking your opponent scouting your shitty builds, why even bother?

Djabanete

United States2786 Posts

February 09 2022 05:03 GMT

#104

I'm not a good enough player to know what Beast could have or should have done to deny information to the Protoss players. It's possible that the builds were poorly thought out, or maybe poorly executed, or both. I do know when a player loses the game while cheesing, that player often looks really inept, even if they did all they could and lost to a throw of the dice --- after all, cheese is about adding variance to the contest --- but that doesn't rule out the possibility of losing while cheesing through truly poor play.

What I meant is that it's silly to judge players harshly for deciding to cheese, and it's also tempting to be too results-oriented instead of process-oriented: "They lost, so the cheese was dumb." I realize that is not quite what you were initially saying, but it sounded that way until you elaborated.

As for whether Beast's builds were fundamentally bad, I do wonder what kind of build you're supposed to do against Best and Shuttle when you know your skill is less than theirs. What was Beast supposed to do? (Actual question, not rhetorical.)