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On August 21 2019 21:41 LG)Sabbath wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 20:12 GTR wrote:
This match was over in less than 90 minutes which is an insult to the fans who came to the studio. Afreeca needs to somehow make these matches more competitive or people will stop watching.
Admit it: everyone reading this thread was disappointed by the one-sided matches and would have preferred a five game series.
How the hell did Rain prepare? Did he even watch Flash's games? Flash didn't do anything unusual or extraordinary, Rain just reacted poorly to everything. Well let's see, he blocked the obs and made 3 expansions with 2 factories and no armory in game 1, something that is insane for any terran to do and also not his usual style, he's known for fast upgrades off 2 bases Game 2 he hid a factory in the middle of the map after expanding, never saw that before that late in the game Game 3 rain rolled over and died due to bad micro Nothing unusual?
actually the game on sylphid is more standard than you think the 1siege into speed/mines 4 vultures into triple cc is a standard meta opening from like +/-3 years ago, he played the map alot like last did opting for fast 4base he just saw he could get away with taking a 4th base fast you can open up 4base on sylphid easy a bit like CB just less comfortable but still something alot of terrans would opt on going fast 4base on sylphid.
its kinda like we saw how flash plays CB dominating every TvP +/- 3years ago
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but Rain bo against that was pretty bad, 2 base arbiter its not what you wanna do
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Northern Ireland26304 Posts
Man that was brutal, good thing I didn’t wake up to watch it live.
I don’t understand how Flash is still this good, between needing a bionic arm, plus the bank he’s earned from his career and a big stream, it says a lot about his sheer competitiveness and love for the game that he keeps up such a high level.
I’m no BW vet so I assume it’s still a fair bit below his absolute peak, but his rivals from those times don’t seem to be anywhere near theirs.
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Game 1: Flash must have seen enough games from Rain that he felt comfortable doing a gasless expand and got away with it (he seldom does this build nowadays vs other Protosses). Flash played safe afterwards setting up a turret ring and after determining Rain didn't go reaver he went for a quick 4th. You seldom see fast 4 bases nowadays because if Protoss goes speed shuttle it's impossible to defend everything at once. From there Rain was fighting an uphill battle, he lost his first obs and by the time he found out about the fast 3rd and 4th base it was too late. If you let Flash macro from 4 bases untouched he is unstoppable.
The hallucinations were a cool move but the attack did not do much except buy some time. Rain needed to expand to the other main to keep the pressure. From there it was a straightforward game for Flash, vulture harass while building up his tank count and roll Protoss over.
Game 2: Again Flash doing a calculated build and got away with gases expand. The proxy fac was a cool move, even if you don't get much damage done it's not a big deal. Once the vultures got in and scouted the carriers it was game over and Flash just executed a nice timing push. Really weird from Rain not to go reaver into carrier which is a much more natural transition.
Game 3: Nothing much to say here, just bad micro from Rain, he must have been tilted by the earlier games.
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Is there going to be a 3rd place match? edit- nevermind there is one according to liquipedia.
That was a brutal series but I expected flash to dominate. Whenever watching him in a macro game it's crazy how well optimized he is. Generally protoss is up at least 10-20 supply at all times in a TvP but with flash he's almost always even on supply. He just knows everything to do in any situation. In game 3 he made gas steal proxy gate look like the dumbest move ever haha.
Rain is still fantastic but got so outclassed in this match. I think snow will do better though, he's a much more flexible PvTer and knows he needs to go and seek out edges against flash instead of letting flash dictate the pace of the game. I still think flash will win 4-1 or 4-2 though, but I'd love to see Snow take it to game 7.
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On August 21 2019 22:35 onlystar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 21:41 LG)Sabbath wrote:On August 21 2019 20:12 GTR wrote:
This match was over in less than 90 minutes which is an insult to the fans who came to the studio. Afreeca needs to somehow make these matches more competitive or people will stop watching.
Admit it: everyone reading this thread was disappointed by the one-sided matches and would have preferred a five game series.
How the hell did Rain prepare? Did he even watch Flash's games? Flash didn't do anything unusual or extraordinary, Rain just reacted poorly to everything. Well let's see, he blocked the obs and made 3 expansions with 2 factories and no armory in game 1, something that is insane for any terran to do and also not his usual style, he's known for fast upgrades off 2 bases Game 2 he hid a factory in the middle of the map after expanding, never saw that before that late in the game Game 3 rain rolled over and died due to bad micro Nothing unusual? actually the game on sylphid is more standard than you think the 1siege into speed/mines 4 vultures into triple cc is a standard meta opening from like +/-3 years ago, he played the map alot like last did opting for fast 4base he just saw he could get away with taking a 4th base fast you can open up 4base on sylphid easy a bit like CB just less comfortable but still something alot of terrans would opt on going fast 4base on sylphid. its kinda like we saw how flash plays CB dominating every TvP +/- 3years ago
Oh I wasn't aware that this was a thing for a while, even then sylphid doesn't look as suited to it as CB where you can defend all bases from 1-2 places, in sylphid you have to spread your tank line and a more macro P build might roll you over, maybe Flash had this situation planned out and didn't really rely on killing the obs
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It's much harder to defend against a bigger army or shuttle speed, Rain had neither.
Also, hallucination was cool but didn't accomplish anything. Flash had most of his tanks exposed in front of his nat when the fake arbs went into the main, but Rain didn't spot it (no obs there), so he just recalled the zealots on top of the vultures. If he kills the tanks there, he can probably force Flash back to his nat for a while.
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On August 21 2019 21:14 ColdLava wrote:
I mean, Bisu gets shit for, while having a very good PvT, not pulling it together against the top tier terrans especially in important moments (finals vs Mind, semifinals vs Flash and Fantasy). But even without a stomping of Savior, people would have to be out of their mind to criticize Bisu for anything to do with PvZ.
Their narratives are quite different, Bisu only struggled PvT against the very best, and Rain is just not good at PvT or PvZ.
Look at his name/location--that guy pigeonholes everything into Bisu narrative when he gets the chance.
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This series as a single image
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/uS50DIp.png)
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Canada5565 Posts
On August 21 2019 21:14 ColdLava wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 21:05 BisuDagger wrote:
Rain needs to beat a non-protoss race of he wants to join the protoss champion elite. It's uncanny how similar he is to Bisu in his record. Had Bisu never beaten savior he would also have to take shit for only winning PvPs and losing his only non-PvP to Mind. I have no doubt Rain will have many more semifinal appearances. He may have lost hard here, but he is still consistent as hell. As for Flash, he played brilliantly. I'm happy for the short series so he can hide as much from Snow as possible and for the sake of his wrists. His last finals for now will be great to watch. I mean, Bisu gets shit for, while having a very good PvT, not pulling it together against the top tier terrans especially in important moments (finals vs Mind, semifinals vs Flash and Fantasy). But even without a stomping of Savior, people would have to be out of their mind to criticize Bisu for anything to do with PvZ. Their narratives are quite different, Bisu only struggled PvT against the very best, and Rain is just not good at PvT or PvZ.
Date DESC League Map Opponent Result
+ 12-04-08 SKP11-12 Proleague.. (Twilight) Neo Chain Reaction (T)Flash Win
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It was completely evident (unsurprisingly) that Rain didn't believe he stands a chance in winning Bo5 against Flash, and so.. he played accordingly.
Glad to know we'll have an interesting finals 
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Wow, I can only imagine how relieved Rain must feel when he realizes that he is unlikely to suffer a humiliation of a similar magnitude for the next two years. What a hard spanking. I imagined a 3 - 0 for Flash, surely. But in this decisive manner - not at all.
Still, this has to be an extremely useful loss for Rain. The mistakes he did he can now try to remedy and become a stronger player.
It was an exciting set of games, all in all. One that begs for "Unimpressed Flash" memes but still - it is entertaining to see how Flash dismantles the opposition.
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Even tho Rain is an absolute beast, Flash made him look like a beginner.
Snow should be able to show bit more exciting PvTs.
Gotta root for Flash tho since it's his last tournament.
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Haven't had time to watch the games yet but I expected nothing less than a 3-0 from Flash in his last tournament. And what a beastly finals we'll have; their clash in s5 was one of the best post-KeSpa series.
LEE YOUNG-HO FIGHTING!!
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1584 Posts
Thank you flash for giving us this incredible final.
Snow has such beautiful PvT and Flash looked immortal today vs Rain.
Incredible end to Flash's career.
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Expected. Rain is a more of a PvP specialist anyway.
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On August 21 2019 21:46 LV_426 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 21:14 ColdLava wrote:On August 21 2019 21:05 BisuDagger wrote:
Rain needs to beat a non-protoss race of he wants to join the protoss champion elite. It's uncanny how similar he is to Bisu in his record. Had Bisu never beaten savior he would also have to take shit for only winning PvPs and losing his only non-PvP to Mind. I have no doubt Rain will have many more semifinal appearances. He may have lost hard here, but he is still consistent as hell. As for Flash, he played brilliantly. I'm happy for the short series so he can hide as much from Snow as possible and for the sake of his wrists. His last finals for now will be great to watch. I mean, Bisu gets shit for, while having a very good PvT, not pulling it together against the top tier terrans especially in important moments (finals vs Mind, semifinals vs Flash and Fantasy). But even without a stomping of Savior, people would have to be out of their mind to criticize Bisu for anything to do with PvZ. Their narratives are quite different, Bisu only struggled PvT against the very best, and Rain is just not good at PvT or PvZ. Rain is not that good at PvT ? thats something new, did you check his pvt win ratio from Afreeca ? Losing 0:3 against Flash =/= you are not at certain mu..
I shouldn't have said "not good" however I meant in the context of the very very best.
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On August 21 2019 20:16 mishimaBeef wrote:
re: what is afreeca supposed to do about it?
run a league type system with championship belts where flash is defending it often... damn too bad he's taking a break
This seems like an idea. Suppose a belt for each matchup, plus a champion's belt, and having a UFC style card twice a week could be sweet.
Knockout touraments play fierce for week or weekend timetables, but do seem somewhat lacking over 2-3 month durations.
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United Kingdom12025 Posts
On August 22 2019 02:17 keit wrote:
Thank you flash for giving us this incredible final.
Snow has such beautiful PvT and Flash looked immortal today vs Rain.
Incredible end to Flash's career.
It's not an end to his career, he's still going to play teamleagues, just no big solo tournaments anymore.
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United States1655 Posts
On August 21 2019 20:15 asel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 20:13 Jackal03 wrote:On August 21 2019 20:13 TaardadAiel wrote:On August 21 2019 20:10 KamMoye wrote:
What a joke. Complete embarrassment. There are levels to this. Will it even be worth watching Finals? Yes, this is where the Protoss actually can PvT like a god. Snow is the god killer, if anyone can beat flash in PvT is him To be fair he Snow beat FlaSh on anti-FlaSh maps.
No, he didn't. Flash won the maps that were Protoss favored (Transistor and the island map) but lost on the more balanced ones (Third World, Gladiator).
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EPT
