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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On November 01 2017 01:43 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: only effort destroyed flash in a final bo5 in both eras . u welcome That RAK from back in KeSPA era is still one of the most incredible wins of all time. Yea he played some aggressive games but to come back 0-2 and win from FlaSh. Damn! | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
speed zealots are an obvious assistant to carriers and just stomped over the marines which had only like 2-3 production cycles out of the barracks i suspect flash just wanted to end the series in a flashy way (pun very much so intended) | ||
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RainmanMP
United States1698 Posts
On November 01 2017 00:40 BigFan wrote: no, he went deep 6 or 8 or w/e precisely because by the time he scouted the carriers, he wouldn't have had time to get enough goliath up. Bisu also barely hung out at one point. His zealots were evaporating and he had to pull his carriers back. He managed to get the reaver just in time. Fair point. However, Flash definitely seemed to be the superior player to me by a noticeable margin to me. I would say Bisu won this game more on happenstance than thoroughly outplaying Flash as Flash did in the games he won | ||
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Demurity
United States424 Posts
On November 01 2017 02:03 mishimaBeef wrote: deep 6 / 8 is never done off 3 command centres speed zealots are an obvious assistant to carriers and just stomped over the marines which had only like 2-3 production cycles out of the barracks i suspect flash just wanted to end the series in a flashy way (pun very much so intended) To clarify, (even the caster): just because terran builds barracks against protoss doesn't mean the build is deep 6. The bio switch was a timing that he barely missed the window by probably 30 seconds. You can see that aside from the initial scan of the 2 stargates, his followup scan showed 2 carriers popping out. At this point, flash knows he needs to go asap since the cars came out before he got a couple production cycles. It's not a good feeling to know that you are being rushed and are on the clock. It's a viable strategy against early carriers since marines pick off interceptors early until they max out on 8. IMO, it's unlikely the thought of winning with an exclamation crossed Flash's mind. However, it is probable that he didn't want to play a long game on Crossing Field against carriers. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
This series could have been a lot better. Bisu should have won the second game due to Flash's obvious vision-mistake. Flash was caught off guard, unsieged but Bisu didn't take advantage of it and instead of killing a majority of Flash's tanks he decided to save them. Anyway, Flash fighting!! | ||
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Barneyk
Sweden310 Posts
 In the first game, Bisu picked up the reaver before it fired twice and those 2 reaver shots made all the difference and Flash won with that basic push. The timing is super hard but Bisu can do better, I was so sure he was gonna hold but when you nullify 2 reaver shots it just doesn't work. In the 2nd game he wasted like 40 army supply to kill 2 supply depots for no reason and then overextended when he had 2 major stasises but the stasises acted like a wall. I just expected more from this matchup, Flash was solid as hell but Bisus mistakes made his path to victory easy. I mean, it isn't easy to play flawlessly and Flash did. So it's not like he got lucky, but it never felt like a battle. Bisu made some major mistakes, Flash exploited them and won easy. 3rd game was fun but it felt like Flash went with a funky strategy as he was up 2-0. 4th game was just, I don't know, Flash being to good and Bisu not really finding a way. | ||
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nurle
Norway308 Posts
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Demurity
United States424 Posts
On November 01 2017 02:43 nurle wrote: Need someone to step up and really challenge Flash or people will get bored Larva was the chosen one, but he has fallen | ||
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leublix
493 Posts
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Barneyk
Sweden310 Posts
On November 01 2017 02:43 nurle wrote: Need someone to step up and really challenge Flash or people will get bored I am ok with Flash dominating but it is disappointing to see someone like Bisu make so many mistakes. And I never got the feel for any of Bisus builds that he had prepared specifically for Flash. | ||
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Barneyk
Sweden310 Posts
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traxamillion
104 Posts
Protoss is an easy race but also a flat out weak/bad race | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
Most boring bonjwa ever. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On November 01 2017 02:53 traxamillion wrote: Bisu was not close to flashes biggest threat in the tournament. Effort was. And larva, sk still were bigger threats. Protoss is an easy race but also a flat out weak/bad race Nope. Let's stop writing stupid stuff please. Considering the other more sensible part of your comment, I'd argue also that Bisu was about as big a threat to FlaSh as you can get, due to the nature and unpredictability of PvT. Significantly more dangerous in terms of early threats and mistakes. Effort has a unique playstyle, and insane mechanics that makes him a threat. Larva and SK are both great, but I'm not really convinced they have all that much of a chance against FlaSh. Statistics seem to support this as well, they both (EffOrt/SK) win about 35% of games versus him, that's like a 25% chance to win a Bo5 series. Bisu does better, coming in around 40% against FlaSh. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On November 01 2017 03:02 Dazed. wrote: Not even going to bother to watch the finals, a boring 3-0? No thanks. Flash is seriously starting to ruin these tournys for me, he beats everyone nonstop, they're not even fun games. I my as well stop watching flash games because I know how they call go. He plays a passive, turtely style and somehow scouts any and all attempts at cheese or trickery, and wins in late game. Most boring bonjwa ever. I usually agree with you, but FlaSh doesn't turtle bad at all. Just look at this series. G1 early attack, G2 went to 3-2 because he was behind, 100% typical terran play in general and necessary in this situation, G3 some cool marine stuff, G4 went from 150 supply attack. At best 0.5/4 games were what I'd call "turtly". Yea, the guy is dominant; but I love watching that. It's insane the things he figures out, and watching how he plays is just fascinating. It's like watching a guy running a 3:45 mile or lifting 1000lbs...the awe and beauty of those sorts of things make them worth watching in their own right. I'd like to see a challenger to FlaSh to add to the series drama, but watching FlaSh play BW is a special privilege in and of itself; and that level of mastery will never get old. Also, don't forget there is Bisu v Larva as part of finals for 3rd place match. Should be lots of great BW. | ||
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nurle
Norway308 Posts
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
People forget that Hero used to be an absolute monster towards the end of 2015, I hate seeing people say Larva who is completely unproven in big offline matches would be a better match than Hero for flash, the reality is both of them are at a MASSIVE disadvantage, nobody has the experience or consistency of flash, and at least hero has shown himself to be a top player over a long period of time, larva is an online hero. That's not to say larva isn't good, but let's be honest guys it's FLASH in an offline match. I'll be catching the finals live FOR SURE, can't wait, even if it's just a 3-0 flash stomp as L_Master says it's a treat to be able to see such mastery of the game we all covet so dearly. | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia936 Posts
Even in streamed games Bisu often throws a large early/mid game advantage against Flash, and most of his wins are from too-big early leads. Sometimes he barely scratches out a win lategame but it is usually cross positions and so on, this time on FS Flash just choked his main production. Yes, a ton of flair and precise management and very carefull execution is required to [not die instantly in a single mistake] to lategame T. It is probably somewhat unfair, Terran has much more of a chance to make a comeback/greater margin of error, etc. I still can't complain, there are P's who can manage that stage well(Best/Rain/Jangbi, sometimes even Snow with his reaver/carrier - each of the above has a unique style of handling lategame T's, and all of them work better than what Bisu does) And it is not like Zergs have it any easier against lategame T...yet they mostly just accept it as a fact of life and have crazy-difficult lategame management. | ||
Xxio
Canada5565 Posts
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