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On October 31 2017 22:58 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2017 22:55 Essbee wrote:On October 31 2017 22:53 TT1 wrote:On October 31 2017 22:52 usopsama wrote:On October 31 2017 22:40 TT1 wrote:On October 31 2017 22:36 Essbee wrote:On October 31 2017 22:34 TT1 wrote:On October 31 2017 22:26 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
TT1 would u be so kind and answer if we agree on this?
1) Bisus unit composition was not as good as it could have been (lack of hts and storm; shuttle with hts even better)
2) Bisus decision when, how, where and for how long to attack was bad
3) Bisus stasises were definitely not good (too far in front, stasised own units)
4) Bisus decision to let his two last nexuses (at the top of the map) die when he could have defended them (which he showed he could because he did so 5-10 seconds after the nexuses went down -_-) You've asked this numerous times so i won't be rude and ignore you but i don't understand what you're trying to achieve here, anyways: 1) Nope it wasn't he could have added HT's to make his army stronger, still doesn't mean he would have traded better tho (but yes it's more likely that he would have, still can't know if he would have killed enough to deny FlaSh from just marching to his nat) 2) Where he attacked wasn't wrong (at the bridge) but he should have backed up earlier 3) I agree, he should have stasis'ed the tanks at the back and taken out the tanks at the front with his army 4) I don't know but the game was already over once FlaSh took control of his nat, he couldn't move out with his main base army to help protect his top bases You are a good protoss player, wouldn't you agree that it was a mistake when he decided to attack flash's third on gold rush after losing two shuttles worth of stuff? I really don't see the point of him doing this, I only see it as a mistake and nothing else... No he played it right, the problem is he put himself in a losing position due to a lack of confidence. I even said that as the game was happening: Did he lack confidence when he got 0-3 by Sea? Na, FlaSh is clearly the only Terran that can crush Bisu and no other player except FlaSh is good enough to play Terran with the required skill level needed to beat a player of Bisu's calibre. /s Sample size, remember? I guess you missed the times when Bisu humiliated Sea? BO5 is a big enough sample size to cut down on variance tho 
yeah... ;p
Still think bisu wasn't very good at that time lol (and sea got demolished by flash right after anyway)
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I think maps and spawn locations played a much more important role than bisu playing bad or mech being OP. Really.
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god i like foreign broodwar. It's this nice place, where we see zerg/protoss win tournaments 
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I just want to say that it was a pleasure to watch with you all. Got home an hour ago. Watching live was indeed Hella special. I'll post some stuff tomorrow.
It was sad. Flash teared up and Bisu was heartbroken as he shouldered his backpack and left the studio. But as he left by one side, we all started clapping for him and cheering him as he walked out. It was beautiful and I want Bisu fans to know that he will be okay!
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On October 31 2017 23:05 Cele wrote:god i like foreign broodwar. It's this nice place, where we see zerg/protoss win tournaments
Not impossible for hero to win. :O
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On October 31 2017 23:07 intotheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2017 23:05 Cele wrote:god i like foreign broodwar. It's this nice place, where we see zerg/protoss win tournaments Not impossible for hero to win. :O
Flash ez.
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On October 31 2017 22:53 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2017 22:52 usopsama wrote:On October 31 2017 22:40 TT1 wrote:On October 31 2017 22:36 Essbee wrote:On October 31 2017 22:34 TT1 wrote:On October 31 2017 22:26 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
TT1 would u be so kind and answer if we agree on this?
1) Bisus unit composition was not as good as it could have been (lack of hts and storm; shuttle with hts even better)
2) Bisus decision when, how, where and for how long to attack was bad
3) Bisus stasises were definitely not good (too far in front, stasised own units)
4) Bisus decision to let his two last nexuses (at the top of the map) die when he could have defended them (which he showed he could because he did so 5-10 seconds after the nexuses went down -_-) You've asked this numerous times so i won't be rude and ignore you but i don't understand what you're trying to achieve here, anyways: 1) Nope it wasn't he could have added HT's to make his army stronger, still doesn't mean he would have traded better tho (but yes it's more likely that he would have, still can't know if he would have killed enough to deny FlaSh from just marching to his nat) 2) Where he attacked wasn't wrong (at the bridge) but he should have backed up earlier 3) I agree, he should have stasis'ed the tanks at the back and taken out the tanks at the front with his army 4) I don't know but the game was already over once FlaSh took control of his nat, he couldn't move out with his main base army to help protect his top bases You are a good protoss player, wouldn't you agree that it was a mistake when he decided to attack flash's third on gold rush after losing two shuttles worth of stuff? I really don't see the point of him doing this, I only see it as a mistake and nothing else... No he played it right, the problem is he put himself in a losing position due to a lack of confidence. I even said that as the game was happening: Did he lack confidence when he got 0-3 by Sea? Na, FlaSh is clearly the only Terran that can crush Bisu and no other player except FlaSh is good enough to play Terran with the required skill level needed to beat a player of Bisu's calibre. /s
You didn't have to be butthurt about it. I was just looking for your explanation.
If Bisu played perfectly against God, but lost because he lacked confidence, then why did he get 0-3 by Sea?
Bisu must have played absolutely perfectly against Sea, as well, when he got 0-3, right?
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On October 31 2017 23:07 intotheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2017 23:05 Cele wrote:god i like foreign broodwar. It's this nice place, where we see zerg/protoss win tournaments Not impossible for hero to win. :O
A game
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On October 31 2017 22:58 MaGic~PhiL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2017 22:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:
bisu should have won the fighting spirit game but he made really bad choices and engagements after he got to limit vs 150 supply. Then it would have been 2-2 and maybe bisu would win the final game.
What I see is players consistently losing because they fail to abuse the one weakness terran has - immobility. Bisu had limit, didn't have to engage flash's army, could keep flash on 3 bases, could have taken top right and built lots of gates there, instead sacrifices his army in a horrible engagement after stasising the front 10 tanks while allowing the back 15 to pummel him down. At that point, Flash could put on pressure towards bisu's main gateway concentration, and it was basically over.
Yes, protoss cannot cost-efficiently engage a full terran army. But they can get such an advantage before terran gets to that point that they end up having three different points for terran to attack, and then terran either needs to choose one of them (then toss can backstab with full army) or spread out to multiple points (at which point it's possible to engage again). I saw Flash winning today because he didn't make mistakes of significance and because Bisu made several crucial ones. It wasn't balance related. thank you and now the balance discussion really should stop at this point 1) Bisu did not lose this series because T>P or 200/200 mech is unbeatable; he lost it because he made sever mistakes 2) Racial imbalance alone does not exist; it depends on the maps; so saying T>P or Z>P is just stupid and obviously wrong that is it for me...I m out now I feel like some people just cant accept certain things (hi there TT1..)
I don't get what you think it is that i can't accept, i'm just stating my opinion and so is everyone else (on the general state of the game). If you don't believe me that's fine, i'm not force feeding people into believing me.
People are giving their opinions on why they think Terran isn't broken and i'm giving mine on why i think it is. I always call it like i see it and i honestly don't think im a biased person, i'm never afraid to admit being wrong whenever i am.
If people around here are overly sensitive and can't accept my statements and decide to hold a grudge against me then so be it. I can't do anything about that but i still won't hold back tho. I'm not asking you to believe what i'm saying, i believe what i'm saying, whether or not others want to believe me is entirely up to them. The problem is if you're trying to convince me otherwise then i expect to see valid arguments being made. I provided you with enough data on the current state of the game via the ladder rankings and touched on the strengths of Terran as a race in previous posts already.
Anyways i don't wanna derail this thread further more, at the end of the day 2 great players just played a huge match so i'll let you guys talk about the games.
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United States20661 Posts
Bisu's 200/200 army engagements have just not been that clean. It's how he lost to Sea too. His PvT just doesn't have the max army control of a prime Jangbi (so beautiful...).
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On October 31 2017 23:07 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2017 23:07 intotheheart wrote:On October 31 2017 23:05 Cele wrote:god i like foreign broodwar. It's this nice place, where we see zerg/protoss win tournaments Not impossible for hero to win. :O Flash ez.
It'd take a braver man than I to put money on hero's win.
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On October 31 2017 23:11 _Animus_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2017 23:07 intotheheart wrote:On October 31 2017 23:05 Cele wrote:god i like foreign broodwar. It's this nice place, where we see zerg/protoss win tournaments Not impossible for hero to win. :O A game
agreed. In a bo5, one silly all-in can be expected to work.
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If you really take that Bo5 as an example why Terran is OP in TvP, then you are biased TT1. Bisu played horribly and made so many crucial game ending mistakes in those games, whilst FlaSh haven't really made a single mistake (not even going Bio on Crossing Field, him scanning the Fleet Beacon lost him the game basically). The better player won in that series. There was no racial imbalance that you could observe from that Bo5. I will admit that playing against a 3 base turtle Terran is kind of difficult for Protoss, no question, but to say Terran is imbalanced in TvP basing it on that series makes you seem like a little balance cry baby (no offense intended). That is why people are backlashing at you. You just fade away the crucial mistakes Bisu did all series long and try to make it seem like Bisu played flawless and lost nevertheless.
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Norway28665 Posts
I'm not actually saying there is no racial imbalance. But Flash's TvT record is just as good as his tvz and tvp, no? I haven't seen recent statistics, but that was definitely my impression from when classicyellow83 was posting, and the most recent I could find (by shalashaska) had Flash with an 83% win rate TvT, 64% vs P and 78% vs Z. Flash is the best and his games vs Mind were significantly more one-sided than the games today vs Bisu - Bisu won one game and should have won another. So today cannot be blamed on imbalance, Flash simply played better.
And the imbalances that do exist can, on most of the maps currently played, be circumvented through better play. If Bisu lost just because his reaver micro was a tad off on several occasions (it was), that'd be somewhat of a problem with imbalance - if protoss needs to do frame-perfect shuttle pickup to deal with terran while terran can just siege, target, lay mines, that's not really fair. But Bisu lost because he made the wrong choices, at least in the fighting spirit game. (Game on gladiator was more about micro mistakes).
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I really enjoyed this series of games. Seemed like a roll over in Game 2 and 4 but the game on FS and Crossing fields was pretty fun to watch. Was chuckling to myself when I saw Flash going Deep six against Carriers.
Feel bad for Bisu but at least we get to see him against Larva in the 3rd place match. (there is still a 3rd place match right?)
I'm fairly confident Flash can beat Hero and claim his 3rd ASL. Can't wait for the next set of games. The attendance for these games tonight was great.
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not a single storm in 4 games seems... suboptimal
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We need JangBi and Fantasy to break the God again.
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On October 31 2017 23:47 StarscreamG1 wrote:
We need JangBi and Fantasy to break the God again.
Effort can do it too
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Unimpressed flash meme #2? ;D
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EPT
