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Afreeca Starleague Season 3
Afreeca Starleague Season 3![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZpDsafx.png)
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Afreeca TV (BisuDagger and FlashFTW)
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[ASL3] Ro24 Day 2
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
Afreeca TV (BisuDagger and FlashFTW) Twitch TV (Tasteless and Artosis) ASL Youtube Channel with both English and Korean Stream | ||
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
Also fix Snow's icon to protoss, Effort's to zerg, Free's to protoss. | ||
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Kare
Norway786 Posts
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Zariel
Australia1285 Posts
Effort n free to advance pls Ps: why are effort/snow/free race icons wrong? | ||
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razorsuKe
Canada2000 Posts
Here: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sospa/players/581_EffOrt http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sospa/players/652_Snow http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sospa/players/175_free http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/players/623_Shine | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
EDIT: Everything should be fixed now. | ||
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Zera
Lithuania716 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
 ))) | ||
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razorsuKe
Canada2000 Posts
On April 12 2017 14:24 EsportsJohn wrote: $10 on Shine cheesing someone out of the tournament today. you can actually make that bet with real money lol https://sports.bodog.eu/search?query=broodwar | ||
739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
Papa free let's go !! | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On April 12 2017 14:36 razorsuKe wrote: you can actually make that bet with real money lol https://sports.bodog.eu/search?query=broodwar Nah, real money betting is overrated. I prefer using esports dollars, which can be exchanged for "exposure". | ||
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
On April 12 2017 14:24 EsportsJohn wrote: $10 on Shine cheesing someone out of the tournament today. I'll add another $10 to the pot. | ||
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Xeln4g4
Italy1209 Posts
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soldier8
Russian Federation60 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
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Zariel
Australia1285 Posts
Does anyone remember that comic strip between bisu vs shine? Shine goes like "fk... cant upgrade lair... cant pause... but 'H' key still works so i can make hydras!" | ||
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CoL_DarkstaR
Germany649 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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GTR
51461 Posts
latias pls fix | ||
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GTR
51461 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
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CoL_DarkstaR
Germany649 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10168 Posts
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HyralGambit
2439 Posts
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
On April 12 2017 19:27 tanngard wrote: Why do we NEVER see P building cannons in a defensive gamble? He could cancel them when he gets more information even (cannons take a long time to build). Am i wrong about this? Do P sometimes gamble? I feel that the gamble is always to skip cannons rather than to add them. Investing that many minerals in the early game really hurts you, though. So you could lose the game from doing that. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50123 Posts
this is shine alright | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
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CoL_DarkstaR
Germany649 Posts
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
On April 12 2017 19:28 Heartland wrote: Investing that many minerals in the early game really hurts you, though. So you could lose the game from doing that. But thats the point. If P follow that logic EVERY time and skip cannons (i'm talking about when P is playing in the blind ofc), Z can just hydra bust him because of it. And then you are dead, so no worries about your economy. Thats why a am asking why dont P do the opposite gamble sometimes? Is it just me who feels this? | ||
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On April 12 2017 19:35 Heartland wrote: Not another bust into win Yes another bust into win No zerg wants to take that map to lategame against protoss. | ||
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lamarine
586 Posts
On April 12 2017 19:24 HyralGambit wrote: "Hard map for Zerg" - Soulkey lol yes :D | ||
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On April 12 2017 19:24 HyralGambit wrote: "Hard map for Zerg" - Soulkey when you fuck up because you suicide your units i think it's fair to say... | ||
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rand0MPrecisi0n
313 Posts
On April 12 2017 19:36 xccam wrote: Yes another bust into win No zerg wants to take that map to lategame against protoss. What's the problem of camelot in this scenario? | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10168 Posts
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Routa
Finland43 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On April 12 2017 19:38 rand0MPrecisi0n wrote: What's the problem of camelot in this scenario? I've only seen the map, but bases seem spread out, it doesn't seem like the kind of base where you establish one and get a free one, no real center, broad map in general, and the ramps seem quite large which means it's hard to hold a choke. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
On April 12 2017 19:36 tanngard wrote: But thats the point. If P follow that logic EVERY time and skip cannons (i'm talking about when P is playing in the blind ofc), Z can just hydra bust him because of it. And then you are dead, so no worries about your economy. Thats why a am asking why dont P do the opposite gamble sometimes? Is it just me who feels this? I'm no expert but I'd probably say that it's better to die occasionally to hydra busts than to do a lot to your own defensive cannoning. | ||
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rand0MPrecisi0n
313 Posts
On April 12 2017 19:42 coolprogrammingstuff wrote: I've only seen the map, but bases seem spread out, it doesn't seem like the kind of base where you establish one and get a free one, no real center, broad map in general, and the ramps seem quite large which means it's hard to hold a choke. Why is it only bad for the Z and not the P though? | ||
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GTR
51461 Posts
 910 is the observer, he also works at afreeca | ||
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On April 12 2017 19:38 rand0MPrecisi0n wrote: What's the problem of camelot in this scenario? Who knows if they are right, but the pro zergs seem to think that the easy split map situation makes Protoss very hard to beat lategame. Certainly when I did watch zerg streams in the last few weeks it didn't look good for zerg. | ||
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On April 12 2017 19:44 rand0MPrecisi0n wrote: Why is it only bad for the Z and not the P though? Z usually expands to a natural to secure it with sunkens and it's usually an integral part of ZvP. Z wants more space in centre of a surround than P needs - it's a bit shit. Ramps are pretty good for lurker control, however, but may be hard at expansions where it's just not strong enough. Lurker strong builds in general seem relatively better though. | ||
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Zera
Lithuania716 Posts
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GTR
51461 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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rand0MPrecisi0n
313 Posts
On April 12 2017 19:45 coolprogrammingstuff wrote: Z usually expands to a natural to secure it with sunkens and it's usually an integral part of ZvP. Z wants more space in centre of a surround than P needs - it's a bit shit. Ramps are pretty good for lurker control, however, but may be hard at expansions where it's just not strong enough. Lurker strong builds in general seem relatively better though. Makes sense, thanks! | ||
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
im pretty shit so my analysis could be complete crap though | ||
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739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
On April 12 2017 19:43 Heartland wrote: I'm no expert but I'd probably say that it's better to die occasionally to hydra busts than to do a lot to your own defensive cannoning. What i am saying is that i think we see these kinds of games too much. That is a consequense off Ps predictability following the logic that you described. But i cannot recall seeing a P just suddenly adding 4-5 cannons without information off what Z is doing. Z is hurting their economy too by building hydras, so why not do the defensive cannon gamble when your scout is denied? | ||
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ortseam
996 Posts
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739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50123 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50123 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50123 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50123 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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rand0MPrecisi0n
313 Posts
On April 12 2017 19:49 tanngard wrote: What i am saying is that i think we see these kinds of games too much. That is a consequense off Ps predictability following the logic that you described. But i cannot recall seeing a P just suddenly adding 4-5 cannons without information off what Z is doing. Z is hurting their economy too by building hydras, so why not do the defensive cannon gamble when your scout is denied? I think the problem with that is that the z can just suicide a ling to see how many cannons you have. If they see you're gambling they just go back to droning and you're screwed. There's no way for P to deny scout early so they're stuck between a rock and a hard place | ||
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739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
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rand0MPrecisi0n
313 Posts
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rand0MPrecisi0n
313 Posts
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
On April 12 2017 20:07 rand0MPrecisi0n wrote: I think the problem with that is that the z can just suicide a ling to see how many cannons you have. If they see you're gambling they just go back to droning and you're screwed. There's no way for P to deny scout early so they're stuck between a rock and a hard place That is a good point, but i still cannot accept that P should just concede every time they lose their scout. They just cannot be that predictable. I have to study this more closely to understand exactly what Snow could have done differently. But i dont play BW so its difficult for me. Could not P cancel their cannons when they get more information with the Corsair? Snow could have done that i think. But then again he has to sacrifice something to build all those cannons AND rush to corsair? Any P expert here that could illuminate us? | ||
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
On April 12 2017 20:10 rand0MPrecisi0n wrote: Theoretically it's correct to do defensive gambles once in a while to keep your opponent guessing Yes i agree very much on this. But i feel i never see it? I have to pay more attention to this in the future | ||
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GTR
51461 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2718 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On April 12 2017 20:31 Terrorbladder wrote: lol, free hasn't given up yet? Looking at his body language and reactions earlier he has given up, he just hasn't lost the game yet and doesn't want to go out in the first round. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10168 Posts
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
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lamarine
586 Posts
On April 12 2017 19:38 FlaShFTW wrote: god free is so bad these days. he's actually really good during streams. And he's still a PvZ god. But today was really disappointing=( | ||
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On April 12 2017 20:31 GTR wrote: not surprised by snow's reaver control - he was the guy who broke legionnaire's kill record what game was that in again? I vaguely remember it. Was it vs Jaedong? | ||
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Terrorbladder
2718 Posts
On April 12 2017 20:42 coolprogrammingstuff wrote: nah against some scrub Zerg in SKT iirc. Hyuk or s2 or sOo. But probably s2.what game was that in again? I vaguely remember it. Was it vs Jaedong? | ||
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On April 12 2017 20:44 Terrorbladder wrote: nah against some scrub Zerg in SKT iirc. Hyuk or s2 or sOo. But probably s2. think it was hyuk now it comes back to me. could be completely wrong | ||
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aedeph
104 Posts
On April 12 2017 20:42 coolprogrammingstuff wrote: what game was that in again? I vaguely remember it. Was it vs Jaedong? | ||
TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On April 12 2017 20:44 Terrorbladder wrote: nah against some scrub Zerg in SKT iirc. Hyuk or s2 or sOo. But probably s2. it was soO afaik | ||
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ortseam
996 Posts
Ok guess drops is the plan | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Routa
Finland43 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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Looms
United States4624 Posts
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Piste
6177 Posts
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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quirinus
Croatia2489 Posts
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Routa
Finland43 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On April 12 2017 21:09 xccam wrote: oh my lord did he just lose all his drones At 6? Yes. He resaturated but then lost all but one to 2 storm drops GG. What a game You better watch out Bisu. lol | ||
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Routa
Finland43 Posts
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GTR
51461 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qQofHLI.jpg) | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10168 Posts
4/4 so far in my predictions  | ||
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lamarine
586 Posts
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739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
On April 12 2017 21:18 lamarine wrote: shuttle speed? never heard about it o_O Mhm, how is that? You mean that you can upgrade Shuttle's movement speed? That exists since ever >.< | ||
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
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aedeph
104 Posts
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lamarine
586 Posts
On April 12 2017 21:22 739 wrote: Mhm, how is that? You mean that you can upgrade Shuttle's movement speed? That exists since ever >.< dude that was sarcasm towards Snow :D | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6597 Posts
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4128 Posts
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
Shine hype! | ||
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st4ck0v3rfl0w
79 Posts
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
gg | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
On April 13 2017 01:26 mOnion wrote: no protoss make it through because outsider is a thing gg I think protosses should be happy anyway, because we are closer to having Bisu vs Shine | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10168 Posts
On April 13 2017 01:22 st4ck0v3rfl0w wrote: I really liked the flashftw/eonzerg cast! Hey thanks! Much love man <3 | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6597 Posts
On April 13 2017 01:22 st4ck0v3rfl0w wrote: I really liked the flashftw/eonzerg cast! thanks | ||
keit
1584 Posts
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
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prech
United States2948 Posts
TLPD updated | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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Shaman.us
United States319 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
Stoaked to see EffOrt move on! Little disappointed for SnOw, but at the same time I'm definitely happy for Shine, especially since his play in that last game was really smart. | ||
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Little-Chimp
Canada948 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On April 12 2017 20:17 tanngard wrote: That is a good point, but i still cannot accept that P should just concede every time they lose their scout. They just cannot be that predictable. I have to study this more closely to understand exactly what Snow could have done differently. But i dont play BW so its difficult for me. Could not P cancel their cannons when they get more information with the Corsair? Snow could have done that i think. But then again he has to sacrifice something to build all those cannons AND rush to corsair? Any P expert here that could illuminate us? I'm not a P expert, but I will say the main thing here is that you absolutely cannot build blind cannons that early. 4 or 5 cannons is going to hugely slow down everything and put you deeply on the back burner. Canceling the cannons when you see with the corsair might JUST work, but you'd have to have the timing flawless given that the corsair sees the hydras about halfway across the map, which means those cannons need to be within 5 or 10s of finishing by the time the corsair scouts. If you wait till corsair gets to the base the cannons will be complete. The main issue for protoss is that it's imperative to scout well. You have to keep a probe on the map, and sometimes a hidden one as needed. Admittedly, pro's are generally playing fairly well to deny the scout, but at almost any level you can tell the difference between a zerg that is trying to deny your scout and a zerg that REALLY doesn't want you to see what's going on. You can also sack a zealot or two pressuring if needed. The exception to this is a zerg that goes fast speedling, like 9 pool speed type thing. Then you won't get scouting intel, and can't keep the probe nearby to even see if hydra pop out. In this case you almost need to have a blind 3 cannons, and then stall for more; but it's not as bad in this situation because with 9pool speed zerg isn't nearly as set up economically if they aren't going for 3 hatch dra. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On April 13 2017 13:13 Little-Chimp wrote: That Shine game was reaaaally fun to watch. Both versus SnOw and versus EffOrt tbh. Versus SnOw was a masterclass by Shine in how to play outsider, and how to punish a protoss that isn't keeping templar at expansions, or cannoning really heavy. I think given his 3 base to 3 base positioning SnOw probably needed to recognize that the main way for Shine to have success was with those drops, and even after the first one happened, he played risky against it going for the win. It almost worked, but it was a definitely gamble from SnOw. My person thought is SnOw was in good enough position to win just by establishing 4 strong, well defended bases and then worrying about breaking through Shine's position. The EffOrt vs Shine game was fantastic too. Shine made the best of a bad situation, and made some really great ling decisions. Unfortunately, EffOrt was just outright better, and that's really what made the game so good. It was an absolute masterclass of ZvZ and in general strategic thinking, with EffOrt absolutely anticipating each of Shine's moves, and his general ling movements. That decision to deny the natural gas to ensure his nat gas timing matched Shine's with an already large muta flock from EffOrt was really nice; as was the winning move, recognizing he would be able to bust through the 5 spores at the risk of the counterattack. Most of all though, EffOrt's ling movements have always been insanely good, and he absolutely has that to thank for moving on. That first ling getting in and seeing the double hatches was HUGE. Without that, EffOrt was not preparing for mass lings, and almost certainly would have outright lost, but instead he was able to double sunken and extend the game. | ||
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ig0tfish
United States345 Posts
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
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