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On April 05 2017 22:22 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2017 21:05 0mg_t1red wrote:On April 05 2017 18:56 GrimscII wrote:On April 05 2017 18:42 BlueStar wrote:On April 05 2017 18:25 GrimscII wrote:On April 05 2017 17:58 trutaCz wrote:On April 05 2017 17:25 GrimscII wrote:On April 05 2017 15:11 MrMischelito wrote:On April 05 2017 07:42 GrimscII wrote:
Don't you fear about the skill level ? I mean there isn't any pro scene in foreign BW... ... but there is! Seriouly ? Can you link me a list of names, pro teams and content creator from the foreign scene ? I never heard of them, I never played BW, I want to know what the real potential of BW remastered !! Thanks !! You mad? No sorry if it appears like that  I just want to learn more ! i mean for me there's no pro scene in foreign BW ! But this guy tells me there is. I'm eager to see it !! That's all ! There is no such thing as foreign 'pro scene' in BW - generally because there aren't so many tournaments that can fund players life. However there are tons of people willing to contribute. Most of the known SC2 people are coming from BW, and will go back as well. (e.g. have you heard of day9 tasteless or artosis?) Check out the BroodWar section in TL.net - look back and see since when there are threads and information... Also there are thousands of records lost in sites such as gg.net. wgtour, pgtour and etc Thanks a lot !! I know about Day9, Artosis and Tasteless ! They are going to make videos and streams. My first concern was about the skill level compare to Korean BW tournaments ! If you have no pro scene, no structure and no big tournament like Dreamhack/IEM, BW remastered isn't going to shine like in the past. Players need support to master such a skillful game. Young players need to be sure they can make a carrier of it if they want to commit. lvl of BW is kinda low in korea nowadays, so what you could expect from foreign scene, which was pretty small and like for 7-8 years completely absent? Source this please. The level in Korea is really good right now and most foreign players A or higher are better then foreign players from 7-8 years ago. Please don't waste your time demeaning these players.
The same answer can apply to you: Source this please ! In Korea it's kind of obvious the lvl is high, they love the game and they have major events. But how can you assess the lvl of the foreign scene without any foreign pro scene or any BW foreign e-sport ?
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On April 05 2017 23:05 GrimscII wrote:
The same answer can apply to you: Source this please ! In Korea it's kind of obvious the lvl is high, they love the game and they have major events. But how can you assess the lvl of the foreign scene without any foreign pro scene or any BW foreign e-sport ?
Source? Just watch TSL replays and compare to current top foreign BW streams.
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Ive watched a bunch of TSL replays and they were lower skill than current top bw foreign players.
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Lol that's what I meant. Should've made that clear.
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On April 05 2017 23:05 GrimscII wrote:The same answer can apply to you: Source this please ! In Korea it's kind of obvious the lvl is high, they love the game and they have major events. But how can you assess the lvl of the foreign scene without any foreign pro scene or any BW foreign e-sport ?
I think that we can estimate the level of foreign players, by seeing how they rank on Fish, playing with Korean ex-pros and high level amateurs. Sziky and Trutacz have achieved B rank on Fish server, winning series vs ex-pros regularly. And this is the highest foreigners have ever got on Fish server, as far as I know. And C and even D ranks are nothing to laugh at, quite a few foreigners are on this level.
On April 05 2017 21:05 0mg_t1red wrote:
lvl of BW is kinda low in korea nowadays, so what you could expect from foreign scene, which was pretty small and like for 7-8 years completely absent?
Foreign BW scene was not absent for 7-8 years. There have been plenty of tournaments since 2010. A ton of defiler cup tourneys, team leagues, nation leagues, Iccup starleagues, Team Liquid legacy cups, all the rank based tournaments on iccup etc.
Scene has been small, yes. But it has been there, surviving because passionate people kept organizing tournaments for everyone to enjoy.
But if you mean pro scene, then yes, we have not had that for a long time.
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Ok thanks for the answer ! I've never followed Brood War, it helps a lot to understand the hype around BW HD outside of Korea !! 
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sounds great. if you have any questions, need some information regarding general guidelines and support with Tours on ICCup, feel free to contact me.
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On April 06 2017 00:35 Cele wrote:
sounds great. if you have any questions, need some information regarding general guidelines and support with Tours on ICCup, feel free to contact me.
Thanks!
I am definitely leaning a lot on Schamtoo's experience so far with this, so all help is greatly appreciated
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Bisutopia19225 Posts
On April 05 2017 23:05 GrimscII wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2017 22:22 BisuDagger wrote:On April 05 2017 21:05 0mg_t1red wrote:On April 05 2017 18:56 GrimscII wrote:On April 05 2017 18:42 BlueStar wrote:On April 05 2017 18:25 GrimscII wrote:On April 05 2017 17:58 trutaCz wrote:On April 05 2017 17:25 GrimscII wrote:On April 05 2017 15:11 MrMischelito wrote:On April 05 2017 07:42 GrimscII wrote:
Don't you fear about the skill level ? I mean there isn't any pro scene in foreign BW... ... but there is! Seriouly ? Can you link me a list of names, pro teams and content creator from the foreign scene ? I never heard of them, I never played BW, I want to know what the real potential of BW remastered !! Thanks !! You mad? No sorry if it appears like that I just want to learn more ! i mean for me there's no pro scene in foreign BW ! But this guy tells me there is. I'm eager to see it !! That's all ! There is no such thing as foreign 'pro scene' in BW - generally because there aren't so many tournaments that can fund players life. However there are tons of people willing to contribute. Most of the known SC2 people are coming from BW, and will go back as well. (e.g. have you heard of day9 tasteless or artosis?) Check out the BroodWar section in TL.net - look back and see since when there are threads and information... Also there are thousands of records lost in sites such as gg.net. wgtour, pgtour and etc Thanks a lot !! I know about Day9, Artosis and Tasteless ! They are going to make videos and streams. My first concern was about the skill level compare to Korean BW tournaments ! If you have no pro scene, no structure and no big tournament like Dreamhack/IEM, BW remastered isn't going to shine like in the past. Players need support to master such a skillful game. Young players need to be sure they can make a carrier of it if they want to commit. lvl of BW is kinda low in korea nowadays, so what you could expect from foreign scene, which was pretty small and like for 7-8 years completely absent? Source this please. The level in Korea is really good right now and most foreign players A or higher are better then foreign players from 7-8 years ago. Please don't waste your time demeaning these players. The same answer can apply to you: Source this please ! In Korea it's kind of obvious the lvl is high, they love the game and they have major events. But how can you assess the lvl of the foreign scene without any foreign pro scene or any BW foreign e-sport ?
+ Show Spoiler [source] +I cast 4 times a week including a completely foreign high level Starcraft tournament. I've casted every Korean major tournament for 4 years straight. Like others, I also have watched both pre and post 2010 replays of both foreigners and koreans. I am completely within my own right to speak about the scene.I don't need a source, I am the source.
edit: Please PM if you want to discuss this further. Let's not destroy the thread any further.
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On April 06 2017 01:10 FilthyRake wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2017 00:35 Cele wrote:
sounds great. if you have any questions, need some information regarding general guidelines and support with Tours on ICCup, feel free to contact me. Thanks! I am definitely leaning a lot on Schamtoo's experience so far with this, so all help is greatly appreciated
okay good. just shoot a pm whenever. Or feel free to add me on skype.
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United States10126 Posts
On April 06 2017 01:12 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2017 23:05 GrimscII wrote:On April 05 2017 22:22 BisuDagger wrote:On April 05 2017 21:05 0mg_t1red wrote:On April 05 2017 18:56 GrimscII wrote:On April 05 2017 18:42 BlueStar wrote:On April 05 2017 18:25 GrimscII wrote:On April 05 2017 17:58 trutaCz wrote:On April 05 2017 17:25 GrimscII wrote:On April 05 2017 15:11 MrMischelito wrote:
[quote]
... but there is! Seriouly ? Can you link me a list of names, pro teams and content creator from the foreign scene ? I never heard of them, I never played BW, I want to know what the real potential of BW remastered !! Thanks !! You mad? No sorry if it appears like that I just want to learn more ! i mean for me there's no pro scene in foreign BW ! But this guy tells me there is. I'm eager to see it !! That's all ! There is no such thing as foreign 'pro scene' in BW - generally because there aren't so many tournaments that can fund players life. However there are tons of people willing to contribute. Most of the known SC2 people are coming from BW, and will go back as well. (e.g. have you heard of day9 tasteless or artosis?) Check out the BroodWar section in TL.net - look back and see since when there are threads and information... Also there are thousands of records lost in sites such as gg.net. wgtour, pgtour and etc Thanks a lot !! I know about Day9, Artosis and Tasteless ! They are going to make videos and streams. My first concern was about the skill level compare to Korean BW tournaments ! If you have no pro scene, no structure and no big tournament like Dreamhack/IEM, BW remastered isn't going to shine like in the past. Players need support to master such a skillful game. Young players need to be sure they can make a carrier of it if they want to commit. lvl of BW is kinda low in korea nowadays, so what you could expect from foreign scene, which was pretty small and like for 7-8 years completely absent? Source this please. The level in Korea is really good right now and most foreign players A or higher are better then foreign players from 7-8 years ago. Please don't waste your time demeaning these players. The same answer can apply to you: Source this please ! In Korea it's kind of obvious the lvl is high, they love the game and they have major events. But how can you assess the lvl of the foreign scene without any foreign pro scene or any BW foreign e-sport ? + Show Spoiler [source] +I cast 4 times a week including a completely foreign high level Starcraft tournament. I've casted every Korean major tournament for 4 years straight. Like others, I also have watched both pre and post 2010 replays of both foreigners and koreans. I am completely within my own right to speak about the scene.I don't need a source, I am the source. edit: Please PM if you want to discuss this further. Let's not destroy the thread any further.
/thread.
bisudagger has murdered yet another victim
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On April 06 2017 02:01 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2017 01:10 FilthyRake wrote:On April 06 2017 00:35 Cele wrote:
sounds great. if you have any questions, need some information regarding general guidelines and support with Tours on ICCup, feel free to contact me. Thanks! I am definitely leaning a lot on Schamtoo's experience so far with this, so all help is greatly appreciated okay good. just shoot a pm whenever. Or feel free to add me on skype.
Holy, that pwneage was something awesome to read haha.
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Oh man I just read that this is going to be on iccup. That's a bummer. I lag so bad on iccup.
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probably at least until Remastered, yeah
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On April 05 2017 22:22 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2017 21:05 0mg_t1red wrote:On April 05 2017 18:56 GrimscII wrote:On April 05 2017 18:42 BlueStar wrote:On April 05 2017 18:25 GrimscII wrote:On April 05 2017 17:58 trutaCz wrote:On April 05 2017 17:25 GrimscII wrote:On April 05 2017 15:11 MrMischelito wrote:On April 05 2017 07:42 GrimscII wrote:
Don't you fear about the skill level ? I mean there isn't any pro scene in foreign BW... ... but there is! Seriouly ? Can you link me a list of names, pro teams and content creator from the foreign scene ? I never heard of them, I never played BW, I want to know what the real potential of BW remastered !! Thanks !! You mad? No sorry if it appears like that I just want to learn more ! i mean for me there's no pro scene in foreign BW ! But this guy tells me there is. I'm eager to see it !! That's all ! There is no such thing as foreign 'pro scene' in BW - generally because there aren't so many tournaments that can fund players life. However there are tons of people willing to contribute. Most of the known SC2 people are coming from BW, and will go back as well. (e.g. have you heard of day9 tasteless or artosis?) Check out the BroodWar section in TL.net - look back and see since when there are threads and information... Also there are thousands of records lost in sites such as gg.net. wgtour, pgtour and etc Thanks a lot !! I know about Day9, Artosis and Tasteless ! They are going to make videos and streams. My first concern was about the skill level compare to Korean BW tournaments ! If you have no pro scene, no structure and no big tournament like Dreamhack/IEM, BW remastered isn't going to shine like in the past. Players need support to master such a skillful game. Young players need to be sure they can make a carrier of it if they want to commit. lvl of BW is kinda low in korea nowadays, so what you could expect from foreign scene, which was pretty small and like for 7-8 years completely absent? Source this please. The level in Korea is really good right now and most foreign players A or higher are better then foreign players from 7-8 years ago. Please don't waste your time demeaning these players.
Well that's very speculative. I'm pretty sure players 7-8 years ago the best players in the foreign scene were much better. I mean, skill in general has risen, but the best BW players left for SC2.
IdrA, Nony, Mondragon, etc are sadly much better than anyone left today. Sziky was the only TSL level player left after switch, and he dominated.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=international&type=players&id=1213&part=games&vs=all&league=standard&map=any&from_year=2010&from_month=6&from_day=1&to_year=2014&to_month=2&to_day=8&action=Update
80% Winrate after SC2 release, not to mention Sziky wasn't even one of the best Foreigners before SC2 switch, had IdrA been playing in the same field as Sziky he could have been undefeated.
I'd say the skill level of the best players is quite a bit lower, but the overall skill level is probably a lot higher since there is fewer new players, but at the same time the best players are no longer playing.
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U're forgetting about 1 factor: some players from the past couldn't get into TSL because they were not mature enough as in they couldn't understand the game in the bigger picture.
To prove my point, we would have to see the age of, let's say, TOP 16 of TSL from back then to verify wheter it's true or not.
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I agree with the statement that players who dont play the game are better. I'm with you.
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Russian Federation368 Posts
On April 07 2017 01:38 trutaCz wrote:
I agree with the statement that players who dont play the game are better. I'm with you.
a truer word was never spoken
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It's true that foreign top players are way better now than top players in the past. However, sadly, it is only because of Korean scene being nowadays wide open to everyone. I mean especially FPP streams, where someone with enough time and willingness but not necessarily responsive brain can copy not only builds, but even their mechanics. Regrettably, times of imaginative foreign players, like Blackman, Mondragon, Draco and many others are far behind us.
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EPT
