The 8 coaches from STX, Hanbit, Pantech, KTF, Lecaf, Samsung, SK Telecom, and CJ Entus have made an official statement regarding their views on the recent negotiation over the broadcasting rights.
In a nutshell, they are not happy with the way OGN and MBC are trying to run this. They believe that these two companies are trying to get the sympathy and support of the general public. Both OGN and MBC have not been entirely truthful and they are simply using their available broadcasting powers to win the fans' support.
They ask OGN and MBC Game to be more professional and work toward the growth of E-Sports.
Live2Win's summary (slightly edited) This is the opinion of the 8 teams that are angry with the situation. (all teams except MBC, OGN, and eStro) It's basically saying they believe OGN/MBC should try to be more understanding and think of the progamers during their actions.
They believe showing the teams leaving the stadium on live tv, making announcements with biased opinions, and making polls on their website to get the fans on their site is unprofessional and unfair.
I'm going to write down how I feel on this matter. For someone who has just started following the StarCraft scene, I think I can be a bit less biased than some of you who saw the whole SC scene being nurtured by OGN and MBC. Unlike many of you, I'm not on the side of OGN and MBC Game. I feel like they're trying to win the general public's support and therefore forcing some kind of desperate decision making from KeSPA and IEG.
To use a poker analogy, I see it as OGN & MBC having gone all in without looking at their cards, and KeSPA & IEG left with the choice to call or fold. If they fold, it would be the equivalent of conceding to OGN & MBC's bully tactics, and if they call, it would be the equivalent of going to find other broadcasting companies. And personally, I think they should call.
What KeSPA & IEG did might not have been the best, but to watch OGN & MBC use such dirty tactics (broadcast the biased news on their channel, have polls on their main site with a prize as an incentive, show live coverage of the teams leaving)... it's just pathetic. In my opinion, they're not playing fairly.
The coaches just want the show to go on, and frankly, so do I.
Well I can definitely understand that they don't like the way the networks covered the boycott, but these were responses, not aggression. The poker analogy doesn't hold up, because all they've done is respond to the, hmm..., intense proposal by IEG. Of course both sides are defending themselves.
Any word on why eStro wasn't involved with the statement? Daniel Lee playing it safe back in the shadows? (or who is the coach at eStro/eNature/whatever these days)
Yeah, I don't like the obvious propaganda tactics either, what with the broadcasting stations abusing their media power, brainwashing the public. But I wonder if IEG's monetary demands are really so high that the broadcasting stations would lose money? Surely commercials alone cover the costs over the course of a year, not to mention the sponsorship (Shinhan Bank, Pringles, etc.)?
On March 16 2007 20:26 Myrmidon wrote: Any word on why eStro wasn't involved with the statement? Daniel Lee playing it safe back in the shadows? (or who is the coach at eStro/eNature/whatever these days)
Yeah, I don't like the obvious propaganda tactics either, what with the broadcasting stations abusing their media power, brainwashing the public. But I wonder if IEG's monetary demands are really so high that the broadcasting stations would lose money? Surely commercials alone cover the costs over the course of a year, not to mention the sponsorship (Shinhan Bank, Pringles, etc.)?
I've just reviewed some of the articles again. I think both sides are being a little unreasonable. If I look straight at the money going back and forth, it's OGN and MBC that are being unreasonable. KeSPA gives more to OGN & MBC than it receives -- I'm 99% positive about this.
KeSPA & IEG says $3/4 million over 3 years, OGN & MBC says $390,000 over 3 years. From what I can see, KeSPA already gives huge sums of money as production fees. But they're asking for OGN & MBC to provide service free of charge. That's not a very reasonable request because OGN & MBC do their share of work -- providing great commentary and a good observer. IEG bought the broadcasting rights for $1.7 million. So they're basically trying to get even by collecting $1.5 million from OGN & MBC and collecting more money from other companies.
Though I don't think OGN & MBC was being truthful when they said they will operate on a net loss. From what I see, they tend to leave out a lot of the numbers and say it's an absurd request or it's not acceptable. I believe they get more than enough funding to operate on a net income even after giving a large prize money. And one really really weird thing... they claim to have the best interests of e-sports at heart, but they're not willing to negotiate again just because "IEG said so". That sounds more like they want to make IEG look like the bad guy. IEG just said it was the final negotiation because they thought everything would be resolved by the end of that day. OGN & MBC's argument about IEG just being profit-driven doesn't work, either. If they give $1.5 million, they're still $200,000 short after 3 years, when their broadcasting rights expire. So it's not as if IEG is completely profit-driven. I think that IEG made a request that will pretty much guarantee them of operating without a net loss. Perhaps it was IEG's fault for purchasing the right for so much.
I really feel bad for pro gamers. It must seem to them like the entire world is about to collapse...
That's very true. Very dirty by MBC and OGN. My opinion of MBC and OGN would've been diminished if I saw them focus on the teams leaving or if I saw the website, even if the coaches hadn't made this statement. Really, there's no good or bad in this, no black or white. Every party fucked up in some way, and I can understand the rationale behind every seemingly harsh decision.
OGN and MBC fucked up by being selfish early on and not agreeing with KeSPA's original demands. True, they don't owe any money or anything to KeSPA, but if they were truly thinking about Progaming's future, they would agree to pay them for non-exclusive rights. The amount KeSPA was asking for was probably insignificant considering it ensured not only the security, but the growth of the business they were in. All things considered, it was not that unreasonable of a demand. After all, as I understand it, OGN and MBC had a big role in forming KeSPA and if they were mature enough to want a separate organization to oversee the sport's growth, then they should have committed to their decision and really empowered KeSPA instead of keeping it a puppet. If they had agreed to the broadcasts rights deal without all the controversy, I would have a lot of respect for them.
KeSPA fucked up by selling exclusive rights so hastily to a company that had no business anywhere in the Starcraft scene. But I can understand why they did that. I believe that it was almost a forced move because without doing so, I don't think OGN or MBC would've budged in their position on paying for broadcasting rights.
IEG fucked up really by even getting INTO this mess. They should've never bought the rights if they were unsure about how they were going to use them. And with OGN and MBC (the networks that currently own everything and have a lot of power in terms of fan support) on the fence, it was not a safe investment for them to make. But they went through with spending who knows how much money. So now they're either forced to give OGN and MBC unreasonable demands to make up for the money they paid KeSPA or they're just being scumbags. In the case of the prior, I can certainly understand why they asked for so much. They only have three years in this thing, and I can see them paying too much for the rights to strike while the iron was hot only to find out there's not much money to be made for them.
I've been bashing IEG a lot lately, but now that more and more of this has come out throughout the day, and I understand what's going on a little bit more, I really don't think the majority of the blame can be placed on any single party. I apologize for my IEG hating so much today.
I still maintain that the best thing that could happen right now is KeSPA refund IEG fully for the broadcast rights (if that's possible) on the condition that OGN and MBC will pay the original amount KeSPA asked for non-exclusive broadcasting rights. At this point, I think that so many people know about this that there will be a good amount of public pressure for them to go through with something like that. It would only be an investment for them really on their own job security.
Anyway. The situation looks pretty fucked right now. KeSPA has the money, IEG has the rights, and OGN/MBC have the fans. Somebody's going to have to make a show of faith here and put their gun down or every thing's going to hell and there'll be bad business for everyone, just less for some than the others.
Why dont OGN and MBC create their own proleague that is split evenly between both tv stations. OGN and MBC should never have negotiated, kespa stabbed them in the back, i think it is evident that ogn and mbc are in this for e-sports and kespa is in this for the money. IEG has no idea how to host anything, the kespa cup coverage was a joke, and kespa clearly doesnt care if they cripple the proleague's appeal if it gives them money. While teams besides OGN and MBC have a right to be annoyed, they must also realise that sucking up to kespa's rediculous demands is a decision no good business man would make.
I would assume that KeSPA's original demand for the 3-year rights was $1.7 million, because that's how much IEG bought it for. In that case, I don't think it's that unreasonable for IEG to ask for $1.5 million.
OGN & MBC are saying that IEG is looking for profit -- I don't think this is entirely true. If they were looking for profit, they can ask for $2 million. That's making profit. Having bought something for $1.7 million then asking $1.5 million for it is hardly unreasonable. In the negotiation, at least, I think IEG was being fairly reasonable considering their situation at that time.
However, what we must also look at is the terms of the contract. Clearly, IEG is not giving their full rights to OGN & MBC. Still, if you look at how OGN & MBC are receiving sufficient money to operate from KeSPA, I doubt that the proposition by KeSPA & IEG is as ludicrous as they make it seem to be.
In this situation, IEG should sell their full rights to OGN & MBC for $1.7 million and OGN & MBC should stop whining about how much their profit will decrease -- if indeed they really care about the growth of e-sports.
Why did KeSPA sell the rights? =/ Why did IEG buy the rights, if they are trying to just gain back the money they used to buy the rights. That's where I'm lost. I agree with you infinity, IEG should sell their rights to OGN & MBC.
On March 16 2007 21:26 Corinthos wrote: Why did KeSPA sell the rights? =/ Why did IEG buy the rights, if they are trying to just gain back the money they used to buy the rights. That's where I'm lost. I agree with you infinity, IEG should sell their rights to OGN & MBC.
Well, there was no "broadcasting rights" or "broadcasting fees" because KeSPA was simply a creation of OGN & MBC. As it grew in power (it now controls everything except the broadcast itself), it decided to put the broadcasting rights up for auction. OGN & MBC, for whatever reason, did not buy the rights, and the International E-Sports Group (IEG) ended up buying the auction. They're trying to make some profit from this, I suppose. I don't see anything wrong with that -- it was OGN & MBC's fault for not buying it when KeSPA put it out for auction.
This is the way I see it: -KeSPA had every right to sell the 3 years broadcasting rights -OGN & MBC Game, for some incomprehensible reason, did not buy it -IEG decided that they can make a little profit from this and bought the rights -After acquiring the rights, IEG proposes fairly reasonable conditions that allows for a little profit on the way -OGN & MBC complain that IEG's proposition is absurd, saying that IEG shouldn't be so profit-driven when they haven't contributed anything to e-sports -Neither side can come to a conclusion
On March 16 2007 21:26 Corinthos wrote: Why did KeSPA sell the rights? =/ Why did IEG buy the rights, if they are trying to just gain back the money they used to buy the rights. That's where I'm lost. I agree with you infinity, IEG should sell their rights to OGN & MBC.
IEG's looking to make up that gap (and then some) by getting the games broadcasted outside of Korea. This would be very good for us if it works out well.
OGN & MBC created and developed Proleague to the level it is today. They have the infrastructure, and they broadcast the games. They shouldn't have to "buy" it from anyone because they're the ones who created it and broadcasted it.
The whole "it's for the good of e-sports" argument is weak. You don't help the SC industry by screwing over the companies that created, developed, and are currently supporting it. There are other ways to promote and develop the industry. It's not like OGN/MBC unfairly treats the other teams or suppresses competition. They actively compete with one another and cooperate for Proleague.
And OGN/MBC would definite lose money because of these deals. They've operated with no outside costs since the beginning. Now they've agreed to pay for some things, but IEG demands even more. Not only is it $1.5million, it's also 40% of their income. Income is only what you take in, not counting the costs. If ANY company had to pay 40% of their revenue, they'd be way into the red. How can you make any profit with only 60% of your revenue unless you raise prices?
For those of you thinking that IEG will be losing $ if it settles for say 1.5M only, you are forgetting that the agreement they're going to have with MBC/OGN will NOT be an exclusive deal and presumably they will be making $ off of those plans to spread progaming internationally or w/e.
Acutally, i'm somewhat worried that IEG will begin to crack down on the type of actions that TL/Broodwar.de/sc2.org/playsc.com/yaoyuan are doing, by providing vods to an international fanbase for free. This in essence is taking away from IEG's potential profit margin, and action might take place that will no longer allow, for instace, ourseves at TL to have free access to vods etc.
Also, most of us (incl. me) don't know the costs that go into broadcasting and producing shows, and what is involved. I'm not sure who pays for the venues, including places like coex mall where all the normal shows are shot. Lighting men, camera crew, publicity staff, list would go on and on I think, aside from the obvious commentator crew that we've mentioned.
I'm under the impression that KeSPA takes care of the venues for Proleague, as well as publicity. Camera crews and commentators are up to MBC, OGN, and whoever else might be broadcasting games.
IMO you can't just divide the money based on who does what. OGN and MBC originally made all this eSport industry possible, all the leagues, proteams, KeSPA are from their idea and effort.
It's somehow similar to, say, you invented a product and hired people to work for you to produce, maintain and distribute it together with you. After a while, those people tell you, hey, we contribute to xx % of the production process, we shoule get xx % of the revenue, or they can even kick you out of the business even when it used to be your very own idea and your own effort from the early hard days. It can be perfectly right in terms of laws and stuff but just doesn't sound morally right. All the pro teams, pro leagues, eSport association,.. are result of OGN and MBC's hard work from the day no one could even dare to think that progaming could become a real job. And now the 2 channels have to negotiate to have right to use what they created,. As Testie said in business all are assholes, but in this case KeSPA is the less reasonable side IMO.
Well what people don't seem to know is that KeSPA gives huge sums of money to OGN & MBC under the title "production costs". I believe they got $1 million from KeSPA for 2006, and they were promised $1.5 million over 3 years from IEG in the negotiation.
Anyways, KeSPA had every single right to put the right up for sale, even if all of us don't like them for doing it. It was OGN & MBC's fault for not recognizing this and unfortunately putting the entire e-sports industry under jeopardy.
IEG didn't buy the broadcast rights for the "good of e-sports." They bought it for the same reason all businesses buy things, to make money off of their investment. They made demands earlier, which were met. Now they're demanding more. These demands will escalate in the future.
The good of e-sports depends on OGN and MBC's profitability and possibly more competition. If it makes profit, the companies will like it and probably invest more in it for expansion (to make even more profit). As a corporate executive, you won't care about the "good" of things. If something's too costly to run and maintain, it's best to kill it and invest in other things.
On March 16 2007 22:50 mrdx wrote: IMO you can't just divide the money based on who does what. OGN and MBC originally made all this eSport industry possible, all the leagues, proteams, KeSPA are from their idea and effort.
It's somehow similar to, say, you invented a product and hired people to work for you to produce, maintain and distribute it together with you. After a while, those people tell you, hey, we contribute to xx % of the production process, we shoule get xx % of the revenue, or they can even kick you out of the business even when it used to be your very own idea and your own effort from the early hard days. It can be perfectly right in terms of laws and stuff but just doesn't sound morally right. All the pro teams, pro leagues, eSport association,.. are result of OGN and MBC's hard work from the day no one could even dare to think that progaming could become a real job. And now the 2 channels have to negotiate to have right to use what they created,. As Testie said in business all are assholes, but in this case KeSPA is the less reasonable side IMO.
You say that "All the pro teams, pro leagues, eSport association,.. are result of OGN and MBC's hard work". But that's not true. KeSPA did its fair share of the work and look at all the players that spend 10 hours a day practicing. They have nothing to doSure, the broadcasting company makes it look nice, but isn't it the players and the teams that made it so interesting? They presented everything to you, but what they are really responsible for is not as much as people think.
There are players and teams all over the world. Why isn't SC as popular elsewhere? Surely it is possible for SC to be like it is in Korea in some smaller countries like Taiwan or some high-tech European countries. But it's not. Nobody was there to invest it in it and develop it to this level. There are car companies all over the world. Why are the Japanese ones better than the American ones?
I think OGN and MBC have too much power: a sport (even an e-sport) shouldn't be controlled by commercial TV channels. Starcraft tournaments need to be run by an independent body that is solely focused on promoting the game, without worrying how to broadcast it or whether to show DDR or MMORPGs instead.
On March 16 2007 23:07 vnlegend wrote: There are players and teams all over the world. Why isn't SC as popular elsewhere? Surely it is possible for SC to be like it is in Korea in some smaller countries like Taiwan or some high-tech European countries. But it's not. Nobody was there to invest it in it and develop it to this level. There are car companies all over the world. Why are the Japanese ones better than the American ones?
I never said OGN & MBC played no part in it. It takes a perfect combination of all these things for something to be so successful. And people aren't giving enough credits to the players, coaches, teams, sponsors, etc. for making this happen. I'm just reminding people that OGN & MBC didn't do all the work.
Interesting story about gaming in Korea: The reason why SC surged in popularity is because there was a huge increase in PC Bangs (internet cafes) around the country. There was this amazing timing and that's why computer games are way more popular in Korea than any other country and there are so many PC Bangs in Korea compared to any other country.
On March 16 2007 23:07 vnlegend wrote: There are players and teams all over the world. Why isn't SC as popular elsewhere? Surely it is possible for SC to be like it is in Korea in some smaller countries like Taiwan or some high-tech European countries. But it's not. Nobody was there to invest it in it and develop it to this level. There are car companies all over the world. Why are the Japanese ones better than the American ones?
I never said OGN & MBC played no part in it. It takes a perfect combination of all these things for something to be so successful. And people aren't giving enough credits to the players, coaches, teams, sponsors, etc. for making this happen. I'm just reminding people that OGN & MBC didn't do all the work.
Interesting story about gaming in Korea: The reason why SC surged in popularity is because there was a huge increase in PC Bangs (internet cafes) around the country. There was this amazing timing and that's why computer games are way more popular in Korea than any other country and there are so many PC Bangs in Korea compared to any other country.
Word. I think at around 1998 or 1999, the Korean government made broadband internet a top priority for their country because they saw the Internet as the future. Because the Internet was so readily available, the PC Bangs blossomed, and as a result games blossomed as well.
So kespa instead of selling non exclusive rights to all interested parties and taking all the profit, they sell exclusive rights to IEG, so IEG gets the extra cash, why doesn't this look right?
Starcraft players come and go. If not Starcraft then something else newer would had easily replace Starcraft later if not for OGN & MBC. It is easy to see the lasting appeal of Starcraft because most of us are hardcore Starcraft players, but the majority of the people aren't. Majority of them don't even know what high level Starcraft looks like. In a non-competitive group, people eventually get bored then move on to something else. OGN & MBC showed to the mass, the lasting appeal & depth of Starcraft then that got them hooked & it exploded from there.
If OGN & MBC didn't exist, Starcraft would similar to every other country. On life support. Imagine if OGN & MBC existed in your country and push Starcraft the way they did when Starcraft was popular, especially in the US. OGN & MBC helped keep Starcraft alive and made it what it is today. Companies like KeSPA can be easily replace by something else during its growth, but now it's too big and powerful of a role.
Money is everywhere and there are people who are trying to find the next big thing to invest millions into. It just takes an idea to change the world.
It's not illegitimate for IEG to make profit off their investment. It's illegitimate to ask for as large a percentage of OGN and MBC's VOD profits as they are.
Also, the statement by the pro teams is weak. They acted like children by walking out of the MBC preliminary, so OGN and MBC called them out on it.
both sides are being pretty nasty about it. I understand that OGN and MBC are pissed about basically being legally abused, but their reaction seems to be childish. And then the counter-reaction is even more childish. This is really like kindergarten children fighting on playground over a swing set.
EPT
(or who is the coach at eStro/eNature/whatever these days)
