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Canada11395 Posts
On November 09 2013 03:10 SynC[gm] wrote:
It's a good idea if there was a true motivational reward, such as a salary or prizes for individual leagues. Other than simply getting better, there's no other reason to really have to challenge one's self.
I proposed the idea before, mainly because greenelve was the one that suggested it, about having leagues being separated by skill with a promotion/relegation system implemented, but the problem exists within the fact that there's no reward for winning individual leagues.
Plus, there are many flaws as well, also stemming from the fact that there's no reward involved. If a player were to get promoted for winning a DRIT, per say, unless there was a reward other than the promotion, why would players aim to win at all, if it means having to play against harder people in the higher-tier leagues with again, no reward?
It's a good idea, but not something that is easily implemented.
I don't know. Is bragging rights not a thing? Have old school BW players become disaffected and has the game stagnated that they would prefer easy wins rather than bumping up into higher levels of play?
I don't know, maybe it's because I'm new to actually laddering seriously and playing in amateur tournies, but I would be glad to move from one category of skill level to another. Just like I was glad when I could switch from calling my hosted games D- to D/D- and once I could hold D consistently, shed D- to just call the hosted games D. Once I hit D+, I'll call my games D+/D and when I hold D+ consistently, I'll drop the D and just name my hosted games D+. That's fun for me and I think it would be the same hitting C- and moving up and out. To me, that is its own reward. Intrinsic vs Extrinsic rewards, I guess.
Because the other question that follows from why would players aim to win at all, if it means having to play against harder people in the higher-tier leagues with again, no reward? is why would new D- players join when there are C level players hiding in the D leagues because they also don't want to have face such tough opposition. The same despair? (I guess) that a person feels when bumping up into the C- to play against C+ opponents will be felt by D- players trying to enter the DRTL.
Except the equivalent now would be in the C leagues, you have Round of 16 TLS players hovering around because they don't want to play other top tier TLS players.
It's the awkward transition of the grade 6 or 7 students who ruled the roost in elementary and who drop to the bottom of the totem pull when they go to high school. It's not fun to be back at the bottom, but neither is it fun to have grade 8 students dominating the grade 2 students in basketball because the grade 8 students didn't want to face their peers and the grade 10's in pickup basketball.
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On November 09 2013 03:43 Cpt.beefy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2013 13:40 amazingxkcd wrote:There's been some behind the scenes discussion of allowing ket[pain] to play. Eric asked me to have a poll for this. Ket[pain] is D+ level, here is a replay pack of his ladder games http://www.mediafire.com/?ev5gyqg7vtzaqvoPoll: Allow for Ket[pain] to play?Yes (18) 56% No (14) 44% 32 total votes Your vote: Allow for Ket[pain] to play? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
From the replays That were provided heres my results: The account used is called: warmupaccount (lol). 3 of the replays are fillers. To short to get any information from. (9 secs/14 secs/34 secs). Also curiously one of them belongs to an Terran called iiN.rang, a Korean / C+ why is that part of the replay pack? Only)Cata / C- and KET won Seetaaurgent B- (a while ago) KET won (These games were back to back) LT)Drunk - Mass gamer 250 games with a 88-158 record lost Hoender - D+/C- who he beat 500KG - Finish(the country) C- (when he ladders on this account) 24 minute4s macrofest that was crazy close. 4ni - Strong C- er that KET he lost Force_nah - ?? no info Oh and in the replays is a game against LRM)Baku which is a macro fest and baku just out macros him. IMO this is way to close to call him a D rank player. Or at least his TvZ isnt D rank. Hes on par with DNH and Napoleon. DNH who is defo a C- player and is too busy/noble to play in round 2 of this DRTL. Napoleon is obviously another excellent Terran. Some may say borderline C-. In closing: Should he be allowed to play in a D ranks team league. In my opinion. Nope. Hes too good. Join a C rank team.
While I can't comment on the 3 sub-minute replays (as that was what was sent to me when I made the post), the reason I posted this was because He can be considered borderline D+/C-, for which the ques.ion is which is he? That's why I want to generate discussion on this
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On November 09 2013 06:09 greenelve wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 05:12 Cpt.beefy wrote:On November 09 2013 04:23 greenelve wrote:The main problem i see is: How to keep balance? If half of a team gets up or down, where to they take new players? And do the promoted players get spread over all the teams? Cause for example sB cant lose half of their team and have a 150% filled CRTL team. Again, Same for going down to DRTL. Or 1-2 players from each team....result would be the same... Maybe it could be handled like Gambits Cup - Leagues below: Teams picks players they think they are helpful and players who arent good enough, get transfered to a weaker team (like CRTL). Therefor i never made this idea public like i did now....but yet....it would be cool to play in a more professional area. :D ps: rewards in form of (lots of) money has the bitter feeling of motivation to cheat. which already happend in past d ranks.  Why would sB lose half there team, mate? Isn't it just Birdie and icedraco on the retiring/promoting list? Birdie said he has other players to add later, in anyway.  For example. Or TAKK wins and all 5 players won every game, TAKK would lose 5 core players which are promoted to.... well there is no CRTL TAKK...so the players would be splitted among the teams.... Ofcourse you can insert any other team....
Ok as a hypothetical. Thats fine. It has nothing to do the the sB question.
For teams to stay alive recruitment needs to be global IMO instead of the FFA method thats happening now. I believe all the teams have made new signing during the break period as it stands which is great but at the end of this season when the better players leave there respective teams, I'd like to see a melting pot sign-up for the league and the teams that need players get first pick. Which is only common sense, yea?
Minimum 8 per team plus dedication to the league. Fair play and good cheese
AA
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On November 09 2013 06:35 amazingxkcd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 03:43 Cpt.beefy wrote:On November 08 2013 13:40 amazingxkcd wrote:There's been some behind the scenes discussion of allowing ket[pain] to play. Eric asked me to have a poll for this. Ket[pain] is D+ level, here is a replay pack of his ladder games http://www.mediafire.com/?ev5gyqg7vtzaqvoPoll: Allow for Ket[pain] to play?Yes (18) 56% No (14) 44% 32 total votes Your vote: Allow for Ket[pain] to play? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
From the replays That were provided heres my results: The account used is called: warmupaccount (lol). 3 of the replays are fillers. To short to get any information from. (9 secs/14 secs/34 secs). Also curiously one of them belongs to an Terran called iiN.rang, a Korean / C+ why is that part of the replay pack? Only)Cata / C- and KET won Seetaaurgent B- (a while ago) KET won (These games were back to back) LT)Drunk - Mass gamer 250 games with a 88-158 record lost Hoender - D+/C- who he beat 500KG - Finish(the country) C- (when he ladders on this account) 24 minute4s macrofest that was crazy close. 4ni - Strong C- er that KET he lost Force_nah - ?? no info Oh and in the replays is a game against LRM)Baku which is a macro fest and baku just out macros him. IMO this is way to close to call him a D rank player. Or at least his TvZ isnt D rank. Hes on par with DNH and Napoleon. DNH who is defo a C- player and is too busy/noble to play in round 2 of this DRTL. Napoleon is obviously another excellent Terran. Some may say borderline C-. In closing: Should he be allowed to play in a D ranks team league. In my opinion. Nope. Hes too good. Join a C rank team. While I can't comment on the 3 sub-minute replays (as that was what was sent to me when I made the post), the reason I posted this was because He can be considered borderline D+/C-, for which the ques.ion is which is he? That's why I want to generate discussion on this
Lets discuss then here and in Captains chat if you like.
Can you say hes D rank material, I think if you watched the replays before posting a poll you could of saved a lot of debate and said hes just too good for this league, The question remains, who is iiN.Rang? I don't wanna start a flame war because your wrong, but your sunkhan's captain, do the leg work before throwing the judgement to the mob.
AA
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
I really hope that we can keep getting people to sign up (saying this as a new sign up myself) since I just learnt one of the coolest guys from my new team is moving up next season and I'll miss him T_T
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On November 09 2013 08:27 Qikz wrote:
I really hope that we can keep getting people to sign up (saying this as a new sign up myself) since I just learnt one of the coolest guys from my new team is moving up next season and I'll miss him T_T
heart DNH
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
On November 09 2013 08:31 Cpt.beefy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 08:27 Qikz wrote:
I really hope that we can keep getting people to sign up (saying this as a new sign up myself) since I just learnt one of the coolest guys from my new team is moving up next season and I'll miss him T_T heart DNH
Him too? Nooooo!
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Lineup SunKhan Vs DeSPA
Arb Sniper Ridge Art_of_turtle
Ket Fighting Spirit Qikz
Pebble Neo Jade Squishy
Napoleon Tau Cross AA
Xkcd Match Point Biolunar
PP needed for Qikz and his opponent
For AA
And for Biolunar
Direct PM contact or thru' the thread.
Thanks
AA
EDIT:
Apologies Squish requires a PP
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Lmaster can you post lineups for TAKK vs Courage?
P.S. Can't find my phone for skype so please post here until then...
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lol fake click ? Not to start any drama ,but i started b4 miss.click. Shes better because I never took this game srsly. And we can play at anytime Tonight
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I don't feel like quoting Falling's post and having to dissect the large post and ruin everybody's page, so I'll just leave it like this..
As evidenced by C/B-rank players cheating in D-ranks, there ARE players who just wants to play for the satisfaction of winning leagues and games and having a contribution to the team. Fortunately, you have good intentions, but there are plenty of people in this league who would probably avoid "promoting" themselves just for the sake of winning (I'm not saying this to call anyone out, I'm saying this in a general term).
In response to your TLS comment, no, the C-ranks and TLS and SBWI Teamleague are totally different situations compared to DRTL/DRIT. Why? Reward. Monetary, at that.
It'd be great. again, if the system of all Teamliquid leagues were based upon promotion/relegation, similar to European soccer, where each player is in one team and one team only, and depending on their rankings in their respective leagues, they would get promoted or relegated:
DRTL -> CRTL -> SBWI Teamleague
DRIT -> CrSL -> TLS
For instance, lets say players were unallowed to play in more than one league between DRTL, CRTL, and STL. Lets say Top 2 gets promoted and Bottom 2 gets relegated. If DRTL/CRTL were to end right now, Hwaiting Oz and Courage would be promoted to CRTL, The Smurfs and Stealth Bunnies would be promoted to STL, and USEasy and Jesus Team would be relegated to DRTL.
Again, for individual leagues. No players can play in more than one league. A player is only eligible to play in CrSL if they were in the Ro8 in the DRIT, and a player is only eligible to play in TLS if they made the Ro8 in CrSL. A player is forced to play in CrSL if they were unable to make it out of the initial group stages in TLS, and same with CrSL and DRIT.
It would be great if everybody cooperated, but for their to be proper cooperation and no type of dishonesty in terms of smurfing, there would have to be a motivation besides the want to win. Without a salary or any type of reward for winning other than the satisfaction, it'd be impossible to pull off something that requires effective and thorough organization.
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Cool, I am DRTL, CRTL, and STL all at once.
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Thanks for posting lineups. My I internet has been really messed up all of today and I haven't been able to access Skype well. Ill post complete lineups as soon as I get home with a new wireless adapter.
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Fake.Click, what is your skype so I can postpone like a child
Oh, apparently he gets angry when I call him that. It has cost me any chance to PP even though I'm doing wedding stuff. Might get an autoloss this time around
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Just double confirming: game time tomorrow is at 1pm EST, 6pm GMT? That is 12 hours, 25 minutes from now?
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Yo, is there anything to cast? I'm bored and want to observe some beautiful DRTL games.
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There will be tomorrow. Sadly nothing atm
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Just beat smokey 2-1, Huo 1-0, Basedgoon 1-0, and a couple KRs
I'm on fire
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Canada11395 Posts
As evidenced by C/B-rank players cheating in D-ranks, there ARE players who just wants to play for the satisfaction of winning leagues and games and having a contribution to the team.
Yeah, I guess you are right. I probably shouldn't project my own beliefs and motivations on others as past behaviour (particularly the past cheating) is evidence enough that the ideal is not at all the reality for every single player. Having said that, it seems there are quite a few that see the benefits of moving on as evidenced by Oz and the other murmurs of promotion at the end of this round. But you are right, it is difficult to implement any sort of enforcement in a systematic way.
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EPT
