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Canada4481 Posts
On July 24 2013 04:58 tonight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 03:40 Nagisama wrote: Replays are uploaded and in the 2nd post. Me and RedAxis will be casting KaiGreene/TheMarine at Wednesday, Jul 24 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) and maybe Sentenal/dazed_spy if there's time. Two terrans casting a PvP. How cute. For some reason the Protosses took the Terran games =\
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On July 24 2013 05:59 Nagisama wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 04:58 tonight wrote:On July 24 2013 03:40 Nagisama wrote: Replays are uploaded and in the 2nd post. Me and RedAxis will be casting KaiGreene/TheMarine at Wednesday, Jul 24 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) and maybe Sentenal/dazed_spy if there's time. Two terrans casting a PvP. How cute. For some reason the Protosses took the Terran games =\
It was either take terran games or take courage games. Figured you wanted to cast your teamates
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On July 24 2013 05:59 Nagisama wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 04:58 tonight wrote:On July 24 2013 03:40 Nagisama wrote: Replays are uploaded and in the 2nd post. Me and RedAxis will be casting KaiGreene/TheMarine at Wednesday, Jul 24 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) and maybe Sentenal/dazed_spy if there's time. Two terrans casting a PvP. How cute. For some reason the Protosses took the Terran games =\
I'll come help
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Canada4481 Posts
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You could switch to gamecreds, which does embed properly (and you can get some small monies for it maybe ;D). + Show Spoiler + Nice marine control from RedAxis in game 2.
+ Show Spoiler +As you said, I didn't respond to the 4gate properly. IIRC I saw his probe run towards his third and didn't think he could afford that many zealots. I've never faced 4gates before, rather annoyed I lost like that 
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On July 24 2013 12:34 Birdie wrote:You could switch to gamecreds, which does embed properly (and you can get some small monies for it maybe ;D). + Show Spoiler + Nice marine control from RedAxis in game 2.
+ Show Spoiler +As you said, I didn't respond to the 4gate properly. IIRC I saw his probe run towards his third and didn't think he could afford that many zealots. I've never faced 4gates before, rather annoyed I lost like that 
+ Show Spoiler + After I saw that I blocked my nexus, I just instantly 2-gated, but I actually felt like leaving because I couldn't imagine how I could possibly win. So I just decided to go as all-in as possible and add 2 more gates and hope that zealots are good :p
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On July 24 2013 13:23 ggrrg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 12:34 Birdie wrote:You could switch to gamecreds, which does embed properly (and you can get some small monies for it maybe ;D). + Show Spoiler + Nice marine control from RedAxis in game 2.
+ Show Spoiler +As you said, I didn't respond to the 4gate properly. IIRC I saw his probe run towards his third and didn't think he could afford that many zealots. I've never faced 4gates before, rather annoyed I lost like that  + Show Spoiler + After I saw that I blocked my nexus, I just instantly 2-gated, but I actually felt like leaving because I couldn't imagine how I could possibly win. So I just decided to go as all-in as possible and add 2 more gates and hope that zealots are good :p
+ Show Spoiler +Zealots are pretty good yo  Now that I know how to defend 4gate I feel like I coulda held it easily, but at the time it was new for me.  As for game 2, with all due respect to RulZBoooM I tilted pretty hard 
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On July 24 2013 13:26 Birdie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 13:23 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 12:34 Birdie wrote:You could switch to gamecreds, which does embed properly (and you can get some small monies for it maybe ;D). + Show Spoiler + Nice marine control from RedAxis in game 2.
+ Show Spoiler +As you said, I didn't respond to the 4gate properly. IIRC I saw his probe run towards his third and didn't think he could afford that many zealots. I've never faced 4gates before, rather annoyed I lost like that  + Show Spoiler + After I saw that I blocked my nexus, I just instantly 2-gated, but I actually felt like leaving because I couldn't imagine how I could possibly win. So I just decided to go as all-in as possible and add 2 more gates and hope that zealots are good :p
+ Show Spoiler +Zealots are pretty good yo  Now that I know how to defend 4gate I feel like I coulda held it easily, but at the time it was new for me.  As for game 2, with all due respect to RulZBoooM I tilted pretty hard 
+ Show Spoiler + Understandable to tilt after such an unfortunate 1st game. I felt that something was off in game two since I normally do pretty poorly in late game PvZ. :p Also, the only "real" build I practiced for the series was +1 speedlot timing... and then I forgot the +1 -.-
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On July 24 2013 13:51 ggrrg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 13:26 Birdie wrote:On July 24 2013 13:23 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 12:34 Birdie wrote:You could switch to gamecreds, which does embed properly (and you can get some small monies for it maybe ;D). + Show Spoiler + Nice marine control from RedAxis in game 2.
+ Show Spoiler +As you said, I didn't respond to the 4gate properly. IIRC I saw his probe run towards his third and didn't think he could afford that many zealots. I've never faced 4gates before, rather annoyed I lost like that  + Show Spoiler + After I saw that I blocked my nexus, I just instantly 2-gated, but I actually felt like leaving because I couldn't imagine how I could possibly win. So I just decided to go as all-in as possible and add 2 more gates and hope that zealots are good :p
+ Show Spoiler +Zealots are pretty good yo  Now that I know how to defend 4gate I feel like I coulda held it easily, but at the time it was new for me.  As for game 2, with all due respect to RulZBoooM I tilted pretty hard  + Show Spoiler + Understandable to tilt after such an unfortunate 1st game. I felt that something was off in game two since I normally do pretty poorly in late game PvZ. :p Also, the only "real" build I practiced for the series was +1 speedlot timing... and then I forgot the +1 -.-
+ Show Spoiler +Incidentally I found at least 6 replays of yourself, hence the somewhat blind 2gate counter in game 1. (you 2gated a lot in the games I watched). Game 2 I didn't do my plan, which was to ling all in (I knew you couldn't wall properly on FS so I suspected the same would be true in bloody ridge). If I had done that I think I would have won. Ah well, we live and learn 
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Art of Turtle will be casting myself v prophecy on his stream following the end of my cast.
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On July 24 2013 13:57 Birdie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 13:51 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 13:26 Birdie wrote:On July 24 2013 13:23 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 12:34 Birdie wrote:You could switch to gamecreds, which does embed properly (and you can get some small monies for it maybe ;D). + Show Spoiler + Nice marine control from RedAxis in game 2.
+ Show Spoiler +As you said, I didn't respond to the 4gate properly. IIRC I saw his probe run towards his third and didn't think he could afford that many zealots. I've never faced 4gates before, rather annoyed I lost like that  + Show Spoiler + After I saw that I blocked my nexus, I just instantly 2-gated, but I actually felt like leaving because I couldn't imagine how I could possibly win. So I just decided to go as all-in as possible and add 2 more gates and hope that zealots are good :p
+ Show Spoiler +Zealots are pretty good yo  Now that I know how to defend 4gate I feel like I coulda held it easily, but at the time it was new for me.  As for game 2, with all due respect to RulZBoooM I tilted pretty hard  + Show Spoiler + Understandable to tilt after such an unfortunate 1st game. I felt that something was off in game two since I normally do pretty poorly in late game PvZ. :p Also, the only "real" build I practiced for the series was +1 speedlot timing... and then I forgot the +1 -.-
+ Show Spoiler +Incidentally I found at least 6 replays of yourself, hence the somewhat blind 2gate counter in game 1. (you 2gated a lot in the games I watched). Game 2 I didn't do my plan, which was to ling all in (I knew you couldn't wall properly on FS so I suspected the same would be true in bloody ridge). If I had done that I think I would have won. Ah well, we live and learn 
+ Show Spoiler + Where the hell did you get my replays!? xD I 2-gated quite a bit on ladder, because I saw how themarine beat aeghrur with a 2-gate and it looked so easy and strong. However, after doing it about 10 times on ladder, I saw that it can be quite weak actually. I also figured that a short look on my iccup profile will let you know how many short PvZs I had recently and you'll probably prepare against a 2-gate even without having replays of mine. That's why I decided to drop the 2 gate and just do +1 speedlot twice in a row... which didn't work out because I manner pyloned myself in game one and failed the build in game 2... By the way, another reason why I decided to try +1 speedlot is because in your game against arca I got the feeling that you're the kind of zerg to cut army, drone up heavily and try to overwhelm the toss in the late game.
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So much manner between you two.
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On July 24 2013 14:06 ggrrg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 13:57 Birdie wrote:On July 24 2013 13:51 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 13:26 Birdie wrote:On July 24 2013 13:23 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 12:34 Birdie wrote:You could switch to gamecreds, which does embed properly (and you can get some small monies for it maybe ;D). + Show Spoiler + Nice marine control from RedAxis in game 2.
+ Show Spoiler +As you said, I didn't respond to the 4gate properly. IIRC I saw his probe run towards his third and didn't think he could afford that many zealots. I've never faced 4gates before, rather annoyed I lost like that  + Show Spoiler + After I saw that I blocked my nexus, I just instantly 2-gated, but I actually felt like leaving because I couldn't imagine how I could possibly win. So I just decided to go as all-in as possible and add 2 more gates and hope that zealots are good :p
+ Show Spoiler +Zealots are pretty good yo  Now that I know how to defend 4gate I feel like I coulda held it easily, but at the time it was new for me.  As for game 2, with all due respect to RulZBoooM I tilted pretty hard  + Show Spoiler + Understandable to tilt after such an unfortunate 1st game. I felt that something was off in game two since I normally do pretty poorly in late game PvZ. :p Also, the only "real" build I practiced for the series was +1 speedlot timing... and then I forgot the +1 -.-
+ Show Spoiler +Incidentally I found at least 6 replays of yourself, hence the somewhat blind 2gate counter in game 1. (you 2gated a lot in the games I watched). Game 2 I didn't do my plan, which was to ling all in (I knew you couldn't wall properly on FS so I suspected the same would be true in bloody ridge). If I had done that I think I would have won. Ah well, we live and learn  + Show Spoiler + Where the hell did you get my replays!? xD I 2-gated quite a bit on ladder, because I saw how themarine beat aeghrur with a 2-gate and it looked so easy and strong. However, after doing it about 10 times on ladder, I saw that it can be quite weak actually. I also figured that a short look on my iccup profile will let you know how many short PvZs I had recently and you'll probably prepare against a 2-gate even without having replays of mine. That's why I decided to drop the 2 gate and just do +1 speedlot twice in a row... which didn't work out because I manner pyloned myself in game one and failed the build in game 2... By the way, another reason why I decided to try +1 speedlot is because in your game against arca I got the feeling that you're the kind of zerg to cut army, drone up heavily and try to overwhelm the toss in the late game.
+ Show Spoiler +I actually just PMed people in your matchlist for replays haha. I'm usually fine vs speedlot, but I played differently vs arca because he doesn't usually do speedlot attacks. To be honest I wasn't too sure what to expect for your mid/late game because most of the reps I had of you didn't have any mid or late game, just once you made heaps of goons. Hence the mass sunkens in game 2.
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On July 24 2013 14:11 Birdie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 14:06 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 13:57 Birdie wrote:On July 24 2013 13:51 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 13:26 Birdie wrote:On July 24 2013 13:23 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 12:34 Birdie wrote:You could switch to gamecreds, which does embed properly (and you can get some small monies for it maybe ;D). + Show Spoiler + Nice marine control from RedAxis in game 2.
+ Show Spoiler +As you said, I didn't respond to the 4gate properly. IIRC I saw his probe run towards his third and didn't think he could afford that many zealots. I've never faced 4gates before, rather annoyed I lost like that  + Show Spoiler + After I saw that I blocked my nexus, I just instantly 2-gated, but I actually felt like leaving because I couldn't imagine how I could possibly win. So I just decided to go as all-in as possible and add 2 more gates and hope that zealots are good :p
+ Show Spoiler +Zealots are pretty good yo  Now that I know how to defend 4gate I feel like I coulda held it easily, but at the time it was new for me.  As for game 2, with all due respect to RulZBoooM I tilted pretty hard  + Show Spoiler + Understandable to tilt after such an unfortunate 1st game. I felt that something was off in game two since I normally do pretty poorly in late game PvZ. :p Also, the only "real" build I practiced for the series was +1 speedlot timing... and then I forgot the +1 -.-
+ Show Spoiler +Incidentally I found at least 6 replays of yourself, hence the somewhat blind 2gate counter in game 1. (you 2gated a lot in the games I watched). Game 2 I didn't do my plan, which was to ling all in (I knew you couldn't wall properly on FS so I suspected the same would be true in bloody ridge). If I had done that I think I would have won. Ah well, we live and learn  + Show Spoiler + Where the hell did you get my replays!? xD I 2-gated quite a bit on ladder, because I saw how themarine beat aeghrur with a 2-gate and it looked so easy and strong. However, after doing it about 10 times on ladder, I saw that it can be quite weak actually. I also figured that a short look on my iccup profile will let you know how many short PvZs I had recently and you'll probably prepare against a 2-gate even without having replays of mine. That's why I decided to drop the 2 gate and just do +1 speedlot twice in a row... which didn't work out because I manner pyloned myself in game one and failed the build in game 2... By the way, another reason why I decided to try +1 speedlot is because in your game against arca I got the feeling that you're the kind of zerg to cut army, drone up heavily and try to overwhelm the toss in the late game.
+ Show Spoiler +I actually just PMed people in your matchlist for replays haha. I'm usually fine vs speedlot, but I played differently vs arca because he doesn't usually do speedlot attacks. To be honest I wasn't too sure what to expect for your mid/late game because most of the reps I had of you didn't have any mid or late game, just once you made heaps of goons. Hence the mass sunkens in game 2.
+ Show Spoiler + What a commitment PM'ing random people ^^ I tried the mass goon all-in 3-4 times, because themarine was telling me how insanely strong it is after he saw draw beating technics with it. Well, either the all-in is terrible or I just can't follow a simple build order, because I got utterly crushed every single time I tried it...
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On July 24 2013 14:19 ggrrg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 14:11 Birdie wrote:On July 24 2013 14:06 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 13:57 Birdie wrote:On July 24 2013 13:51 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 13:26 Birdie wrote:On July 24 2013 13:23 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 12:34 Birdie wrote:You could switch to gamecreds, which does embed properly (and you can get some small monies for it maybe ;D). + Show Spoiler + Nice marine control from RedAxis in game 2.
+ Show Spoiler +As you said, I didn't respond to the 4gate properly. IIRC I saw his probe run towards his third and didn't think he could afford that many zealots. I've never faced 4gates before, rather annoyed I lost like that  + Show Spoiler + After I saw that I blocked my nexus, I just instantly 2-gated, but I actually felt like leaving because I couldn't imagine how I could possibly win. So I just decided to go as all-in as possible and add 2 more gates and hope that zealots are good :p
+ Show Spoiler +Zealots are pretty good yo  Now that I know how to defend 4gate I feel like I coulda held it easily, but at the time it was new for me.  As for game 2, with all due respect to RulZBoooM I tilted pretty hard  + Show Spoiler + Understandable to tilt after such an unfortunate 1st game. I felt that something was off in game two since I normally do pretty poorly in late game PvZ. :p Also, the only "real" build I practiced for the series was +1 speedlot timing... and then I forgot the +1 -.-
+ Show Spoiler +Incidentally I found at least 6 replays of yourself, hence the somewhat blind 2gate counter in game 1. (you 2gated a lot in the games I watched). Game 2 I didn't do my plan, which was to ling all in (I knew you couldn't wall properly on FS so I suspected the same would be true in bloody ridge). If I had done that I think I would have won. Ah well, we live and learn  + Show Spoiler + Where the hell did you get my replays!? xD I 2-gated quite a bit on ladder, because I saw how themarine beat aeghrur with a 2-gate and it looked so easy and strong. However, after doing it about 10 times on ladder, I saw that it can be quite weak actually. I also figured that a short look on my iccup profile will let you know how many short PvZs I had recently and you'll probably prepare against a 2-gate even without having replays of mine. That's why I decided to drop the 2 gate and just do +1 speedlot twice in a row... which didn't work out because I manner pyloned myself in game one and failed the build in game 2... By the way, another reason why I decided to try +1 speedlot is because in your game against arca I got the feeling that you're the kind of zerg to cut army, drone up heavily and try to overwhelm the toss in the late game.
+ Show Spoiler +I actually just PMed people in your matchlist for replays haha. I'm usually fine vs speedlot, but I played differently vs arca because he doesn't usually do speedlot attacks. To be honest I wasn't too sure what to expect for your mid/late game because most of the reps I had of you didn't have any mid or late game, just once you made heaps of goons. Hence the mass sunkens in game 2. + Show Spoiler + What a commitment PM'ing random people ^^ I tried the mass goon all-in 3-4 times, because themarine was telling me how insanely strong it is after he saw draw beating technics with it. Well, either the all-in is terrible or I just can't follow a simple build order, because I got utterly crushed every single time I tried it...
+ Show Spoiler +Happily TheMarine tried it vs me also. First game he beat me soundly, second game I destroyed it. Just make sunkens and it loses basically. One of the big things that holds me back is lack of that kind of knowledge though, like that 4gate is something new to me, standard stuff is more easy to counter but anything that's not standard is where my lack of game experience kills me.
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On July 24 2013 14:22 Birdie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 14:19 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 14:11 Birdie wrote:On July 24 2013 14:06 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 13:57 Birdie wrote:On July 24 2013 13:51 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 13:26 Birdie wrote:On July 24 2013 13:23 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 12:34 Birdie wrote:You could switch to gamecreds, which does embed properly (and you can get some small monies for it maybe ;D). + Show Spoiler + Nice marine control from RedAxis in game 2.
+ Show Spoiler +As you said, I didn't respond to the 4gate properly. IIRC I saw his probe run towards his third and didn't think he could afford that many zealots. I've never faced 4gates before, rather annoyed I lost like that  + Show Spoiler + After I saw that I blocked my nexus, I just instantly 2-gated, but I actually felt like leaving because I couldn't imagine how I could possibly win. So I just decided to go as all-in as possible and add 2 more gates and hope that zealots are good :p
+ Show Spoiler +Zealots are pretty good yo  Now that I know how to defend 4gate I feel like I coulda held it easily, but at the time it was new for me.  As for game 2, with all due respect to RulZBoooM I tilted pretty hard  + Show Spoiler + Understandable to tilt after such an unfortunate 1st game. I felt that something was off in game two since I normally do pretty poorly in late game PvZ. :p Also, the only "real" build I practiced for the series was +1 speedlot timing... and then I forgot the +1 -.-
+ Show Spoiler +Incidentally I found at least 6 replays of yourself, hence the somewhat blind 2gate counter in game 1. (you 2gated a lot in the games I watched). Game 2 I didn't do my plan, which was to ling all in (I knew you couldn't wall properly on FS so I suspected the same would be true in bloody ridge). If I had done that I think I would have won. Ah well, we live and learn  + Show Spoiler + Where the hell did you get my replays!? xD I 2-gated quite a bit on ladder, because I saw how themarine beat aeghrur with a 2-gate and it looked so easy and strong. However, after doing it about 10 times on ladder, I saw that it can be quite weak actually. I also figured that a short look on my iccup profile will let you know how many short PvZs I had recently and you'll probably prepare against a 2-gate even without having replays of mine. That's why I decided to drop the 2 gate and just do +1 speedlot twice in a row... which didn't work out because I manner pyloned myself in game one and failed the build in game 2... By the way, another reason why I decided to try +1 speedlot is because in your game against arca I got the feeling that you're the kind of zerg to cut army, drone up heavily and try to overwhelm the toss in the late game.
+ Show Spoiler +I actually just PMed people in your matchlist for replays haha. I'm usually fine vs speedlot, but I played differently vs arca because he doesn't usually do speedlot attacks. To be honest I wasn't too sure what to expect for your mid/late game because most of the reps I had of you didn't have any mid or late game, just once you made heaps of goons. Hence the mass sunkens in game 2. + Show Spoiler + What a commitment PM'ing random people ^^ I tried the mass goon all-in 3-4 times, because themarine was telling me how insanely strong it is after he saw draw beating technics with it. Well, either the all-in is terrible or I just can't follow a simple build order, because I got utterly crushed every single time I tried it...
+ Show Spoiler +Happily TheMarine tried it vs me also. First game he beat me soundly, second game I destroyed it. Just make sunkens and it loses basically. One of the big things that holds me back is lack of that kind of knowledge though, like that 4gate is something new to me, standard stuff is more easy to counter but anything that's not standard is where my lack of game experience kills me.
+ Show Spoiler + Good thing I dropped using goons then :D And yeah, I also feel really uncomfortable against non-standard stuff. By the way, the 4 gate was neither a planned build, nor anything I have ever done before. It was just a desperate attempt to salvage a total disaster...
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On July 24 2013 14:19 ggrrg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 14:11 Birdie wrote:On July 24 2013 14:06 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 13:57 Birdie wrote:On July 24 2013 13:51 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 13:26 Birdie wrote:On July 24 2013 13:23 ggrrg wrote:On July 24 2013 12:34 Birdie wrote:You could switch to gamecreds, which does embed properly (and you can get some small monies for it maybe ;D). + Show Spoiler + Nice marine control from RedAxis in game 2.
+ Show Spoiler +As you said, I didn't respond to the 4gate properly. IIRC I saw his probe run towards his third and didn't think he could afford that many zealots. I've never faced 4gates before, rather annoyed I lost like that  + Show Spoiler + After I saw that I blocked my nexus, I just instantly 2-gated, but I actually felt like leaving because I couldn't imagine how I could possibly win. So I just decided to go as all-in as possible and add 2 more gates and hope that zealots are good :p
+ Show Spoiler +Zealots are pretty good yo  Now that I know how to defend 4gate I feel like I coulda held it easily, but at the time it was new for me.  As for game 2, with all due respect to RulZBoooM I tilted pretty hard  + Show Spoiler + Understandable to tilt after such an unfortunate 1st game. I felt that something was off in game two since I normally do pretty poorly in late game PvZ. :p Also, the only "real" build I practiced for the series was +1 speedlot timing... and then I forgot the +1 -.-
+ Show Spoiler +Incidentally I found at least 6 replays of yourself, hence the somewhat blind 2gate counter in game 1. (you 2gated a lot in the games I watched). Game 2 I didn't do my plan, which was to ling all in (I knew you couldn't wall properly on FS so I suspected the same would be true in bloody ridge). If I had done that I think I would have won. Ah well, we live and learn  + Show Spoiler + Where the hell did you get my replays!? xD I 2-gated quite a bit on ladder, because I saw how themarine beat aeghrur with a 2-gate and it looked so easy and strong. However, after doing it about 10 times on ladder, I saw that it can be quite weak actually. I also figured that a short look on my iccup profile will let you know how many short PvZs I had recently and you'll probably prepare against a 2-gate even without having replays of mine. That's why I decided to drop the 2 gate and just do +1 speedlot twice in a row... which didn't work out because I manner pyloned myself in game one and failed the build in game 2... By the way, another reason why I decided to try +1 speedlot is because in your game against arca I got the feeling that you're the kind of zerg to cut army, drone up heavily and try to overwhelm the toss in the late game.
+ Show Spoiler +I actually just PMed people in your matchlist for replays haha. I'm usually fine vs speedlot, but I played differently vs arca because he doesn't usually do speedlot attacks. To be honest I wasn't too sure what to expect for your mid/late game because most of the reps I had of you didn't have any mid or late game, just once you made heaps of goons. Hence the mass sunkens in game 2. + Show Spoiler + What a commitment PM'ing random people ^^ I tried the mass goon all-in 3-4 times, because themarine was telling me how insanely strong it is after he saw draw beating technics with it. Well, either the all-in is terrible or I just can't follow a simple build order, because I got utterly crushed every single time I tried it...
Make sure the timings are right, if you are off it can fail very easily. An extra 20-30 seconds can mean an extra half control group or more of hydras/lings out.
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