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Alright, here is my initial other thought.
Lots of talk about yellow rankers. There is currently no CRTL.
What about allowing each team to add 1-2 yellow rank players, that would play in one set against each other. It gives some people that want to a chance to play, and also can work nicely with coaching, and takes the burden off of full Bo7, while still giving plenty of people a chance to play.
If full teams of D players show up then they could just play Bo7 for maximum playing experience, but with team sizes Bo7 I think will be unrealistic.
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I don't see why any change needs to be made. This is just Ninazerg and puppykiller throwing a fit because they aren't getting their way. And one of which isn't even trying to get into the league.
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Well why are you throwing a fit Setenal? You seem really invested in this.
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On March 02 2013 11:56 puppykiller wrote:
Well why are you throwing a fit Setenal? You seem really invested in this.
I'm not the one creating polls trying to overthrow admin decisions, or overturn polls that were 42-6 against you, or saying anyone who thinks you shouldn't be allowed in are noob-bashers who are afraid of you.
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On March 02 2013 11:53 Sentenal wrote:
I don't see why any change needs to be made. This is just Ninazerg and puppykiller throwing a fit because they aren't getting their way. And one of which isn't even trying to get into the league.
Yellow ranks don't have a league of their own to play in. It will be two months or more best case scenario before CRTL is happening. It also opens up good avenues for coaching and integration between the different skill levels, which DRTL certainly lacks.
It isn't in response to the debates in the thread. It strikes me as a potentially good idea.
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I'm actually the one who made the suggestion of this to L_Master and it wasn't because of the pk thing although the discussion around it sparked the thought. Since every season there is a fight about whether or not certain players are too good I thought this may be a good way to graduate players or integrate some C level coaching.
It's just a thought.
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So what would the format be? A Bo7 with 6 of the matches being D rank, and 1 being C rank match?
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On March 02 2013 12:16 Sentenal wrote:
So what would the format be? A Bo7 with 6 of the matches being D rank, and 1 being C rank match?
Realistically, if theres a C ranks league already in the works im sure they can wait
i dont see the argument here
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On March 02 2013 12:16 Sentenal wrote:
So what would the format be? A Bo7 with 6 of the matches being D rank, and 1 being C rank match?
If C-ranks DO play, it would be 1 C-rank game, 5 D-rank games, and if need by, it would go to a D-rank ace match...
But there's going to be an ace match regardless C-ranks play or not.
Edit: Apparently, it's not 100% about ace matches, so scratch that...
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On March 02 2013 12:23 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 12:16 Sentenal wrote:
So what would the format be? A Bo7 with 6 of the matches being D rank, and 1 being C rank match? Realistically, if theres a C ranks league already in the works im sure they can wait i dont see the argument here
Integration. This isn't nearly as extreme for as with the yellow guys, but there is still a serious lack of that.
On March 02 2013 12:16 Sentenal wrote:
So what would the format be? A Bo7 with 6 of the matches being D rank, and 1 being C rank match?
Basically.
5 D matches, 1 C match; if tied then ace match. Or if we don't want ace then 6 D, 1 C
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On March 02 2013 12:29 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 12:23 arb wrote:On March 02 2013 12:16 Sentenal wrote:
So what would the format be? A Bo7 with 6 of the matches being D rank, and 1 being C rank match? Realistically, if theres a C ranks league already in the works im sure they can wait i dont see the argument here Integration. This isn't nearly as extreme for as with the yellow guys, but there is still a serious lack of that. Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 12:16 Sentenal wrote:
So what would the format be? A Bo7 with 6 of the matches being D rank, and 1 being C rank match? Basically. 5 D matches, 1 C match; if tied then ace match. Or if we don't want ace then 6 D, 1 C
So are we going to try and recruit more C rank people for each team, or make the upper level players in the league we already have get bumped up?
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On March 02 2013 12:31 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 12:29 L_Master wrote:On March 02 2013 12:23 arb wrote:On March 02 2013 12:16 Sentenal wrote:
So what would the format be? A Bo7 with 6 of the matches being D rank, and 1 being C rank match? Realistically, if theres a C ranks league already in the works im sure they can wait i dont see the argument here Integration. This isn't nearly as extreme for as with the yellow guys, but there is still a serious lack of that. On March 02 2013 12:16 Sentenal wrote:
So what would the format be? A Bo7 with 6 of the matches being D rank, and 1 being C rank match? Basically. 5 D matches, 1 C match; if tied then ace match. Or if we don't want ace then 6 D, 1 C So are we going to try and recruit more C rank people for each team, or make the upper level players in the league we already have get bumped up?
Recruitment. Since just 1-2 are needed I don't think it would be a huge problem (see GOT for active C players) especially if I made a post mentioning it.
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I would be fine with having a C ranks match. I'd prefer no ace matches, because of the regularity of postponed matches in the previous league (postponed matches means that the ace match would also have to be postponed pending results of the original PPed matches).
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On March 02 2013 10:56 Spazer wrote:For reference: Poll: Restrictions?May hit rank above D+, but must be some seasons ago. (20) 51% Maximum 2999 Points (12) 31% Never hit anything above D+. (6) 15% Do not allow D+ at all. (1) 3% Maximum 2500 Points (0) 0% 39 total votes Your vote: Restrictions? (Vote): Never hit anything above D+.
(Vote): May hit rank above D+, but must be some seasons ago.
(Vote): Maximum 2999 Points
(Vote): Maximum 2500 Points
(Vote): Do not allow D+ at all.
You should make a new poll, because neither of those alternatives are as liberal as the current system. The current system allows max rank C-, as long as you can't sustain C-. It's a lot harder to sustain C-, than to hit C-. There's plenty of players here who have hit C-, or who could, if they just tried. Probably around 20 players, maybe more.
I don't understand all this fuss about Nagisama. He had to work really hard to hit C-, and I don't mean in terms of his improvements, I mean that he needed like 80 games to hit C-, and that his winrates are nowhere near good enough to climb any higher. In my view, and in the view of this league (atleast historically) he's a very good example of a high D+ player.
As far as drafting goes. In the current situation I think they should all go to Despa and Phoenix, even if it means they get 1 player more than us in Ace. As history tells us, new teams are much more unstable.
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On March 02 2013 11:40 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 11:39 L_Master wrote:
Okay, so as I understand it now teams are:
DeSPA - 1
Airforce Ace of Spades - 9
Phoenix - 5
Courage - 10
Stealth Bunnies - 10
TAKK - 13
NW Power - 14
SunKan - 9
This gives us 8 teams, which I am sure most agree is a nice number. I'm happy with number of players on Courage, SB, TAKK, and NW. SunKan and Ace could use an extra player or two, but they are low priority.
AA needs a team.
Phoenix needs a few.
We have 12 free agents, 8 go to AA to bring him to 9, and 4 to Phoenix also giving 9. This doesn't leave any drafting for SunKan, but I think it's more important to get other teams up to a decent roster.
Hopefully we can get another 3-4 in the next week or two.
Thoughts? Sounds good, more or less. 9 is a decent number of players. Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 11:40 ninazerg wrote:On March 02 2013 11:28 Sentenal wrote:On March 02 2013 11:03 ninazerg wrote:
What now? Really, stick to your own stuff. If you qq about so-called C- people talking why are you talking? As far as I know you're C.
Well, I guess I should point out that I'm not playing in the DRTL, or even ever applied to play in any D-ranked league. All I'm saying is that if people want to play in a league because they love playing StarCraft, and meet the requirements, then I see no problem. There are a bunch of C- people who don't want Puppykiller because they don't want to lose, and want to bash on players like yourself instead. Like who? If you are going to talk shit, be transparent about it. If you're going to say I'm talking shit, you need to be transparent about what shit is being spoken of. Do I really have to spell it out for you? I guess understanding context is pretty hard. Okay. You keep saying that people don't want Puppykiller in the league, because they are afraid of him, and just want to bash on low level D- players. Who are you talking about? You are trying to talk shit to said players, but are too afraid to name them.
If you're going make these assertions, you're going to have to be more transparent about what you mean by "Puppykiller".
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I really do not think this whole "1 C player" in DRTL is a good idea. Yes I can understand C Rank players want to have an as active league as D Ranks, but as far as I remember only D Rank players organizes this stuff. There are plenty of C Rank players who have already hosted/organized a tour, why don't they just host a league for once in a while?
For DRATL I sorted players out by reviewing their replays. And kicked out 1 or 2 (cant remember) while letting in some people borderline D+/C- in. And beside CityShuffle who went 11-2 or something in this league, none of the other had a really good record. RedAxis had like 7-3 wOw.Fre3dom (who many thought would be too good, like many of the NW team) went like 6-3 or something. So my suggestion would be that LMaster (if he knows what to focus on in a replay, otherwise with someone else knowing it) would watch 9 replays of every borderline registration (3 reps per matchup each). It aint that much work and you can clearly see if someone is better than everyone else in this league (even if they try to play bad in those 9 games).
But about allowing 1 C rank set, I am personally against it. There is still BWCL and iCCCL for higher ranked players and no one is stopping you C Ranks from hosting a CRTL.
Poll: Allow 1 C Rank Match in DRTL?No (37) 70% Yes (14) 26% 2 C Rank Matches (1) 2% Yes, but D Rank Ace (1) 2% 53 total votes Your vote: Allow 1 C Rank Match in DRTL? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): 2 C Rank Matches
(Vote): Yes, but D Rank Ace
Last but not least, we DRTL players and LMaster know there are pretty good players in this league and rest assured that if there is someone who is TOO good, then there will be actions. But as Teamliquid has some goodwill with high post-counter people (in Banning them), we have a goodwill with people established in the D Ranks community (from Season 1, 2 etc.) which are maybe a bit too good.
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On March 02 2013 15:48 chrisolo wrote:I really do not think this whole "1 C player" in DRTL is a good idea. Yes I can understand C Rank players want to have an as active league as D Ranks, but as far as I remember only D Rank players organizes this stuff. There are plenty of C Rank players who have already hosted/organized a tour, why don't they just host a league for once in a while? For DRATL I sorted players out by reviewing their replays. And kicked out 1 or 2 (cant remember) while letting in some people borderline D+/C- in. And beside CityShuffle who went 11-2 or something in this league, none of the other had a really good record. RedAxis had like 7-3 wOw.Fre3dom (who many thought would be too good, like many of the NW team) went like 6-3 or something. So my suggestion would be that LMaster (if he knows what to focus on in a replay, otherwise with someone else knowing it) would watch 9 replays of every borderline registration (3 reps per matchup each). It aint that much work and you can clearly see if someone is better than everyone else in this league (even if they try to play bad in those 9 games). But about allowing 1 C rank set, I am personally against it. There is still BWCL and iCCCL for higher ranked players and no one is stopping you C Ranks from hosting a CRTL. Poll: Allow 1 C Rank Match in DRTL?No (37) 70% Yes (14) 26% 2 C Rank Matches (1) 2% Yes, but D Rank Ace (1) 2% 53 total votes Your vote: Allow 1 C Rank Match in DRTL? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): 2 C Rank Matches
(Vote): Yes, but D Rank Ace
Last but not least, we DRTL players and LMaster know there are pretty good players in this league and rest assured that if there is someone who is TOO good, then there will be actions. But as Teamliquid has some goodwill with high post-counter people (in Banning them), we have a goodwill with people established in the D Ranks community (from Season 1, 2 etc.) which are maybe a bit too good.
They even said earlier a CRTL was in the works
why are people still wanting C rank players to play ffs?
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On March 02 2013 15:48 chrisolo wrote:I really do not think this whole "1 C player" in DRTL is a good idea. Yes I can understand C Rank players want to have an as active league as D Ranks, but as far as I remember only D Rank players organizes this stuff. There are plenty of C Rank players who have already hosted/organized a tour, why don't they just host a league for once in a while? For DRATL I sorted players out by reviewing their replays. And kicked out 1 or 2 (cant remember) while letting in some people borderline D+/C- in. And beside CityShuffle who went 11-2 or something in this league, none of the other had a really good record. RedAxis had like 7-3 wOw.Fre3dom (who many thought would be too good, like many of the NW team) went like 6-3 or something. So my suggestion would be that LMaster (if he knows what to focus on in a replay, otherwise with someone else knowing it) would watch 9 replays of every borderline registration (3 reps per matchup each). It aint that much work and you can clearly see if someone is better than everyone else in this league (even if they try to play bad in those 9 games). But about allowing 1 C rank set, I am personally against it. There is still BWCL and iCCCL for higher ranked players and no one is stopping you C Ranks from hosting a CRTL. Poll: Allow 1 C Rank Match in DRTL?No (37) 70% Yes (14) 26% 2 C Rank Matches (1) 2% Yes, but D Rank Ace (1) 2% 53 total votes Your vote: Allow 1 C Rank Match in DRTL? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): 2 C Rank Matches
(Vote): Yes, but D Rank Ace
Last but not least, we DRTL players and LMaster know there are pretty good players in this league and rest assured that if there is someone who is TOO good, then there will be actions. But as Teamliquid has some goodwill with high post-counter people (in Banning them), we have a goodwill with people established in the D Ranks community (from Season 1, 2 etc.) which are maybe a bit too good.
I am going to vote yes to have 1 C rank set played during the DRTL.
There is an opportunity to close a gap a bit more with how D rank players, and C rank players interact. Sure there is BWCL and ICCL, but a recognition of skill is what sets this league apart from the others. Eventually a few players will leave the D rank range, and venture to the C level, but who is to say we should cast them aside, and be prejudice the moment they cross a thresh hold. Having C level players still interact with the D level players, not only allows a better insight in a development process, but keeps the bonds strong that we still have a common love of trying to get better in starcraft. Yeah they can coach, and teach us, but why not allow the opportunity to truly learn from example. With having that 1 C player that's on your team play against another, the game those 2 players play against each other becomes a bit more powerful, then saying that this build order is stable, or you should micro like this. It comes a bit closer to heart, because your rooting for your player to win, and whether or not they win, the critique of how the game was played echos louder then just watching how Bisu played against Jaedong, or Flash played against Effort.
I am for the idea of letting 1-2 C rank players into a team, because its not just about the game, but about being a better player, and better person.
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It's worth noting that adding in 1 C match gets more overall matches for D players.
Bo7 is too big with 9 person teams. Bo6 is probably ideal, but obviously can't work b/c of ties. Adding that C match allows for 6 D matches instead of all D Bo5.
Something to consider.
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Or you could let the Ace be played by a player who already played in the regular six matches, thus able to play Bo7. This already was the case in one of the previous DRTLs.
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EPT
