On May 26 2012 11:19 Sawamura wrote: I am not sure if I would be in during the games so I made the polls ready for the games today ..
that means you shouldn't be LR'ing though? I always make sure I'm available.
I won't be live reporting any way ... I just made the thread just to continue the tradition of making live report threads for spl. I would be out for lunch for a while I hope I will come back in time to update op.
Soulkey making the choice to expand to his mineral only first Initial overlord headed up to 1 oclock Drone scout heading out also Forge then nexus for Jangbi
Jangbi having a manner pylon at Soulkey's nat Off center hatch for Soulkey instead Lings out, going to chase away the probe Mineral only is up and running, gas is being gathered by the drones
Hydra den up at the mineral only Only a single cannon at the wall for Jangbi Lings going to keep a soft contain, but a probe+zealot is trying to poke out Off center hatch goes up, and drones start to mine from it
Second zealot out, forge spinning Core up, not spinning and stargate is warping in On center hatchery is now morphing in at the natural Second cannon warping in now, first sair on the way and citadel is warping in
Jangbi scouts the hydras More cannons being added on, 4 total Sair is out and has scouted everything Lair morphing, Soulkey expanding to 6 oclock Adding 2 gates, 3 total One hydra dies to a cannon, you don't see that very often
4 gates total, my mistake Second gas being added on for Soulkey 2 more gates, 6 total Zealots pushing out, kill off the lings, but the hydras are ktingthe slow lots pretty well, that is until hydra speed kicks in Archives is on the way Gate and forge have not gone down, though forge is in the yellow
Spire morphing in now Forge falls, and the gate at the front is going down also Speedlots catch 3-4 hydras off and force Soulkey back +1 speedlots run head first into the group of hydras, but pull back 4 zealots run into the 6 oclock, and force away the drones Jangbi was hoping to run by his main force of zealots but thats not happening
EsportsTV never works for me TT Anyone else get the problem of constant buffer and black screen? Four mutas out, snipe off the first three HT, only one storm gets off Zealots ripping through the first few hydras, but it evens out, and Soulkey is now up 25 supply 50-75 Mutas ripping through probes now
Single sair not going to be able to do much Second sair , But the mutas will be able to brute force their way through No cannon in the main, muta scourge going to camp the stargate Third sair pops out and then gets killed off Core is spinning Goons being incorporated now
Soulkey sacks the mutas to get the HT Going for the hydra bust, one storm, but there isn't enough to push it back GG from Jangbi Soulkey takes the set for Stars to put them up 1-0 in the BW bo3
On May 26 2012 12:16 BLinD-RawR wrote: ok game...meh.
the quality of players should have provided a much better game, so its underwhelming for me :/ edit: I dont know how Jangbi pretends to play vs Action like this. Soulkey was ok i guess
On May 26 2012 12:08 RunningInSquares wrote: Where is everyone in the audience?
at home, somewhere else.
people don't like the hybrid league and it shows.
you sound really... unhyped
I'm just waiting for good games, so far the lackluster games have left me with a bad taste..
I am broodwar starved ...... looking at how things are going the bw sets are merely just fillers for the teams since they have been practising only sc2 which explains the quality of the games even though they are A class pro gamer.
Edit : I compared the audience which are still huge in osl versus pro league hybrid audience that are quite small in numbers hopefully this will deliver the right message to kespa saying there is something wrong here.
Jangbi made the huge mistake of letting the ovie scout his base. Given his early 2nd gas, he should've had a 2nd corsair scout around the base. After that, soulkey had it in the bag because Jangbi couldn't transition out of his 6-gate build.
On May 26 2012 12:08 RunningInSquares wrote: Where is everyone in the audience?
at home, somewhere else.
people don't like the hybrid league and it shows.
you sound really... unhyped
I'm just waiting for good games, so far the lackluster games have left me with a bad taste..
I am broodwar starved ...... looking at how things are going the bw sets are merely just fillers for the teams since they have been practising only sc2 which explains the quality of the games even though they are A class pro gamer.
Edit : I compared the audience which are still huge in osl versus pro league hybrid audience that are quite small in numbers hopefully this will deliver the right message to kespa saying there is something wrong here.
On May 26 2012 12:08 RunningInSquares wrote: Where is everyone in the audience?
at home, somewhere else.
people don't like the hybrid league and it shows.
you sound really... unhyped
I'm just waiting for good games, so far the lackluster games have left me with a bad taste..
I am broodwar starved ...... looking at how things are going the bw sets are merely just fillers for the teams since they have been practising only sc2 which explains the quality of the games even though they are A class pro gamer.
Edit : I compared the audience which are still huge in osl versus pro league hybrid audience that are quite small in numbers hopefully this will deliver the right message to kespa saying there is something wrong here.
How are the two crowds compared?
Osl crowd are huge in comparison to the current proleague one . Usually back than in proleague when it was full broodwar the crowd was still decent compared to the one we are seeing now.
Initial overlord headed down to 7 instead of across to 1 Probe scout headed in the incorrect direction Forge first, and a pool first, looks like overpool
On May 26 2012 12:27 Xiphos wrote: holy shit, look at those empty seats.
its disheartening.
me recalling 2 years ago, a mere match between wemade and hite would garner louder cheers.... esports...what happened?
Well we have to see what the viewer count on youtube is when SC2 is played. Right now it's about 600, so if it's significantly higher, then Kespa can live with a hit in Korean audience if the foreign audience makes it up
On May 26 2012 12:27 Xiphos wrote: holy shit, look at those empty seats.
its disheartening.
me recalling 2 years ago, a mere match between wemade and hite would garner louder cheers.... esports...what happened?
Makes sense, BW fans won't come out to watch the finality of the end of the scene, and SC2 fans will not come out to watch "subpar" SC2 games. Come to think of it, BW fans won't come out to watch subpar BW games, either. This format doesn't please enough people.
On May 26 2012 12:27 Xiphos wrote: holy shit, look at those empty seats.
its disheartening.
me recalling 2 years ago, a mere match between wemade and hite would garner louder cheers.... esports...what happened?
Well we have to see what the viewer count on youtube is when SC2 is played. Right now it's about 600, so if it's significantly higher, then Kespa can live with a hit in Korean audience if the foreign audience makes it up
No local korean support is actually bad for kespa because in the end it's the fan who makes the game .
ling runby, 4 lings make it in First sair gets picked off by scourge 4 speedlots running into the nat of Shine, sunken goes down, but lings clean up January looks not amused Mutas just camping over the stargate
shy was my favourite of the starters/rookies last season, moreso than mini/turn/dear. he's done baller 4 shuttle on icarus (iirc) and hallucinated arbiters, etc etc. Sad to see his quality of games decline and won't ever get to really rise to the top in bw.
Shine's probably going to win his OSL group, too. The last Bonjwa, Typhoon zerg!!!!!!!!!
Hey, serious idea: someone should do a brief statistical hoo-hah about the average length of game of this season, compare it to average length of game last season (which was also short, but not this short!), and then compare it to say, two years ago, before all the teams disbanded. I swear these games have just been ending so quickly these last twelve months. Even last season the games were ridiculously brief (Bo5's => fewer appearances => fewer games => win by any means), but a chunk were still "high quality." This season? The only good games I've seen this season have been in the OSL
On May 26 2012 12:35 L3gendary wrote: The osl games are still packed. Has nothing to do with LoL.
The OSL always had more spectators than PL. Even now, the crowd seems smaller in OSL.
OSL is also BW only, whereas BW fans here has to sit through multiple SC2 games to see more BW games.
But this kind of difficulties for a transitioning period is expected. Now the question is whether the SC2 scene will take off in Korean, and if there's enough foreign income to make it sustainable. At this point though, it seems to be somewhat of a failure. BW fans are checking out. While SC2 fans aren't going to be interested until they can start competing with GSL code S players.
On May 26 2012 12:41 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Shine's probably going to win his OSL group, too. The last Bonjwa, Typhoon zerg!!!!!!!!!
Hey, serious idea: someone should do a brief statistical hoo-hah about the average length of game of this season, compare it to average length of game last season (which was also short, but not this short!), and then compare it to say, two years ago, before all the teams disbanded. I swear these games have just been ending so quickly these last twelve months. Even last season the games were ridiculously brief (Bo5's => fewer appearances => fewer games => win by any means), but a chunk were still "high quality." This season? The only good games I've seen this season have been in the OSL
The ONLY game that I would consider into 'good' category for PL was ZerO vs Mini. Beside that, every other games don't even last the 10 minutes mark. Its all coinflip strategies vs dice rolling.
On May 26 2012 12:35 L3gendary wrote: The osl games are still packed. Has nothing to do with LoL.
The OSL always had more spectators than PL. Even now, the crowd seems smaller in OSL.
OSL is also BW only, whereas BW fans here has to sit through multiple SC2 games to see more BW games.
But this kind of difficulties for a transitioning period is expected. Now the question is whether the SC2 scene will take off in Korean, and if there's enough foreign income to make it sustainable. At this point though, it seems to be somewhat of a failure. BW fans are checking out. While SC2 fans aren't going to be interested until they can start competing with GSL code S players.
slap a 10 dollar ticket in there to watch, invite some random foreigner not already doing other stuff in 3 months (white ra, whoever), and sc2 fans would pay.
On May 26 2012 12:41 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Shine's probably going to win his OSL group, too. The last Bonjwa, Typhoon zerg!!!!!!!!!
Hey, serious idea: someone should do a brief statistical hoo-hah about the average length of game of this season, compare it to average length of game last season (which was also short, but not this short!), and then compare it to say, two years ago, before all the teams disbanded. I swear these games have just been ending so quickly these last twelve months. Even last season the games were ridiculously brief (Bo5's => fewer appearances => fewer games => win by any means), but a chunk were still "high quality." This season? The only good games I've seen this season have been in the OSL
The ONLY game that I would consider into 'good' category for PL was ZerO vs Mini. Beside that, every other games don't even last the 10 minutes mark. Its all coinflip strategies vs dice rolling.
On May 26 2012 12:35 L3gendary wrote: The osl games are still packed. Has nothing to do with LoL.
The OSL always had more spectators than PL. Even now, the crowd seems smaller in OSL.
OSL is also BW only, whereas BW fans here has to sit through multiple SC2 games to see more BW games.
But this kind of difficulties for a transitioning period is expected. Now the question is whether the SC2 scene will take off in Korean, and if there's enough foreign income to make it sustainable. At this point though, it seems to be somewhat of a failure. BW fans are checking out. While SC2 fans aren't going to be interested until they can start competing with GSL code S players.
I have admittedly watched only 4 SC2 Kespa games this season thus far. Guemchi's, Kal's, Sun's, and... some other SKT vs T8 game. Two I watched live, the other two just because I like ACE. I haven't even watched Effort vs Flash, or Lizzy's games.
I can't get into it (not SC2 itself, but THIS form of SC2). If I want BW, I watched PL. If I want SC2, I'll watch IPL, MLG, or even on a slow day NASL a game or two. I don't tune into PL for SC2 games, because these are the best BW players in the world, they are not SC2 players and can never hope to be good at it while they're forced to alternate between games.
On May 26 2012 12:47 ppshchik wrote: I don't know why people are surprised that Shine raped Shy. Shine is someone who eliminated Bisu (best PvZ'er) in multiple OSL's, A great ZvP'er
Shine always has raped Bisu, and its the OSL, its not Bisu's tournament
On May 26 2012 12:41 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Shine's probably going to win his OSL group, too. The last Bonjwa, Typhoon zerg!!!!!!!!!
Hey, serious idea: someone should do a brief statistical hoo-hah about the average length of game of this season, compare it to average length of game last season (which was also short, but not this short!), and then compare it to say, two years ago, before all the teams disbanded. I swear these games have just been ending so quickly these last twelve months. Even last season the games were ridiculously brief (Bo5's => fewer appearances => fewer games => win by any means), but a chunk were still "high quality." This season? The only good games I've seen this season have been in the OSL
The ONLY game that I would consider into 'good' category for PL was ZerO vs Mini. Beside that, every other games don't even last the 10 minutes mark. Its all coinflip strategies vs dice rolling.
On May 26 2012 12:41 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Shine's probably going to win his OSL group, too. The last Bonjwa, Typhoon zerg!!!!!!!!!
Hey, serious idea: someone should do a brief statistical hoo-hah about the average length of game of this season, compare it to average length of game last season (which was also short, but not this short!), and then compare it to say, two years ago, before all the teams disbanded. I swear these games have just been ending so quickly these last twelve months. Even last season the games were ridiculously brief (Bo5's => fewer appearances => fewer games => win by any means), but a chunk were still "high quality." This season? The only good games I've seen this season have been in the OSL
The ONLY game that I would consider into 'good' category for PL was ZerO vs Mini. Beside that, every other games don't even last the 10 minutes mark. Its all coinflip strategies vs dice rolling.
Horang2 v Stats was okay
But yeah your point stands
Shine's last ZvZ was a great game, haters
Correct me if I'm wrong but are you talking about OSL? We're talking PL only
Ugh, you know another grievance I have against this format? So much fewer BW TvZs! Only 3 games (sometimes only two!), we may never see an awesome TvZ again.
Fact started, two scvs pulled off gas, Reality going for the expo Pylon put up at the top of Flying's main, wonder what thats for Goon headed out to scout the 1 oclock Machine shop being added, and CC started in the main Core spinning
Siege is done for Reality Rax floating to sight for the tanks, and CC floating over to the nat Second fact and academy both coming up Both players natural's come up at almost exactly the same time 3 gates total, robo and obs are up
On May 26 2012 12:35 L3gendary wrote: The osl games are still packed. Has nothing to do with LoL.
The OSL always had more spectators than PL. Even now, the crowd seems smaller in OSL.
OSL is also BW only, whereas BW fans here has to sit through multiple SC2 games to see more BW games.
But this kind of difficulties for a transitioning period is expected. Now the question is whether the SC2 scene will take off in Korean, and if there's enough foreign income to make it sustainable. At this point though, it seems to be somewhat of a failure. BW fans are checking out. While SC2 fans aren't going to be interested until they can start competing with GSL code S players.
slap a 10 dollar ticket in there to watch, invite some random foreigner not already doing other stuff in 3 months (white ra, whoever), and sc2 fans would pay.
Not for the quality of games we've been seeing. The SC2 isn't much better than the BW. Today's Code S qualifiers had several-minute-long screenwide battles (which, sadly, is unusual in SC2) and mass speed prism storm drops and feedback drops that completely changed my thoughts on PvZ.
The KeSPA SC2 has Terrans sitting in their bases and waiting to die, when they're not running laps around nexuses.
I'm really curious to see the week-by-week improvement. I'm hoping there's at least some harass in the SC2, which I haven't seen yet.
But enough of that, this BW game looks like it might be good
On May 26 2012 12:54 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Upon further notice, TvP is one matchup that hasn't been completely mutilated this year. It's still almost always 1 gate range expo vs siege expand
Are reaver drops still common going into midgame PvT?
Marine camped out at 3 oclock to check for the expo Darts in and out to check for the warp in, but it sees nothing Three vultures try to dart past the goons, but they get caught and the ai causes them to all die Marine sees the 3 oclock, in response throws down the 3rd CC
Goons headed onto the high ground, push down on the tanks, but the tanks and mines shred the goons Reality's mech has been pushed down to 2 tanks and a vulture, Two goons from the strike force remain Vulture finds the maynarding line of probes, going to get 4 Stargate and archives warping in
On May 26 2012 12:54 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Upon further notice, TvP is one matchup that hasn't been completely mutilated this year. It's still almost always 1 gate range expo vs siege expand
Are reaver drops still common going into midgame PvT?
I certainly wouldn't describe the as uncommon, but it's primarily the usual suspects who still do it (Jangbi, Stork, Bisu sometimes).
Forge added also, 6 gates total 5 facts Science facility coming up, starport is up Still 0-0 for steel upgrades Flying looking to take 1 nat as his fourth
Dropship out on the field, almost flies head first into goons Obs does not spot it! Flying going to take his fifth at the 1 oclock main One tank, two vultures dropped Cannon kills off the tank! Shuttle is out, and Reality's drop is rendered useless
Flying is pretty ahead no? Terran hardly harassed this game, letting him get onto 5 bases 2-1 is done I believe, Reality going to start the death march Arbiter coming in for a recall EMP hits, but the recall happens regardless
110-80, Reality in the lead The fourth is under attack though, but it looks like it will get cleaned up Reality needs to take a fifth imo, but what do I know Flying distance mining from the nat
Flying played that wrong imo, he should have focused on clearing the area between his main and his 3rd/4th instead of trying to attack Reality's bases.
On May 26 2012 13:14 a176 wrote: i think t+z only have 1 win in sc2 pl?
They got one win each on the opening day, can't remember the results from midweek.
It's because PL players are really passive. If both players just sit back and macro, Terran will never win in SC2, That's not a balance whine, Terran just needs to be aggressive midgame, and the Proleague Terrans aren't.
gosh darnit FBH would be infinitely more fun to watch as terran in sc2 than toss
BW pros, stay terran please or FBH should come out with a twitter statement saying blizzard i will only switch to terran when you buff it enough that i deem it an equal playing field
nah nvm thats lame but there should at least be maybe a massive fan poll or something taken by the proleague website or something for the korean fans to vote if they would like to see their favorite players stay or switch race
so the players would know how their korean fans feel about the race switch i know a player should be allowed to play whatever he wants but he might be influenced by fan opinion
On May 26 2012 13:16 Dosey wrote: FBH lost to a terran I thought...?
Why o why would FBH switch from Terran to Protoss??/ Makes me sad
He will always be terran in my heart
It'sa switch that makes sense. Both races are the turtles of their respective games. Plus protoss is a bit easier to pick up and be good at the game when starting on an even field because it's a very forgiving race.
On May 26 2012 13:30 X10A wrote: Uh Turn going CC first, before rax Rax depot wall is up for Light, one rax CC That CC upgrade is done for Light, uh orbital Double gas for Light also
Light bunker rushing Turn, but it looks like it will get shut down and the bunker gets canceled Two rax for Turn Fact on the way for Light, CC is done at his nat
Reactor for the swap, uh the mobile fire vultures going to come out Tech lab next to a starport, the wraith counterpart, I think is coming out Three rax for turn and a fact is on the way Stim is researching
On May 26 2012 13:32 X10A wrote: Reactor for the swap, uh the mobile fire vultures going to come out Tech lab next to a starport, the wraith counterpart, I think is coming out Three rax for turn and a fact is on the way Stim is researching
I actually really like your LRs
Light going cloak bansees, but Turn has a ton of marines and stim on the way, so probably won't do too much.
On May 26 2012 13:33 X10A wrote: Wraith thingy and cloak on the way Scan from Turn, sees the starport and add on Third CC on the way from Light, does not cancel cloak
Ohhh, its a banshee, okay Tank is out for Light, and seige mode is about half way done Banshee is cloaked and has a few kills on the scvs, didn't see due to the pop up ads
On May 26 2012 13:32 X10A wrote: Reactor for the swap, uh the mobile fire vultures going to come out Tech lab next to a starport, the wraith counterpart, I think is coming out Three rax for turn and a fact is on the way Stim is researching
It's a banshee coming out of the starport. There isn't really a wraith counterpart in SC2, there's the viking which is air to air only and can transform to a ground to ground only mech, and the banshee which can only attack ground with a much stronger weapon than the wraith(and has cloak)
Turn goes for a huge doom drop. Loses all the medivacs to turrets, and does enough damage that it's not a total disaster, but still didn't go well for him
Turn pushing out to the center of the map to the vision tower Huge drop being loaded up for Turn, 4 dropships full One dropship falls Tanks killing alot of the bio, but the bio force stims back and kites some of the scvs Banshee still alive, almost dies Light I think came out on top of that Damn supply and resources so hard to read
Blue flame for Light, and an armory is on the way Third CC under construction from Turn, two more starports too Mech style from Light Mobile flame vultures roaming around the map killing scouting scvs
I'd just like to comment, I like Turn's hair <3 Marine, denies the third of Light for a few brief moments Scouts the blue flames from the fire vultures, if he was paying attention to it Uh whats that building next to the turret at the low ground of Light? Fire vulture drop headed towards Turn's main
Turn counters a blue flame hellion drop by not having any workers in his main (?) Turn attacks the third with a banshee and air control Light runs some hellions into Turn's third, but doesn't control very weel
Fire vultures force the scv transfer, but they get cleaned up by the other bio unit, uh marauder? Even more fire vultures get into the third of Turn, and fry off some more scvs
Turn is trying to establish air supremacy, because mech beats bio in a straight up fight unless you can catch the tanks unsieged. However, if Turn controls the air he can use banshees to pick off defenseless tanks and hellions.
Oh they're called hellions, fire vulture sounds cooler Uh lots of the aa ships for both players, and A HUGE SEIGE for Light, and Light's tanks crush through the bio of Turn The tanks and the goliath on steroids are pushing towards Turn's part of the map scv on scv action at the 3rd of Turn Seems legit
On May 26 2012 13:42 X10A wrote: Oh they're called hellions, fire vulture sounds cooler Uh lots of the aa ships for both players, and A HUGE SEIGE for Light, and Light's tanks crush through the bio of Turn The tanks and the goliath on steroids are pushing towards Turn's part of the map scv on scv action at the 3rd of Turn Seems legit
Please don't learn SC2, and continue LRing like this.
Turn didn't seem to know how to play Bio vs Mech. He didn't do enough drops and multi-pronged attacks. The sky terran switch was really awkward and weird.
Pretty solid mech play from Light. Turn didn't play the bio vs mech matchup right. Mech destroys bio straight up, but is incredibly immobile. To counteract it, the bio player has to abuse his mobility advantage with drops everywhere, stim runbys, and trying to catch tanks unsieged before they can set up in range of your base.
On May 26 2012 13:42 X10A wrote: Oh they're called hellions, fire vulture sounds cooler Uh lots of the aa ships for both players, and A HUGE SEIGE for Light, and Light's tanks crush through the bio of Turn The tanks and the goliath on steroids are pushing towards Turn's part of the map scv on scv action at the 3rd of Turn Seems legit
Please don't learn SC2, and continue LRing like this.
Turn didn't seem to know how to play Bio vs Mech. He didn't do enough drops and multi-pronged attacks. The sky terran switch was really awkward and weird.
2nd this. I know nothing in SCtoo, so your LR is a lot of fun!!
On May 26 2012 13:43 HighTemper wrote: Mech rapes bio, what is new?
Actually, Turn play bio quite wrong. Bio need to abuse immobility of mech to win against them. When Light turtle on three bases, Turn had a chance to mass expand (like adding two more CC) and macro a lot more. He need to get the watch tower to see how the mech player move the army and catches the tanks unsieged.
On May 26 2012 13:46 mcmartini wrote: Don't woojin have the old slayers coach? Or is that another team?
Yes. That's woongjin.
Turn played that wrong. He needs to surround with his bio and catch the tanks unseiged. But I guess being a terran BW player, the concept of "surround" may be new to him.
On May 26 2012 13:43 HighTemper wrote: Mech rapes bio, what is new?
Actually, Turn play bio quite wrong. Bio need to abuse immobility of mech to win against them. When Light turtle on three bases, Turn had a chance to mass expand (like adding two more CC) and macro a lot more. He need to get the watch tower to see how the mech player move the army and catches the tanks unsieged.
When playing Bio Terran vs Mech Terran in SC2, you basically have to play like BW Zerg, and expand a shit ton, flank, backstab, etc. Mech, especially in large numbers, destroys bio comically in straight-up fights.
On May 26 2012 13:46 mcmartini wrote: Don't woojin have the old slayers coach? Or is that another team?
Yes, they do. In related news, the top player formerly under the tutlege of that coach has had a very hard fall from grace ever since he went to Woongjin. He was easily relegated to Code A after being considered one of the top three terrans in the world for half a year or so. I never realized the importance of coaches till then.
I'm excited to see how the Woongjin Terran line does. Their Zerg line with Soulkey and ZerO is already pretty strong, and a strong Terran line in addition would be pretty scary.
On May 26 2012 13:46 mcmartini wrote: Don't woojin have the old slayers coach? Or is that another team?
Yes, they do. In related news, the top player formerly under the tutlege of that coach has had a very hard fall from grace ever since he went to Woongjin. He was easily relegated to Code A after being considered one of the top three terrans in the world for half a year or so. I never realized the importance of coaches till then.
I follow Sc2 as well MMA had a hard time. He played fine in recent tournaments besides GSL.
And how do u make this work? I get an error typing this into "Open Network Stream"
Quote from other thread
On May 26 2012 13:46 Raskit wrote: If you are having trouble with VLC, try using the cache option under show more options in the network window. I set it to 15 seconds and it seems to have been enough.
Zero going to finally take his second expo at the 6 oclock, looks to be an inner expo Double manner pylon from Stork lol Forge-nexus-cannon-gate Double gas, and that time warp thingy from the nexus used to make probes faster
On May 26 2012 13:59 X10A wrote: Uh can someone explain the neutral depot at the ramp to me? Is it to counter wall offs? 13-14 pool I think the audience got bigger during the break
It's to counter Terran walling the bottom of their ramp with one depot and one rax, blocking drone scouts easily. There's also a REALLY silly cheese where you wall a Zerg into their main with three pylons and cannon rush.
On May 26 2012 14:01 X10A wrote: Zero going to finally take his second expo at the 6 oclock, looks to be an inner expo Double manner pylon from Stork lol Forge-nexus-cannon-gate Double gas, and that time warp thingy from the nexus used to make probes faster
On May 26 2012 13:59 X10A wrote: Uh can someone explain the neutral depot at the ramp to me? Is it to counter wall offs? 13-14 pool I think the audience got bigger during the break
Yes it is to prevent walling off at the bottom of the ramp which was done vs zerg by toss with 3 pylons or terrans with bunkers
@Ribbon, makes sense Uh, thats a queen? Hmm feels strange not to have it flying Core at the bottom of the ramp into the nat for Stork Natural taking by Zero as his third Uh queens barffing into the hatcheries to make more larvae, gee zerg reproduce strangely
On May 26 2012 14:01 X10A wrote: Zero going to finally take his second expo at the 6 oclock, looks to be an inner expo Double manner pylon from Stork lol Forge-nexus-cannon-gate Double gas, and that time warp thingy from the nexus used to make probes faster
Stargate opening Uhh, I don't know anything besides a carrier, I'm going to go with the scout on this tship that just popped, and a corsair for the follow up Robo on the way Evo and the new 1.5 tier unit, the roach building on the way
On May 26 2012 14:04 X10A wrote: Stargate opening Uhh, I don't know anything besides a carrier, I'm going to go with the scout on this tship that just popped, and a corsair for the follow up Robo on the way Evo and the new 1.5 tier unit, the roach building on the way
The fast ship is a phoenix, and the slower rotating one is a void ray.
Lair morphing Uh two sairs and a scout for Stork for some air harass Thats cut, spores being made Uh so these sairs can lift things up, thats cute Scout takes a bit of damage, and three queens are out to force them back and to avange the fourth one that lost her life
On May 26 2012 14:01 X10A wrote: Zero going to finally take his second expo at the 6 oclock, looks to be an inner expo Double manner pylon from Stork lol Forge-nexus-cannon-gate Double gas, and that time warp thingy from the nexus used to make probes faster
time warp thingy = chrono boost
no its warp time thingy.
sawa y u so chobo :p
-_- they should have label that macro function as chrono trigger .
On May 26 2012 14:01 X10A wrote: Zero going to finally take his second expo at the 6 oclock, looks to be an inner expo Double manner pylon from Stork lol Forge-nexus-cannon-gate Double gas, and that time warp thingy from the nexus used to make probes faster
time warp thingy = chrono boost
no its warp time thingy.
sawa y u so chobo :p
-_- they should have label that macro function as chrono trigger .
Yet another queen is lifted up and killed, and a third is taking fire, and dies Immaculate control, keeps all of the corsair ships alive Three gates to block off the third, nice wall off Warpgate tech is up, I always thought a warp gate was that thing in the campgain A dragoon with really really big guns is out, surrounded by little things that resemble larger probes I think I should learn this game, but this seems pretty entertaining speculating everything
On May 26 2012 14:01 X10A wrote: Zero going to finally take his second expo at the 6 oclock, looks to be an inner expo Double manner pylon from Stork lol Forge-nexus-cannon-gate Double gas, and that time warp thingy from the nexus used to make probes faster
time warp thingy = chrono boost
no its warp time thingy.
sawa y u so chobo :p
-_- they should have label that macro function as chrono trigger .
Hive is on the way, as is spire Hydras are being produced, and the larger, more disgusting looking defilers It's those things from War of the Worlds, the aliens! 1-1 being upgraded for the zerg, 1 melee attack
Greater spire is on the way Whats the guardian and devourer equivalent? +1 ranged zerg attack is already upgraded 1-01- for toss upgrades +2 attack is being time warped
Lots of sunken colonies being made, or whatever they're called The corsairs finally die over top of zerg army Stork looking to take a fourth at 12 oclock
So, these brood lord things look to be morphing in over head the battle They launch broodlords, but don't oneshot? Strange The WotW tripods are air units?
On May 26 2012 14:10 X10A wrote: So, these brood lord things look to be morphing in over head the battle They launch broodlords, but don't oneshot? Strange The WotW tripods are air units?
they are massive units that can be killed by both air to air and land units
On May 26 2012 14:10 X10A wrote: So, these brood lord things look to be morphing in over head the battle They launch broodlords, but don't oneshot? Strange The WotW tripods are air units?
On May 26 2012 14:10 X10A wrote: So, these brood lord things look to be morphing in over head the battle They launch broodlords, but don't oneshot? Strange The WotW tripods are air units?
Their basic attack does 25 damage and spawns a broodling at the target. They throw broodlings, whereby in my understanding the BW Queens' ability inserts broodling larvae in its victim that hatches and eats its host, destroying it in the process.
136-161 supply Zero ahead Lots of the dtGoons as the core of Stork's army +1 air attack on the way, and a 5th on the way for Stork Shuttle is moving out, loaded up with four zealots Burrowed ling does not spot it though No crackling upgrade Lings try to counter the 12 oclock, but get killed off Zealots drop at the 7.5, the shuttle acts as a pylon? Thats pretty cool The defilers lessen in number, by like two, but the zealots die off pretty quickly
I thought the key to winning ZvP was lots of hydras? Shine is going to hate this game Something other than a probe being made out of the nexus? Thats the over glorified arbiter correct? Damn I ask alot of questions Storm is being researched And there are a ton of the sunken colony things midmap to act as a buffer
Mothership is completely standard in late game PvZ, actually. Archon toilet(vortexing a Zerg army and sending in archons for massive AOE damage) is the best counter to Zerg's standard broodlord/infestor lategame comp.
On May 26 2012 14:13 X10A wrote: I thought the key to winning ZvP was lots of hydras? Shine is going to hate this game Something other than a probe being made out of the nexus? Thats the over glorified arbiter correct? Damn I ask alot of questions Storm is being researched And there are a ton of the sunken colony things midmap to act as a buffer
Stork expanding yet again, sixth base Both players maxed out 1-0-3 for Stork 2-0 air for zerg not sure about anything else Another mobile pylon shuttle moving out, not loaded with anything DT building is warping in
On May 26 2012 14:13 X10A wrote: I thought the key to winning ZvP was lots of hydras? Shine is going to hate this game Something other than a probe being made out of the nexus? Thats the over glorified arbiter correct? Damn I ask alot of questions Storm is being researched And there are a ton of the sunken colony things midmap to act as a buffer
In SC2 hydras are a very niche unit, mostly used for very specific all in builds that involve a nydus in PvZ, or as supporting units in ZvZ. They are extremely slow off creep, expensive, require a lair and very vulnerable to many of the more popular units in the game like colossi, templar and tanks.
Lots of overlords just hanging out Zealot speed is upgrading and so are the shield and armory upgrades The great wall of sunken colonies that can walk, mother of god
Offensive teleport forward by the dtGoons and they take out the defilers uh stasis pool thing thrown down, whirlpool? Stork looks in trouble 140-190 Both players have a huge bank
Well from what I gather from this game Guardians are pretty good in this game, sunkens and spore can move Overglorified arbiter is pretty bad, storms are pretty bad and overlords aren't detectors
On May 26 2012 14:19 X10A wrote: Well from what I gather from this game Guardians are pretty good in this game, sunkens and spore can move Overglorified arbiter is pretty bad, storms are pretty bad and overlords aren't detectors
Stork's mothership play wasn't very good, and Zero played perfectly against it.
On May 26 2012 14:19 X10A wrote: Well from what I gather from this game Guardians are pretty good in this game, sunkens and spore can move Overglorified arbiter is pretty bad, storms are pretty bad and overlords aren't detectors
On May 26 2012 14:19 X10A wrote: Well from what I gather from this game Guardians are pretty good in this game, sunkens and spore can move Overglorified arbiter is pretty bad, storms are pretty bad and overlords aren't detectors
Pretty much. Only real use for arbiter now is vortex. The spines blocking the archons from going into it seemed unintentional, but it was a brilliant play nonetheless.
On May 26 2012 14:19 X10A wrote: Well from what I gather from this game Guardians are pretty good in this game, sunkens and spore can move Overglorified arbiter is pretty bad, storms are pretty bad and overlords aren't detectors
On May 26 2012 14:19 X10A wrote: Well from what I gather from this game Guardians are pretty good in this game, sunkens and spore can move Overglorified arbiter is pretty bad, storms are pretty bad and overlords aren't detectors
The mothership can be absurdly powerful if used properly. The vortex + a few Archons can wipe out an entire Zerg army
On May 26 2012 14:19 X10A wrote: Well from what I gather from this game Guardians are pretty good in this game, sunkens and spore can move Overglorified arbiter is pretty bad, storms are pretty bad and overlords aren't detectors
Stork's mothership play wasn't very good, and Zero played perfectly against it.
Yeah, he need more archon and target it more effectively. If he can get 10 Broodlords in it, then it would be a game changer.
On May 26 2012 14:18 Ribbon wrote: 20 spine crawlers in the main attack force :O
Sorry, but if this is legitimate then SC2 is a fucked game.
I don't really understand why Stork couldn't just slowly grind down the spinecrawlers with collosi, though.
the point is it shouldn't have worked.
it doesn't work in normal sc2 games I've seen.
Zero's BL spread was impeccable, and the spines keep attacking, so the archons couldnt go in. Ingenious plan actually, we are already seeing smart play that you don't see in GSL
On May 26 2012 14:19 X10A wrote: Well from what I gather from this game Guardians are pretty good in this game, sunkens and spore can move Overglorified arbiter is pretty bad, storms are pretty bad and overlords aren't detectors
You would have shit a brick if you saw when cannons could move.
if you saw Ace VS Bbong last night you see that Ace has totally found a way to poke holes into this mass broodlord style. blink stalkers around the entire map decimating everything the zerg has with defensive recalls and broodlords are too immobile to catch the stalkers then entire zerg base dies before he can touch the tosses main
once tosses master this im sure mass broodlords will go out of style and zergs will need a more mobile army likely with ultras and infestors lategame since ultras are super fast on creep and with fungal destroys stalkers with a couple broodlords sprinkled in to serve as a power force
On May 26 2012 14:19 X10A wrote: Well from what I gather from this game Guardians are pretty good in this game, sunkens and spore can move Overglorified arbiter is pretty bad, storms are pretty bad and overlords aren't detectors
The mothership can be absurdly powerful if used properly. The vortex + a few Archons can wipe out an entire Zerg army
On May 26 2012 14:19 X10A wrote: Well from what I gather from this game Guardians are pretty good in this game, sunkens and spore can move Overglorified arbiter is pretty bad, storms are pretty bad and overlords aren't detectors
Pretty much. Only real use for arbiter now is vortex.
This stopped being true exactly yesterday. Ace in the GSL kept the Mship at home at kept attack one corner of the map, then mass recalling back home when the slow ass Brood Lords got over there so he could attack some other corner next, while mixing in tons of drops. It completely changed my view of PvZ, and was way more fun to watch.
On May 26 2012 14:19 X10A wrote: Well from what I gather from this game Guardians are pretty good in this game, sunkens and spore can move Overglorified arbiter is pretty bad, storms are pretty bad and overlords aren't detectors
You would have shit a brick if you saw when cannons could move.
WHAT?! Uh ace pick for Khan is Reality? For Stars, it'll be Free
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
What about mass air? Does that have a chance?
"You have to land a perfect spell combo" should never be the thing which makes a matchup balanced. It makes a whole fight decided by one move, in 1-2 key seconds. Horrible for spectators =(
On May 26 2012 14:18 Ribbon wrote: 20 spine crawlers in the main attack force :O
Sorry, but if this is legitimate then SC2 is a fucked game.
I don't really understand why Stork couldn't just slowly grind down the spinecrawlers with collosi, though.
the point is it shouldn't have worked.
it doesn't work in normal sc2 games I've seen.
Zero's BL spread was impeccable, and the spines keep attacking, so the archons couldnt go in. Ingenious plan actually, we are already seeing smart play that you don't see in GSL
I seriously got nerd chills when ZerO used his Overlord Creep Poop to set up a massive forward Spine Crawler defense (offense?) for his Broodlords to hide over, which was great in nullifying the Archon Toilet in addition to his decent BL spread.
ZerO looks REALLY strong in ZvP. Stork looked decent too, but ZerO looked impeccable for a hybrid league player.
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
What about mass air? Does that have a chance? (
Not really. Void rays can go kind of even with corruptors. However, when they wipe each other out the zerg play can instantly make another 20+ corruptors at once, while the protoss is stuck queuing them up at his stargates.
Kay, I will try my best to LR as much SPL, both BW and scToo <3 I wonder if Free is going to return to top 3 toss, or keep playing the way I've expected him to play for the last while now
In relation to X10A's observations, ever notice that protoss' anti-air (phoenix) unit is now just a dual-blaster fast unit, meaning it's a scout with corsair speed, and that the void ray is the slower, vulnerable, phase/pulse/beam attacker, meaning it's just like a large corsair with unpgraded scout speed?
You can choose to mass air, but remember you got to have enough stargates to reproduce your air units and also keep up the ground battle during the mid-late game transition. Stargates aren't light on gas either...
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
What about mass air? Does that have a chance?
"You have to land a perfect spell combo" should never be the thing which makes a matchup balanced. It makes a whole fight decided by one move, in 1-2 key seconds. Horrible for spectators =(
That is one of the most complains about ZvP really, but at the same time there is no other way to fight against BL/infestor, hopefully Hots will fix that. Air doesnt work because of so many infestors.
On May 26 2012 14:19 X10A wrote: Well from what I gather from this game Guardians are pretty good in this game, sunkens and spore can move Overglorified arbiter is pretty bad, storms are pretty bad and overlords aren't detectors
Pretty much. Only real use for arbiter now is vortex. The spines blocking the archons from going into it seemed unintentional, but it was a brilliant play nonetheless.
You guys need to see ST_Ace's play last night against BboongBboong. he kept his mothership throughout the game around his base and used it for recall. He would poke his army into an zerg expansion, kill the hatch and the drones. Just as the zerg army comes in, he uses recall to bring his entire army back home. Very good use of the mothership.
On May 26 2012 14:29 Zariel wrote: You can choose to mass air, but remember you got to have enough stargates to reproduce your air units and also keep up the ground battle during the mid-late game transition. Stargates aren't light on gas either...
Not to mention since they aready have BL tech and corrupters make short work of anything air its not really worth it
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
What about mass air? Does that have a chance?
"You have to land a perfect spell combo" should never be the thing which makes a matchup balanced. It makes a whole fight decided by one move, in 1-2 key seconds. Horrible for spectators =(
That is one of the most complains about ZvP really, but at the same time there is no other way to fight against BL/infestor, hopefully Hots will fix that. Air doesnt work because of so many infestors.
The defensive Mass Recall style Ace showed ran circles around it,. Check out those VODs.
Anyway, TvP on Ohana, now. For some reason, I expect cheese.
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
What about mass air? Does that have a chance?
"You have to land a perfect spell combo" should never be the thing which makes a matchup balanced. It makes a whole fight decided by one move, in 1-2 key seconds. Horrible for spectators =(
That is one of the most complains about ZvP really, but at the same time there is no other way to fight against BL/infestor, hopefully Hots will fix that. Air doesnt work because of so many infestors.
The defensive Mass Recall style Ace showed ran circles around it,. Check out those VODs.
Anyway, TvP on Ohana, now. For some reason, I expect cheese.
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
What about mass air? Does that have a chance?
"You have to land a perfect spell combo" should never be the thing which makes a matchup balanced. It makes a whole fight decided by one move, in 1-2 key seconds. Horrible for spectators =(
Yeah, that part of the current ZvP styles sucks. However, as people have said, Ace showed a really interesting PvZ style yesterday with constant harass to wear down a broodlord zerg.
Large numbers of void rays are quite powerful in PvZ, but they can get hammered by infestors casting fungal growth. Maybe a BW pro with good spreading and feedbacks could make it work though.
I suck at SC2, but wasn't zero using the spines to prevent archon toilet? If you have broodlords over spines, then the archons shouldn't be able to get in, right?
I know people keep saying you need Void Rays against late game zerg. But from the few long PvZs I've seen, protosses never try that.
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
What about mass air? Does that have a chance?
"You have to land a perfect spell combo" should never be the thing which makes a matchup balanced. It makes a whole fight decided by one move, in 1-2 key seconds. Horrible for spectators =(
That is one of the most complains about ZvP really, but at the same time there is no other way to fight against BL/infestor, hopefully Hots will fix that. Air doesnt work because of so many infestors.
The defensive Mass Recall style Ace showed ran circles around it,. Check out those VODs.
Anyway, TvP on Ohana, now. For some reason, I expect cheese.
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
What about mass air? Does that have a chance?
"You have to land a perfect spell combo" should never be the thing which makes a matchup balanced. It makes a whole fight decided by one move, in 1-2 key seconds. Horrible for spectators =(
Yeah, that part of the current ZvP styles suck. However, as people have said, Ace showed a really interesting PvZ style yesterday with constant harass to wear down a broodlord zerg.
Large numbers of void rays are quite powerful in PvZ, but they can get hammered by infestors casting fungal growth. Maybe a BW pro with good spreading and feedbacks could make it work though.
Theory crafting is good but when you have to take in to account a lot of millions thing to do when you are playing starcraft executing all these counters on the fly when you are macroing and engaging at the same time is going to be hard.
On May 26 2012 14:33 baubo wrote: I suck at SC2, but wasn't zero using the spines to prevent archon toilet? If you have broodlords over spines, then the archons shouldn't be able to get in, right?
I know people keep saying you need Void Rays against late game zerg. But from the few long PvZs I've seen, protosses never try that.
Void rays with that number of infestors and corruptors already on the field is dead supply. It's all about abusing the low mobility of the zerg army and ultimately, the archon toilet
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
What about mass air? Does that have a chance?
"You have to land a perfect spell combo" should never be the thing which makes a matchup balanced. It makes a whole fight decided by one move, in 1-2 key seconds. Horrible for spectators =(
Yeah, that part of the current ZvP styles suck. However, as people have said, Ace showed a really interesting PvZ style yesterday with constant harass to wear down a broodlord zerg.
Large numbers of void rays are quite powerful in PvZ, but they can get hammered by infestors casting fungal growth. Maybe a BW pro with good spreading and feedbacks could make it work though.
Theory crafting is good but when you have to take in to account a lot of millions thing to do when you are playing starcraft executing all these counters on the fly when you are macroing and engaging at the same time is going to be hard.
It's been used already... By a SC2 player that should have less apm than BW players. So it's entirely possible.
On May 26 2012 14:33 baubo wrote: I suck at SC2, but wasn't zero using the spines to prevent archon toilet? If you have broodlords over spines, then the archons shouldn't be able to get in, right?
I know people keep saying you need Void Rays against late game zerg. But from the few long PvZs I've seen, protosses never try that.
Yes but spine crawlers deal a lot of Dps against stalkers, so stalkers can not blink under the broodlords to kill them. Void Rays are never used because of infestors, if u stack a lot of void rays you will just get fungaled to death, prob with a good spread you will still get killedd back by infested terrans + fungal + corruptors, plus they are so gas heavy.
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
What about mass air? Does that have a chance?
"You have to land a perfect spell combo" should never be the thing which makes a matchup balanced. It makes a whole fight decided by one move, in 1-2 key seconds. Horrible for spectators =(
Yeah, that part of the current ZvP styles suck. However, as people have said, Ace showed a really interesting PvZ style yesterday with constant harass to wear down a broodlord zerg.
Large numbers of void rays are quite powerful in PvZ, but they can get hammered by infestors casting fungal growth. Maybe a BW pro with good spreading and feedbacks could make it work though.
Theory crafting is good but when you have to take in to account a lot of millions thing to do when you are playing starcraft executing all these counters on the fly when you are macroing and engaging at the same time is going to be hard.
It's been used already... By a SC2 player that should have less apm than BW players. So it's entirely possible.
Just have a question really quick. Got my wisdom teeth pulled out last week, should I be good to drink sodas now? And this looks like a two players map, do I smell cheese? Free left his booth?
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
What about mass air? Does that have a chance?
"You have to land a perfect spell combo" should never be the thing which makes a matchup balanced. It makes a whole fight decided by one move, in 1-2 key seconds. Horrible for spectators =(
Yeah, that part of the current ZvP styles suck. However, as people have said, Ace showed a really interesting PvZ style yesterday with constant harass to wear down a broodlord zerg.
Large numbers of void rays are quite powerful in PvZ, but they can get hammered by infestors casting fungal growth. Maybe a BW pro with good spreading and feedbacks could make it work though.
Theory crafting is good but when you have to take in to account a lot of millions thing to do when you are playing starcraft executing all these counters on the fly when you are macroing and engaging at the same time is going to be hard.
That's more or less what I'm saying. Pro games to date have shown void rays beating lots of zerg comps, but losing once there are infestors in decent numbers. In theory there might be ways around it with micro, but we haven't seen anthing like that yet.
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
What about mass air? Does that have a chance?
"You have to land a perfect spell combo" should never be the thing which makes a matchup balanced. It makes a whole fight decided by one move, in 1-2 key seconds. Horrible for spectators =(
Yeah, that part of the current ZvP styles suck. However, as people have said, Ace showed a really interesting PvZ style yesterday with constant harass to wear down a broodlord zerg.
Large numbers of void rays are quite powerful in PvZ, but they can get hammered by infestors casting fungal growth. Maybe a BW pro with good spreading and feedbacks could make it work though.
Theory crafting is good but when you have to take in to account a lot of millions thing to do when you are playing starcraft executing all these counters on the fly when you are macroing and engaging at the same time is going to be hard.
It's been used already... By a SC2 player that should have less apm than BW players. So it's entirely possible.
Who ?
ST_Ace, against BBoongBBoongPrime last night (yesterday) in GSL Up & Down match.
On May 26 2012 14:36 X10A wrote: Just have a question really quick. Got my wisdom teeth pulled out last week, should I be good to drink sodas now? And this looks like a two players map, do I smell cheese? Free left his booth?
On May 26 2012 14:36 X10A wrote: Just have a question really quick. Got my wisdom teeth pulled out last week, should I be good to drink sodas now? And this looks like a two players map, do I smell cheese? Free left his booth?
The only thing you have to do is use that little squirter thing they gave you and rinse your wounds will salt water frequently (not hourly, just often enough).
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
What about mass air? Does that have a chance?
"You have to land a perfect spell combo" should never be the thing which makes a matchup balanced. It makes a whole fight decided by one move, in 1-2 key seconds. Horrible for spectators =(
Yeah, that part of the current ZvP styles suck. However, as people have said, Ace showed a really interesting PvZ style yesterday with constant harass to wear down a broodlord zerg.
Large numbers of void rays are quite powerful in PvZ, but they can get hammered by infestors casting fungal growth. Maybe a BW pro with good spreading and feedbacks could make it work though.
Theory crafting is good but when you have to take in to account a lot of millions thing to do when you are playing starcraft executing all these counters on the fly when you are macroing and engaging at the same time is going to be hard.
It's been used already... By a SC2 player that should have less apm than BW players. So it's entirely possible.
Who ?
ST_Ace, against BBoongBBoongPrime last night (yesterday) in Up & Down match.
He basically abused mothership recall only right ?
On May 26 2012 14:36 X10A wrote: Just have a question really quick. Got my wisdom teeth pulled out last week, should I be good to drink sodas now? And this looks like a two players map, do I smell cheese? Free left his booth?
I wouldn't suggest it... but if it isn't hurting you can always try.
On May 26 2012 14:33 baubo wrote: I suck at SC2, but wasn't zero using the spines to prevent archon toilet? If you have broodlords over spines, then the archons shouldn't be able to get in, right?
I know people keep saying you need Void Rays against late game zerg. But from the few long PvZs I've seen, protosses never try that.
Void rays with that number of infestors and corruptors already on the field is dead supply. It's all about abusing the low mobility of the zerg army and ultimately, the archon toilet
It look quite hard to harass late game zerg. I mean, creep makes reinforcement easy, and slow ass storms shouldn't be that effective against a zerg with fast reaction time.
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
What about mass air? Does that have a chance?
"You have to land a perfect spell combo" should never be the thing which makes a matchup balanced. It makes a whole fight decided by one move, in 1-2 key seconds. Horrible for spectators =(
Yeah, that part of the current ZvP styles suck. However, as people have said, Ace showed a really interesting PvZ style yesterday with constant harass to wear down a broodlord zerg.
Large numbers of void rays are quite powerful in PvZ, but they can get hammered by infestors casting fungal growth. Maybe a BW pro with good spreading and feedbacks could make it work though.
Theory crafting is good but when you have to take in to account a lot of millions thing to do when you are playing starcraft executing all these counters on the fly when you are macroing and engaging at the same time is going to be hard.
It's been used already... By a SC2 player that should have less apm than BW players. So it's entirely possible.
Who ?
ST_Ace, against BBoongBBoongPrime last night (yesterday) in Up & Down match.
He basically abused mothership recall only right ?
He used a lot of warp prism too for HT drops/ zealot warpins and overall harassment in multiple locations. Very good against such an immobile army
On May 26 2012 14:39 X10A wrote: Thanks guys! Uh I didn't get one, I'll just rinse with warm water and salt Free back in booth now I think the delays are over
Well mine were impacted and weren't even near breaching the gums, so I had some deep wounds. Pleasant.
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
What about mass air? Does that have a chance?
"You have to land a perfect spell combo" should never be the thing which makes a matchup balanced. It makes a whole fight decided by one move, in 1-2 key seconds. Horrible for spectators =(
Yeah, that part of the current ZvP styles suck. However, as people have said, Ace showed a really interesting PvZ style yesterday with constant harass to wear down a broodlord zerg.
Large numbers of void rays are quite powerful in PvZ, but they can get hammered by infestors casting fungal growth. Maybe a BW pro with good spreading and feedbacks could make it work though.
Theory crafting is good but when you have to take in to account a lot of millions thing to do when you are playing starcraft executing all these counters on the fly when you are macroing and engaging at the same time is going to be hard.
That's more or less what I'm saying. Pro games to date have shown void rays beating lots of zerg comps, but losing once there are infestors in decent numbers. In theory there might be ways around it with micro, but we haven't seen anthing like that yet.
as a high master protoss i can tell you voidrays absolutely do work however thats in like a 9base vs 9base scenario
look at zero he had like 7 bases and until the game was over only like 700 gas banked
as toss to do a voidray switch u gotta make like 6-7 stargates at 150gas a piece to match zergs macro at any decent rate and then start massing voids and u probably want air upgrades sooner than later
anyway mass voidrays DO work but just pure cost mechanics mean no game ever will reasonably *reach* that point
m18 massed voidrays and beat a zerg in the first day of proleague but the zerg just didnt know how to counter that "straight into voidrays" style where m18 just went straight into voids instead of tech switching into them lategame and theres extreme weaknesses in doing that wont even bother listing them
It's got to mess with your head if you play in the BW set and then have to come back out for SC2 the same day. Don't know how players would prepare for that.
On May 26 2012 14:25 Zariel wrote: From my own experience as a protoss player, the ONLY counter to a broodlord late game composition is landing an archon toilet.
When broodlords reach a critical mass, it becomes an uphill battle if you decide to use blink stalkers to pick them off.
What about mass air? Does that have a chance?
"You have to land a perfect spell combo" should never be the thing which makes a matchup balanced. It makes a whole fight decided by one move, in 1-2 key seconds. Horrible for spectators =(
Yeah, that part of the current ZvP styles suck. However, as people have said, Ace showed a really interesting PvZ style yesterday with constant harass to wear down a broodlord zerg.
Large numbers of void rays are quite powerful in PvZ, but they can get hammered by infestors casting fungal growth. Maybe a BW pro with good spreading and feedbacks could make it work though.
Theory crafting is good but when you have to take in to account a lot of millions thing to do when you are playing starcraft executing all these counters on the fly when you are macroing and engaging at the same time is going to be hard.
It's been used already... By a SC2 player that should have less apm than BW players. So it's entirely possible.
Who ?
ST_Ace, against BBoongBBoongPrime last night (yesterday) in Up & Down match.
He basically abused mothership recall only right ?
He abused both Warp Prism for Drop/Warp in and then recall back the base, while dropping another Zerg's base at the same time.
On May 26 2012 14:39 X10A wrote: Thanks guys! Uh I didn't get one, I'll just rinse with warm water and salt Free back in booth now I think the delays are over
Whatever you do... DO NOT use a straw though or you are in for a world of pain.
Proxy rax from Reality, at the ~9 oclock Another rax in the main, and the CC is upgrading Gate, gate, core Probe scouts the terran main Free goign to skip on the zealot?
On May 26 2012 14:41 Jumbled wrote: It's got to mess with your head if you play in the BW set and then have to come back out for SC2 the same day. Don't know how players would prepare for that.
On May 26 2012 14:41 Jumbled wrote: It's got to mess with your head if you play in the BW set and then have to come back out for SC2 the same day. Don't know how players would prepare for that.
Apparently they solve this problem by cheesing.
I expect an epic cheese Reality vs JD style .
Fire vultures, wraiths that are 10x better ground but have no aa and scvs that are less buffed than they were 12 years ago Reality cheese Reality going to all in Time warping another dtGoon and adding two gates Nexus is still warping in at his nat
On May 26 2012 14:32 Turbovolver wrote: I wasn't trying to start a balance discussion, because I really am not good enough at the game to know that stuff.
I'm just trying to feel out if I should keep spectating this game or not.
It feels like having moving "static" defense lets you abuse the food cap limit a terrible degree, as Zero did that game.
Well you also have to be aware that the Spinecrawlers are unable to attack while they're uprooted, take quite a few seconds to burrow, and they also move very very slowly so what you saw isn't "the usual" at all.
If the Protoss had seen that he was moving the Spinecrawlers under the Broodlords WITHOUT zerglings to function as a meat shield, he could have gone in and absolutely DECIMATED that army while it was moving.
Alternatively, if the Mothership was out earlier, a Vortex while that army was moving would have also resulted in a decimated Zerg army. More High Templars and Psi Storm would also have destroyed that composition because they are 100% unable to move, and it should have been very easy to flank that forward position.
tl;dr: That Zerg composition is not infallible and there were several things Stork could have done to win.
All the dtGoons are low or dying Manner yellow scv, thats cute Artosis pylon powering both gates, why don't you just take it out Free is dead One last dtGoon and its over
On May 26 2012 14:46 X10A wrote: All the dtGoons are low or dying Manner yellow scv, thats cute Artosis pylon powering both gates, why don't you just take it out Free is dead One last dtGoon and its over
I think he needed to cancel his nexus and get a groundArbiter and RampStasis himself.
On May 26 2012 14:46 X10A wrote: All the dtGoons are low or dying Manner yellow scv, thats cute Artosis pylon powering both gates, why don't you just take it out Free is dead One last dtGoon and its over
I think he needed to cancel his nexus and get a groundArbiter and RampStasis himself.
Those little, larger than probe probes? groundArbiter sounds better. <3
On May 26 2012 14:46 X10A wrote: All the dtGoons are low or dying Manner yellow scv, thats cute Artosis pylon powering both gates, why don't you just take it out Free is dead One last dtGoon and its over
I think he needed to cancel his nexus and get a groundArbiter and RampStasis himself.
Lol, you guys made me enjoy the LR more than the games!
On May 26 2012 14:41 MountainDewJunkie wrote: I also dislike forced cross-position maps.
Ohana is a 2 player map.
Entombed Valley is NOT forced cross spawns, however it does disable horizontal spawns. So you can get either cross spawn or vertical spawn.
Mmm, didn't know these things, thanks.
I was like, "This map is huge! It's gonna be a long -- oh, proxy 2 rax -_-"
Ohana's actually a pretty small map, by modern standards. A big map in SC2 looks more like this (which is a GSL map, and thus has all spawns allowed)
Actually that map - the Whirwind is now put as a test in GSTL. If its good it will be added to GSL
Oh and big props for doing SC2 LR. Its hilarious those BW units analogies are killing me (yeah im from SC2 and groundorbiter is sick name ) keep up the good work.
On May 26 2012 14:55 Black[CAT] wrote: I have not watch PL ever since the opening day... I normally will watch all PL games back then....
It's understandable though since it's no longer broodwar only bo7.
Yeah, you should separate the sets.
Set 1 for BW. Set 2 for SC2 Set 3 for Ace
Also, if a Set goes 2-0, the 3rd game's lineup is mentioned. In this case, it was suppose to be Sharp vs Free in the 3rd SC2 game. So you can put that into the lineup. This will make things clear for those reading.
On May 26 2012 14:19 X10A wrote: Well from what I gather from this game Guardians are pretty good in this game, sunkens and spore can move Overglorified arbiter is pretty bad, storms are pretty bad and overlords aren't detectors
The mothership can be absurdly powerful if used properly. The vortex + a few Archons can wipe out an entire Zerg army
Absurd was how the terran there just a moved without microing his army into a mothership. Vortex is not that powerful aganist players with some split micro.
On May 26 2012 14:19 X10A wrote: Well from what I gather from this game Guardians are pretty good in this game, sunkens and spore can move Overglorified arbiter is pretty bad, storms are pretty bad and overlords aren't detectors
The mothership can be absurdly powerful if used properly. The vortex + a few Archons can wipe out an entire Zerg army
Absurd was how the terran there just a moved without microing his army into a mothership. Vortex is not that powerful aganist players with some split micro.
This format is honestly fucking terrible. For one thing it's totally unfair to ACE who barely have time to practice one game. And secondly you get results like this.
On May 26 2012 14:19 X10A wrote: Well from what I gather from this game Guardians are pretty good in this game, sunkens and spore can move Overglorified arbiter is pretty bad, storms are pretty bad and overlords aren't detectors
The mothership can be absurdly powerful if used properly. The vortex + a few Archons can wipe out an entire Zerg army
Absurd was how the terran there just a moved without microing his army into a mothership. Vortex is not that powerful aganist players with some split micro.
Same in the other thread. Guess someone doesn't understand the format.
No, the problem is that the OP doesn't separate the ace from the rest of the SC2 set, so it looks as if Set6 (which would be played out if not a 2-0 win) is in the main SC2 set and not the ace set.
Same in the other thread. Guess someone doesn't understand the format.
No, the problem is that the OP doesn't separate the ace from the rest of the SC2 set, so it looks as if Set6 (which would be played out if not a 2-0 win) is in the main SC2 set and not the ace set.
Err, this is "not understanding the format". He doesn't know that it's 2 x bo3s + SC2 ace match if both teams won one bo3 each.
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