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jpak
United States5045 Posts
On July 13 2011 05:14 djbhINDI wrote: OK, I'm fucking confused. Flash lost to Carriers? Everything here says he won vs sairs or something... This is the right game: I'm very much looking forward to the next round of playoffs. Time to see which team CJ will play!!! | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
The thing about d-webs is, when you think about it, even if you know it's coming as a T you gotta be extreme careful on your push. If you siege at the wrong time then you just made a big portion of tanks useless for a time being. The problem i think for P is managing to storm everything and get goons into actual useful positions to kill tanks and not other units. Very difficult to pull off, but maybe viable? Bisu has better sair control and multitasking... | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On July 13 2011 07:26 infinity2k9 wrote: Unlucky to Shuttle who played an interesting strategy in a high-risk game. I respect any player who would do something like that. However i'm not sure the openness of the map helped. Also maybe the sairs could have taken turret fire to be able to drop/harass the Island. It still wouldn't give away he's going for dwebs. Yes it would... a protoss would only get sairs vT for 1 reason, and that's d-web (not to mention Flash knew about the fleet beacon anyway). The second he shows them, the element of surprise is gone. | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On July 13 2011 07:51 moopie wrote: Yes it would... a protoss would only get sairs vT for 1 reason, and that's d-web (not to mention Flash knew about the fleet beacon anyway). The second he shows them, the element of surprise is gone. Only one reason... except for the reason i just gave, to take turret fire to cover for a drop? lol. If a P got a sair to take hits considering the extent of the island defense and used it to drop a shuttle or 2 you'd assume that he's also going for d-web? Considering Stargate tech will likely be up the use of a sair in such a manner wouldn't be strange at all. Yes if he flies 8 sairs over the island to take damage, then there's a clue. The 3rd base was very important in that game and gave Flash the easy eco advantage and win. Hence why so many turrets and the patrol wraith. Even seeing 2 sairs show up to maybe engage the wraith and take turret hits wouldn't indicate d-web. This is an important expo. | ||
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Tenhou
1052 Posts
On July 13 2011 09:41 infinity2k9 wrote: Only one reason... except for the reason i just gave, to take turret fire to cover for a drop? lol. If a P got a sair to take hits considering the extent of the island defense and used it to drop a shuttle or 2 you'd assume that he's also going for d-web? Considering Stargate tech will likely be up the use of a sair in such a manner wouldn't be strange at all. Yes if he flies 8 sairs over the island to take damage, then there's a clue. The 3rd base was very important in that game and gave Flash the easy eco advantage and win. Hence why so many turrets and the patrol wraith. Even seeing 2 sairs show up to maybe engage the wraith and take turret hits wouldn't indicate d-web. This is an important expo. So you're saying is that it makes more sense to waste some corsair(including the time making them instead of more gateways) just to drop an island? What units are going out of that shuttle? Well I think that the Terran would push to your natural right away once he saw those corsair and the units in the shuttle, he'll know you have way less units and some useless corsair so losing his island expo for that 3rd is fine if it wins him the game. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On July 13 2011 09:41 infinity2k9 wrote: Only one reason... except for the reason i just gave, to take turret fire to cover for a drop? lol. If a P got a sair to take hits considering the extent of the island defense and used it to drop a shuttle or 2 you'd assume that he's also going for d-web? Considering Stargate tech will likely be up the use of a sair in such a manner wouldn't be strange at all. Yes if he flies 8 sairs over the island to take damage, then there's a clue. The 3rd base was very important in that game and gave Flash the easy eco advantage and win. Hence why so many turrets and the patrol wraith. Even seeing 2 sairs show up to maybe engage the wraith and take turret hits wouldn't indicate d-web. This is an important expo. If Flash sees a toss with 2 stargates and a fleet beacon, and then sees sairs flying around then yes I expect he'd figure it out. Besides, using (and/or losing) sairs to tank turrets is very inefficient of the toss. If you wanted to drop and needed a shield while you unload your shuttle, you could get another shuttle.... 200/0 vs 150/100. Shuttle wanted Flash to expect carriers (which he did, thus after seeing the fleet beacon he made a couple rounds of goliaths). If you are making a carrier switch that early and thus sacrificing some of your ground army, you will not want to waste the gas or the stargates (build time) on wasted units. You'd want to get as many carriers out as possible :/ If the terran doesn't put 2 and 2 together, then he will just think you are delaying your carriers and wasting gas (and stargate build time) on a worthless unit at the cost of more ground units/carriers, and just push on you. | ||
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RoieTRS
United States2569 Posts
Corsairs are for dweb only. dweb does the same thing as stasis only it comes out earlier and you can get more of them at good timings. They are however inherently worse than stasis because zealots can no longer attack tanks and your dragoons sometimes get caught in them, and the terran can move out of them. Basically in that game shuttle prepared for flash's first push but flash saw it coming and seiged accordingly and that was game. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13528 Posts
If he'd gone pure goon/d-web vs the first push it could've been a lot different. Still, kudos for trying. | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2452 Posts
On July 13 2011 12:44 RowdierBob wrote: Dunno why shuttle made so made so many zeals =/ If he'd gone pure goon/d-web vs the first push it could've been a lot different. Still, kudos for trying. That's Shuttle style, baby! I remember him going mass zeals in GOM all those years ago, he did well with it too. | ||
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Emon_
3925 Posts
On July 13 2011 05:04 Torenhire wrote: I think you mean "insane" but still...the strategy was entertaining. It's a shame he wasn't able to multitask enough to pull the strategy off. Maybe it'll be Bisu's secret weapon in the finals :p Yeah - it was supposed to be insane. Cool strategy though. Had he done better in the first engagement he could've won. Oh well | ||
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Vasoline73
United States8181 Posts
On July 13 2011 12:44 RowdierBob wrote: Dunno why shuttle made so made so many zeals =/ If he'd gone pure goon/d-web vs the first push it could've been a lot different. Still, kudos for trying. I was thinking about that too... zeals stop attacking under web. Probably better to only have a few... | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On July 13 2011 15:37 GolemMadness wrote: Any interviews anywhere? www.fomos.kr | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
I really miss Kal's play when he was at his peak. So exciting. | ||
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L0thar
987 Posts
loool, that was quite hilarious interview, especially Flash's answers and especially the two remarks towards Hoejja. Poor guy haha. But it seems there is pretty cheerful atmosphere in KT, which is great. It's also quite funny how much Flash wanted revenge. And it's interesting that he looked so "unimpressed" after beating Shuttle, considering how much he wanted to win. Maybe he was dissapointed by Shuttle's play? The remark that he "went on a TvP practice spree for many hours afterwards" should also ease worried fans a little bit, seems like Flash doesn't have that much problems practicing. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13528 Posts
On July 13 2011 14:24 Vasoline73 wrote: I was thinking about that too... zeals stop attacking under web. Probably better to only have a few... Gotta do it like ForU did in the old Pimpest Play days... As you say, the zeals are useless if they go under the web and goons do pretty well when they're not being shelled by tanks. Problem is, as Flash showed, you can just unsiege and move back using the webs to your advantage to take out the goons... Web costs 125 energy I think? Takes too long to recharge and Flash had way too strong tech and eco by then to lose. Cute strategy, but pretty dumb by Shuttle IMO. Unless he decisively won that first battle he was always going to be screwed. | ||
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zanzib
China152 Posts
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On July 14 2011 12:26 zanzib wrote: how does the corsair trump the arbiter, it seems like the arbiter has more dynamic potential in PvT with recall/stasis and cloaking than say disabling a small area from attacking Well I think the answer to your question is the most obvious one: it doesn't. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On July 14 2011 12:26 zanzib wrote: how does the corsair trump the arbiter, it seems like the arbiter has more dynamic potential in PvT with recall/stasis and cloaking than say disabling a small area from attacking Corsairs are quite a bit cheaper than Arbiters (150/100 vs 100/350), and build a hell of a lot faster (40 vs 160 seconds). As such, a toss can mass a group of sairs off 2/3 base relatively quickly, in time to engage the terran just as the terran moves out into the middle of the map. Had he gotten all the storms off in that attack instead of just the 1, that engagement would have gone better. If you are asking as a general question, then in a long macro game the Corsair doesn't have an advantage over an Arbiter in the PvT matchup (which is why they are almost never seen). This was strictly to attempt and disrupt Flash's army at that timing. Had he succeeded in breaking that army, Flash would have been unable to push out or secure a 4th base while Shuttle would have expand and macrod up a large force. | ||
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