[MST] Group 2 - Page 21

On July 08 2011 15:23 Legatus Lanius wrote:
pvt only gets gay when the protoss can get a big chunk of carriers. pvz is always gay late game

On July 08 2011 17:09 J1.au wrote:

How old are you?

On July 08 2011 15:14 KamMoye wrote:
People john for Protoss too much. 56% win rate v Terran this Proleague season? PvT is the most unbalanced matchup. Stop crying. And I say that with Bisu my favorite player and Protoss my favorite race.

On July 08 2011 01:31 saltywet wrote:


SPL 2010-2011

TvZ: 100-90 (52.6%) [ Games ]
ZvP: 114-109 (51.1%) [ Games ]
PvT: 120-94 (56.1%) [ Games ]

On July 08 2011 20:11 MuffinDude wrote:

Lol. How long have you followed the proscene? Of all the racial advantage match-ups (P>T, Z>P, T>Z), PvT is by far the most balanced match up. All terrans, except flash, has been sucking a lot recently so you can't blame the match up.

On July 09 2011 20:02 Winechu wrote:
Though I don't share Legatus Lanius' sentiments, when I watch PvZ I do feel that it looks ridiculously tough, especially late game. However, I don't think that it is due to imba as much as it is due to the lack of innovation in the match-up.

For example, watching + Show Spoiler + made me think a lot about what protoss can do to a zerg who turtles to hive on 6 hatches, and after reading an opinion piece regarding this on fomos, I do concur with Kingdom's thoughts in that DAs should be used more late game to snipe defilers, along with good reaver usage. Bisu doesn't need to as much because he usually plays from an advantage, but that shouldn't stop other Ps from incorporating these elements into their play. A counterargument to using DAs may be that using feedback uses too much APM and DAs are a hefty investment, but that was the same thing said about queens, and look at its place in ZvMech now.

The same thing with incorporating stargate-tech late game. Arbiters are a natural transition since you already have the tech. We've seen Jaehoon and Flying experiment with it to varying degrees of effectiveness (from DAEBAK! in flying vs. yarnc to wtf jaehoon in jaehoon vs. roro), but it still remains relatively unexplored. Think about what if the P army can just by pass the simcity/sunkens and just attack the zerg 4th/Main. There's a lot of potential here. Protoss players should think about incorporating this in their play and figuring out the timings to get arbs out. Again, same thing with getting a fleet beacon, consair preservation amongst P progamers have been improving consistently, this is a fairly natural transition. D-web can help against sunkens (for instance in Tempest vs. Kwanro on polaris rhapsody) and also defensively, it's a fairly flexible spell and a lot of room for creativity with regards to how it can be used. Air weapons upgrades to shred ovies faster and remove dropping from the Z's options. There's a lot to be explored here as well, but again P players are reluctant. We see players (e.g. Kal) toy with the idea, but not tinker with their builds and try incorporate it.

Not much to do with innovation, but Protoss in general also skimp on having cannons, sim-citying and reavers to protect their bases and then complain about "cracklings imba". Hmm, I wonder why Nal_rA didn't have as much problem with crackling raids?

Another issue is too much predictability. E.g. Most protoss players FE every game. Sure, FE > 1 basing because 2 base vs. 3 hatch > 1 base vs. 2 hatch, simple maths. But going 1 base once in a while throws Zs off. Like JB vs. Hyun this group. Stork vs. by.Hero/Hydra/Zerg[kal]. Zs take for granted that Ps are going to FE and just put down their third automatically, 1 basing once in awhile can keep them on their toes. Plus, they're forced to play with less resources than they're usually used to, and force them to adopt a different build than what they've initially planned. Sure, maybe its viability is map dependent, but if the map is favourable for it then why not? Instead, we see players ditch it completely as an option. I'm not even sure if some Ps remember how to play 1base strategies vZ anymore. Using and refining such strategies can be a useful weapon against an unsuspecting zerg, but nope, Ps like being predictable. Because FE best opening right? Why 1base when you can 2base? Stork and JangBi noobs obviously.

-Frustrated P fanboy