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This is a post that Yellow wrote on his fan site to his fans a few hours after the semis. Long before the semis there has always been the talk of how Terran is more advantageous than other races and to make it worse the terran favoring maps are just too much for other players. Now as Yellow claims that Terran is too good compared to the other races, this claim is gaining very much approval. Still others are saying Yellow is retarded for blaming the game itself/maps and claiming that the Terran players are just too good compared to the other race players and that's why Terran is owning up these days. Personally I'm not on either side but now I understand why Yellow repeatedly chose to go hatchery and then spawning..It wasn't because he was stupid but it was because he thought there was no chance for zerg if he went pool first..For those who say go 6 pool and call Yellow a dumbass, you guys should shut up because Yellow knows best for himself..
I'm too sorry to see the faces of my teammates and coach so I came to a PC bang..
I am so sorry to my fans and can't see the faces of the people I know..I don't know what to do..
I promised myself over and over again that I would show my fans the results of my overwhelming practice, but I didn't show anything and just loose 3:0..Now my mind is just blank
As a pro I must study all the strats and builds of the other player but in order to win I had no choice but to do the strats I chose..I am so angry at myself for not finding an answer to counter the Terran's strat.
In order for Zerg to have a chance, zerg must do nat hatchery first and then go spawning..its very hard for Zerg to win by going spawning first..SO I wished plese be diagonal positions..but I am ashamed of myself for relying on luck rather than skill at the beginning of the game..
I am destined to play a lot more but today's shock will never be forgotten. Until now I have fought a lot of terrans and whenever I was in disadvantage I knew what I did wrong to make that situation. And I blamed myself for making those wrong decisions..
But today..
I am thinking that Terran has an advantage in Starcraft and their units are too good. T-T I think I have much more to practice..for being so unlucky..T-T;;..God has abandoned meT-T
Ah~I wanna cry. Being a professional and blaming the game for my losses..I feel so ashamed and am about to go crazy.
Today I wasn't Hong Jin Ho,
Today I wasn't Storm zerg
Today..
Today I was just a zerg.
Zerg...
T-T
Ahhh~~
My fan site cafe is really chaotic right now..
I wish it will come back to its original "Jin Ho cafe"
I sometimes want to be a fighter too..
Stupid Zerg!!
That's all I have to say..always be happy.
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hmmm.....guess he is really upset
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Wow, I think Yellow just won over a new fan.
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Korea (South)1740 Posts
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I'm sorry for him, but I know he will recover
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go yellow fighting!
unless its vs boxer...
go boxer fighting!!! ^_^
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Good job [BOyGiRl]ShaRp
I have an idea you can power up toss and they will kill terrans for zerg and we will have a circle toss>terran>zerg>toss
I know there are better ideas but sicne Im a toss player.. 
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soooo sad  gogogo yellow next time maybe boxer's strat is a bit bad manner no?
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I don't think its bad manner..but as both Boxer and Yellow said, its a strat that can end the game right there or at least heavily damage the Zerg..
Its a dilemma for the Zerg..gamble and come out on top or come out on bottom, or go safely and know that you will have little chance of winning
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Wow, I think Yellow just won over a new fan.
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I told you. Yellow doesn't blame BoxeR for this. It's his deal. While you guys are all bashing BoxeR and you wern't even in the game.
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Korea (South)1740 Posts
On November 12 2004 22:19 [BOyGiRl]ShaRp wrote:
As a pro I must study all the strats and builds of the other player but in order to win I had no choice but to do the strats I chose..I am so angry at myself for not finding an answer to counter the Terran's strat.
a true pro.
i <3 storm zerg~~
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Yeah Yellow doesn't blame Boxer..I think Yellow would have done the same if he was the terran and boxer was zerg
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yellow is not god, he's a man too
even yellow thinks zerg is weak against terran
this is the end
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United States33281 Posts
yellow must be on somer weird stuff to think hatch at exp first is the only viable build
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Waxangel..
I don't understand (because I'm not zerg and I'm not gosu) why Yellow thought like that but after numerous practice games wouldn't Yellow know what is best for him?
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yellow's banking on diagonal spawning positions. He took a gamble and the stupid SC start location spawning algorithm screwed him! It's just bad luck on a bad day.
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i would think yellow would know what he is talking about he is the best z in the world.
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waxangel, on pellenor, requiem, and mercury, it pretty much is auto death to pool first because those maps are imbalanced.
Well to be honest, I really haven't played them enough to know 100%. But I do know anyone who pools first vs me on mercury and pellenor while I go a regular m/m build will auto lose. Not because i'm me, but just because any very good terran will know how to abuse the zergs lack of larva / small amount of gas. Requiem i'm too inexperienced on to say but most pros say expo first. It's just that on those maps.. pool first is VERY hard to pull off and you can afford 0 mistakes if you want to win. Even if you play flawlessly, you can still be overrun. As every larva counts so very much. Also, the odds of boxer doing that build all 3 games was unlikely. Like on pellenor, that's a long fucking walk if he gets cross positions.
While we're on the subject of balance.
Z is not > P on requiem. I don't care what the stats are.
And no the only option isn't to early expo and sair / reaver with 30030 cannons at the front. --;
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Hope he finds a way to make pool before hat work and rapes KT-KTF
<3 yellow
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i guess what yellow is saying is if you do a pool before hatch build and terran goes normal build 10 rax 12 rax etc your behind and if you hatch before pool and terran goes 8 rax or whatever your dead or really behind
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some zerg gosu or someone else who knows the game mechanics and laws at "pro" level should elaborate on how nat-hatch is a MUST in TvZ. is the level of game really that close to perfection that win/defeat comes down to THIS decision??? i can hardly believe the "viable pathes" (like a chain of decision which arent considered as a mistake) to go through a TvZ are THAT narrow and limited.
is strategy all that matters? the execution of strategies is already at perfection?
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after this match
30% people will lost their interest in zerg
20% people will lost their interest in starcraft
starcraft's life will be shorten by 50%
boxer can create
boxer can destroy
why terran? why zerg?
yellow & boxer both have great minds, it's a zerg vs terran
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edit: sorry, wrong thread
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many thanks [BOyGiRl]ShaRp...
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On November 12 2004 23:11 wasted wrote:
is strategy all that matters? the execution of strategies is already at perfection?
i believe you are pretty damn close to the truth, if you mean that "execution" is microing units and "strategy" includes timing and unit choice and indirectly, macro. rarely do the pros "mess up" micro. thus the only real difference, and the only room for improvement up there at the pro level, is strategy.
btw the limitations of a one hat build, imo are mainly caused by the lack of larva, as testie says, and not really econ. although econ is really crappy, its not as bad as not having enough larva. you wouldn't even need all that econ if there isnt enough larva. a 2 hat one base build...is limited by gas the gas i think. econ makes a bit of difference, but not too much in early game. its the difficulty in securing the next expo (ie you'd have to make a lot of units to bust out of the expected containment, and then get the expo and fill it up with drones, while if you fast expo, the order is swapped and thus much much better for the exponentially increasing zerg econ system).
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I respect boxer more after this.
He perfected a BO, and used it to slow yellow's macro. Instead, yellow made the whole thing look cheesy by hatching instead of pooling every time.
After the first game, he should have been more conservative, or tried a more exotic build... BUT HE SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE THE SAME THING!!
Instead, he goes for the standard zvt build against someone who has just rushed him once, then twice, and then blames the game when he loses. Yellow is the one to blame here is starcraft suffers, not boxer.
And for those blaming the terrans now: we have had to put up with more than any race. Not only is T more micro-instensive, we can be cheesed the easiest with gay pylon tricks, gas stealing, etc.
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On November 12 2004 23:15 Elvin_vn wrote:
after this match
30% people will lost their interest in zerg
20% people will lost their interest in starcraft
starcraft's life will be shorten by 50%
boxer can create
boxer can destroy
why terran? why zerg?
yellow & boxer both have great minds, it's a zerg vs terran
I do agree "boxer can create, boxer can destroy" but he did not do it in this game. He only pushed Blizzard to come out with a new patch.
Great math btw.... it works if 0% is playing toss
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omg im so pissed at boxer.
i dont care what anyone says he should have given a better game to yellow.
he owed him atleast that much.
doing the same thing ( even if it worked) 3 times and winning.
think how bad yellow felt.
boxer knows that this is an entertainment business and should tried to entertain us better instead trying to go for the hat trick and win this time.
his quality of games just went down.
think about it boxer is known for his unique strats and great micro.
he did the SAME THING 3 times.
wtf is that ive never seen boxer do this before.
EVER.
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Time to play bigger maps than 128x128
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ok i have no fucking clue why you idiots are weeping yourselfs to sleep because of what boxer did
cmon you all know boxer is a crazy man, he will do crazy things.
this is no different from him doing a nuke rush, or that 4 rax float to kill the z
he's just smart, thinking outside of the box
now stop sucking yellows dick and get over it
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how about you get over us posting about boxer 
i admin that it was a good idea to do that bunker scv rush when i heard about it i was really excited that this worked.
but he did the same thing 3 times............
things that are unique and creative are that way because they are new and work wonders.
the fact that he did the same thing to the same person in 3 consecutive matches for the same tournament is kinda annoying :/. thats all.
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On November 12 2004 23:44 ahk-gosu wrote:
wtf is that ive never seen boxer do this before.
EVER.
that's boxer's trademark. doing stuff that noone has seen him doing before
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Boxer is not the one to blame..but I think Yellow isn't the one to blame as well..
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yes thats true but i guess these fans of the "great emperor" didnt see the originality in it after seeing it 3 consecutive times.
look at manis post.
hes practically saying dont bother with the vods. he did the same crap.
if i went to korea to watch this boxer vs yellow match and all i saw was some cheezy crap that i can watch in a pubbie game with scv rushing bm people i would not have bothered going.
we just expected more of boxer.
after all it was yellow he was facing. the games were supposed to be legendary. scv bunker rushing 3 times in a row ( although i admit yellow kinda fucked up doing expo 3 times) is pretty boring.
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On November 13 2004 00:04 ahk-gosu wrote:
yes thats true but i guess these fans of the "great emperor" didnt see the originality in it after seeing it 3 consecutive times.
the act of doing it 3 times in a row IS the originality imho
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Boxer was rushing.... yellow could have countered it with basically any other BO. However, boxer took the chance that yellow would do the standard zvt build and it worked.
You can't fast expo and then complain "waaah! I was cheesed" when your opponent counters it correctly.
If boxer had not built an ebay, would yellow be cheesing to lurker drop? Is it cheese to target turrets/comsat with dt/lurks? Is it cheese to try and break T's wall in TvP? Is it chese to zealot-bomb? No, and neither is what boxer did. It's about time zergs stop getting their free nat.
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Dominican Republic47 Posts
You guys are getting too sentimental and shit. Cut it out, jesus.
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poor yellow Boxer was great at timing/control but i do think these maps sucks. If they can't come up with better maps they should have kept the old ones.
And yeah Testie is right, pool first is just suicide on these maps esp vs someone like boxer, don't say yellow is retarded he is the best zerg in the world he knew what he was doing.
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On November 13 2004 00:22 ChApFoU wrote:poor yellow Boxer was great at timing/control but i do think these maps sucks. If they can't come up with better maps they should have kept the old ones. And yeah Testie is right, pool first is just suicide on these maps esp vs someone like boxer, don't say yellow is retarded he is the best zerg in the world he knew what he was doing.
No, he obviously didn't know or else he wouldn't have been completely demolished...
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wtf are you a moron? Someone ban this fool please. I'm sure Yellow knows what's best for him and a forum newbie such as yourself doesnt know wtf he is talking about.
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Today I wasn't Hong Jin Ho,
Today I wasn't Storm zerg
Today..
Today I was just a zerg.
Zerg...
T-T
Ahhh~~
very nice !!!!!
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He did something noone would of thought he would of done... The same thing 3 times.
Thats thinking out of the box.
gj boxer
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On November 13 2004 00:25 ProudCappi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2004 00:22 ChApFoU wrote:poor yellow Boxer was great at timing/control but i do think these maps sucks. If they can't come up with better maps they should have kept the old ones. And yeah Testie is right, pool first is just suicide on these maps esp vs someone like boxer, don't say yellow is retarded he is the best zerg in the world he knew what he was doing. No, he obviously didn't know or else he wouldn't have been completely demolished...
think of the next best current zerg player right now besides yellow..
well.. if you're thinking of the same guy I am... the guy lost 5 times against that strat in a non-broadcast setting..
in the end it boils down to boxer making a brilliant strat against 12 hatch..
and yellow being the sacrificial lamb in showing that strat to the SC community.
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On November 13 2004 00:44 1Rush wrote:
He did something noone would of thought he would of done... The same thing 3 times.
Thats thinking out of the box.
gj boxer
I think you completly misunderstood -_-;
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On November 13 2004 00:25 ProudCappi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2004 00:22 ChApFoU wrote:poor yellow Boxer was great at timing/control but i do think these maps sucks. If they can't come up with better maps they should have kept the old ones. And yeah Testie is right, pool first is just suicide on these maps esp vs someone like boxer, don't say yellow is retarded he is the best zerg in the world he knew what he was doing. No, he obviously didn't know or else he wouldn't have been completely demolished...
I'm sure in Yellow's weeks of hardcore practice he couldn't figure out what was best for him on those maps.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
man...
poor yellow
hopefully this will effect how maps are made?
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poor yellow, hope he goes back to Hong Jin Ho and Storm Zerg ^.^
thx for the post [BOyGiRl]ShaRp
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Korea (South)1740 Posts
On November 13 2004 01:00 Make7UpYours wrote:
I'm sure in Yellow's weeks of hardcore practice he couldn't figure out what was best for him on those maps.
from what i understand, yellow's preparation was more focused on his overall gameplay rather than on strats-- he apparently did alot of team melees where he would go up against 2-4 guys (1 would do micro, another would do macro, etc.). i think after this training he was confident that if he could get past the inital dangerous stage of zvt that he was in enough of a groove to be able to win on some of those admittedly unfavorable maps.
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dam i feel reeally bad for yellow he was so sad T_T
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Interesting post uhjoo.
I am thinking that Terran has an advantage in Starcraft and their units are too good. T
I find it wierd how Yellow commented on how the races are imbalanced (as seen by above). But he does comment that the balance of the game lies in the maps that the league chooses. Look at KT-KTF league, Protoss and Terran could be crying wolf and be saying that Zerg needs to be downgraded in the next update. It just pisses me off that the leagues don't put more thought into the maps and pick exciting balanced maps. Where the result will come from the player's abilities, not from the map and/or starting positions. YellOw should be blaming the league not the maps.
ie don't hate the player hate the game, type of strategy.
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T.T Hong Jin Ho Fighting !
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God has abandoned meT-T <---- i'm all for taking sc seriously and all...but WTF
bring back detonation xnote :D (love that map)
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gee, yellows sounds really depressed. I think he must have felt humiliated by boxer...
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KTF_JinHo Fighting!!!!
Go Go Yellow win KT-KTF Premier and tryto forget this - TT
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On November 12 2004 22:19 [BOyGiRl]ShaRp wrote:
This is a post that Yellow wrote on his fan site to his fans a few hours after the semis.
which site - give us link pls
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this almost made me cry ;'(
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feel sorry for him ..But to blame the game -.- hmm..that is crossing the line (will be kicked in the nuts for this) but still love yo !
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On November 13 2004 01:59 Addicted`To`Zerg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2004 22:19 [BOyGiRl]ShaRp wrote:
This is a post that Yellow wrote on his fan site to his fans a few hours after the semis.
which site - give us link pls
His Cafe-Duam page. Unless you can read Korean, a link would be useless.
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Maybe there should be a different set of maps for each matchup, considering how different the matchups are and how important map effects are.
edit: Also, SCV hit points should probably be reduced to 50, they are a bit too good at fighting right now I think.
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There's still a possibility that Zerg can come up with a good new opening now that 12 hatch expand vs terran has been "refuted" (to use chess terminology).
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hehe, boxer's rush prefect
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On November 13 2004 00:49 ssidengi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2004 00:25 ProudCappi wrote:On November 13 2004 00:22 ChApFoU wrote:poor yellow Boxer was great at timing/control but i do think these maps sucks. If they can't come up with better maps they should have kept the old ones. And yeah Testie is right, pool first is just suicide on these maps esp vs someone like boxer, don't say yellow is retarded he is the best zerg in the world he knew what he was doing. No, he obviously didn't know or else he wouldn't have been completely demolished... think of the next best current zerg player right now besides yellow.. well.. if you're thinking of the same guy I am... the guy lost 5 times against that strat in a non-broadcast setting.. in the end it boils down to boxer making a brilliant strat against 12 hatch.. and yellow being the sacrificial lamb in showing that strat to the SC community.
I was thinking the exact same thing. I feel sorry for Yellow but it seems like the maps need to change for this to not be such a big problem
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poor yellow .. i wanted boxer to win... but 3-0 in a way like this is just not what yellows skills are worth hopefully he'll keep up his anger for a week and beat the shit out of reach next friday
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I hope hes joking... i think hes not. I bet my moneys that next time Yell0w is going to cheese.
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While it is certainly sad i dont see point in blaming anythink expect yellow himself for it. Common people were always saying that terran/protts/zerg is weakest race, it can't win on certian maps, or versus. I remember times when almost everyone were saying that protoss is too weak, and there when noone has expected that reach and ra poped out. The only thing that does not change is yellow complaing on the game itself and weekness of zerg. I remember him saying that in some talk with Bill Roper years ago. It his and only his foult, he is blaiming game itself for the fact he could not win, for the fact he was cheesed 3 times in row. If the terran is reaaly that powerfull, maybe he should switched to terr, and not stick to that "usless" zerg.
He should blame his attitude towards the game for his loses, if he really thinks that his chances are lower, and he cant win despite better perfomce becouse of the imbalance of game itself then u got an answer. He already lost mental aspect of the game.
I will put it in strong words maybe too strong but i belive this true.
Yellow has loser mentality and that is his problem, nothing more.
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I think yellow is right. It's a problem with the game. THere's absolutely no reason why terran should win as much as it does. Blizz will never change it but IMO the Korean starcraft leagues should..
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I am thinking about future games. What will do yellow? He must recover. He is the best one zerg.
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Netherlands4511 Posts
I think yellow underestimates himself. I'm sure he can play pool before hatch or, 2nd hatch in-base and play to compete. These builds are viable, especially 2nd hatch in-base is a pretty decent strat and you have many options using that build. Yellow is good enough to make it work, he just needs more confidence. >_<
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On November 13 2004 04:00 GrooVe wrote:
I hope hes joking... i think hes not. I bet my moneys that next time Yell0w is going to cheese.
Zerg don't really have many cheese options. It's usually you win right there, or you lose. With early terran rushes, even if you don't manage to kill the zerg, you don't end up too far behind, because the zerg has to sacrifice drones and/or do a poor econ build in order to stop it.
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On November 13 2004 04:41 ret wrote:
I think yellow underestimates himself. I'm sure he can play pool before hatch or, 2nd hatch in-base and play to compete. These builds are viable, especially 2nd hatch in-base is a pretty decent strat and you have many options using that build. Yellow is good enough to make it work, he just needs more confidence. >_<
Boxer needs more confidence also. Then we wouldn't have as many games like this.
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This is sad.....
Yellow have depression i think.
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On November 13 2004 04:41 ret wrote:
I think yellow underestimates himself. I'm sure he can play pool before hatch or, 2nd hatch in-base and play to compete. These builds are viable, especially 2nd hatch in-base is a pretty decent strat and you have many options using that build. Yellow is good enough to make it work, he just needs more confidence. >_<
agree
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should change the poll to
Is Yellow a Pansy?
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I lost respect for yellow, his posts was so unprofessional, his way of playing was so unprofessional, and not to mention that he didnt even expect the cheese master and micro master to ever do something like that (it had to happen at some point, he has the best micro in the world, why would he not go for a micro-intensive game?).
I also think zergs should review their micro and initial builds and counters to bunker rush, considering even yellow still falls for that, and 3 times in a row. -_-
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Netherlands4511 Posts
It is infact hard to play zvt without fast exp tho.
2 rax tank push -> hard to stop right?
2 rax to dropship lift -> hard to stop if done well right?
2 rax cc mass macro terran -> hard to beat right?
2 rax 1-0 straightforward to vessel tank play -> hard to beat if terran has good micro right?
2 port wraith. etc
metal. etc
and so on.
imagine being safe vs all these strategies with pool BEFORE hatch...and not actually being behind a significant ammount...
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well.... I just hope that this doesn't over shadow the finals, because the finals I am excited about
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MaTRiX[SiN]
Sweden1282 Posts
On November 13 2004 05:45 ret wrote:
It is infact hard to play zvt without fast exp tho.
2 rax tank push -> hard to stop right?
2 rax to dropship lift -> hard to stop if done well right?
2 rax cc mass macro terran -> hard to beat right?
2 rax 1-0 straightforward to vessel tank play -> hard to beat if terran has good micro right?
2 port wraith. etc
metal. etc
and so on.
imagine being safe vs all these strategies with pool BEFORE hatch...and not actually being behind a significant ammount... didnt yellow popularise the 12 pool -> expand build? so why didnt he try that?
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BOXER HAS GOT SOME REAL COJONES
luv it
boxer for president for urinating all over yellow
art T_T
poor yellow as a person, as a gamer 'ha ha!' to him
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once again big sorry for yellow
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On November 13 2004 02:56 SickofLife wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2004 01:59 Addicted`To`Zerg wrote:On November 12 2004 22:19 [BOyGiRl]ShaRp wrote:
This is a post that Yellow wrote on his fan site to his fans a few hours after the semis.
which site - give us link pls His Cafe-Duam page. Unless you can read Korean, a link would be useless.
i use wordlingo to translate korean and chinese it is good
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He sounds really depressed >.<
Poor Yellow. I wanted boxer to win, but now I feel sorry for Yellow >.<
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Lets hope Yellow can get his revenge b4 boxer retires...
Go Go Yellow!
HONG JIN HO!!
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I CAN NOT BELIEVE THIS IS FROM YELLOW~!~
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Don't know why people are being so hard on Yellow. He just lost an important series of games in front of basically the whole Starcraft community. You would be fucking depressed if it was you in his position.
How is Yellow saying perhaps T is too strong wrong? It's his opinion. Interesting how the top 2-3 players in Korea have ALWAYS been Terran. My opinion is that the game is pretty well balanced EXCEPT for what Boxer did. Yellow was purely trying to balance his opening based on a mix of luck(Obvious by his commenting on positions) and what he thought was best. It's really too bad the maps are designed so that some positions are so close and some are so far, not great map design-_-
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Boxer should go to hell, god dammit
As I've already said in another thread, this kid just sucks.
Seriously, how many fuckin games did he win lately except for these kinds of pussy cheesy strats?
I feel really sorry for Yellow. What he posted on his cafe saddens me even more.
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On November 13 2004 08:06 red.venom wrote:
Don't know why people are being so hard on Yellow. He just lost an important series of games in front of basically the whole Starcraft community. You would be fucking depressed if it was you in his position.
How is Yellow saying perhaps T is too strong wrong? It's his opinion. Interesting how the top 2-3 players in Korea have ALWAYS been Terran. My opinion is that the game is pretty well balanced EXCEPT for what Boxer did. Yellow was purely trying to balance his opening based on a mix of luck(Obvious by his commenting on positions) and what he thought was best. It's really too bad the maps are designed so that some positions are so close and some are so far, not great map design-_-
They should try to balance out the maps more.
Ramps could have helped Yellow in preventing Boxer's bunker rush.
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That made me respect yellow even more now.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On November 13 2004 04:11 Silvanel wrote:
While it is certainly sad i dont see point in blaming anythink expect yellow himself for it. Common people were always saying that terran/protts/zerg is weakest race, it can't win on certian maps, or versus. I remember times when almost everyone were saying that protoss is too weak, and there when noone has expected that reach and ra poped out. The only thing that does not change is yellow complaing on the game itself and weekness of zerg. I remember him saying that in some talk with Bill Roper years ago. It his and only his foult, he is blaiming game itself for the fact he could not win, for the fact he was cheesed 3 times in row. If the terran is reaaly that powerfull, maybe he should switched to terr, and not stick to that "usless" zerg.
He should blame his attitude towards the game for his loses, if he really thinks that his chances are lower, and he cant win despite better perfomce becouse of the imbalance of game itself then u got an answer. He already lost mental aspect of the game.
I will put it in strong words maybe too strong but i belive this true.
Yellow has loser mentality and that is his problem, nothing more.
Uh did you miss the part of the post where he says he hates himself for blaming the game?
Meaning he knows it isn't the game.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On November 13 2004 08:06 red.venom wrote:
Don't know why people are being so hard on Yellow. He just lost an important series of games in front of basically the whole Starcraft community. You would be fucking depressed if it was you in his position.
How is Yellow saying perhaps T is too strong wrong? It's his opinion. Interesting how the top 2-3 players in Korea have ALWAYS been Terran. My opinion is that the game is pretty well balanced EXCEPT for what Boxer did. Yellow was purely trying to balance his opening based on a mix of luck(Obvious by his commenting on positions) and what he thought was best. It's really too bad the maps are designed so that some positions are so close and some are so far, not great map design-_-
Uh? Top 3 hasn't been terran until very recently o_O
Grrr-Ssamjjang-byun-hot (I wasn't around then but I think those were the top 4?) Maybe intotherain as well or was that before? I know he never did well on OGN except for his top 8 coca cola.. or top 16 or something ;o
Then Boxer-Yellow-Garimto-Themarine
Then Boxer-Yellow-Reach-Nada
Then Boxer-Nada-Nal_ra-Kingdom
Now Boxer-Nada-Oov-Reach-Yellow
Yes?
This might not be entirely accurate if you just look at the pgr21.com rankings but those are overall, not for the current time ;o
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On November 13 2004 08:06 red.venom wrote:
Don't know why people are being so hard on Yellow. He just lost an important series of games in front of basically the whole Starcraft community. You would be fucking depressed if it was you in his position.
How is Yellow saying perhaps T is too strong wrong? It's his opinion. Interesting how the top 2-3 players in Korea have ALWAYS been Terran. My opinion is that the game is pretty well balanced EXCEPT for what Boxer did. Yellow was purely trying to balance his opening based on a mix of luck(Obvious by his commenting on positions) and what he thought was best. It's really too bad the maps are designed so that some positions are so close and some are so far, not great map design-_-
in the first years the top players were not T... until terrans learned to play well and stop the most common threats
my guess is zerg and protoss should adapt just as terran did once
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On November 12 2004 22:19 [BOyGiRl]ShaRp wrote:
Ah~I wanna cry. Being a professional and blaming the game for my losses..I feel so ashamed and am about to go crazy.
For people who are bashing Yellow for being unprofessional for blaming the game or screaming imbalance, I think Yellow himself realizes the unprofessional nature of what he's saying. No one likes to think that their hours of practice has been for nothing (especially the way it was in the semis), and the natural response due to frustration and shame would be to think that the game must be imbalanced. When Yellow gets over the initial shock, anger, and depression he'll find a way to counter the strat.
People keep saying that Terran dominates every league all the time (or the greater majority at least), but there hasn't been a Terran in the OSL final since Olympus 2003. The last ITV league was won by a zerg, and although the MSL has had all Terran champions but one, we also have to consider that two players have won 6 out of 8 MSL/KPGA leagues (Nada and Oov).
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Read the thread before you post plz-_-
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u guys think boxer's cheesy rush is a guranteed win. IDIOTS! no fucking cheesy rush in bw gurantees a win. If u can pull off such a win, u DESERVED the win. boxer did it. give him the credit. If the best zerg in the world can not defend the first wave of rush from boxer, how the fuck do u expect some ggs? perhaps boxer should have had pulled back and give yellow a chance to recover or something cuz some kiddies on tl.net will be upset if yellow die too soon.
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On November 13 2004 08:48 [BOyGiRl]ShaRp wrote:
Read the thread before you post plz-_-
It wasn't a direct response to what you posted ;;. I did read the whole thread and my post was directed to people who were either bashing Yellow for being "unprofessional" and blaming the game, and people who were agreeing with Yellow's statement on Terran imbalance (which I think was just a product of Yellow being angry and ashamed, not his true feelings) and cited Terran's "constant" dominance in leagues.
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On November 13 2004 08:19 Mr. Mystery wrote:
Boxer should go to hell, god dammit
As I've already said in another thread, this kid just sucks.
Seriously, how many fuckin games did he win lately except for these kinds of pussy cheesy strats?
I feel really sorry for Yellow. What he posted on his cafe saddens me even more.
i think u should go to hell.
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On November 13 2004 08:52 ky[Z] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2004 08:19 Mr. Mystery wrote:
Boxer should go to hell, god dammit
As I've already said in another thread, this kid just sucks.
Seriously, how many fuckin games did he win lately except for these kinds of pussy cheesy strats?
I feel really sorry for Yellow. What he posted on his cafe saddens me even more. i think u should go to hell.
I was about to answer to that troll, but you summed up my thoughts pretty well.
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On November 13 2004 08:19 Mr. Mystery wrote:
Boxer should go to hell, god dammit
As I've already said in another thread, this kid just sucks.
Seriously, how many fuckin games did he win lately except for these kinds of pussy cheesy strats?
I feel really sorry for Yellow. What he posted on his cafe saddens me even more.
Wow, you're fucking pathetic. If boxer should go to hell for being extremely good at a video game, where should you go for even thinking such things?
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Ok, I can see both sides kind of. But honhestly I side with yellow more, he's not going off on boxer or saying anything bad about his strat. But he can't blame the game on the race imbalance, although.... This is not the first time he's said it! Its not like yellow is going off with any excuse he can find... I think yellow truly believes that terran is imbalanced, but acts professional about it until something like this happens, and he is in a state of depression (we still love you bud)
Anyway, also, a lot of you terran players are speaking without knowing what you're talking about. You can't say yellow is playing too safe by going 12 hatch... In this level of play 12 hatch does not give an advantage, it merely levels the playing field. But, as we saw, it leaves zerg vulnerable to this kind of rush. Yellow didn't really do anything wrong, its just that both boxer and yellow play to control the game, and boxer seems to always take control before yellow gets a chance. Really, a sad series, but oh well, gj to boxer, but you should be able to see yellow's pov as well.
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yellow was very good mannered for not flaming boxer, but i wonder if boxer lost any respect by his fans over this very anti-climatic series, that was hyped up a lot
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He didn't lose any respect from me. I see nothing wrong with playing a game where the sole object is winning, to win. But hey, maybe that's just me.
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Too bad there is some "luck" in these games because of the starting positions. i think professional leagues should remove the luck factor and make only 2player maps like bifrost.
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On November 13 2004 08:51 Make7UpYours wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2004 08:48 [BOyGiRl]ShaRp wrote:
Read the thread before you post plz-_- It wasn't a direct response to what you posted ;;. I did read the whole thread and my post was directed to people who were either bashing Yellow for being "unprofessional" and blaming the game, and people who were agreeing with Yellow's statement on Terran imbalance (which I think was just a product of Yellow being angry and ashamed, not his true feelings) and cited Terran's "constant" dominance in leagues.
I wasn't talking to you either I was referring to the people who were calling Yellow unprofessional
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Yellow has claimed imbalance for years, and this time, it's pretty easy to see it.
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On November 12 2004 22:47 Waxangel wrote:
yellow must be on somer weird stuff to think hatch at exp first is the only viable build
obviously you know more than yellow on the subject...
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edit: this was a pointless post
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He's just upset that he lost, and isn't thinking clearly. In a few days he'll find some brilliant way to counter this and we'll all be laughing about it. So just chill~
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Korea (South)1740 Posts
On November 13 2004 09:25 sm wrote:yellow was very good mannered for not flaming boxer, but i wonder if boxer lost any respect by his fans over this very anti-climatic series, that was hyped up a lot
he is getting ALOT of flak by korean fans. probably more than on here. :O
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Yea..TL net seems to be
Its ok >> Its not ok but in Korea its
non Boxer fans "Retire and go to the army you fag" >>> Boxer fans "Boxer rules"
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On November 13 2004 10:16 [BOyGiRl]ShaRp wrote:
Yea..TL net seems to be
Its ok >> Its not ok
but in Korea its
non Boxer fans "Retire and go to the army you fag" >>> Boxer fans "Boxer rules"
somewhere in vietnam
 moo? >>>>> moo!
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I see no point in whining. Maybe it's because he has boxer_complex, and hasn't yet got rid of it. My advice would be to practice, practice, practice... and then practice some more.
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is it just me, or does yellow's mineral patches look so far from his hat in game 1...most of them are like 1 space farther
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Well, Boxer is still amazing and the fact he shut out Yellow 3-0 is amazing.
Yellow is amazing. We all know that as well and it's not like he played BAD... it's just Boxer reached a new level with this. So think of it as the same old Yellow just not being able to take on a Boxer with an upgraded build. -_-;; And quit bitching.
We all know Yellow is destined to win a OGN sometime before he retires... come on, he's the greatest Z ever.
EDIT - Plus he is getting third this OGN. I don't see Reach beating Yellow again in a top 3/4 position.
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If game lasts less than 5 minutes it is losers fault.
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On November 13 2004 10:16 [BOyGiRl]ShaRp wrote:
Yea..TL net seems to be
Its ok >> Its not ok but in Korea its
non Boxer fans "Retire and go to the army you fag" >>> Boxer fans "Boxer rules"
Really? that sad.
But dont worry an average fan will forget about this if Boxer vs oov is going to be spectacular.
and BTW an average TL.net knows about sc more than an average Korean "fan." An average Korean fan I would argue that is a newb. Look at how they behave during games. They get excited on things that are less important and esier to pull out then something only a better SCer is able to understand the beauty of it. I dont want to say all korean fans are newb, but I bet in the community of ppl who know more about starcraft "Its ok >> Its not ok"+ nice strategy Boxer. Havent said that mojority of ppl who said "Retire and go to the army you fag" will forever regret what they said if Boxer is really gonna to retired.
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Iraq1230 Posts
i feel really sorry for jin ho right now and at the same time really angry at lim. but just as yellow stated it was his own fault relaying too much on luck.
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I agree average TL net fan knows more than average Korean fan..but you must consider that of the non Boxer fans who criticize Boxer, there are much more people who know much more than average TL net fan..these people are people who memorize stats/rankings/games and stuff. So its wrong to say people who criticize Boxer fans are newbs..
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What I'm scared will happen is Starcraft loosing popularity because of this. How bad was this for the game?
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I doubt SC will loose fans because of this..but I'm sure Boxer will loose fans because of this
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stop complaining about imbalance plz T_T
that thing is that boxer rushed and yellow was not prepared to hold a rush
it would be the same thing if a toss started with a gate/core without making zea, and then boxer arrived there with 6 scvs e 2 rines, he would kill lots of probes, maybe not win the game, but would hurt the toss so much that the game would be won
the imbalance is in the maps, not in the races
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I did not say all "people who criticize Boxer fans are newbs", but the majority IS. I wonder what is the progamers opinion on the issue.I doubt if there would even be 1:5 ppl who critisize boxer. And boxer loosing fans? Yeah probably but for how long? a week ,a month or to the next boxer big game (which might be in 2 weeks).
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As we speak, zergs are finding a perfect counter to this strat. People are just in shock that a very popular zerg build has just been nullified. How about building the hatch at your choke? How about 12 pooling? How about not doing the same thing a after it has just lost twice? Wah wah wah, terran finally has a respectable early rush. Before walling, terran was completely in the shits against toss, now zerg needs to find something similar.
Also, we seem to be forgetting that boxer always owns yellow. This might have had a factor in this game (by the way, boxer said in his practice rounds he told the zerg what strategy to use... so they weren't actually playing).
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Ok let me make some comments about what yellow said after the gema. I lost some respect in my eyes (although, Im still consider him my 3rd favorite player ever). He had a chance to become the true hero for the starcraft community. I believe if instead of what he sais, he would just congrats boxer for a good game, great strategy, and looking foward for the next clash he would be in win/win situation. What he did was like what an "average" progamer would do, blame the game (a newb would blame the opponent), but I expected more from Yellow. He's one of the progamer heor for me not just a programer.
Now I rise a very controvertial issue hopping that at least some of you will understand mine point of view better.
Just as Yellow could emerge after this game as a "winner" in some aspect, there was a person who also could emerge as a winner on the Iraq war. Not Bush, not Saddam, but Pop.
I'm I crazy?
well, if pop would go to Iraq as a human shield, as some ppl recommended to him if his a true peacekeeper, He would be in win/win situation. If Bush would still attack and pop got killed, Pop would became a saint. Otherwise, he would win a nobel prise and save thousands of ppl.
So was he and Yellow a coward. No! I probably would not be strong enough do that either. They did a way better job than an average perso would do. Pop critisized the war and yellow did not blame boxer, but somehow I fell little disapointed since I expected more form both of them.
They are still great though, but they could have done bettter job.
I apology if I ofended anyone.
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Frozen Arbiter i have not missed that part. But what it have to do with that? He said it is foult of the game, he hates himeslef for saying/thinking that? Then why he said that? Is he thinkg it is true or not? I would not like to geuss what somebody means by saying somethink when it isn't totaly clear.
Possible scenerio:
1)It is foult of the game
2)I hate myslef for what i just said.
What it is going to mean?
a)I dont realy mean that...
b)I mean that but i should not said that...
c)somethink elese
In case a) which propably u are saying is the propper understaing of what he said, why he bodder to say things he does not mean, why saying something you disaggree. Why saying somethink and in the next sentence disagree with it???
He is clealry blaming game and he is doing it for years, the fact that he knows it is wrong (another possible meaning) does not change anything. If he knows he is wrong he should not do that, if he is still doing thinks he knows are wrong that is a trully thing to be ashmed of.
In the end.
I thing the whole story is very sad, looking from yellows said, but i will say it again. IT IS NOT BILL ROPERS FOULT THAT YELLOW LOST 3-0.
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Even when i watched the vods i got a growing feeling of hate at boxer(he was never my fav pro anyways) i guess no one can really blame him since his only strat had nothing bad in it except for us poor guys watching the vods.
But i really feel sorry for yellow, and since he is proly the greatest zerg of all times he might have a hint on what he said about terrans. I really dont know and i guess few do that r at that level. BUt yes he is right about maps inbalance.
However, I really hope he comes out soon with a proper counter for this, and i wish him to rape the next ogn(beating boxer in the way), over my fav pro's. He really deserves it.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
Silvanel STFU and get off Yellow's back about being unprofessional.
None of you know what it feels like to constantly lose for 4 years in a row. Since following starcraft, I have seen him lose 6 important series and they were all heart breakers. I can only imagine how much more heartbreaking it was for him. We all have our oppinions on whose fault it is for these garbage games, but dont start attacking the players for being unprofessional.
Until you constantly lose the most important games of your lives for 4 consistent years, then you can point out your oppinion about him being unprofessional or why he said this or that. Until then, STFU.
Understand that he is saying this out of frustration. He's been playing this game professionally more than most of you have been playing. If anyone deserves to bitch about imbalances, its the progamers.
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16968 Posts
Don't worry Yellow, I still love you  Maybe Zerg will find a new strategy to counter this? Like erm... 9 POOL? I don't know, just a thought =/
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On November 13 2004 12:40 Tien wrote:
Silvanel STFU and get off Yellow's back about being unprofessional.
None of you know what it feels like to constantly lose for 4 years in a row. Since following starcraft, I have seen him lose 6 important series and they were all heart breakers. I can only imagine how much more heartbreaking it was for him. We all have our oppinions on whose fault it is for these garbage games, but dont start attacking the players for being unprofessional.
Until you constantly lose the most important games of your lives for 4 consistent years, then you can point out your oppinion about him being unprofessional or why he said this or that. Until then, STFU.
Understand that he is saying this out of frustration. He's been playing this game professionally more than most of you have been playing. If anyone deserves to bitch about imbalances, its the progamers.
Agreed with this post but didnt you say something about Boxer being unprofessional?
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
nope, I do not criticize boxer for being unprofessional. He did what he did to win. Doesnt mean I have to enjoy the way he played the games.
EDIT: An example is that some business men are professional. They do what they have to do to make money. But I dont have to agree with how they are making money.
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It got to be map-dependent. Julyzerg won his OSL championship with pool first in most games, right?
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On November 13 2004 13:11 OhThatDang wrote:
like george bush?
hehe
I think he did a pretty good job winning the election with that kind of record. Or should I say Kerry suxed? ...analogy Yellow suxed in these serie.
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About balance of races:
In my hubble opinion, I think that terrans are most difficult but if you can master your T-skills you are best player(u know because of difficult micro¯o managment; its not easy to lay mines,siege tanks and build some units in same time). But how many ppl on planet mastered in this T-skill?
Maybe there is boxer? But why he has problems with others? Why he don't win always => no one is master of t-skills so it is balanced !
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On November 13 2004 04:11 Silvanel wrote:
While it is certainly sad i dont see point in blaming anythink expect yellow himself for it. Common people were always saying that terran/protts/zerg is weakest race, it can't win on certian maps, or versus. I remember times when almost everyone were saying that protoss is too weak, and there when noone has expected that reach and ra poped out. The only thing that does not change is yellow complaing on the game itself and weekness of zerg. I remember him saying that in some talk with Bill Roper years ago. It his and only his foult, he is blaiming game itself for the fact he could not win, for the fact he was cheesed 3 times in row. If the terran is reaaly that powerfull, maybe he should switched to terr, and not stick to that "usless" zerg.
He should blame his attitude towards the game for his loses, if he really thinks that his chances are lower, and he cant win despite better perfomce becouse of the imbalance of game itself then u got an answer. He already lost mental aspect of the game.
I will put it in strong words maybe too strong but i belive this true.
Yellow has loser mentality and that is his problem, nothing more.
He didnt blame the game numb nuts. He said it himself he wasnt "Yellow" just an ordinary "zerg" that day.
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CRAAAAAAWLING IN MY SKIN/9.4
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in the end its sooooo awesome which upset boxer can cause with 3 little games
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After reading the interview Im kinda speechless...
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Tien, it's off topic I know, but if I don't correct you now I fear that this might affect your scores in University.
Opinion has only 1 p. At first I thought it was a typo, but it seems that you spell opinion always with 2 'P's.
Cheers and Thanks.
d'__'P
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Beast did Madfrog really say that? :D
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
On November 13 2004 14:24 gg_hertzz wrote:
Tien, it's off topic I know, but if I don't correct you now I fear that this might affect your scores in University.
Opinion has only 1 p. At first I thought it was a typo, but it seems that you spell opinion always with 2 'P's.
Cheers and Thanks.
d'__'P
Spell check owns.
BTW, its too late to help my grades TT.
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On November 13 2004 14:25 Slaughter)BiO wrote:
Beast did Madfrog really say that? :D
Yup.
:D
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That is so freaking awesome ^_^
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Sweden33719 Posts
On November 13 2004 12:32 Silvanel wrote:
Frozen Arbiter i have not missed that part. But what it have to do with that? He said it is foult of the game, he hates himeslef for saying/thinking that? Then why he said that? Is he thinkg it is true or not? I would not like to geuss what somebody means by saying somethink when it isn't totaly clear.
Possible scenerio:
1)It is foult of the game
2)I hate myslef for what i just said.
What it is going to mean?
a)I dont realy mean that...
b)I mean that but i should not said that...
c)somethink elese
In case a) which propably u are saying is the propper understaing of what he said, why he bodder to say things he does not mean, why saying something you disaggree. Why saying somethink and in the next sentence disagree with it???
He is clealry blaming game and he is doing it for years, the fact that he knows it is wrong (another possible meaning) does not change anything. If he knows he is wrong he should not do that, if he is still doing thinks he knows are wrong that is a trully thing to be ashmed of.
In the end.
I thing the whole story is very sad, looking from yellows said, but i will say it again. IT IS NOT BILL ROPERS FOULT THAT YELLOW LOST 3-0.
Uh because that's how he feels. But he really knows that's not how it is.
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lost respect for boxer =[
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A true warrior and progamer, yellow is.
He is ashamed with himself because HE lost, not at Boxer.
I hope he wins Kt-ktf!!
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Boxer + Yellow = $$$ = match fixing = ban.
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On November 13 2004 15:30 LetMeBeWithYou wrote:
lost respect for boxer =[
How come? He didn't do anything wrong? He just beat Yellow like he always does (well most of the time).
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you low post newbies should shut up. a moderator should target this thread for stupidity. honestly, you had recognised players telling you (testie and ret) that these maps are bad zvt, because if you 9pool you will be behind, and if you fast expo you run the risk of being rushed, but at least you will stand a chance after a couple of minutes in the game.
if you cant read what yellow said, he said he was not himself, he was upset, he was blaming the balance of the game ON THOSE MAPS. He did not blame boxer, or say that he would forever hate the game and go off in a huff.
Also, something noone has pointed out yet is that this is NOT his message to the starcraft community. This is his HOMEPAGE, his personal space where he can put down in words just how upset he is with himself, and his inability to beat boxers rush. It is not your prerogative to pick apart his PRIVATE words to himself and his close fans and interpret them as a whine against the world, because i can tell you now, if you lost YET ANOTHER chance at a korean league title, and a hefty cash prize you little whiners would be condemning everything that ever was done to you. Fuck i bet you would accuse your uncle of molesting you and it had a permanent effect on you. POOR YELLOW, the poor guy got the most humiliating loss i have ever seen, and because of assholes like you he cant even have a personal little cry on a PRIVATE webpage.
Its really big of you to kick him while he's down.
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SpuN - you always have the most hateful posts. :D
But now the maps are going to favour Zerg, so Toss is going to get spanked around like no other. Poor Reach, Ra, and TeratO.
Rofl... what # meet-up is this for YellOw and BoxeR? And YellOw loses, again? Bah.. poor guy. No wonder he's so down. I predict massive slump. :O
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On November 13 2004 17:28 worst.player wrote:
And YellOw loses, again? Bah.. poor guy. No wonder he's so down. I predict massive slump. :O
 nah i predict yellow will become VENGEFUL ZERG and go around kicking ass in KT-KTF Premier league, undeafeated for the rest of his matches and severely humiliating all that try to oppose him 
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On November 13 2004 17:12 ieatkids5 wrote:How come? He didn't do anything wrong? He just beat Yellow like he always does (well most of the time).
because the style that happened it was a very entertaining long match... thats all =o
im not saying its cheese, either just wasnt too much fun watching it
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ITS OK YELLOW IM HERE FOR U x)
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On November 13 2004 17:46 Locked wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2004 17:28 worst.player wrote:
And YellOw loses, again? Bah.. poor guy. No wonder he's so down. I predict massive slump. :O nah i predict yellow will become VENGEFUL ZERG and go around kicking ass in KT-KTF Premier league, undeafeated for the rest of his matches and severely humiliating all that try to oppose him
But all Terrans need to do is 8rax to win. Whats up now??
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On November 13 2004 17:28 worst.player wrote:
SpuN - you always have the most hateful posts. :D
yeh maybe i do. but i get seriously angry when people beat on yellow for giving his progaming career becoming an icon for zerg, and then having himself beaten like a ragdoll by dickheads who think his problems would be solved with a simple 9pool. stop pubbing, play those maps with a decent player and watch yourself get beaten like a red-headed stepchild.
edit: btw, i just shaved my head yesterday, im gettin beat on by everyone i know for looking like a mental patient so be ready for more aggression
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On November 12 2004 22:56 Degussa wrote:
yellow's banking on diagonal spawning positions. He took a gamble and the stupid SC start location spawning algorithm screwed him! It's just bad luck on a bad day.
a good professional (in regards of any profession!) will not be happy to rely on luck for victory!
On November 13 2004 01:34 Sharkey wrote:
Interesting post uhjoo.
I am thinking that Terran has an advantage in Starcraft and their units are too good. T
I find it wierd how Yellow commented on how the races are imbalanced (as seen by above). But he does comment that the balance of the game lies in the maps that the league chooses. Look at KT-KTF league, Protoss and Terran could be crying wolf and be saying that Zerg needs to be downgraded in the next update. It just pisses me off that the leagues don't put more thought into the maps and pick exciting balanced maps. Where the result will come from the player's abilities, not from the map and/or starting positions. YellOw should be blaming the league not the maps.
ie don't hate the player hate the game, type of strategy.
honestly, everyone do know maps do matter. unfortunately, how much do they know? do they actually do have professional map makers who do take considerations of map balancing from the players pretty well?
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no, they have competitions that award maps that have the most cool trick/stunt points for a terran to abuse. look at tucson!!
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blessing
yellow ,cheer up!
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On November 13 2004 18:25 worst.player wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2004 17:46 Locked wrote:On November 13 2004 17:28 worst.player wrote:
And YellOw loses, again? Bah.. poor guy. No wonder he's so down. I predict massive slump. :O nah i predict yellow will become VENGEFUL ZERG and go around kicking ass in KT-KTF Premier league, undeafeated for the rest of his matches and severely humiliating all that try to oppose him But all Terrans need to do is 8rax to win. Whats up now??
lol...why do some of u guys get the impression that 8rax or cheese rush gurantees a win?
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I feel bad for yellow.. He deserves to finally win something.
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There is no such thing as a private webpage. He put it on the internet and not his diary for a reason...
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On November 13 2004 21:35 ProudCappi wrote:
There is no such thing as a private webpage. He put it on the internet and not his diary for a reason...
surely you see the difference between a site on his homepage and an interview after the game where he makes the sign T_T and cries that he isnt storm zerg cuz its a desert on pellenor, and it never rains?
see, the second one is a message meant to go to the korean starcraft community, which would be non-professional, the first is a personal outpouring in his personal space, to share how he feels (sad and angry at himself) with his closest fans. pour guy, he didnt want to go back to his dorms and face his team/coach, so he goes to pc bang, and everyone knows him, he didnt have any space/time to reflect on the match. That match meant 1. his dreams (a title, and not standing there as runner up!) and 2. validation of his skills. even mediocre, flash in the pants players like julyzerg got themselves a title, yellow has dominated the proscene for years and got next to nothing for his efforts. The fact that he's still getting 2nd and 3rd and still called the best z player in the world is already a massive feat.
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not a lot of man can do like Boxer do!
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that was good of yellow to say....he is now my hero...but i still hate zerg;\......did he really say all that?
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aha. I dont know if anyone has noticed, but July showed not that long time ago that all T can be beaten. Did Oov (many would argue the best terran) say some crap about ZvT imbalance after loosing 6 games (or something like that) on the row?
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On November 13 2004 21:12 FreeMarine wrote:
I feel bad for yellow.. He deserves to finally win something.
Yeah, he will in KTF-KT since Boxer is practicaly out.
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On November 14 2004 00:10 Geval wrote:
aha. I dont know if anyone has noticed, but July showed not that long time ago that all T can be beaten. Did Oov (many would argue the best terran) say some crap about ZvT imbalance after loosing 6 games (or something like that) on the row?
that was very very different this wasn't 6 games in a row a oov tried some risky strategies + the maps weren't imbalanced in favor of july, he just pwned oov's macro, fast multi style.
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I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
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On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
You heard it straight from canada's finest, blizzard! This post has my 100% approval
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theyll have to introduce a new rule, no rush 5min!
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On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
shut the fuck up, yellow losing to a bunker rush doesnt make the game imbalanced.
Seriously all you idiots talking about balance on tl.net pretending like you know what you are talking about get irritating. How about you stop sucking at bw and get better.
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On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
No, no, and no.
The second two are absolutely wrong, and would throw off mid and late game zvt. The first one would make bunker rushing impossible, but would make it harder for scvs to survive in a slow push. Before we want to change the game, lets make sure there is no counter to bunker rushing...
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On November 14 2004 10:14 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
shut the fuck up, yellow losing to a bunker rush doesnt make the game imbalanced. Seriously all you idiots talking about balance on tl.net pretending like you know what you are talking about get irritating. How about you stop sucking at bw and get better.
First of all you plz SHUT THE FUCK UP I posted what I think of this matchup as it is for now. You may not agree but there is a more polite way to express it.
I never said that yellow losing 3-0 is making zvt unbalanced I said that I always thought zvt was unbalanced and I submitted some changes that (I think) would be accurate.
and finally I didnt pretend that I knew for sure what I was talking about, I said (I think). This is an opinion.
And yeah I almost forgot... If you could read BETTER instead of posting utter crap posts, this forum should be even better. Because for now the only person who looks idiot(that is the word you employed?) here is you.
thx^^
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On November 14 2004 10:16 ProudCappi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
No, no, and no. The second two are absolutely wrong, and would throw off mid and late game zvt. The first one would make bunker rushing impossible, but would make it harder for scvs to survive in a slow push. Before we want to change the game, lets make sure there is no counter to bunker rushing...
For the second one I dont know exactly where we sould put the cost of heal. I mean.... I said 2 but maybe it should be between like 1.5 and 2 because I agree that 2 means the double of mana required to heal the same amount of units. But what I know fo sure is that 1 is not enough. How many time the following situation happened?
-OMG my medics have 0 mana I cant recover my marines Im dying noooooo....
I think that except if you had a ratio of 1medic:40marines this thing hasen't occured in the starcraft history.
For the 3rd. CURRENTLY, 1 science vessel can kill 3 lurkers or 3 guards if is it has 250 mana.
Considering you researched only irradite and you dont mind researching mana upg You can kill 2 of those poor lurks and a third one 25 sec later (if your science vessel is 200/200 mana)
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This is so sad. I hope TvZ is still somehow balanced and gosu Z players find away around boxer's strat. Or it will effect the whole SC Community.
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Some changes
SCV HP is still 60 but increase its cool down to 22 so that all three scv, drones and probe have the same cool down
medic heal slower if the unit which the medic heals is moving
Irradiate remains the same but doesn't have stack effect
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On November 14 2004 02:51 ChApFoU wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 00:10 Geval wrote:
aha. I dont know if anyone has noticed, but July showed not that long time ago that all T can be beaten. Did Oov (many would argue the best terran) say some crap about ZvT imbalance after loosing 6 games (or something like that) on the row? that was very very different this wasn't 6 games in a row a oov tried some risky strategies + the maps weren't imbalanced in favor of july, he just pwned oov's macro, fast multi style.
Didnt oov also lose 3-0 or 4-1 on GhemTV?
Any way Oonv DID NOT PLAY RISKY IN ALL OF THESE GAMES.
map more Z favor. hmmm ok so why did youllow blame the imbalance not maps?
And BTW in Boxer vs Yellow serie maps did not seems to be that important
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I didn't read the whole thread, not enough time, so if what i say has already be said don't hate.
ZERG NEEDS DEFILERS. DARKSWARM IS HARD TO BEAT. just live long enough to get it, Zergplayers re think your game, lets see some next level strategy.
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MURICA15980 Posts
You try surviving long enough to get defilers versus boxer with only one gas....
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On November 14 2004 12:31 Klogon wrote:
You try surviving long enough to get defilers versus boxer with only one gas....
hmmm thats like saying try to outmacro Oov
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lol and if by luck you succeed you will probably lose your defiler(or your 3) to 75 mana of our beloved science vessel
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On November 14 2004 10:36 Bladox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 10:16 ProudCappi wrote:On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
No, no, and no. The second two are absolutely wrong, and would throw off mid and late game zvt. The first one would make bunker rushing impossible, but would make it harder for scvs to survive in a slow push. Before we want to change the game, lets make sure there is no counter to bunker rushing... For the second one I dont know exactly where we sould put the cost of heal. I mean.... I said 2 but maybe it should be between like 1.5 and 2 because I agree that 2 means the double of mana required to heal the same amount of units. But what I know fo sure is that 1 is not enough. How many time the following situation happened? -OMG my medics have 0 mana I cant recover my marines Im dying noooooo.... I think that except if you had a ratio of 1medic:40marines this thing hasen't occured in the starcraft history. For the 3rd. CURRENTLY, 1 science vessel can kill 3 lurkers or 3 guards if is it has 250 mana. Considering you researched only irradite and you dont mind researching mana upg You can kill 2 of those poor lurks and a third one 25 sec later (if your science vessel is 200/200 mana)
I have had medics run dry several times, and I have seen it happen several times. This happens when you stim, then stand still and let the medics heal before you go into battle. It lets your marines last a lot longer (they attack with full health), but your medics really get drained. With vessels, it is hard enough keeping them alive as it is, and I've never seen one at 250 energy. Post a replay, please. Plus, once zerg gets swarm, you absolutely need to use iradiate. Mid and late game zvt is not imbalanced, get over yellow losing early game.
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STFU balance talkers. -_-;
Seriously all the stuff you bitch about is something a lil proper control and prevent or cut down damage from ridiculously. There's no need to bitch cuz Yellow got beat in 20 minutes in a bo5.
Just compliment boxer for showing such dominance over Yellow which hasnt been shown over another gamer since Chojja vs Nada and Yellow vs Oov... -_-;;
Although it's funny how the 3 shortest top ranking series's are all TvZ but it's the nature of the MU. It's fast and hard
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On November 14 2004 12:53 ProudCappi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 10:36 Bladox wrote:On November 14 2004 10:16 ProudCappi wrote:On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
No, no, and no. The second two are absolutely wrong, and would throw off mid and late game zvt. The first one would make bunker rushing impossible, but would make it harder for scvs to survive in a slow push. Before we want to change the game, lets make sure there is no counter to bunker rushing... For the second one I dont know exactly where we sould put the cost of heal. I mean.... I said 2 but maybe it should be between like 1.5 and 2 because I agree that 2 means the double of mana required to heal the same amount of units. But what I know fo sure is that 1 is not enough. How many time the following situation happened? -OMG my medics have 0 mana I cant recover my marines Im dying noooooo.... I think that except if you had a ratio of 1medic:40marines this thing hasen't occured in the starcraft history. For the 3rd. CURRENTLY, 1 science vessel can kill 3 lurkers or 3 guards if is it has 250 mana. Considering you researched only irradite and you dont mind researching mana upg You can kill 2 of those poor lurks and a third one 25 sec later (if your science vessel is 200/200 mana) I have had medics run dry several times, and I have seen it happen several times. This happens when you stim, then stand still and let the medics heal before you go into battle. It lets your marines last a lot longer (they attack with full health), but your medics really get drained. With vessels, it is hard enough keeping them alive as it is, and I've never seen one at 250 energy. Post a replay, please. Plus, once zerg gets swarm, you absolutely need to use iradiate. Mid and late game zvt is not imbalanced, get over yellow losing early game.
OK listen man.
1 medic at 200/200 mana can heal 20 marines who just stimmed themselves(20x10=200). This is without considering the mana regenaration. So if you have 2 medics you now have a capacity of 40 marines and 3 ->60 etc... but 1 medic per group of 20 marines is stupidly not enough as your marines will get hurted during the battle and the medic wont have the time to reach each of your marines. So actually terran players will go with a minimum of 5-6 medics for a early-mid-game army constitued of about 20-30 marines/firebat. 5 medics all together can recover 1000 hp and considering you'll not stim 3 times in a row in the same battle this is way more mana that you really need. So I barely understands how you manage to get your medics run dry SEVERAL time.
This is even more strange because 5 medics is very few so most of the time youll get more of them and you'll have medics spreaded across your infantry troops.
For irradiate ... YES you need them when you see defilers im not arguing about that because this is not the point at all. Even if we put irradiate at 100 you'll be able to irradiate those defilers without problems...
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On November 13 2004 09:29 1024MB wrote:
He didn't lose any respect from me. I see nothing wrong with playing a game where the sole object is winning, to win. But hey, maybe that's just me.
all for win?
well then, i guess you would not hesitate hacking.
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On November 14 2004 15:10 Bladox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 12:53 ProudCappi wrote:On November 14 2004 10:36 Bladox wrote:On November 14 2004 10:16 ProudCappi wrote:On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
No, no, and no. The second two are absolutely wrong, and would throw off mid and late game zvt. The first one would make bunker rushing impossible, but would make it harder for scvs to survive in a slow push. Before we want to change the game, lets make sure there is no counter to bunker rushing... For the second one I dont know exactly where we sould put the cost of heal. I mean.... I said 2 but maybe it should be between like 1.5 and 2 because I agree that 2 means the double of mana required to heal the same amount of units. But what I know fo sure is that 1 is not enough. How many time the following situation happened? -OMG my medics have 0 mana I cant recover my marines Im dying noooooo.... I think that except if you had a ratio of 1medic:40marines this thing hasen't occured in the starcraft history. For the 3rd. CURRENTLY, 1 science vessel can kill 3 lurkers or 3 guards if is it has 250 mana. Considering you researched only irradite and you dont mind researching mana upg You can kill 2 of those poor lurks and a third one 25 sec later (if your science vessel is 200/200 mana) I have had medics run dry several times, and I have seen it happen several times. This happens when you stim, then stand still and let the medics heal before you go into battle. It lets your marines last a lot longer (they attack with full health), but your medics really get drained. With vessels, it is hard enough keeping them alive as it is, and I've never seen one at 250 energy. Post a replay, please. Plus, once zerg gets swarm, you absolutely need to use iradiate. Mid and late game zvt is not imbalanced, get over yellow losing early game. OK listen man. 1 medic at 200/200 mana can heal 20 marines who just stimmed themselves(20x10=200). This is without considering the mana regenaration. So if you have 2 medics you now have a capacity of 40 marines and 3 ->60 etc... but 1 medic per group of 20 marines is stupidly not enough as your marines will get hurted during the battle and the medic wont have the time to reach each of your marines. So actually terran players will go with a minimum of 5-6 medics for a early-mid-game army constitued of about 20-30 marines/firebat. 5 medics all together can recover 1000 hp and considering you'll not stim 3 times in a row in the same battle this is way more mana that you really need. So I barely understands how you manage to get your medics run dry SEVERAL time. This is even more strange because 5 medics is very few so most of the time youll get more of them and you'll have medics spreaded across your infantry troops. For irradiate ... YES you need them when you see defilers im not arguing about that because this is not the point at all. Even if we put irradiate at 100 you'll be able to irradiate those defilers without problems...
Medics never reach 200 energy. they start with 50, and don't just sit around until they are full.
However, of course they usually don't run out of energy, my point was in situations where you have 1 medic for 12-16 marines (which happens when some of your medics die off, or you macro badly (ie: me), they do run out.
However, I don't know of anyone else who thinks that mid-late game zvt favors terrans. The whole contraversy right now is with bunker rushing, which involves 0 tech from both sides (no acad, no pool, no gas).
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On November 14 2004 10:27 Bladox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 10:14 Sadist wrote:On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
shut the fuck up, yellow losing to a bunker rush doesnt make the game imbalanced. Seriously all you idiots talking about balance on tl.net pretending like you know what you are talking about get irritating. How about you stop sucking at bw and get better. First of all you plz SHUT THE FUCK UP I posted what I think of this matchup as it is for now. You may not agree but there is a more polite way to express it. I never said that yellow losing 3-0 is making zvt unbalanced I said that I always thought zvt was unbalanced and I submitted some changes that (I think) would be accurate. and finally I didnt pretend that I knew for sure what I was talking about, I said (I think). This is an opinion. And yeah I almost forgot... If you could read BETTER instead of posting utter crap posts, this forum should be even better. Because for now the only person who looks idiot(that is the word you employed?) here is you. thx^^
uh as you can see, saying that now your idiotic beliefs have been "confirmed" You said that because yellow lost 0-3 to boxer with him bunker rushing the game needs a complete overhall to help newbies like you out
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It will take a while to counter this, but eventually someone will. And Yellow will get revenge soon, perhaps in the form of 4 pool July style.
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I always thought medics heal 2 hp per 1 energy... so late game, you could PLAGUE a bunch of m/m and the medics will just sit there and heal thousands of lost hps, then heal them back to full health like nothing happened and still have energy left --;;
that's ridiculous.
I think meds should start with 100 energy (like battary) but have 1hp:1energy or even 1hp:2energy. that way they might actually run out at some point if the terran is too trigger happy with stim
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On November 14 2004 16:05 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 10:27 Bladox wrote:On November 14 2004 10:14 Sadist wrote:On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
shut the fuck up, yellow losing to a bunker rush doesnt make the game imbalanced. Seriously all you idiots talking about balance on tl.net pretending like you know what you are talking about get irritating. How about you stop sucking at bw and get better. First of all you plz SHUT THE FUCK UP I posted what I think of this matchup as it is for now. You may not agree but there is a more polite way to express it. I never said that yellow losing 3-0 is making zvt unbalanced I said that I always thought zvt was unbalanced and I submitted some changes that (I think) would be accurate. and finally I didnt pretend that I knew for sure what I was talking about, I said (I think). This is an opinion. And yeah I almost forgot... If you could read BETTER instead of posting utter crap posts, this forum should be even better. Because for now the only person who looks idiot(that is the word you employed?) here is you. thx^^ uh as you can see, saying that now your idiotic beliefs have been "confirmed" You said that because yellow lost 0-3 to boxer with him bunker rushing the game needs a complete overhall to help newbies like you out
I said : ''Finally the confirmation has come'' because look at the 1st post of the topic plz.... Yellow said that he thinks terran has an advantage (HE confirmed what I thought) and if there is someone in this world that knows this game better than everyone else (especially the zvt matchup), I think it is yellow. So even if you say anything about balance, I think I'll listen to what this guy is saying ok? instead of loosing my time with someone like you who cannot even be called a starcraft player compared to him... His understanding of the game is greater that you could'nt imagine.
That is why I said ''the confirmation has come''
gg no re
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thats the dumbest post ive seen in quite some time.
I guess im glad my understanding of the game is greater than yours
or else id suck
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I expected that kind of arguments coming from you...
I didn't expect more...
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If you pool first, dual 8 rax will annihilate you. You'll have 10 lings or so when he has 8 or so rines and a varied amount of scvs banging your expo, making bunkers turrets and command centers.
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You guys are dumb. Lets see this same boxer strat being used in half of the tvz games at the pro level then I would say there might be balancing issues. But thats not going to happen so just be quiet.
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Boxer 3-0s Yellow and suddenly people start talking about a new patch to even this 'imbalance'.
The only imbalance is Boxer > Yellow.
Thank you and good night.
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which map did they play on, mani sucks
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Keep up the great work sharp, All of the translations you've provided recently, really make us closer to the pro gaming scene.
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On November 14 2004 17:15 FreeMarine wrote:
You guys are dumb. Lets see this same boxer strat being used in half of the tvz games at the pro level then I would say there might be balancing issues. But thats not going to happen so just be quiet.
3rd post and already calling people '' dumb''.....
this is not a good way to start here.....
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I've been reading tl for awhile just started posting now. Secondly it's none of your business what I say Im not going to be a brown noser to the admins like you seem to be doing just because they frequently ban people.
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hmmm thats like saying try to outmacro Oov
Watch and take notes from Reach.
Yellow said that he thinks terran has an advantage (HE confirmed what I thought) and if there is someone in this world that knows this game better than everyone else (especially the zvt matchup), I think it is yellow.
To be the devil's advocate, what YellOw says isn't the law/how it is necesarily. Obviously he's one of the best ZvTers in the world, but saying that T>Z because the maps favoured BoxeR's 8rax rush? Hmmm.
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so yellow wants them to weaken terran so he can finally win some tournies and get some more moolah.....whats the big deal it'll never happen
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Well theoreticly if a persons Micro was 100% on (OR at least 97.8% on) then an SCV Should never even attack a drone, So long as each drone is 10)% (at least 97.8%) Microed they will all kill SCVs for free (Go 1 range)
So they should weaken drones!!
I Dont think just because something seems one way games should be patched. For a while now the Lurk range > Bunk range has botherd me, its like Zerg has TWO seige units. And why do all the races have differant 50 mineral cost basic units. I mean 2 Melee guys or 1 ranged guy!? Imabalance!
The game has Differances in races, otherwise I'd be WC2 and there would be no point in having multiple races.
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Worst.player I dont think you get me
READ THE POST CAREFULLY
It was the responce to to what Klogon
Yeah outmacroing oov is possible as "You try surviving long enough to get defilers versus boxer with only one gas...." but in 95% cases you ll lose
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On November 15 2004 00:42 Jansports wrote:
Well theoreticly if a persons Micro was 100% on (OR at least 97.8% on) then an SCV Should never even attack a drone, So long as each drone is 10)% (at least 97.8%) Microed they will all kill SCVs for free (Go 1 range)
So they should weaken drones!!
I Dont think just because something seems one way games should be patched. For a while now the Lurk range > Bunk range has botherd me, its like Zerg has TWO seige units. And why do all the races have differant 50 mineral cost basic units. I mean 2 Melee guys or 1 ranged guy!? Imabalance!
The game has Differances in races, otherwise I'd be WC2 and there would be no point in having multiple races.
good point ;d
theres different races for a reason.....
Just like fighting games where people bitch about balance, which is a fucking joke, they want all the characters and races to be the same or something
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Bladox, Sadist is a much better player than you will ever be, and even though he's a T player the changes you suggested are bullshit and you really need to shut the fuck up.
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terran just have too much advantage early game to cheese with, bunkers, fast rines, scvs, lift off, etc.
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On November 15 2004 06:02 poor newb wrote:
terran just have too much advantage early game to cheese with, bunkers, fast rines, scvs, lift off, etc.
Terran can't steal gas.
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On November 15 2004 06:44 ProudCappi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2004 06:02 poor newb wrote:
terran just have too much advantage early game to cheese with, bunkers, fast rines, scvs, lift off, etc. Terran can't steal gas.
terran can build on geyser and continue harress with scv
but why bother to harass gas if you can kill them with bunker rush in one go
1 scv + 1 bunker + 1 marine >>>>> lings + drones
bunker builds damn fast as well, so terran can stop early expo, add turret tanks and zerg is dead
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On November 15 2004 07:05 poor newb wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2004 06:44 ProudCappi wrote:On November 15 2004 06:02 poor newb wrote:
terran just have too much advantage early game to cheese with, bunkers, fast rines, scvs, lift off, etc. Terran can't steal gas. terran can build on geyser and continue harress with scv but why bother to harass gas if you can kill them with bunker rush in one go 1 scv + 1 bunker + 1 marine >>>>> lings + drones bunker builds damn fast as well, so terran can stop early expo, add turret tanks and zerg is dead
now u know the 1 scv + 1 bunker + 1 marine trick, u just mastered the art of tvz~!
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yellow should have said gg
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On November 14 2004 16:39 Bladox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 16:05 Sadist wrote:On November 14 2004 10:27 Bladox wrote:On November 14 2004 10:14 Sadist wrote:On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
shut the fuck up, yellow losing to a bunker rush doesnt make the game imbalanced. Seriously all you idiots talking about balance on tl.net pretending like you know what you are talking about get irritating. How about you stop sucking at bw and get better. First of all you plz SHUT THE FUCK UP I posted what I think of this matchup as it is for now. You may not agree but there is a more polite way to express it. I never said that yellow losing 3-0 is making zvt unbalanced I said that I always thought zvt was unbalanced and I submitted some changes that (I think) would be accurate. and finally I didnt pretend that I knew for sure what I was talking about, I said (I think). This is an opinion. And yeah I almost forgot... If you could read BETTER instead of posting utter crap posts, this forum should be even better. Because for now the only person who looks idiot(that is the word you employed?) here is you. thx^^ uh as you can see, saying that now your idiotic beliefs have been "confirmed" You said that because yellow lost 0-3 to boxer with him bunker rushing the game needs a complete overhall to help newbies like you out I said : ''Finally the confirmation has come'' because look at the 1st post of the topic plz.... Yellow said that he thinks terran has an advantage (HE confirmed what I thought) and if there is someone in this world that knows this game better than everyone else (especially the zvt matchup), I think it is yellow. So even if you say anything about balance, I think I'll listen to what this guy is saying ok? instead of loosing my time with someone like you who cannot even be called a starcraft player compared to him... His understanding of the game is greater that you could'nt imagine. That is why I said ''the confirmation has come'' gg no re
Thats a weak argument Bladox. You're claiming the "confirmation" of imbalance in Starcraft has come because of what Yellow said? In the very next line he proceeds by saying he shouldn't blame the game, implying that any mention of imbalance is absurd.
Lets not forget the circumstances of Yellows statement. He was obviously extremely depressed, and intense emotional states can disallow cohesive thinking and solid logic. I think its far more likely Yellow spoke about imbalance more out of shock, depression and bewilderment at what had happened than anything else. If I were you, I'd wait for him to speak again at a later date. What if he were to refute his own statement?
And Yellow is but one pro gamer. Most will tell you that the game itself is balanced, and its only the maps that tilt the scale. Dont some leagues have maps favoring zerg? And what of maps like paradoxxx? An inherently "imbalanced" game couldnt have lasted this long and with such ardent support.
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Bladox, i don't see how those changes would make yellow win against the bunkers rushes all u said comes after the bunk rush, makes no sense
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make bunkers build longer and/or repair slower would help stop bunker cheeses
what else are bunkers used for anyway?
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fayth scv hp to 40 would affect the bunker rush a LOT
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bunker rush is bull shit
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increase drones hp to 60 would help :p
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On November 15 2004 12:59 Fayth[pG] wrote:Bladox, i don't see how those changes would make yellow win against the bunkers rushes all u said comes after the bunk rush, makes no sense
When I wrote that I wasnt thinking about rushes at all I juste posted some changes that I think would be okay. It is sure that medics and sci vessels arent implicated in rushes.
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On November 15 2004 12:55 Gandalf the Wizard wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 16:39 Bladox wrote:On November 14 2004 16:05 Sadist wrote:On November 14 2004 10:27 Bladox wrote:On November 14 2004 10:14 Sadist wrote:On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
shut the fuck up, yellow losing to a bunker rush doesnt make the game imbalanced. Seriously all you idiots talking about balance on tl.net pretending like you know what you are talking about get irritating. How about you stop sucking at bw and get better. First of all you plz SHUT THE FUCK UP I posted what I think of this matchup as it is for now. You may not agree but there is a more polite way to express it. I never said that yellow losing 3-0 is making zvt unbalanced I said that I always thought zvt was unbalanced and I submitted some changes that (I think) would be accurate. and finally I didnt pretend that I knew for sure what I was talking about, I said (I think). This is an opinion. And yeah I almost forgot... If you could read BETTER instead of posting utter crap posts, this forum should be even better. Because for now the only person who looks idiot(that is the word you employed?) here is you. thx^^ uh as you can see, saying that now your idiotic beliefs have been "confirmed" You said that because yellow lost 0-3 to boxer with him bunker rushing the game needs a complete overhall to help newbies like you out I said : ''Finally the confirmation has come'' because look at the 1st post of the topic plz.... Yellow said that he thinks terran has an advantage (HE confirmed what I thought) and if there is someone in this world that knows this game better than everyone else (especially the zvt matchup), I think it is yellow. So even if you say anything about balance, I think I'll listen to what this guy is saying ok? instead of loosing my time with someone like you who cannot even be called a starcraft player compared to him... His understanding of the game is greater that you could'nt imagine. That is why I said ''the confirmation has come'' gg no re Thats a weak argument Bladox. You're claiming the "confirmation" of imbalance in Starcraft has come because of what Yellow said? In the very next line he proceeds by saying he shouldn't blame the game, implying that any mention of imbalance is absurd. Lets not forget the circumstances of Yellows statement. He was obviously extremely depressed, and intense emotional states can disallow cohesive thinking and solid logic. I think its far more likely Yellow spoke about imbalance more out of shock, depression and bewilderment at what had happened than anything else. If I were you, I'd wait for him to speak again at a later date. What if he were to refute his own statement? And Yellow is but one pro gamer. Most will tell you that the game itself is balanced, and its only the maps that tilt the scale. Dont some leagues have maps favoring zerg? And what of maps like paradoxxx? An inherently "imbalanced" game couldnt have lasted this long and with such ardent support.
Yeah I know losing 3-0 in a mere 20 minutes can makes anyone (especially someone who train 15 hours + a day) say anything because of the emotional shock. As for the maps I dont complaint about that: some maps balance some races everybody know that... I only posted changes to things that makes non-sense to me right now, You may not agree at all . I'm not imposing my point of view to anybody this is just and opinion, an idea.
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On November 15 2004 16:03 Bladox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2004 12:55 Gandalf the Wizard wrote:On November 14 2004 16:39 Bladox wrote:On November 14 2004 16:05 Sadist wrote:On November 14 2004 10:27 Bladox wrote:On November 14 2004 10:14 Sadist wrote:On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
shut the fuck up, yellow losing to a bunker rush doesnt make the game imbalanced. Seriously all you idiots talking about balance on tl.net pretending like you know what you are talking about get irritating. How about you stop sucking at bw and get better. First of all you plz SHUT THE FUCK UP I posted what I think of this matchup as it is for now. You may not agree but there is a more polite way to express it. I never said that yellow losing 3-0 is making zvt unbalanced I said that I always thought zvt was unbalanced and I submitted some changes that (I think) would be accurate. and finally I didnt pretend that I knew for sure what I was talking about, I said (I think). This is an opinion. And yeah I almost forgot... If you could read BETTER instead of posting utter crap posts, this forum should be even better. Because for now the only person who looks idiot(that is the word you employed?) here is you. thx^^ uh as you can see, saying that now your idiotic beliefs have been "confirmed" You said that because yellow lost 0-3 to boxer with him bunker rushing the game needs a complete overhall to help newbies like you out I said : ''Finally the confirmation has come'' because look at the 1st post of the topic plz.... Yellow said that he thinks terran has an advantage (HE confirmed what I thought) and if there is someone in this world that knows this game better than everyone else (especially the zvt matchup), I think it is yellow. So even if you say anything about balance, I think I'll listen to what this guy is saying ok? instead of loosing my time with someone like you who cannot even be called a starcraft player compared to him... His understanding of the game is greater that you could'nt imagine. That is why I said ''the confirmation has come'' gg no re Thats a weak argument Bladox. You're claiming the "confirmation" of imbalance in Starcraft has come because of what Yellow said? In the very next line he proceeds by saying he shouldn't blame the game, implying that any mention of imbalance is absurd. Lets not forget the circumstances of Yellows statement. He was obviously extremely depressed, and intense emotional states can disallow cohesive thinking and solid logic. I think its far more likely Yellow spoke about imbalance more out of shock, depression and bewilderment at what had happened than anything else. If I were you, I'd wait for him to speak again at a later date. What if he were to refute his own statement? And Yellow is but one pro gamer. Most will tell you that the game itself is balanced, and its only the maps that tilt the scale. Dont some leagues have maps favoring zerg? And what of maps like paradoxxx? An inherently "imbalanced" game couldnt have lasted this long and with such ardent support. Yeah I know losing 3-0 in a mere 20 minutes can makes anyone (especially someone who train 15 hours + a day) say anything because of the emotional shock. As for the maps I dont complaint about that: some maps balance some races everybody know that... I only posted changes to things that makes non-sense to me right now, You may not agree at all . I'm not imposing my point of view to anybody this is just and opinion, an idea.
A counter will be found. It better be, because I can't imagine anything else that would work without imbalancing any other part of the game.
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On November 15 2004 04:45 exalted wrote:Bladox, Sadist is a much better player than you will ever be, and even though he's a T player the changes you suggested are bullshit and you really need to shut the fuck up.
Sadist is a way more better player than me that is for sure but his reaction to the 1st post I made wasnt reprensentative of a great player at all. Instead of saying that he disagreed with my changes, he started flaming and insulting. I submitted these changes in order to receive feeback from people. Not to hear stupid comments like : ''you dont know what you talk about stfu blablabla...'' with no arguments at all explaining why my ideas seemed wrong to him. As a good example of what I hoped for look at my discussion with ProudCappi. He said he did not agree to what I wrote so he explained his point of view and so on. There were no spaming at all and everything was fine. I mean if some people gets too angry with this game ... let it go man.....
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what you have to learn in life is that people are dicks
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I think yellow is allowed to admit that terran has more advantages,
of course he (and all progamers) know it won't help his sportsmanship to blame imbalances for losses, but doesn't mean he has to make a vow of silence on the subject
now now people dont look at my drone icon and assume i'm just a bitter zergling, i chose it cos when i registered all i saw were terran/toss icons
to learn the game i play all matchups because i think it's the best way to realise strategies and unit interactions, and every time i lose i learn about the other race strategies and timing
i usually choose zerg in zvt because if i do win i feel more rewarded than winning as T, i feel the zerg player has to be playing at his 120% to win vs a Terran on the same level IMHO
out of the 3 possible different matchups i think TvP is pretty balanced but
Z>P and T>Z in general for players on the same level
the spawning pool cost was increased from 150 to 200 a long time ago for a reason...the zergling health was decreased from 40 to 35 for a reason too..the dragoon build time was increased , storm damage decreased etc..that's partially what patches are for isn't it?
i thought it was generally agreed that a 1 base zerg can't compete with a 1 base terran for too long unless terran fucks up, mainly because of their reliance on gas-munching units like mutas and lurkers cos success with basic units (hydra and ling) vs M&M is not unheard of but quite risky and rare, unlike ZvP
its things like this "cheese" bunker rush (which sometimes works on a protoss' main base too)that would inspire changes in units and buildings don't you think? i'm not talking to anyone in particular so please don't flame me thanks, enough from me have a nice day all~
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yellow lost his game on a very bad way
hmmm... his fans will also support him as before i think
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tvZ is a little imbalanced these days yes in my imho
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Boxer and Yellow were matching like finger guessing game.
For the consecutive 3 times, Boxer chose stone and Yellow chose scissors, so Boxer win !
ps: in a finger guessing game, you can choose one thing one time from stone, scissors and cloth.
rules are :
stone > scissors
scissors > cloth
cloth > stone
^_^
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On November 16 2004 00:27 cuteboy wrote:
Boxer and Yellow were matching like finger guessing game.
For the consecutive 3 times, Boxer chose stone and Yellow chose scissors, so Boxer win !
ps: in a finger guessing game, you can choose one thing one time from stone, scissors and cloth.
rules are :
stone > scissors
scissors > cloth
cloth > stone
^_^
lol....cuteboy is cute
finger guessing game = rock paper scissors in english
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On November 16 2004 00:34 mindspike wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2004 00:27 cuteboy wrote:
Boxer and Yellow were matching like finger guessing game.
For the consecutive 3 times, Boxer chose stone and Yellow chose scissors, so Boxer win !
ps: in a finger guessing game, you can choose one thing one time from stone, scissors and cloth.
rules are :
stone > scissors
scissors > cloth
cloth > stone
^_^ lol....cuteboy is cute finger guessing game = rock paper scissors in english
oh, I got it.
Thx for giving the correct phrase.
ps: "stone scissors cloth" is really chinese style
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I think blizzard should hire Bladox
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Norway10161 Posts
You guys should realize yellow wrote this in deepest depression. Both he and Boxer qualified a week before anyone else, and have been non-stop practicing since then. How would you feel if you devoted 2 weeks to 12+ hours practice only to have it all ripped apart without doing anything at all. Poor guy.
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On November 16 2004 01:44 hasuwar wrote:
I think blizzard should hire Bladox
Could you tell me what's the Bladox?
I have turned to dictionary-on-line only to find nothing at all. 
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Sweden33719 Posts
It's the name of a forum poster ~_~
I dont think it means anything :o
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thank you.
I find it through Yahoo.com
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no one has mentioned 10/9 hatch into 9 pool as an alternative build order yet, wonder why?
ogn's maps are part of the problem, maybe they will realize how shitty their maps are. the reason they are a problem is that you can't play pool first on them for shit
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Poor Hong Jin Ho
he is very upset
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On November 16 2004 05:26 TheGoliath wrote:
no one has mentioned 10/9 hatch into 9 pool as an alternative build order yet, wonder why?
ogn's maps are part of the problem, maybe they will realize how shitty their maps are. the reason they are a problem is that you can't play pool first on them for shit
9 pool dont help because terran would just build normally and kill zerg who cant early expand easily, terran wouldnt lose much but the zerg build order gets fucked up
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I feel that now he feels bad, but he will continue to search for the perfect counter strat a will win lots of games in a row till the terrans find a counter strat again and so on, or thats what I want to believe, I play terran but the progammer I like the most is YellOw because he is so hard working, continue your hard work, your the best, you are the star of starcraft, you are what makes finals interesting no more tvt shit plz, how long no zvz, pvp finals.. always tvt. Well YELLOW FIGHTING!
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On November 16 2004 05:26 TheGoliath wrote:
no one has mentioned 10/9 hatch into 9 pool as an alternative build order yet, wonder why?
ogn's maps are part of the problem, maybe they will realize how shitty their maps are. the reason they are a problem is that you can't play pool first on them for shit
Extractor -> Cancel (Cancelling = get 75% of original back) = wastes 25% of your minerals (37.5 minerals back). Also that drone itself has been idle for like 5~10 seconds, thus, there isn't much of a advantage, more or less, I believe 'extractor trick' is slightly disadvantageous, that's why you see most Zerg users not using that build.
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it's just unfortunate for yellow that boxer pulled that strat before he got a chance to fight. GJ for both.
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Poor Yell0w, get over it and kick ass in the KT-KTF!
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i think the problem is more within the maps than the races
but am i the only person who thinks irradiate should be 100? o.o
<----p player anyways so it doesnt matter, but ive always thuoght that x.x
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I feel for him. It's hard times being pro gamer and losing in front of so many fans, but on the bright side, he is owning it up hard in KT-KTF :D
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"God has abandoned meT-T"
Did anyone start to laugh HARDCORE when they saw that?
lol!
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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wow, im now a fan of yellow
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On November 16 2004 03:51 cuteboy wrote:Could you tell me what's the Bladox? I have turned to dictionary-on-line only to find nothing at all.
This is actually my nick it dosent means anything at all. I just found that nickname cool when I was in 6th grade^^.
btw thank you hasuwar^^ and if you have some influence at blizzard dont hesitate man...^^ ill start anytime :p
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ya he just took a big gamble on consistantly trying to get his expansion up
He did it cuz thats wat he thought was the only way to compete with boxer if the game went into the latter stages
obviously it didnt work out, but hes still my hero
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EPT
