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On November 14 2004 10:16 ProudCappi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
No, no, and no. The second two are absolutely wrong, and would throw off mid and late game zvt. The first one would make bunker rushing impossible, but would make it harder for scvs to survive in a slow push. Before we want to change the game, lets make sure there is no counter to bunker rushing...
For the second one I dont know exactly where we sould put the cost of heal. I mean.... I said 2 but maybe it should be between like 1.5 and 2 because I agree that 2 means the double of mana required to heal the same amount of units. But what I know fo sure is that 1 is not enough. How many time the following situation happened?
-OMG my medics have 0 mana I cant recover my marines Im dying noooooo....
I think that except if you had a ratio of 1medic:40marines this thing hasen't occured in the starcraft history.
For the 3rd. CURRENTLY, 1 science vessel can kill 3 lurkers or 3 guards if is it has 250 mana.
Considering you researched only irradite and you dont mind researching mana upg You can kill 2 of those poor lurks and a third one 25 sec later (if your science vessel is 200/200 mana)
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This is so sad. I hope TvZ is still somehow balanced and gosu Z players find away around boxer's strat. Or it will effect the whole SC Community.
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Some changes
SCV HP is still 60 but increase its cool down to 22 so that all three scv, drones and probe have the same cool down
medic heal slower if the unit which the medic heals is moving
Irradiate remains the same but doesn't have stack effect
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On November 14 2004 02:51 ChApFoU wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 00:10 Geval wrote:
aha. I dont know if anyone has noticed, but July showed not that long time ago that all T can be beaten. Did Oov (many would argue the best terran) say some crap about ZvT imbalance after loosing 6 games (or something like that) on the row? that was very very different this wasn't 6 games in a row a oov tried some risky strategies + the maps weren't imbalanced in favor of july, he just pwned oov's macro, fast multi style.
Didnt oov also lose 3-0 or 4-1 on GhemTV?
Any way Oonv DID NOT PLAY RISKY IN ALL OF THESE GAMES.
map more Z favor. hmmm ok so why did youllow blame the imbalance not maps?
And BTW in Boxer vs Yellow serie maps did not seems to be that important
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I didn't read the whole thread, not enough time, so if what i say has already be said don't hate.
ZERG NEEDS DEFILERS. DARKSWARM IS HARD TO BEAT. just live long enough to get it, Zergplayers re think your game, lets see some next level strategy.
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MURICA15980 Posts
You try surviving long enough to get defilers versus boxer with only one gas....
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On November 14 2004 12:31 Klogon wrote:
You try surviving long enough to get defilers versus boxer with only one gas....
hmmm thats like saying try to outmacro Oov
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lol and if by luck you succeed you will probably lose your defiler(or your 3) to 75 mana of our beloved science vessel
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On November 14 2004 10:36 Bladox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 10:16 ProudCappi wrote:On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
No, no, and no. The second two are absolutely wrong, and would throw off mid and late game zvt. The first one would make bunker rushing impossible, but would make it harder for scvs to survive in a slow push. Before we want to change the game, lets make sure there is no counter to bunker rushing... For the second one I dont know exactly where we sould put the cost of heal. I mean.... I said 2 but maybe it should be between like 1.5 and 2 because I agree that 2 means the double of mana required to heal the same amount of units. But what I know fo sure is that 1 is not enough. How many time the following situation happened? -OMG my medics have 0 mana I cant recover my marines Im dying noooooo.... I think that except if you had a ratio of 1medic:40marines this thing hasen't occured in the starcraft history. For the 3rd. CURRENTLY, 1 science vessel can kill 3 lurkers or 3 guards if is it has 250 mana. Considering you researched only irradite and you dont mind researching mana upg You can kill 2 of those poor lurks and a third one 25 sec later (if your science vessel is 200/200 mana)
I have had medics run dry several times, and I have seen it happen several times. This happens when you stim, then stand still and let the medics heal before you go into battle. It lets your marines last a lot longer (they attack with full health), but your medics really get drained. With vessels, it is hard enough keeping them alive as it is, and I've never seen one at 250 energy. Post a replay, please. Plus, once zerg gets swarm, you absolutely need to use iradiate. Mid and late game zvt is not imbalanced, get over yellow losing early game.
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STFU balance talkers. -_-;
Seriously all the stuff you bitch about is something a lil proper control and prevent or cut down damage from ridiculously. There's no need to bitch cuz Yellow got beat in 20 minutes in a bo5.
Just compliment boxer for showing such dominance over Yellow which hasnt been shown over another gamer since Chojja vs Nada and Yellow vs Oov... -_-;;
Although it's funny how the 3 shortest top ranking series's are all TvZ but it's the nature of the MU. It's fast and hard
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On November 14 2004 12:53 ProudCappi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 10:36 Bladox wrote:On November 14 2004 10:16 ProudCappi wrote:On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
No, no, and no. The second two are absolutely wrong, and would throw off mid and late game zvt. The first one would make bunker rushing impossible, but would make it harder for scvs to survive in a slow push. Before we want to change the game, lets make sure there is no counter to bunker rushing... For the second one I dont know exactly where we sould put the cost of heal. I mean.... I said 2 but maybe it should be between like 1.5 and 2 because I agree that 2 means the double of mana required to heal the same amount of units. But what I know fo sure is that 1 is not enough. How many time the following situation happened? -OMG my medics have 0 mana I cant recover my marines Im dying noooooo.... I think that except if you had a ratio of 1medic:40marines this thing hasen't occured in the starcraft history. For the 3rd. CURRENTLY, 1 science vessel can kill 3 lurkers or 3 guards if is it has 250 mana. Considering you researched only irradite and you dont mind researching mana upg You can kill 2 of those poor lurks and a third one 25 sec later (if your science vessel is 200/200 mana) I have had medics run dry several times, and I have seen it happen several times. This happens when you stim, then stand still and let the medics heal before you go into battle. It lets your marines last a lot longer (they attack with full health), but your medics really get drained. With vessels, it is hard enough keeping them alive as it is, and I've never seen one at 250 energy. Post a replay, please. Plus, once zerg gets swarm, you absolutely need to use iradiate. Mid and late game zvt is not imbalanced, get over yellow losing early game.
OK listen man.
1 medic at 200/200 mana can heal 20 marines who just stimmed themselves(20x10=200). This is without considering the mana regenaration. So if you have 2 medics you now have a capacity of 40 marines and 3 ->60 etc... but 1 medic per group of 20 marines is stupidly not enough as your marines will get hurted during the battle and the medic wont have the time to reach each of your marines. So actually terran players will go with a minimum of 5-6 medics for a early-mid-game army constitued of about 20-30 marines/firebat. 5 medics all together can recover 1000 hp and considering you'll not stim 3 times in a row in the same battle this is way more mana that you really need. So I barely understands how you manage to get your medics run dry SEVERAL time.
This is even more strange because 5 medics is very few so most of the time youll get more of them and you'll have medics spreaded across your infantry troops.
For irradiate ... YES you need them when you see defilers im not arguing about that because this is not the point at all. Even if we put irradiate at 100 you'll be able to irradiate those defilers without problems...
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On November 13 2004 09:29 1024MB wrote:
He didn't lose any respect from me. I see nothing wrong with playing a game where the sole object is winning, to win. But hey, maybe that's just me.
all for win?
well then, i guess you would not hesitate hacking.
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On November 14 2004 15:10 Bladox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 12:53 ProudCappi wrote:On November 14 2004 10:36 Bladox wrote:On November 14 2004 10:16 ProudCappi wrote:On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
No, no, and no. The second two are absolutely wrong, and would throw off mid and late game zvt. The first one would make bunker rushing impossible, but would make it harder for scvs to survive in a slow push. Before we want to change the game, lets make sure there is no counter to bunker rushing... For the second one I dont know exactly where we sould put the cost of heal. I mean.... I said 2 but maybe it should be between like 1.5 and 2 because I agree that 2 means the double of mana required to heal the same amount of units. But what I know fo sure is that 1 is not enough. How many time the following situation happened? -OMG my medics have 0 mana I cant recover my marines Im dying noooooo.... I think that except if you had a ratio of 1medic:40marines this thing hasen't occured in the starcraft history. For the 3rd. CURRENTLY, 1 science vessel can kill 3 lurkers or 3 guards if is it has 250 mana. Considering you researched only irradite and you dont mind researching mana upg You can kill 2 of those poor lurks and a third one 25 sec later (if your science vessel is 200/200 mana) I have had medics run dry several times, and I have seen it happen several times. This happens when you stim, then stand still and let the medics heal before you go into battle. It lets your marines last a lot longer (they attack with full health), but your medics really get drained. With vessels, it is hard enough keeping them alive as it is, and I've never seen one at 250 energy. Post a replay, please. Plus, once zerg gets swarm, you absolutely need to use iradiate. Mid and late game zvt is not imbalanced, get over yellow losing early game. OK listen man. 1 medic at 200/200 mana can heal 20 marines who just stimmed themselves(20x10=200). This is without considering the mana regenaration. So if you have 2 medics you now have a capacity of 40 marines and 3 ->60 etc... but 1 medic per group of 20 marines is stupidly not enough as your marines will get hurted during the battle and the medic wont have the time to reach each of your marines. So actually terran players will go with a minimum of 5-6 medics for a early-mid-game army constitued of about 20-30 marines/firebat. 5 medics all together can recover 1000 hp and considering you'll not stim 3 times in a row in the same battle this is way more mana that you really need. So I barely understands how you manage to get your medics run dry SEVERAL time. This is even more strange because 5 medics is very few so most of the time youll get more of them and you'll have medics spreaded across your infantry troops. For irradiate ... YES you need them when you see defilers im not arguing about that because this is not the point at all. Even if we put irradiate at 100 you'll be able to irradiate those defilers without problems...
Medics never reach 200 energy. they start with 50, and don't just sit around until they are full.
However, of course they usually don't run out of energy, my point was in situations where you have 1 medic for 12-16 marines (which happens when some of your medics die off, or you macro badly (ie: me), they do run out.
However, I don't know of anyone else who thinks that mid-late game zvt favors terrans. The whole contraversy right now is with bunker rushing, which involves 0 tech from both sides (no acad, no pool, no gas).
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On November 14 2004 10:27 Bladox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 10:14 Sadist wrote:On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
shut the fuck up, yellow losing to a bunker rush doesnt make the game imbalanced. Seriously all you idiots talking about balance on tl.net pretending like you know what you are talking about get irritating. How about you stop sucking at bw and get better. First of all you plz SHUT THE FUCK UP I posted what I think of this matchup as it is for now. You may not agree but there is a more polite way to express it. I never said that yellow losing 3-0 is making zvt unbalanced I said that I always thought zvt was unbalanced and I submitted some changes that (I think) would be accurate. and finally I didnt pretend that I knew for sure what I was talking about, I said (I think). This is an opinion. And yeah I almost forgot... If you could read BETTER instead of posting utter crap posts, this forum should be even better. Because for now the only person who looks idiot(that is the word you employed?) here is you. thx^^
uh as you can see, saying that now your idiotic beliefs have been "confirmed" You said that because yellow lost 0-3 to boxer with him bunker rushing the game needs a complete overhall to help newbies like you out
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It will take a while to counter this, but eventually someone will. And Yellow will get revenge soon, perhaps in the form of 4 pool July style. 
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I always thought medics heal 2 hp per 1 energy... so late game, you could PLAGUE a bunch of m/m and the medics will just sit there and heal thousands of lost hps, then heal them back to full health like nothing happened and still have energy left --;;
that's ridiculous.
I think meds should start with 100 energy (like battary) but have 1hp:1energy or even 1hp:2energy. that way they might actually run out at some point if the terran is too trigger happy with stim
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On November 14 2004 16:05 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2004 10:27 Bladox wrote:On November 14 2004 10:14 Sadist wrote:On November 14 2004 09:51 Bladox wrote:
I always thought terran had an advantage and finally the confirmation has come.
here is some changes that would be accurate(I think) to balance terrans:
1- scv hp MUST be reduced to 40, not 50, 40!
2-medics ''heal'' ability sould cost 2 per hp recovered. 1 is plain stupid. Currently 1 medic can fully recover 6 marines and more excluding the mana regenaration......wtf is that....
As it is for now I say to blizzard: put 2 mana per hp or put infinite mana... there is no difference between 1 per hp and infinite mana....
3- Irradiate cost MUST be increased, 75 is too cheap. Considering Spawn broodling that cost 150 and that the ability itself suck compared to irradiate
I think these 3 changes will help zerg being equal to terran
shut the fuck up, yellow losing to a bunker rush doesnt make the game imbalanced. Seriously all you idiots talking about balance on tl.net pretending like you know what you are talking about get irritating. How about you stop sucking at bw and get better. First of all you plz SHUT THE FUCK UP I posted what I think of this matchup as it is for now. You may not agree but there is a more polite way to express it. I never said that yellow losing 3-0 is making zvt unbalanced I said that I always thought zvt was unbalanced and I submitted some changes that (I think) would be accurate. and finally I didnt pretend that I knew for sure what I was talking about, I said (I think). This is an opinion. And yeah I almost forgot... If you could read BETTER instead of posting utter crap posts, this forum should be even better. Because for now the only person who looks idiot(that is the word you employed?) here is you. thx^^ uh as you can see, saying that now your idiotic beliefs have been "confirmed" You said that because yellow lost 0-3 to boxer with him bunker rushing the game needs a complete overhall to help newbies like you out
I said : ''Finally the confirmation has come'' because look at the 1st post of the topic plz.... Yellow said that he thinks terran has an advantage (HE confirmed what I thought) and if there is someone in this world that knows this game better than everyone else (especially the zvt matchup), I think it is yellow. So even if you say anything about balance, I think I'll listen to what this guy is saying ok? instead of loosing my time with someone like you who cannot even be called a starcraft player compared to him... His understanding of the game is greater that you could'nt imagine.
That is why I said ''the confirmation has come''
gg no re
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thats the dumbest post ive seen in quite some time.
I guess im glad my understanding of the game is greater than yours
or else id suck
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I expected that kind of arguments coming from you...
I didn't expect more...
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EPT
