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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:08 below66 wrote: 14cc wall-in VS what can I do about it? 9 pool speed still kills it. 3 hatch before pool and actually defending your expo with lings and lurkers. Jaedong should've been fine in Game 2 but he literally just suicided his two lurks without ling support into Flash's push. | ||
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ybuem
1 Post
Does this early valk/irradiate build makes muta harass totaly useless ? I'm really a noob, and never play against something else than computers, so I just can't think about it by myself^^ If so, i think it's really huge for terrans to avoid spending a ton af minerals in turrets, losing SCVs and marines. | ||
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below66
United States1761 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:09 Jackal03 wrote: kwanro would be a msl champion had he played this finals I would like to say this is true, but we all know flash plays different vs a stubborn player like kwanro who never stops being aggressive. | ||
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revy
United States1524 Posts
You're absolutely right.. I completely forgot about that. Regardless the scout was in to see the 12 hatch before the CC went down. Flash was being careful. | ||
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5unrise
New Zealand646 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:03 orcsmash wrote: We should make a list to make it easier for fanboys to QQ about their player losing. (myself included): Player "x" won because: [x]The maps were gay. [ ]Power outage. [x]His race is imba. [x]Cheeseing motherfucker. [ ]He did stupid shit that won him the game. [x]BO victory. [ ]Someone signaled him from the crowd. [ ]Got lucky. [x]The mu is unfair. [ ]Boxer won. [ ]Is a noob. There, damn you imba terran flash, go slump hard. Long live the swarm!! | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:09 SuperArc wrote: Nope, Kwanro had the exact same chance last MSL, Flash went early rax against him, but Kwanro 12hatched like every game. Addd 14CC in their first game and 1 rax expand in game 4... So only twice he went 7 rax | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:11 Lebesgue wrote: Addd 14CC in their first game and 1 rax expand in game 4... So only twice he went 7 rax yeah, didnt remember correctly. I only knew that if Kwanro had played like he usually does he would have been in last year's final. | ||
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Qwertify
United States2531 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:07 Lebesgue wrote: And what was Jaedong supposed to do. After he pumped so many hydras he had to try a bust... Pressure the front, and then later drop in the main. It might get scouted, but it has a better chance of winning than just throwing your hydras at Flash's door. Clearly Flash had that well defended. I guess Jaedong just choked. In anycase, can't say that Flash didn't play perfectly, so congrats to him on winning. | ||
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space_yes
United States548 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:10 TwoToneTerran wrote: 9 pool speed still kills it. 3 hatch before pool and actually defending your expo with lings and lurkers. Jaedong should've been fine in Game 2 but he literally just suicided his two lurks without ling support into Flash's push. He was desperate to save his 3rd. JD didn't want to go 2 base v 2 base with Flash. Sure, it would have been better to wait, either way though, that hat was going down. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:10 ybuem wrote: There's something i wonder... Does this early valk/irradiate build makes muta harass totaly useless ? I'm really a noob, and never play against something else than computers, so I just can't think about it by myself^^ If so, i think it's really huge for terrans to avoid spending a ton af minerals in turrets, losing SCVs and marines. Valks are obviously going to be a coin toss against lurker builds, and the fact that Jaedong was in the dark about the Starport until 2 valks were out doesn't help. If he had scouted the Starport, he most certainly wouldn't have just gotten pure mutas as his first spire units. | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
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darktreb
United States3019 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:10 TwoToneTerran wrote: 9 pool speed still kills it. 3 hatch before pool and actually defending your expo with lings and lurkers. Jaedong should've been fine in Game 2 but he literally just suicided his two lurks without ling support into Flash's push. In fairness he was trying to save the third Hatch. It was his fault for losing too many lings before but the suicide was just a desperation move and the game was already over when he didn't kill more Marines in the exchange (somehow). | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:12 space_yes wrote: He was desperate to save his 3rd. JD didn't want to go 2 base v 2 base with Flash. Sure, it would have been better to wait, either way though, that hat was going down. No it wasn't. His lurks were there in time to push the MnM back. Jaedong played greedy, pumped too many drones and made no lings or sunkens to support his remainder lurkers. He expected to decimate Flash with his mutas -- even with valk support -- and failed to. Jaedong made uncharacteristic mistakes from a position that even Day9 himself said he was poised to take the lead. | ||
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Pvvned
United States409 Posts
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:06 Kyuukyuu wrote: So what did you want him to do at that point? Transition into a macro game when he hasn't mined his 3rd gas and his Lair was just starting? We saw how that turned out Containing mech doesn't even do shit because it's not like it moves out Still better than outright suiciding. | ||
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Corrupt
Bulgaria1312 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:15 Sadistx wrote: Still better than outright suiciding. It's Flash. The longer the game goes, the less likely he is to make a game-losing mistake. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:06 snowdrift86 wrote: A > B, B > C doesn't mean A > C. But Effort definitely showed better adaptability and didn't hold back from early aggression. You cannot compare the series, saying effort would have won if flash did this to him. The strategies were completely different and masslings wouldn't have worked for Jaedong/Effort in this finals. The reason why flash 14CC'd so many time was because he's able to hold it on these maps, and on matchpoint he blocked of better than vs effort and scouted earlier and went vulture. | ||
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DarkMatter_
Canada1774 Posts
In game 1, Jaedong didn't seem to read Flash's strategy very well (full credit to Flash here for a pretty ingenious build). He really should've invested in at least a few lurkers. Given the situation, I thought he did pretty well to hold out for as long as he did, but he never should've gotten into that position in the first place. In game 2 especially, if JD's micro was a little better and if Flash happened to mismicro a little bit, we could've seen a much different outcome with Jaedong crushing that push and gaining a huge advantage. Game 3 was just pathetic. His choice to go for a hydra bust wasn't a bad one, but trying to allin when Flash already had several tanks+bunkers was just plain retarded. Even Kwanro would know better. It's not even like he was in a position where allining was his only hope. Flash had to pull a ton of scvs to defend/repair, Jaedong could've just used this opportunity to get his economy on par and take it into the late game. Instead, he suicided a whole bunch of hydras to kill a bunker that Flash no longer needed, leaving him with almost no units to defend against Flash's push. Congrats to Flash. Flash has always been an amazing player, but his builds and strategies were mostly standard and predictable, relying mostly on superior mechanics and perfect timing pushes. But in today's match, he elevated his play to a whole new level. He combined his perfect mechanics with really creative builds and strategies. I wonder if this was just a onetime thing for the big occasion, or whether we'll see Flash trying more of these unorthodox builds on a regular basis. PS. I officially hate Effort. PPS. I'm going to 9pool in every single ZvT for the next few months since I bet nearly all Terran players are going to start 14ccing. EDIT: People should stop blaming the losses on map imbalances. I don't think they had a huge influence on the outcome. However, I will agree that 14CC is pretty fucking cheesy and lame. | ||
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Vedic
United States582 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:06 snowdrift86 wrote: A > B, B > C doesn't mean A > C. But Effort definitely showed better adaptability and didn't hold back from early aggression. Uhh, if you lay it out correctly, it would be: A > B > C So yes, A > C. | ||
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