2010 Shinhan Bank Proleague Round 4 Week 1 (OGN) vs. STX SouL vs. Hwaseung OZ Saturday, April 10th, 2010: 13:00 KST Lineups will be announced before each game.
The 2010 Winner's League 4th place team, STX SouL, is a deep team. With this newly introduced format of lineup concealing, who will they send? Will we be seeing Calm tonight, or will his devilish double, Clam, appear? After missing out on the SWL playoff match against Woongjin Stars, is Hwasin the Red Sniper back in action? Will Kal come out to play? Or will his mediocre performance in the individual leagues leave him superseded by the YoonJoong? STX SouL is definitely going to be quite the questionable team this round around, for besides the prominent players already named, we'll still have the likes of Bogus, hero, Modesty, and ToSsGirL around. Well, okay I'm kidding about the last one. Tune in tonight to see who this team fields for its first match!
Oh Jaedong OZ, who dost thou send out tonight? With the elimination of the race restriction OZ's choices will not take a detective to figure out. Expect to see the Tyrant, Jaedong (who is hopefully recovered from his case of enteritis), for both a regular match and for the Ace if it comes around to that. Joining Jaedong tonight will be the splashy HiyA and the ever-so-cute Killer, whose name just doesn't seem to make sense whenever he smiles. Who will the fourth be? Certainly not PerfectMan, or any of the other OZ tosses. Will Jaedong be bringing his 'buddy' along? Are we all going to be homo for Lomo? OZ may not be a team with much depth, but the players that it fields can definitely hold the fort.
Set 1: Polaris Rhapsody One of the new maps this season, with only two games played on it so far, and those two have been in Dream League. 1-1 PvT, with not much other stuff in it. I do think this map looks reasonably balanced for all races. I'm calling Kal for STX and Killer for OZ, and if this happens I'll call for Killer to win. Set 2: Roadrunner Statistically, Terrans have an advantage on this map. Therefore, I'm thinking HiyA for OZ, or perhaps LomoLomo. For STX, I'm calling for Hwasin. Hwasin takes the win? Set 3: Fighting Spirit Jaedong for here. Shuttle for STX. Jaedong for the win. Set 4: Grand Line I think we'll be seeing Calm here, and Lomo for OZ. Lomo's not the best player ever, but Calm has also been failing recently vT. Lomo takes the match.
STX SouL 1-3 Hwaseung OZ I think OZ has a good chance with this format.
If I get even one of these calls correct I'll be laughing.
On April 10 2010 05:27 NeoOmega wrote: Oz has to go back to using a protoss in every match. What are they like 1-20 now? Their only win came from Perfectman in week 1 -.-
No they don't. That rule enforcing every race represented on the lineup was removed for this round of SPL. See here.
STX SouL vs Hwaseung OZ - predicting who they'll send out, plexa was right, this is fun
Kal <Polaris Rhapsody> Killer - looks like a decent toss map in any mu, oz won't want to be jaedong-less too early and killer has been performing well, think he gets sent to snipe
Shuttle <Roadrunner> HiyA - Hiya is a safe choice here since he can win on any mu on this map, STX should realize this and send Shuttle who's been practicing against Hiya anyway. Shuttle should be told ahead of time so he can prepare a build, Hiya will have to think of one on the spot to not give away his MSL build.
Calm <Grand Line> Lomo - there's potential for an Andromeda-style 3 hatch lurker opening taking the min only with the third hatch. If it gets to late game Lomo should be able to siege up on the high ground and win. Another possibility is attacking the Terran army with mutas using the cliffs in the center after doing worker harass.
Kal <Judgment Day> HiyA - not the greatest map for Z, plus OZ used Hiya as ace a lot in Round 2. Should be a long game like most PvTs on this map
On April 10 2010 08:49 jalstar wrote: STX SouL vs Hwaseung OZ - predicting who they'll send out, plexa was right, this is fun
Kal <Polaris Rhapsody> Killer - looks like a decent toss map in any mu, oz won't want to be jaedong-less too early and killer has been performing well, think he gets sent to snipe
Shuttle <Roadrunner> HiyA - Hiya is a safe choice here since he can win on any mu on this map, STX should realize this and send Shuttle who's been practicing against Hiya anyway. Shuttle should be told ahead of time so he can prepare a build, Hiya will have to think of one on the spot to not give away his MSL build.
Calm <Grand Line> Lomo - there's potential for an Andromeda-style 3 hatch lurker opening taking the min only with the third hatch. If it gets to late game Lomo should be able to siege up on the high ground and win. Another possibility is attacking the Terran army with mutas using the cliffs in the center after doing worker harass.
Kal <Judgment Day> HiyA - not the greatest map for Z, plus OZ used Hiya as ace a lot in Round 2. Should be a long game like most PvTs on this map
As confused and sad as Calm's ZvT is looking these days, I'm not sure if Lomo's seen less action in the Oz Lineup or since Jaedong got enteretis. EXPECT THE RETURN OF BACKHO!
I just realized... predictions are almost never going to be right now. Someone should get some kind of medal if they even predict all the right players to come out...
On April 10 2010 11:14 Confuse wrote: I just realized... predictions are almost never going to be right now. Someone should get some kind of medal if they even predict all the right players to come out...
I'm going to try! I want a cookie at least even if I'm wrong
On April 10 2010 11:32 Jubinell wrote: I'm confused...is this the new proleague? The old one ended with KT crowned champion?
Not a "new proleague" so to speak, just another round of it. Winners league was round 3 and this is round 4, which has a few new nuances, such as no race restriction and no pre-arranged lineups, but is the same in every other aspect.
On April 10 2010 13:10 ForTenPoints wrote: Wait so do the players not know who they are playing til the match either? Or are jsut the fans in the dark?
yes even players don't know who they're facing until the opponents are sent out
On April 10 2010 13:10 ForTenPoints wrote: Wait so do the players not know who they are playing til the match either? Or are jsut the fans in the dark?
yes even players don't know who they're facing until the opponents are sent out
like pokemon
Only if the battle mode is on Set mode. Err, or was it shift... No I think Shift said "blah blah is about to send out..." ... Do I have the switched?
On April 10 2010 13:22 MountainDewJunkie wrote: So, I'm starting to wonder if Calm can beat any terran anymore, other than ACE terrans... I know the game isn't over yet, but
Calm without specific practice isn't that good imo. And this season that's going to be quite a weak point.
On April 10 2010 13:23 Scaramanga wrote: Hey flamewheel just a suggestion, you could update the op to show the players as they are revealed instead of the team pictures
It's in the results. This way it doesn't spoil, say, if OZ 3-0s and I only show three pictures. Even without knowing who won, you already know that's a 3-0 victory for one team.
On April 10 2010 13:23 Scaramanga wrote: Hey flamewheel just a suggestion, you could update the op to show the players as they are revealed instead of the team pictures
It's in the results. This way it doesn't spoil, say, if OZ 3-0s and I only show three pictures. Even without knowing who won, you already know that's a 3-0 victory for one team.
my god calm played like trash; it was sort of smart expanding so much, but he should have protected the small choke guarding the bottom left corner expansion and taken the other expansion at 3oclock with the narrow choke as well. mutas dont seem too good as the base distances are just absurdly far apart.
im curious the unveiling of teh next match. do teams know who teh other team is putting out and only the viewers are surprised or both teams and viewers in teh dark?
On April 10 2010 13:29 iamho wrote: wtf just happened? like some c+ player noob crushing an even worse d- noob
hows hiya's tvz C+ noob?
lose 30 marines in 5 separate instances to stop lurkers. actually some of those werent stop lurks, he just ran shit into burrowed lurks do die. maybe not C+, but it was baad
On April 10 2010 13:29 iamho wrote: wtf just happened? like some c+ player noob crushing an even worse d- noob
hows hiya's tvz C+ noob?
lose 30 marines in 5 separate instances to stop lurkers. actually some of those werent stop lurks, he just ran shit into burrowed lurks do die. maybe not C+, but it was baad
Well, apart from running the marines into lurkers across his own bridge, the other incidents were expected if you consider the map which has a lot of entrances. HiyA thus sent out a lot of small groups of marines here and there to exploit those entrances before vessels, so running into lurkers is expected some of the time, especially if you consider how effective his guerilla tactics were.
Bogus' third about to get swarmed while his forces probe Killer's base; but he attacks Killer's nat at the same time! Loses most of his mnm, but Killer fails to micro the attack at the third and loses all his lings.
On April 10 2010 14:04 QuothTheRaven wrote: Wait, why valks vs. ultraling?
I assume they're to kill overlords and prevent drop play (which they just failed to do)... there's not much chance of the Zerg switching back to air this late in the game, is there?
3/1 mech upgrades finished for terran. He's got a decent number of vessels and goliaths, so he should be able to handle the guardians without that much trouble (we'll see though).
Killer going in for a drop with his guardians, but Bogus just has too much and he fights it off.
I did always wonder why Zerg didn't bulldog against mech T very much. Turns out there isn't really a reason, because dirt-cheap shuttles are GREAT for bombing.
Next development in ZvT should be use of burrowed Zerglings under swarm. Unlike lurkers, they can't be removed with irradiate spamming.
On April 10 2010 14:25 snowdrift86 wrote: I'm rooting for STX, but Bogus should have the decency to at least move out with his tanks and set up a nice GG timing.
Yeah this has just gone on for too long... 6:00 about to be mined out for Killer.
... Killer is retarded. Lets send in ground forces, THEN drop his army, THEN plague, THEN send in hydras. why would i do all off the above at the same time?
Bogus hasn't been playing mediocre though, save losing vessels, which is like his trademark. Even lategame he's doing all sorts of cute tricks like medic walls and defense matrixing already-plagued vessels :D
On April 10 2010 14:30 Turbovolver wrote: Bogus hasn't been playing mediocre though, save losing vessels, which is like his trademark. Even lategame he's doing all sorts of cute tricks like medic walls and defense matrixing already-plagued vessels :D
Thanks for the FPL points Bogus <3
except Bogus should have lost the game 30min ago, but survived thanks to turtle terran
I hate both players so much.... Killer for not being able to do anything effective for the whole match even when he had more bases and map control.... and Bogus for turtling like a F**** tortoise ZZZZ
On April 10 2010 14:30 Turbovolver wrote: Bogus hasn't been playing mediocre though, save losing vessels, which is like his trademark. Even lategame he's doing all sorts of cute tricks like medic walls and defense matrixing already-plagued vessels :D
Thanks for the FPL points Bogus <3
That stuff is easy to do when you don't have to worry about your army, save pressing O.
On April 10 2010 14:30 thopol wrote: That was such an awesome game. Great play by both guys IMO. I've never felt like a fan of Bogus until now.
wat
Well obviously they weren't playing perfectly after a while. Still there were lots of clutch plays, some flashy tricks and some just solid play. Of course there were errors in such a long game.
I also just like seeing that strategy used. I haven't seen Zergs respond to it with such aggressive dropping and shipping in the meat, so I liked that aspect of it too.
This style of TvZ has matured enough that mediocre players can pull it off now. Next step will be Bogus and Terrans of similar ability beating JD/Zero-level Zergs.
On April 10 2010 14:34 Avidkeystamper wrote: I do recall saying that I've never really disliked a player. I'm going to have to reconsider that statement.
it's all flash's fault thoguh for starting this shit>_< tvz used to be super awesome.
i mean i love flash for everything else but this . ffffffffffff
On April 10 2010 14:35 snowdrift86 wrote: This style of TvZ has matured enough that mediocre players can pull it off. Next step will be Bogus and the like beating JD/Zero level Zergs.
It's a very good strategy, as Flash and others proved on destination. It's just picking up some popularity now though because it's a transition that does a good job against defilers and ultras. That was by no means an execution of that strat that anyone could pull off. Bogus delayed the Zerg 4th gas for a long time which gave him the window of time he needed to put down all the factories. That aggressive play is also what let him get his 4th down in the first place. It was a well played game.
I love how everyone says it's gayness to build tanks in lategame, as if mech doesn't also do that. Zergs need to adapt instead of just blindly dropping and continuing to waste all their gas on ultralisks. Killer tried with guardians, which was interesting, and Bogus showed the foresight to build valks.
Unfortunately he underestimated Killer's ability to refuse to adapt for like 5min, by which time the valks were gone.
The only part of the last 20minutes of that game that I enjoyed was the fpviews where it shows bogus place a depot and look at his tanks a bit and then switches over to Killer who's still playing at a head exploding 400 apm
On April 10 2010 14:41 Turbovolver wrote: I love how everyone says it's gayness to build tanks in lategame, as if mech doesn't also do that. Zergs need to adapt instead of just blindly dropping and continuing to waste all their gas on ultralisks. Killer tried with guardians, which was interesting, and Bogus showed the foresight to build valks.
Unfortunately he underestimated Killer's ability to refuse to adapt for like 5min, by which time the valks were gone.
Got any smart ideas for killer to try? With 5 comsats Killer isnt gonna be able to sneak anything. He tried guards and drops. Do you want him to mass hydra against mass tank?
On April 10 2010 14:41 Turbovolver wrote: I love how everyone says it's gayness to build tanks in lategame, as if mech doesn't also do that. Zergs need to adapt instead of just blindly dropping and continuing to waste all their gas on ultralisks. Killer tried with guardians, which was interesting, and Bogus showed the foresight to build valks.
Unfortunately he underestimated Killer's ability to refuse to adapt for like 5min, by which time the valks were gone.
Yeah
Switching to mech in lategame is pretty normal, considering tanks annihilate ultras and you can just turtled up and starve the zerg out. Bogus assumed Killer would adapt to the mech transition by making things that are standard to fight against mech, aka hydras/mutas, but instead he just kept going ultraling which isn't good at all vs tank/gol/vult.
Killer, like a lot of zergs, for some reason kept going ultraling even when bogus had entirely tank/goliath/vulture. Do you go ultraling against a regular meching player? No cause it sucks. It was Killer's fault for taking so long to adapt and throwing thousands of gas worth of ultras at Bogus's tanks.
On April 10 2010 14:44 NeoOmega wrote:Got any smart ideas for killer to try? With 5 comsats Killer isnt gonna be able to sneak anything. He tried guards and drops. Do you want him to mass hydra against mass tank?
I don't honestly know what is best, I'm not going to pretend to be smarter than progamers.
But if mass tanks was so imba, any game where terran goes mech would play out exactly the same way? Do they? No, not so much.
It's a huuuuuge tech switch and if zergs refuse to also tech switch what do they really expect?
On April 10 2010 14:42 n.DieJokes wrote: The only part of the last 20minutes of that game that I enjoyed was the fpviews where it shows bogus place a depot and look at his tanks a bit and then switches over to Killer who's still playing at a head exploding 400 apm
On April 10 2010 14:44 NeoOmega wrote:Got any smart ideas for killer to try? With 5 comsats Killer isnt gonna be able to sneak anything. He tried guards and drops. Do you want him to mass hydra against mass tank?
I don't honestly know what is best, I'm not going to pretend to be smarter than progamers.
But if mass tanks was so imba, any game where terran goes mech would play out exactly the same way? Do they? No, not so much.
It's a huuuuuge tech switch and if zergs refuse to also tech switch what do they really expect?
Going straight mech is weaker than mnm to mech switch, because mnm gives you map control and makes you able to get bases, mech doesn't.
Mech was imba till zergs found a timing where mech is vulnerable, now terran eliminated that timing window.
Hmm Kal suiciding into mines a bit. Careless. He's at Lomo's nat again. GG. Oh Lomo you fail. So next I'm at a quandary. Jaedong will definitely be out. But who will he play? Shuttle? Shuttle's on my FPL. But JD is my favourite.
Lomo cannot pick up the many hints from Kal telling him he wants to lose like losing at least a dozen goons to mines and instead fails. Oh well I'm happy still.
On April 10 2010 14:41 Turbovolver wrote: I love how everyone says it's gayness to build tanks in lategame, as if mech doesn't also do that. Zergs need to adapt instead of just blindly dropping and continuing to waste all their gas on ultralisks. Killer tried with guardians, which was interesting, and Bogus showed the foresight to build valks.
Unfortunately he underestimated Killer's ability to refuse to adapt for like 5min, by which time the valks were gone.
Got any smart ideas for killer to try? With 5 comsats Killer isnt gonna be able to sneak anything. He tried guards and drops. Do you want him to mass hydra against mass tank?
should have used guards to weaken bogus' defence in main, and dropped there, where all bogus' units are made
On April 10 2010 14:57 Itachii wrote: JD vs Shuttle would be damn sexy match
and a crazy pick from STX
You're aware that shuttle has a pretty damn good PvZ, yes? Not so crazy, imo.| Yes I'm aware of Jaedong's vP... Eh... but there's no reason to send by.hero, who sucks now.
On April 10 2010 14:57 Itachii wrote: JD vs Shuttle would be damn sexy match
and a crazy pick from STX
You're aware that shuttle has a pretty damn good PvZ, yes? Not so crazy, imo.| Yes I'm aware of Jaedong's vP... Eh... but there's no reason to send by.hero, who sucks now.
STX has Hwasin (T imba atm, JD weak vs T) and Modesty (JD shaky in ZvZ).
Why should they send out Shuttle (good PvZ against JD S-class ZvP)?
On April 10 2010 14:57 Itachii wrote: JD vs Shuttle would be damn sexy match
and a crazy pick from STX
You're aware that shuttle has a pretty damn good PvZ, yes? Not so crazy, imo.| Yes I'm aware of Jaedong's vP... Eh... but there's no reason to send by.hero, who sucks now.
STX has Hwasin (T imba atm, JD weak vs T) and Modesty (JD shaky in ZvZ).
Why should they send out Shuttle (good PvZ against JD S-class ZvP)?
You make good points, but I have no faith in Hwasin, who can't seem to beat anyone good these days.
On April 10 2010 14:57 Itachii wrote: JD vs Shuttle would be damn sexy match
and a crazy pick from STX
You're aware that shuttle has a pretty damn good PvZ, yes? Not so crazy, imo.| Yes I'm aware of Jaedong's vP... Eh... but there's no reason to send by.hero, who sucks now.
STX has Hwasin (T imba atm, JD weak vs T) and Modesty (JD shaky in ZvZ).
Why should they send out Shuttle (good PvZ against JD S-class ZvP)?
you generalize too much dude. how "t imba atm JD weak vs T" makes any sense when we are talking about hwasin who might fuck up like he usually does jd is expected to be sent out, and shuttle would be pretty good counter to it actually imo
On April 10 2010 15:04 Angra wrote: I'm guessing STX will send out Shuttle, but I'm hoping for Hwasin. They don't seem to be sending him out ever lately though.
Maybe since he's in both individual leagues they'll have a little more faith in him. Then again, older players tend to get lots of practice for their individual leagues and few proleague appearances.
omggg such a crucial micro mistake why did he send his 6ish drones out vs 8 =.= and then sent his drones back before he had more lings to secure defence.. ffffffffuuuuuuuu
Hum, i know this is not the correct thread to ask this, but i have a problem with the stream, it doesn't charge for me, i f5, restarted firefox and the pc, tried to open with ie and chrome, but nothing work. It's funny, because yesterday i streamed sc without problems, but today not seem to work.
On April 10 2010 15:16 dukethegold wrote: Goddamn it. Jaedong is failing, Bisu is failing, Stork is failing, all the star powers in this game is going to hell.
dear flamewheel91: i think you did understand the format wrong. the players are set before the matches, kespa already knows who is coming! its only the players themselves (and us) who dont know, to minimize the chance of sniping builds. STX just read OZ perfectly.
Heh preety obvious if Shuttle played today this would been perfect FPL day . Im sad that JD is failing so bad looks like i need to change my favorite and 2nd favorite zerg places Zero > JD ezz !
This format seems to be confusing a lot of people. STX and Hwaseung decided their lineups before the match ever started. It was only revealed during the match.
On April 10 2010 18:17 Heimatloser wrote: dear flamewheel91: i think you did understand the format wrong. the players are set before the matches, kespa already knows who is coming! its only the players themselves (and us) who dont know, to minimize the chance of sniping builds. STX just read OZ perfectly.
I think you are wrong on this one.
On April 11 2010 04:31 moopie wrote: I still think they are chosen on the spot, like in WL, as opposed to being picked ahead of time and submitted as a list (though not finding out who their opponent is until the match begins). Bogus said in his interview that he was not expecting to be sent out. That implies that he was chosen on the spot "WL-style". If a list was submitted, even without knowing who he would play, the coach wouldn't submit him and not tell him about it.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/keit/plNamdaemun.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/5.jpg)
vs.![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/11.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/flamewheel91/JudgmentDay.jpg?t=1270863788)
Calm tonight, or will his devilish double, Clam, appear? After missing out on the SWL playoff match against Woongjin Stars, is 
Hwasin the Red Sniper back in action? Will 
Kal come out to play? Or will his mediocre performance in the individual leagues leave him superseded by the ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/76.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/205.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/663.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/558.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/84.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/208.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/556.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/211.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/thumb/2/27/Gyarados_Hyper_Beam.png/210px-Gyarados_Hyper_Beam.png)
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