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[SWL] KT Rolster vs Woongjin Stars - Page 49

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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mmdmmd
Profile Joined June 2007
722 Posts
March 01 2010 22:29 GMT
#961
On March 02 2010 04:57 Fx_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2010 03:19 Tragic wrote:
On March 01 2010 22:06 Etopen wrote:
wow to everyone exaggerating about Kwanro economy, you guys should reread the thread since flash and kwanro begins. Flash had his 3rd setup when kwanro was getting a 4th and also killed kwanro's 4th hatch with vultures, even if your memory isn't good then the thread could be a reference.



The "Hatchery Constrained Rule": Economy is constrained by hatcheries, not by minerals. Kwanro was 'decently' ahead through early-mid game. Losing the two valkyries, forcing Flash to transfer all the scv’s, putting the T back on 1 base mineral and GAS. The reason why GAS is a huge factor in this situation is because of how Flash chose to spend his initial gas=2 valkyries which killed 1 ovie, thus delaying science vessel production, upgrades, etc etc etc… and realistically making tech (mech) switching harder to pull off. Here I will not even consider the units Flash lost in the process. Now ask yourself was Kwanro ahead? At their programming level, the Zerg at a pretty GOOD favor, and shortly after the lurkers died off we already see hive finishing and the defiler mount building, and not a single science vessel yet. I even question if the science facility was even done, didn’t notice it during the game.

Do not be blinded, just because he’s Flash, Kwanro should have had the game in the bag. Flash won, mainly because of Kwanro bad unit composition, suiciding units to mines, and unsaturated bases, and being overly aggressive.

Another thing that was ridiculously stupid was people saying that if Kwanro tech switched, it wouldn’t matter because “if Flash saw mutas, within 1 minute Flash would have had 900 Goliaths and just anal rape Kwanro”. The reason why this logic is so utterly retarded is because first off Muta’s are one the key units in beating Mech. In this situation, there was a WINDOW, where if Kwanro tech switched, it would have done decent damage to Flash. Last time I checked, tanks and vultures do not do damage to Mutas. With proper muta control, Flash’s army will be trimmed down, forcing Flash to move back and more turrets, + giving Kwanro more map control before Flash goliath’s count mass up.

In SC, you constantly make units that counter to your opponents units. Let’s put the previously retarded logic into play. I’m playing Terran, and I see 24 lings coming right into my base. (Lets just consider unit composition, no time for bunker or scv block or w.e.) I DO NOT want to make firebats because I know mutas will be coming shortly. Another example is, I’m playing Protoss, and I see lurkers, I do not want to make dragoons because ‘within 1 minute’ I’ll be anal raped by a group of hydra’s and lings.

so many words.
so little sense.


so little words.
so much sense.
mmdmmd
Profile Joined June 2007
722 Posts
March 01 2010 22:31 GMT
#962
On March 02 2010 05:55 anch wrote:
lol, the Chinese commentator kept saying every ZvT vs Flash should just give up and switch to SC2.


He is a funny guy. I like him.
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
March 01 2010 23:42 GMT
#963
On March 02 2010 06:13 dl2agon wrote:
Kwanro should have made mutalisk after seeing a tank and vulture only army. Even if flash can get goliaths easily, the mutalisks still could have done surprise damage. Its way more effective than Ultralisks vs spider mines.


Yeah the point vs mech is to abuse immobility, not run endless units into their lines. Mutas can move back and forth between the bases, outrun goliaths very effectively.
.risingdragoon
Profile Joined January 2008
United States3021 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-01 23:53:47
March 01 2010 23:48 GMT
#964
kwanro played the way he played cus he was waaaay ahead

dropping ultras on tanks in mine field totally works if flash hadn't controlled his tanks so well

only problem is flash controlled his tanks too fkin well
......::::........::::........::::........::::........::::.......::::.......::::... Up☆MaGiC ...::::.......::::.......::::........::::........::::........::::........
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
March 01 2010 23:50 GMT
#965
[image loading]


Flash EZPZ face expression.
Tragic
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada8 Posts
March 01 2010 23:59 GMT
#966
@Etopen Go to liquipedia or the search function on how to beat mech + listen to day[9]/ahzz. Cause i don't think you know the weakness in mech is...

Main point is Kwanro threw away a game he should of won, totally wrong unit composition, and eating mines like shit + overly aggressive.

LOL @ the minesweeper pic.
J1.au
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia3596 Posts
March 02 2010 00:30 GMT
#967
It's funny how people always seem to "throw away" games against Flash. Hmm, I wonder what it could mean.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 00:45:14
March 02 2010 00:44 GMT
#968
It means that people get huge advantages that they, in any normal scenario, are guaranteed to win, and then piss away their advantage and underestimate Flash's capability to make game changing decisions in an almost rapid-fire like fashion. Flash's in-game adaptability is the best there's ever been so he has a particularly high rate of comebacks.

The thing is, it is always at the slight faults of the opponent. It is not a display of Flash's perfection so much as his ability to catch small advantages in high numbers, despite taking a single, enormous disadvantage.

Also, map helped. Pretty nice to be able to tank push a high ground and snipe expansions that way, on a map with several small passageways that make vulture runbys effective but make engaging a terran ball suicide thanks to splash.

Really, it's a cacophony of things
Remember Violet.
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
March 02 2010 01:21 GMT
#969
On March 02 2010 09:30 J1.au wrote:
It's funny how people always seem to "throw away" games against Flash. Hmm, I wonder what it could mean.

It means that unless you're Jaedong or Stork, you should all-in every single game and GG if it goes longer than 12 minutes. Even when it looks like Flash is losing, he's actually winning.
May the BeSt man win.
poptartazn
Profile Joined October 2009
United States84 Posts
March 02 2010 02:32 GMT
#970
Muta switch, no up muta vs upped mech, where gols are easily spam massed? At least ultras still kill stuff while they die miserable deaths, a muta switch would have done little to nothing.
STYLE START SBENU~
Tragic
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada8 Posts
March 02 2010 02:50 GMT
#971
On March 02 2010 10:21 Djabanete wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2010 09:30 J1.au wrote:
It's funny how people always seem to "throw away" games against Flash. Hmm, I wonder what it could mean.

It means that unless you're Jaedong or Stork, you should all-in every single game and GG if it goes longer than 12 minutes. Even when it looks like Flash is losing, he's actually winning.

LOL. I say 4 pool him every game. The zergs got this.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
March 02 2010 03:00 GMT
#972
Hey what if you fake Muta switch but then you are actually massing up with Hydra, Zergling army? Those Goliath would go to waste.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Vasoline73
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States8202 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 03:30:24
March 02 2010 03:29 GMT
#973
On March 02 2010 12:00 Xiphos wrote:
Hey what if you fake Muta switch but then you are actually massing up with Hydra, Zergling army? Those Goliath would go to waste.

What if he double faked thinking Flash would predict the fake but really Flash already made golaiths so the fake fake muta switch wouldn't be that effective?
sharkeyanti
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States1273 Posts
March 02 2010 06:22 GMT
#974
Disregard the fact that mutas would have been the fairly obvious choice by say.. the 12 minute mark. What about no zerglings for like 20 minutes? Seriously what is wong with Kwanro?? He does know how much damage mines do I hope? This game just makes you wonder about the mystery of Kwanro more and more.,,
Hi Mom
jonich0n
Profile Joined February 2009
United States1982 Posts
March 02 2010 07:48 GMT
#975
On March 02 2010 12:29 Vasoline73 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2010 12:00 Xiphos wrote:
Hey what if you fake Muta switch but then you are actually massing up with Hydra, Zergling army? Those Goliath would go to waste.

What if he double faked thinking Flash would predict the fake but really Flash already made golaiths so the fake fake muta switch wouldn't be that effective?

Oh totally, a decent player like Jaedong would have predicted that Flash would have predicted the fake fake muta switch and would have triple-faked and then proceeded to destroy Flash, unlike that stupid newbie Kwanro.

(>'.')>
Scaramanga
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Australia8093 Posts
March 02 2010 08:34 GMT
#976
On March 01 2010 22:06 Etopen wrote:
wow to everyone exaggerating about Kwanro economy, you guys should reread the thread since flash and kwanro begins. Flash had his 3rd setup when kwanro was getting a 4th and also killed kwanro's 4th hatch with vultures, even if your memory isn't good then the thread could be a reference.

Oh so when your on 3 bases you can totally pump out 60 ultras ^^
Loda talked about the fun counter, it's AdmiralBulldog on his natures prophet
JoepMeloen
Profile Joined July 2009
Netherlands27 Posts
March 02 2010 14:27 GMT
#977
What did the revealed note say after the -Luxury vs. Kwanro- match?
Me. Melon. Melons are on sale! Get your own, fresh, juicy melon this instant!
Jonten
Profile Joined April 2009
Sweden5 Posts
March 02 2010 15:19 GMT
#978
On March 02 2010 09:44 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It means that people get huge advantages that they, in any normal scenario, are guaranteed to win, and then piss away their advantage and underestimate Flash's capability to make game changing decisions in an almost rapid-fire like fashion. Flash's in-game adaptability is the best there's ever been so he has a particularly high rate of comebacks.

The thing is, it is always at the slight faults of the opponent. It is not a display of Flash's perfection so much as his ability to catch small advantages in high numbers, despite taking a single, enormous disadvantage.

Also, map helped. Pretty nice to be able to tank push a high ground and snipe expansions that way, on a map with several small passageways that make vulture runbys effective but make engaging a terran ball suicide thanks to splash.

Really, it's a cacophony of things


But no1 can play perfect. There is always mistakes in the games, and from my experience mistakes end games just as much as a good play does. Flash is good, better then many others, in taking advantage of the mistakes that other players do. As you said. In a way, however, i think it's a display of perfection to take advantage of all the opponents mistakes.
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
March 02 2010 21:05 GMT
#979
On March 02 2010 17:34 Scaramanga wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2010 22:06 Etopen wrote:
wow to everyone exaggerating about Kwanro economy, you guys should reread the thread since flash and kwanro begins. Flash had his 3rd setup when kwanro was getting a 4th and also killed kwanro's 4th hatch with vultures, even if your memory isn't good then the thread could be a reference.

Oh so when your on 3 bases you can totally pump out 60 ultras ^^


Lies! That's over 200 supply
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
March 02 2010 22:07 GMT
#980
Am I crazy or did Flash just get 0 ELO points for beating Kwanro (game has already been updated in Flash's gamelist).
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