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[MSL] Semi Finals #1 - Page 53

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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nozaro33
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Taiwan1819 Posts
January 14 2010 16:46 GMT
#1041
lol I was surprised at how short this Bo5 was
#1 Flash / #2 NaDa / #3 Stats fan / KT fan for life
Bwenjarin Raffrack
Profile Joined November 2008
United States322 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-14 16:51:02
January 14 2010 16:48 GMT
#1042
On January 15 2010 01:42 Zozma wrote:
This is what happens when Kwanro morphs a lair. It's all downhill from there.


Seriously. Was no one else absolutely shocked that Kwanro rushed to HIVE twice?!

Edit: More unnecessary punctuation to express sheer disbelief.
I'm not as thunk as dreople pink I am.
Draconizard
Profile Joined October 2008
628 Posts
January 14 2010 16:50 GMT
#1043
What a disappointing series; I expected better from Kwanro.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
January 14 2010 17:07 GMT
#1044
Amazing. People flame Kwanro for playing an early-mid game micro oriented ZvT and when he plays a macro stlye he also gets flamed.

Poor guy v_v
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Zozma
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1626 Posts
January 14 2010 17:43 GMT
#1045
On January 15 2010 02:07 Ace wrote:
Amazing. People flame Kwanro for playing an early-mid game micro oriented ZvT and when he plays a macro stlye he also gets flamed.

Poor guy v_v
Although to be fair it's probably two different groups of people.
Romantic
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1844 Posts
January 14 2010 17:58 GMT
#1046
Did Kwanro forget that Terrans have scans and can tell he is going for Guardians? That is why it doesn't work. Unless you put a hatchery in the middle of the map and build the spire there (and get lucky as hell), Guardians won't work.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
January 14 2010 18:00 GMT
#1047
On January 15 2010 01:50 Draconizard wrote:
What a disappointing series; I expected better from Kwanro.


He pretty much met my expectations.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-14 18:31:31
January 14 2010 18:07 GMT
#1048
Kwanro didn't play a macro style game in game 1 and 4 though. He wasn't going for the Crazy Zerg variant where you get guardians to defend while you're prepping up for ultras... he just went pure muta into fast hive for guardians, kinda like how it was popular to play on Blue Storm. It's pretty clear that he had no intentions on getting into a long management game with Flash and was trying to end the game with mutas and guardians.

On January 15 2010 02:58 Romantic wrote:
Did Kwanro forget that Terrans have scans and can tell he is going for Guardians? That is why it doesn't work. Unless you put a hatchery in the middle of the map and build the spire there (and get lucky as hell), Guardians won't work.

lol no
Kyuukyuu
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada6263 Posts
January 14 2010 18:15 GMT
#1049
lol this was so terrible
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
January 14 2010 18:34 GMT
#1050
On January 14 2010 23:14 Black Gun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2010 23:05 d(O.o)a wrote:
On January 14 2010 21:29 Womwomwom wrote:
On January 14 2010 21:10 iMarshall wrote:
On January 14 2010 21:06 SubtleArt wrote:
Lol @ everyone who was arguing Kwanro had a legit chance.


I don't remember the details of the games, but he did knock Flash out of the last MSL with a 2-1 win in ro16. Of course, Flash wasn't running over every opponent at the time, the way he does now, but it still gave Kwanro a small shot in my opinion. I was hoping for more all-ins from Kwanro, though.


The details were everything. If I remember correctly, that period was during the strange time that Flash was the greediest player in the proscene and would constantly skimp on turrets and units during the early game and would often go 14CC and die to stuff like 9 pool. If I remember right, that's pretty much how he lost set 3 of that series.

I think Flash is still cutting it close with the timings for certain things but he's definitely building lots of turrets and isn't really going 14CC constantly and getting mauled by aggressive builds.

Of course I thought Kwanro would give Flash a decent fight, due to his aggressiveness, but he chose to do two sets of guardian builds, which I cannot ever remember working against Flash.





a game from 08. very decisive evidence.


Of course I thought Kwanro would give Flash a decent fight, due to his aggressiveness, but he chose to do two sets of guardian builds, which I cannot ever remember working against Flash.


but he chose to do two sets of guardian builds, which I cannot ever remember working against Flash.


guardian builds, which I cannot ever remember working against Flash.
Hi.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
January 14 2010 18:44 GMT
#1051
On January 14 2010 17:38 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
3 different types of progamers

1. Mastering builds. Players like Flash, Jaedong, Savior, Bisu and the kind belongs here. Mastered one good build (aka 3 hatch muta, Flash TvP etc), weakness: When new builds comes from 2. progamers these are players who suffers.

2. Creative counter builds. Players like Fantasy, Calm etc. Sometimes makes good builds against dominating builds from 1. progamers (Fantasys vulture play). Weakness: Finding that surprise build that gives them enough time to get far leagues before counter gets made (sometimes it gets many tries/loses to get proper build).

3. Aggressive builds. Players like Kwanro and such. They are at best when 1. and 2. Are fighting to get proper counters to their builds. Abuses build order holes. Weakness: Solid play from 1. progamers should beat these guys.

Wonder if Flash plays newly experimented Fantasys late mass vulture switch which he played vs Zero. If he does Kwanro is going to win.

I love how Flash switched to Aggressive builds to totally throw Kwanro off. Mindgame!
Creationism
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
China505 Posts
January 14 2010 19:00 GMT
#1052
So apparently, and you guys will see this when the translation comes out in English, Flash had planned a triple bunker rush like Boxer. The reason he didn't do it the first game was because of the positioning. Imagine how hard people would have raged if he triple bunker rushed lol.
The hoi polloi is the plague upon the world.
Zozma
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1626 Posts
January 14 2010 19:37 GMT
#1053
On January 15 2010 03:44 0neder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2010 17:38 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
3 different types of progamers

1. Mastering builds. Players like Flash, Jaedong, Savior, Bisu and the kind belongs here. Mastered one good build (aka 3 hatch muta, Flash TvP etc), weakness: When new builds comes from 2. progamers these are players who suffers.

2. Creative counter builds. Players like Fantasy, Calm etc. Sometimes makes good builds against dominating builds from 1. progamers (Fantasys vulture play). Weakness: Finding that surprise build that gives them enough time to get far leagues before counter gets made (sometimes it gets many tries/loses to get proper build).

3. Aggressive builds. Players like Kwanro and such. They are at best when 1. and 2. Are fighting to get proper counters to their builds. Abuses build order holes. Weakness: Solid play from 1. progamers should beat these guys.

Wonder if Flash plays newly experimented Fantasys late mass vulture switch which he played vs Zero. If he does Kwanro is going to win.

I love how Flash switched to Aggressive builds to totally throw Kwanro off. Mindgame!
He just didn't want to practice too hard for the MSL. Like it says in his interview.
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17743 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-14 19:50:33
January 14 2010 19:47 GMT
#1054
On January 14 2010 17:38 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
3 different types of progamers

1. Mastering builds. Players like Flash, Jaedong, Savior, Bisu and the kind belongs here. Mastered one good build (aka 3 hatch muta, Flash TvP etc), weakness: When new builds comes from 2. progamers these are players who suffers.

2. Creative counter builds. Players like Fantasy, Calm etc. Sometimes makes good builds against dominating builds from 1. progamers (Fantasys vulture play). Weakness: Finding that surprise build that gives them enough time to get far leagues before counter gets made (sometimes it gets many tries/loses to get proper build).

3. Aggressive builds. Players like Kwanro and such. They are at best when 1. and 2. Are fighting to get proper counters to their builds. Abuses build order holes. Weakness: Solid play from 1. progamers should beat these guys.

Wonder if Flash plays newly experimented Fantasys late mass vulture switch which he played vs Zero. If he does Kwanro is going to win.

1. is actually more fantasy i think. When fantasy went through his tvp streak he did the same build every game. I think 1 should not be mastering builds but people who adapt to their opponent. For example the difference between a player like let say fantasy,rock and someone like flash is that. When fantasy and rock prepare a special build for a particular map they do that build no matter what they see from their opponent. I remember reading of july vs rock I didnt actually see it but read that rock prepared a 1 gate reaver build and july went 2 hatch muta and rock scouted and still didnt change his build and lost. Another example is fantasy vs jaedong. Fantasy prepared a tech build for rotk but he got a position where if he walled his units would spawn on the outside. Instead of switching his build and doing a build like 1 rax fe where he doesnt have to wall in he takes a risk and just made the wall and loses to 9 pool+speed. A person like flash does tend to prefer specific flexible builds but hes a player who if he sees a zerg go 3 hatch no pool, even though he prepared lets say 1 rax fe late game, he might do a scv+rine all in and switch to 2 rax acad. He reacts to his opponents play.
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
surfinbird1
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany999 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-14 20:06:54
January 14 2010 20:05 GMT
#1055
I felt kinda ripped off. Why did Kwanro go for guards? Hasn't he seen how flash dismantled Zero when he went for guards? I know it was a different map and all, but in my mind he threw game 4 away. He had three bases mining and a fourth was morphing. Why didn't he just switch to lurkers? He could have easily gone for lurkers and then defilers like everyone else.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
Xxio
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada5565 Posts
January 14 2010 20:21 GMT
#1056
I love Jon747s anti-spoilers!
Just finished watching.
I found all games pretty intense, just because it was the semifinals. I agree the game would have been a bit more interesting if we had seen 1x science vessel or lurker but I think it's a testament to Kwanro's...um..."play style"...that the only game he won was an all-in ling and didn't even bother trying to get into the late game.
KTY
SimonB
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1088 Posts
January 14 2010 21:19 GMT
#1057
I'm almost more glad to see Kwanro lose than Flash win. It would really be a travesty of fate if he made it to two consecutive MSL finals.

IMO, the progamer with the most amount of success for such little talent and inspiration.
SubtleArt
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
2710 Posts
January 14 2010 21:21 GMT
#1058
Did Flash just say TvP is harder than TvZ? Yes, he did. No more "omg tank r liek range" and "omg vulture mine insta-nuke imbaaa" complaints plz?
Morrow on ZvP: "I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it)."
Achromic
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
773 Posts
January 14 2010 21:25 GMT
#1059
Flash is too good. Period.
Blah
Zozma
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1626 Posts
January 14 2010 21:57 GMT
#1060
On January 15 2010 06:21 SubtleArt wrote:
Did Flash just say TvP is harder than TvZ? Yes, he did. No more "omg tank r liek range" and "omg vulture mine insta-nuke imbaaa" complaints plz?
Walking and chewing gum at the same time is harder than TvZ.
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