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On December 26 2009 08:23 Scaramanga wrote:
Just gotta say all those who are pissed off at flash for cheesing mabey you should be disapointed in your oh so precious jd as he fucked up pretty badly, he saw the rines and was way to over confident, so in short its jaedongs fault that we didnt get an epic series :D
He put down two sunkens, he built lings immediately after. What on earth are you talking about, and why are you summarizing a point that took a single line to make. I'm honestly confused by every part of your post
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On December 26 2009 09:06 writer22816 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 08:34 Lebesgue wrote:On December 26 2009 08:24 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
ok
why is flash's strategy that brilliant??
8proxyrax bunkerrush is nothing new it has being used for like 8 years
it is brilliant to use it on that map because you can kill zerg's overlord?
if you play tvz on that map 10 hours a day for a whole week it should not be THAT difficult to find out that a zerg player can not hide his overlord, come on
you can argue that jaedong chose the wrong opening but flash's strategy was no brilliant at all. it might have been executed perfectly, no doubt. but it is not like that was some genius move that nobody could have come up with It was 7 rax. If it is such an easy win and easy to come up strategy why no other Terran use it? Or wait, there is the honour codex that only Flash dares to break, right? Just to clear it up it is 8 rax because OGN unit counter only shows units that were built. You'd know this if you realized that after Jaedong's overlord completed and he built two drones, he was still at 9 supply, and he built his hatchery at 11 supply.
It was a 7 rax. Just watch the VOD again guys, it is absolutely obvious. He builds 7 SCVs and then the CC stops producing. One of the first six SCVs is on its way to build the barracks while the 7th one finishes. He then saves 150 for the barracks and built the 8th SCV after the barracks.
Seriously, watch it again. I hate this kind of misinformation.
It was a VERY well planned and executed build. It was excellent.
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On December 26 2009 09:20 n.DieJokes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 08:23 Scaramanga wrote:
Just gotta say all those who are pissed off at flash for cheesing mabey you should be disapointed in your oh so precious jd as he fucked up pretty badly, he saw the rines and was way to over confident, so in short its jaedongs fault that we didnt get an epic series :D He put down two sunkens, he built lings immediately after. What on earth are you talking about, and why are you summarizing a point that took a single line to make. I'm honestly confused by every part of your post
JD could have canceled his hatchery, but that would have put him behind way too much. Maybe building a 3rd creep colony would have helped (he had enough resources for the 3rd), but that would probably leave him too little minerals to hatch sunkens. He should not have lost the scouting drone so carelessly (returning from scouting), and he should have perhaps attacked slightly later with more lings.
All in all, there wasn't much that JD could have done with a 12-hatch opening against a 7-barrack with OL snipe. It was more or less a BO loss.
edit:
I don't understand why people refuse to believe that it was a very well planned strategy (note: not all-in). From how I see it, after the OL snipe, it's
- even if 9pool
- slightly behind if 11/12 pool
- victory if hatch first (maybe not 9-hatch)
It's essentially fool-proof, and expectations show that it's a much better option than standard play.
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Okay so its settled 7 Barrack, so it must be......cheese?
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On December 26 2009 05:40 TheYango wrote:
When Flash loses 14cc to Jaedong's 9pool, it's his fault for being too greedy.
When Flash wins 7rax to Jaedong's 12 hatch, it's his fault for being too aggressive.
Exactly. A "how to post" guide for Flash haters in JDvFlash match:
Flash played defensively and won? -> fucking gay turtle much?!
Flash played ofensively and won? -> fucking lame cheesing faggot!
Flash played somewhat normal and won? -> fucking imba terran shit on fucking imba terran map!
Flash lost -> lol noob, go cry home, you got nothing on JD!
Hating Flash. A useful talent toi have.
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On December 26 2009 09:19 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 09:06 infinity2k9 wrote:On December 26 2009 08:12 Ace wrote:
Calm would probably get raped by Movie if they met in the finals. Movie's PvZ is really, really good. Wtf? People are going a bit ott about Movies PvZ. He's decent in comparison to most other toss right now but saying he would 'probably' rape Calm is ridiculous. Calm even beat him the last time they played. While stats are not everything we only need to look at his recent record to see that while his playstyle is nice it doesn't always lead to wins, while Calm has lost only 4 ZvP's in 18 matches, and 3 of those were in BO3's that he won... hes 80% overall this year. Its not even close. Stop looking at TLPD and look at the games. Who has better PvZ than Movie besides Bisu and maybe Kal when he feels like it?
Uh Stork for a start is definitely better. I do watch the games thanks and i see Movie winning from clever early timing attacks/builds a lot, but that's not always going to work. If hes that good he wouldn't drop straight up games to people like Killer. Beating a slumping Zer0 isn't going to convince me his PvZ is anything special yet. Game 1 was lost by Zer0's inability to snipe a Shuttle and a horrible horrible flank into the center of HBR, and in the second game it was all over straight after that early push to Zer0's 3rd, so i'm failing to see what was particularly impressive about it.
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On December 26 2009 09:29 Xiphos wrote:
Okay so its settled 7 Barrack, so it must be......cheese?
Normally, yes; but with a guaranteed OL kill, then no.
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On December 26 2009 09:35 Cambium wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 09:29 Xiphos wrote:
Okay so its settled 7 Barrack, so it must be......cheese? Normally, yes; but with a guaranteed OL kill, then no.
this.
Guarateed ol kill =
autowin vs 12hatch
standard vs 9pool
4pool might be tricky...
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How about guys, lets just hope that Calm and Movie wins their games so we can see a PvZ finals? I don't mind Calm getting a silver although he is my favorite Zerg but better than Flash raping Shine/Movie right?
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On December 26 2009 09:40 Xiphos wrote:
How about guys, lets just hope that Calm and Movie wins their games so we can see a PvZ finals? I don't mind Calm getting a silver although he is my favorite Zerg but better than Flash raping Shine/Movie right?
I hope Flash wins OSL...
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the only thing I can fault jaedong with is not pulling his drones faster, he should of engaged before the bunker was so close to competition. I mean, I'd think as much. Either way I doubt he could of held off against a 7 rax when he 12 hatched, gg. Smart build by Flash.
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I just hope Movie wins against Shine.
It's OK if Movie loses against Flash, at least they will show good games.
I wonder how big of a shitstorm would there be if Calm wins and Shine wins and we have yet another ZvZ final...
Not that's gonna happen. Unless Flash gets disqualified (like slipping on ice and breaking his wrist?) somehow, I don't see that happening.
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United States20665 Posts
On December 25 2009 19:14 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 19:14 cz wrote:On December 25 2009 19:13 On_Slaught wrote:
Boxer is torn somewhere.
He loves that first game b/c it's a bunker rush beating a zerg.
He hates it because it's shit like this that makes casual fans leave the game. tbh I think boxer's most famous and exciting game is a bunker rush (v yellow in finals) It was semifinals.
the famous one is a bunker rush from a finals (king of kings? i think) where boxer lost 1-3
:o
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I can't believe people are even discussing Flash's bunker rush. He's the progamer with some of the best decision making and some of the best timings.
He just killed an overlord then found out that Jaedong went 12 hatch against a 7 rax and is very unlikely to cancel it. There is no way he is going to let Jaedong get away with it especially since 7 rax is designed to punish zergs who intend to go three hatch.
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On December 26 2009 09:06 writer22816 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 08:34 Lebesgue wrote:On December 26 2009 08:24 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
ok
why is flash's strategy that brilliant??
8proxyrax bunkerrush is nothing new it has being used for like 8 years
it is brilliant to use it on that map because you can kill zerg's overlord?
if you play tvz on that map 10 hours a day for a whole week it should not be THAT difficult to find out that a zerg player can not hide his overlord, come on
you can argue that jaedong chose the wrong opening but flash's strategy was no brilliant at all. it might have been executed perfectly, no doubt. but it is not like that was some genius move that nobody could have come up with It was 7 rax. If it is such an easy win and easy to come up strategy why no other Terran use it? Or wait, there is the honour codex that only Flash dares to break, right? Just to clear it up it is 8 rax because OGN unit counter only shows units that were built. You'd know this if you realized that after Jaedong's overlord completed and he built two drones, he was still at 9 supply, and he built his hatchery at 11 supply.
It was 7 rax. I am certain about it. At the time that Flash sent his scv cc was not flashing. It started flashing again only after he started building barracks.
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On December 26 2009 09:20 n.DieJokes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 08:23 Scaramanga wrote:
Just gotta say all those who are pissed off at flash for cheesing mabey you should be disapointed in your oh so precious jd as he fucked up pretty badly, he saw the rines and was way to over confident, so in short its jaedongs fault that we didnt get an epic series :D He put down two sunkens, he built lings immediately after. What on earth are you talking about, and why are you summarizing a point that took a single line to make. I'm honestly confused by every part of your post
Ok you know how they switched to jd's main and he had two drones left? thats because he decided not to cancel the hatch and thought he could hold off flash with his drones, that means that JD made a bad decision, hence its jaedongs fault for it being a terrible game
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On December 26 2009 10:28 Scaramanga wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 09:20 n.DieJokes wrote:On December 26 2009 08:23 Scaramanga wrote:
Just gotta say all those who are pissed off at flash for cheesing mabey you should be disapointed in your oh so precious jd as he fucked up pretty badly, he saw the rines and was way to over confident, so in short its jaedongs fault that we didnt get an epic series :D He put down two sunkens, he built lings immediately after. What on earth are you talking about, and why are you summarizing a point that took a single line to make. I'm honestly confused by every part of your post Ok you know how they switched to jd's main and he had two drones left? thats because he decided not to cancel the hatch and thought he could hold off flash with his drones, that means that JD made a bad decision, hence its jaedongs fault for it being a terrible game
Wait what? Cancelling the hatch is basically autolose. At least there was a chance Flash could have fucked up micro and failed the bunker rush.
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Stork losing made me want to wreck someone. Shine, preferably. ;_;
Goddamn zergs...
Starcraft sucks right now. Wake me when this dark age of zerg has passed. If it ever does.
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just confirming that it was indeed 7 rax. i thought flash would build his 8th scv before the rax but it looks like he cut the 8th.
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EPT
