On August 26 2009 20:39 Hinanawi wrote: I missed seeing PvT, it's probably my favorite matchup.
Can't wait to see Bisu vs Flash tomorrow. Gonna be siiiiiiick, my money's on Bisu just because Flash hasn't played against Protoss in like 20 games.
Yeah but remember the monster TvP that is Flash. The only game where I remember Flash playing perfectly and losing was vs Jangbi on Destination. And even there one mistake that was understandable gave Jangbi just enough chance to win.
I have a feeling that while Bisu and Fantasy helped each other practice TvP/PvT for their WCG matches that Stork and Flash were busy doing the same thing . Time for Flash to join his training partner in the next round :D
On August 26 2009 20:39 Hinanawi wrote: I missed seeing PvT, it's probably my favorite matchup.
Can't wait to see Bisu vs Flash tomorrow. Gonna be siiiiiiick, my money's on Bisu just because Flash hasn't played against Protoss in like 20 games.
Yeah but remember the monster TvP that is Flash. The only game where I remember Flash playing perfectly and losing was vs Jangbi on Destination. And even there one mistake that was understandable gave Jangbi just enough chance to win.
Flash is good at TvP, but Bisu's shown some good builds and play in the past to defeat Flash. Flash might be the best TvPer in the business, but Bisu's arguably the best at PvT. Anyways, looking forward to some good matches. I wanna see Bisu/Lux.
On August 26 2009 20:39 Hinanawi wrote: I missed seeing PvT, it's probably my favorite matchup.
Can't wait to see Bisu vs Flash tomorrow. Gonna be siiiiiiick, my money's on Bisu just because Flash hasn't played against Protoss in like 20 games.
Yeah but remember the monster TvP that is Flash. The only game where I remember Flash playing perfectly and losing was vs Jangbi on Destination. And even there one mistake that was understandable gave Jangbi just enough chance to win.
Oh I agree, Flash is a TvP monster, I won't be surprised if he wins tomorrow. But just because of the practice difference, I think Bisu has a slight edge. Bisu has been practicing against/playing against Terrans a lot lately, while Flash has been doing nothing but TvZ and TvT. He basically has about 40 hours (not including sleep) to refresh his TvP prowess (from when he beat Effort 24 hrs ago).
On August 26 2009 20:37 benjammin wrote: aren't there plenty of games where toss wins after losing the 12 nexus expo? not to take credit away, but i'm sure i remember seeing a few games like that
Stork vs Upmagic, it happened in the series. I didnt watch it, but it happened in 1 of the games
+ from recent memory
A lot of people make the false assumption that the protoss is behind when he gets bunker rushed after 12-14 Nex. When that's not always the case. Sometimes the protoss is behind, sometimes even, sometimes even ahead if too many SCVs were pulled.
Also, Stork's 12 Nex has faster goon timing than your typical 14 Nex. So he was in a pretty good condition.
On August 26 2009 20:42 zerotol wrote: Fantasy slumping or Stork playing great?
Fantasy starting to get figured out.
yup.... fantasys build is strong for his style (vulture harass) and it definitely overwhelmed many protosses... yet i definitely think stork studied fantasy quite well to figure out great counters.
I mean just watching these 2 games some may say build order win, dt imba, he had to macro to make up for poor micro, or protoss imba (pshh whatever... terran is most imba.. too many games vs zerg/toss where terran only camp to push and win) but all in all it just made it seem like stork was 1 step ahead and very calm throughout the games. From the 2 dragoons shutting down fantasys expo to having 2+ cannons at his minerals to stop vultures(something many protosses dont do enough against fantasy imo.. im sure coaches/players try to avoid defense structures but seriously with vultures being an integral part of fantasys style its almost a must in the mid game) to outmacroing knowing fantasys likes to do cute vulture micro to having a build order win with dt's simply showed that stork is a smarter player (at least in these games).
What I really liked about his 12nex in this series was that even as it was being destroyed he was building probes from it and running interference with his zealot to pull them out, wasn't panicked at all, just kept on rolling.
On August 26 2009 20:50 Roffles wrote: Flash is good at TvP, but Bisu's shown some good builds and play in the past to defeat Flash. Flash might be the best TvPer in the business, but Bisu's arguably the best at PvT. Anyways, looking forward to some good matches. I wanna see Bisu/Lux.
Stork and Jangbi are both notably better than Bisu at PvT, by about 7% (Best is slightly higher than Bisu too). Bisu has exceptional PvT but is not no.1
On August 26 2009 20:50 Roffles wrote: Flash is good at TvP, but Bisu's shown some good builds and play in the past to defeat Flash. Flash might be the best TvPer in the business, but Bisu's arguably the best at PvT. Anyways, looking forward to some good matches. I wanna see Bisu/Lux.
Stork and Jangbi are both notably better than Bisu at PvT, by about 7% (Best is slightly higher than Bisu too). Bisu has exceptional PvT but is not no.1
Jangbi's been sucking it up lately, even at PvT, same with Best. You can argue with overall stats, but I'll argue with recent stats and %s. Bisu's been raping it up PvT lately, with Stork slightly lagging behind.
Savior with 60%+ win rates overall doesn't mean he's raping now. Gotta look at the recent picture.
On August 26 2009 20:50 Roffles wrote: Flash is good at TvP, but Bisu's shown some good builds and play in the past to defeat Flash. Flash might be the best TvPer in the business, but Bisu's arguably the best at PvT. Anyways, looking forward to some good matches. I wanna see Bisu/Lux.
Stork and Jangbi are both notably better than Bisu at PvT, by about 7% (Best is slightly higher than Bisu too). Bisu has exceptional PvT but is not no.1
lol @ best better than bisu at PvT. Hey buddy, it's not all about the tlpd statistics.
On August 26 2009 20:50 Roffles wrote: Flash is good at TvP, but Bisu's shown some good builds and play in the past to defeat Flash. Flash might be the best TvPer in the business, but Bisu's arguably the best at PvT. Anyways, looking forward to some good matches. I wanna see Bisu/Lux.
Stork and Jangbi are both notably better than Bisu at PvT, by about 7% (Best is slightly higher than Bisu too). Bisu has exceptional PvT but is not no.1
I know ELO isn't perfect, but Bisu is currently slightly ahead of both Stork and Jangbi's TvP ELO at the moment. Bisu's PvT has become really scary, it's not like before where Stork/Jangbi were clearly far and ahead the best PvTers.
On August 26 2009 20:50 Roffles wrote: Flash is good at TvP, but Bisu's shown some good builds and play in the past to defeat Flash. Flash might be the best TvPer in the business, but Bisu's arguably the best at PvT. Anyways, looking forward to some good matches. I wanna see Bisu/Lux.
Stork and Jangbi are both notably better than Bisu at PvT, by about 7% (Best is slightly higher than Bisu too). Bisu has exceptional PvT but is not no.1
yeah. if he had confidence in his vT like Jangbi or Stork, there would be no OSL curse. LOL
new nickname for stork: the komodo dragon. thanks man, u made my day!
very nice games by stork, he completely outplayed fantasy. yes, it were build order losses, but the build orders stork was using were tailored specifically against fantasy´s play. so id still call it a strategical win.
i really love to see stork showing some good sc once again. maybe he will never fix his pvz, but his pvt and pvp still remain top notch. i really hope he retrieves his love and motivation for sc.
On August 26 2009 20:50 Roffles wrote: Flash is good at TvP, but Bisu's shown some good builds and play in the past to defeat Flash. Flash might be the best TvPer in the business, but Bisu's arguably the best at PvT. Anyways, looking forward to some good matches. I wanna see Bisu/Lux.
Stork and Jangbi are both notably better than Bisu at PvT, by about 7% (Best is slightly higher than Bisu too). Bisu has exceptional PvT but is not no.1
Jangbi's been sucking it up lately, even at PvT, same with Best. You can argue with overall stats, but I'll argue with recent stats and %s. Bisu's been raping it up PvT lately, with Stork slightly lagging behind.
Savior with 60%+ win rates overall doesn't mean he's raping now. Gotta look at the recent picture.
Sure, I guess I misunderstood what you said. I agree about jangbi and best, but stork and bisu's recent stats are similar. Stork hasnt played many PvTs recently though, so its hard to say...
Still, stork is the best PvT out of anyone in terms of career.
Stork and Jangbi are both notably better than Bisu at PvT, by about 7% (Best is slightly higher than Bisu too). Bisu has exceptional PvT but is not no.1
lol @ best better than bisu at PvT. Hey buddy, it's not all about the tlpd statistics.
I just said/meant best was ahead of Bisu in terms of stats, I didnt say he was better, which he obviously is not right now.
On August 26 2009 20:50 Roffles wrote: Flash is good at TvP, but Bisu's shown some good builds and play in the past to defeat Flash. Flash might be the best TvPer in the business, but Bisu's arguably the best at PvT. Anyways, looking forward to some good matches. I wanna see Bisu/Lux.
Stork and Jangbi are both notably better than Bisu at PvT, by about 7% (Best is slightly higher than Bisu too). Bisu has exceptional PvT but is not no.1
Jangbi's been sucking it up lately, even at PvT, same with Best. You can argue with overall stats, but I'll argue with recent stats and %s. Bisu's been raping it up PvT lately, with Stork slightly lagging behind.
Savior with 60%+ win rates overall doesn't mean he's raping now. Gotta look at the recent picture.
Sure, I guess I misunderstood what you said. I agree about jangbi and best, but stork and bisu's recent stats are similar. Stork hasnt played many PvTs recently though, so its hard to say...
Still, stork is the best PvT out of anyone in terms of career.
well, bisu has got great pvt, but pvt is still his weakest matchup. and he has a history of failing in starleagues against terrans. maybe this is why bisu´s pvt is rated lower than it actually is in terms of stats or without weighting results by their importance.
well, bisu vs flash tomorrow is gonna settle this debate anyway, so lets just wait one more day.
EPT
. Time for Flash to join his training partner in the next round :D
![[image loading]](http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/5223/84091969.jpg)
*rofltillidie*
